• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to David Bartell for "Critter Serioes #3" being selected as Turning of the Week for September 23, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

What's in a Lathe?

Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
122
Likes
41
Location
Aurora, CO
If that "uneven waviness" is what I think it might be, I'd suspect a sharper tool would solve a lot of your frustration. I know, I know.....the subject of what is and isn't sharp is a very touchy subject to a lot of turners....even to those who have years of turning experience under their belt.

Most turners use an edge created from their slow-speed grinder and go directly from there to the lathe. Some will swear they have sharp tools, and even use words like "scary sharp" to describe their cutting edges.....but, I have my suspicions.

For myself, the grinder is nothing more than a tool that speeds up removing metal up to the edge, but does not create the cutting edge itself. My gouge cutting edges are all hand honed.....the modern diamond hones are the best at this task......but, even the old Arkansas honing stones will do just as well. My finest scraper burs are created with diamond hones on the top edge and then manually raised on a carbide post. (For general rough work, the scraper burs created on the grinder will suffice for that purpose.)

-o-

Added content: If you want the sharpest edges possible.....then be prepared to sharpen much more often than you ever thought you would, or should. It is these fine edges, when maintained, can and do produce the finest surface quality. When you reach that level of cutting edge maintenance, then you will make it possible to create surfaces direct from the tool that require a bare minimum of sanding.

I actually do sharpen a lot. Constantly. Especially when turning bowls, I sharpen many times for both the inside and the outside (unless its a small bowl, I guess.)

I have not, however, used a hone to fine tune the edge. I have CBN wheels, 350 and 600, and will use the 350 if I need to really re-grind the shape, and the 600 to get a finer edge. I don't know how the 600 grit CBN compares to a diamond hone though... I think I did try to hone in the past, but, my concern always was losing the angle of the edge vs. the bevel. I don't think I ever found anyone demonstrating how to properly hone a gouge back then, and just stuck with the grinding wheels. If there is a technique to properly honing a gouge, though, that wont' muck it all up, I'll happily give it a try.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
122
Likes
41
Location
Aurora, CO
I am still aspiring to starting at 180. :)

I used to start at 180... But I found that was leaving scratch marks in my bowls, vases, etc. once I sanded up to 320 or 400. Even after more extensive sanding with 220 and 320, there were often scratches left by the 180 that I just couldn't get rid of, without going back to 180. I am not a hard sander, either, I use a pretty soft touch, and learned to sand at a speed slow enough that the sandpaper "grips" and then to let the grit do the work, and not use pressure (unless there was some serious tearout or something.) Starting at 220, I no longer have that issue. If I am lucky enough to get a pretty well-tooled surface (and I've learned a lot of techniques for that now...such as sheer scraping, using a negative rake scraper designed for the kind of grain and inside vs. outside, etc.) then I may even start at 320.

I haven't touched a piece of 60, 80, or 120 grit since early 2021 (I started turning the beginning of 2020). Late last year, I got back into turning things other than pens (which was all I really did from mid 2021 through mid 2023), and have hardly touched even 180 grit. I DO use it, when I end up with tearout that other grits just don't seem to correct, and then, only if I cannot first use a tool to correct the tearout (some woods, like this cottonwood I'm working with now, just...seem to tear out so easily, and even with careful tooling, sometimes the only way to completely get rid of the remnant is sanding... :'( ).

