You make a good point.
I don’t turn many bowls as it’s not something I like. The cost of materials was an issue before as well, before I joined a club.
I have a Midi Lathe but it can swing a 14” bowl blank - just.
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What's in a Lathe?
- Thread starter Kent Reisdorph
- Start date
I don’t turn many bowls as it’s not something I like. The cost of materials was an issue before as well, before I joined a club.
I have a Midi Lathe but it can swing a 14” bowl blank - just.
Just one guy’s experience:
I started with a delta 46-460 (still have it - works great). Got an early powermatic 90 from the 1950’s for a few bucks at a garage sale and rebuilt it… worked great but I grew tired of the reeves drive and the gap bed…. Sold it…
My current lathe is a powermatic 3520b (purchased new) and it has been bulletproof for 14 years. I turn more than 200 bowls per year ranging from little boxes to as big as will fit on the lathe. Some blanks weighing close to if not more than 100lbs…
I have absolutely abused this machine but it runs as smooth as it ever has. Everything slides smooth, the digital readout never fails, forward/reverse from 30rpm-2500rpm it just goes and goes.
I’ve waxed the cast iron bed maybe twice…. Now I just shoot it with wd-40 and go on my way. Not a speck of rust anywhere
I’ve never called for service or replaced a single part. Ever.
Eventually I’m sure I’ll break it somehow, but it has paid for itself 20x over. I’m not a fanboy - when the time comes I’ll look at all the offerings - but I doubt anything I buy in the future will be as good as this machine.
I started with a delta 46-460 (still have it - works great). Got an early powermatic 90 from the 1950’s for a few bucks at a garage sale and rebuilt it… worked great but I grew tired of the reeves drive and the gap bed…. Sold it…
My current lathe is a powermatic 3520b (purchased new) and it has been bulletproof for 14 years. I turn more than 200 bowls per year ranging from little boxes to as big as will fit on the lathe. Some blanks weighing close to if not more than 100lbs…
I have absolutely abused this machine but it runs as smooth as it ever has. Everything slides smooth, the digital readout never fails, forward/reverse from 30rpm-2500rpm it just goes and goes.
I’ve waxed the cast iron bed maybe twice…. Now I just shoot it with wd-40 and go on my way. Not a speck of rust anywhere
I’ve never called for service or replaced a single part. Ever.
Eventually I’m sure I’ll break it somehow, but it has paid for itself 20x over. I’m not a fanboy - when the time comes I’ll look at all the offerings - but I doubt anything I buy in the future will be as good as this machine.
I view lathes, and my other hobby equipment (motorcycles, flat ww, fly fishing), from the perspective of process and results, and value - does it help with the process I do, and/or does it produce better results and is it worth the $ vs something else. I do not consider pride of ownership or showing I can afford xyz. A popular saying is “buy once cry once”, eluding that you get what you pay for. I have a few top end tools - I cry every time I see or use them, knowing it was a very poor value decision for me, ie I lit $ on fire.
An important perspective is turning size - if one does large pieces one must have a large lathe. If one self imposes size limits, a smaller lathe works fine. A bigger lather is not necessarily better in some situations, such as limited floor space.
I started turning on what most would consider a trash lathe, the large HF lather 12x36 I think. Paid $180 ~12 yrs ago. I consider that lathe at that price a tremendous value, and not trash. I learned so much about what I did and did not want in a next lathe, based on what I could and could not do well with it and why. For that $, even if I through it in the trash the education was invaluable.
I got a Nova Galaxi 16x44 next, and will likely be my final lathe. The only thing the lathe doesn’t do as well as I like is large turnings that don’t fit between centers. Not a huge issue as I rarely turn over 15” dia, and I can mount on a faceplate and turn outboard up to 29”. Vibration, either when making a cut or from an unbalanced piece, is not a big issue. Those that want to turn high unbalanced pieces, ie large multi axis stuff, likely need more mass, either a heavier lathe or weight/mounting.
My point is a powermatic, oneway, or robust do nothing better for me vs what I have, and they dont have the outboard capability of what I do have within the floor space I have. I have the best solution for me and my situation. At the end of the day, that’s the goal.
You actually can place a key on the Robust. A nice flat area is on top of the headstock.
Here is my honest, unbiased opinion 
I first started out on a Laguna 12|16. It was not a bad lathe, it was smooth, heavy enough and had great speed control AT FIRST. Then it began to have problems, electrical and of course customer service, so I quickly upgraded.
Next was the Jet 1226. It was a great lathe and to be honest if I wasn't as serious of a turner as I am, let's say weekend hobby or mainly for gifts, it would work really well for most people. It is reliable, sturdy and has very nice speed controls. Most all of my learning at the OVWG was on a 1226. Overall it never broke down and I never had an issue.
Next up was the Powermatic 2014. I would say this lathe was close to the junk category. I had nothing but problems and customer service was not good at all. I have spoken about this lathe in previous threads. The 3-4K price difference for the 3520C is not enough to justify the lower quality and poor service.
Lastly I upgraded to the Robust Sweet 16. This lathe is very well built, and for me, just me made in the USA was extremely important. Customer service is top notch as well. The extra 3-4K was totally worth it ,from the warranty, to the service, to the quality.
Here are my thoughts on choosing a lathe......
Beginner lathes----Jet 1226, or the CS new midi lathe.
Intermediate lathes-----Robust Scout, Laguna 18|32 or one of the larger Jet lathes.
Advanced lathes------Robust Sweet 16, American Beauty, or the Vicmarc and Oneway
Near junk lathes-----Powermatic 2014, Rikon and Harbor Freight
I first started out on a Laguna 12|16. It was not a bad lathe, it was smooth, heavy enough and had great speed control AT FIRST. Then it began to have problems, electrical and of course customer service, so I quickly upgraded.
Next was the Jet 1226. It was a great lathe and to be honest if I wasn't as serious of a turner as I am, let's say weekend hobby or mainly for gifts, it would work really well for most people. It is reliable, sturdy and has very nice speed controls. Most all of my learning at the OVWG was on a 1226. Overall it never broke down and I never had an issue.
Next up was the Powermatic 2014. I would say this lathe was close to the junk category. I had nothing but problems and customer service was not good at all. I have spoken about this lathe in previous threads. The 3-4K price difference for the 3520C is not enough to justify the lower quality and poor service.
Lastly I upgraded to the Robust Sweet 16. This lathe is very well built, and for me, just me made in the USA was extremely important. Customer service is top notch as well. The extra 3-4K was totally worth it ,from the warranty, to the service, to the quality.
Here are my thoughts on choosing a lathe......
Beginner lathes----Jet 1226, or the CS new midi lathe.
Intermediate lathes-----Robust Scout, Laguna 18|32 or one of the larger Jet lathes.
Advanced lathes------Robust Sweet 16, American Beauty, or the Vicmarc and Oneway
Near junk lathes-----Powermatic 2014, Rikon and Harbor Freight
Last edited:
I disagree. The better the lathe, the more you can focus on the turning, not the machine. Try out a Robust, you will feel the difference
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I’m impressed with how well the novas handle out of balanced work. While the novas are lightweight the massive head stock seems to reduce the vibration well. The Novas are fine lathes for what they do and the newer ones have decent controls.
I do have a thought that the