I think the keys that got me to this point, were learning how to properly sheer scrape (something I think I only learned properly after watching a Jimmy Clewes video on turning a platter). Proper sheer scraping required re-sharpening the tools so it was extremely sharp, keeping it that sharp until you were done with your sheer scraping, and also keeping the angle of the cutting edge VERY high, so that there was really only a glancing of the surface to peel off these super fine shavings. That has honestly been one of the best tools for me, to produce a super clean tooled surface, that doesn't need too much sanding. It is not as good, I don't think, as tooling well enough with a proper finishing cut using the gouge normally...but, I can't seem to figure that out, so I'm still not able to get those "perfect" geometries...at least, I don't know how with a sheer cut. Sometiems I can still faintly feel peaks and valleys, and if I try to fully correct them with a sheer cut, then I am often bound to create other issues. But anyway, its a good way to clean up your wood surface so that you don't have to start at say 60 grit!
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
440
Likes
439
Location
Dallas, TX
I bought my Oneway 2424 in mid-2004. Can't comment on the others but can say the following:
  • Oneway is designed by Oneway and built by Oneway in ON
  • When I've had a question, I call Oneway - I'm then transferred to an engineer or to Kevin Clay, president / owner
  • I've turned several 400-lb+ logs - never gave a thought about an equipment problem. A slipping banjo or toolrest or tail-stock can be a "problem"
  • The attached pic is Planet Mesquite - 1200-lbs when it was mounted
  • I used the standard 10-yo live-center it came with - never an issue
  • Called Kevin asking if I could run a 1200-lb, grossly out of balance log at low RPM
  • He also did the drawings and fabricated the outboard ways and the risers for the 17" extension
  • His answer "yes" but I should NOT help the motor start the load - it will start and it did.
  • I asked about the spindle and got a lesson in metallurgy - never had to worry about spindle, quill or any other components
  • I was worried about the 3-hp motor heating at under 100-rpm for hours on end - never an issue - I think it's a Leeson
  • Every wonder why several on this forum, when replacing or buying a second banjo, go with Oneway?
  • In 20-years of doing large hollow-forms, I've not changed a bearing or even a belt
The higher price amortized over a bunch of years was a non-issue. Using great equipment when "re-creating myself" is well worth the difference.
 

Attachments

  • Y16-0905 Day-1-2a.JPG
    Y16-0905 Day-1-2a.JPG
    46.2 KB · Views: 23
Joined
Sep 19, 2023
Messages
710
Likes
1,348
Location
Columbia, TN
I used to start at 180... But I found that was leaving scratch marks in my bowls, vases, etc. once I sanded up to 320 or 400. Even after more extensive sanding with 220 and 320, there were often scratches left by the 180 that I just couldn't get rid of, without going back to 180. I am not a hard sander, either, I use a pretty soft touch, and learned to sand at a speed slow enough that the sandpaper "grips" and then to let the grit do the work, and not use pressure (unless there was some serious tearout or something.) Starting at 220, I no longer have that issue. If I am lucky enough to get a pretty well-tooled surface (and I've learned a lot of techniques for that now...such as sheer scraping, using a negative rake scraper designed for the kind of grain and inside vs. outside, etc.) then I may even start at 320.

I haven't touched a piece of 60, 80, or 120 grit since early 2021 (I started turning the beginning of 2020). Late last year, I got back into turning things other than pens (which was all I really did from mid 2021 through mid 2023), and have hardly touched even 180 grit. I DO use it, when I end up with tearout that other grits just don't seem to correct, and then, only if I cannot first use a tool to correct the tearout (some woods, like this cottonwood I'm working with now, just...seem to tear out so easily, and even with careful tooling, sometimes the only way to completely get rid of the remnant is sanding... :'( ).

I think the keys that got me to this point, were learning how to properly sheer scrape (something I think I only learned properly after watching a Jimmy Clewes video on turning a platter). Proper sheer scraping required re-sharpening the tools so it was extremely sharp, keeping it that sharp until you were done with your sheer scraping, and also keeping the angle of the cutting edge VERY high, so that there was really only a glancing of the surface to peel off these super fine shavings. That has honestly been one of the best tools for me, to produce a super clean tooled surface, that doesn't need too much sanding. It is not as good, I don't think, as tooling well enough with a proper finishing cut using the gouge normally...but, I can't seem to figure that out, so I'm still not able to get those "perfect" geometries...at least, I don't know how with a sheer cut. Sometiems I can still faintly feel peaks and valleys, and if I try to fully correct them with a sheer cut, then I am often bound to create other issues. But anyway, its a good way to clean up your wood surface so that you don't have to start at say 60 grit!

Thanks for the perspective, Jon. On the bigger pieces, do you use an angle drill or a RO sander? I use both. The angle drill leaves pretty bad scratches vs. the ROS. I get the tough stuff with the drill, and then switch to the ROS for all the finish sanding.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,650
Likes
2,998
Location
Eugene, OR
The best quote for bevel use was from some unknown skew master, "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it." Too much bevel pressure and just the right amount of bevel pressure are huge concepts to getting the cleanest cuts. The finish cuts always need to be VERY FINE!

robo hippy
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
122
Likes
41
Location
Aurora, CO
Thanks for the perspective, Jon. On the bigger pieces, do you use an angle drill or a RO sander? I use both. The angle drill leaves pretty bad scratches vs. the ROS. I get the tough stuff with the drill, and then switch to the ROS for all the finish sanding.
I've tried powered sanding. I am not real sure what I think of it yet. I have both powered and inertial sanders for discs, and I've had similar problems with scratches...but, I think that depends on the wood, too. Softer woods are a lot harder to deal with regardless, I think? I am working with some live edge aspen blanks right now, and even hand sanding, I'm getting some scratch marks in the tighter corners that I am having a heck of a time getting rid of.

I mostly hand sand, and if I've done a good enough job with the tools, then the hand sanding goes pretty smoothly. The key issue is tearout...even small amounts that you may not initially see, will show up quite well once you start sanding. I've learned the key is, eliminate the tearout first, before moving to higher grits. If I move to higher grits before the tearout is entirely eliminated, then I inevitably end up back at the lower grit (usually 220 for me) anyway, and have to work through them all again once I finally manage to eliminate the tearout.

For tearout I DO sand with the lathe on, and that does produce radial scratches. However, trying to clean up tearout without power seems to be a futile endeavor...at least in my limited experience anyway. I think that a powered sander might help here, however I have yet to find a sanding disc I truly love. I normally use Norton brand sandpapers, which have a grit that just seems to do the job superbly well. I've never found a sanding disc, even abranet, that seems to do as good a job. So I guess that's probably one of the reasons I mostly hand sand. Once tearout is eliminated, then I can fairly quickly move through all the grits to achieve the finish I want. Once I start moving through grits, I'll alternate...lathe on, low speed, then hand sanded with the next grit to eliminate the scratches. On some woods, if they need it, I'll just manually hand sand through all the grits. I will usually sand up to 320/400 if I intend to use a penetrating finish, or maybe higher like 600 to even 1200 if I intend to use a film finish.

FWIW, I do think its best to try and eliminate tearout as much as you can with the tools first. Finishing cuts, sheer scraping (with a VERY sheer angle), a good french curve negative rake scraper for the inside of bowls, etc. are all better ways to deal with tearout. Sometimes you can really get it all, sometimes you don't see everything until you start sanding (I don't know why, sometimes the surface looks fine, but once you sand, I guess maybe the fibers shred and you can see tearout better?) If you see tearout once you start sanding, its still better to go back to the tools to try and remove it first, and use coarser (i.e. for me that's usually 220 grit) sanding to try and remove it before fully sanding.

For any tools, if you are going to try and clean up the wood surface, its best to sharpen right before you do, even for finishing cuts. A good, sharp tool will give you a cleaner cut than a not freshly sharpened tool, and sharp is key when trying to cut out torn out wood fibers. My weak spot is finishing cuts...I always seem to add ridges or valleys when I try to do finishing cuts...I can never quite seem to get that light, single-sweep, perfect cut that I see other turners using. So I usually end up resorting to a NR scraper or sheer scraping, which will usually do the job, just not as well.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
140
Likes
12
Location
East TN
Sorry, just back here after a long absence and I wasn't able to read all the posts yet but I saw a some about choosing a lathe.

As for lathe size, I think a lot depends on what you want to turn. I have turned some big bowls and things, but although technically not difficult, they don't interest me that much.

I prefer to turn small things including spindles. The swing of the lathe doesn't matter as much, but the sturdiness, precision, and length of the bed are important to me. I currently have 4 lathes and the PM 3520b is my favorite. I have a bed extension on it for a little extra length. The build, materials, and precision are excellent. I also have a couple of Jet 1642 lathes, which makes teaching more than one students at once a lot easier, and a Jet Mini for the portability. The 1642s are fine (used one as my primary lathe for years) but the PM is superior, even for ornaments and tiny miniatures.

Another thing to evaluate is the benefit from an expensive lathe. Again, a lot depends on what you want to turn. A good used lathe might save a LOT of money that can be used for tools. And a good dust collector. I bought three of my lathes used. I pulled a trailer well over 1000 miles to pick up the PM.

This is where I spend the most quality time:

lathe_PM_Jan17_IMG_5751.jpg

My little turning nook. Sharpening is across the room, bandsaw in the middle.

WV_boys_IMG_20170319_154641_356.jpg
JKJ
 
Back
Top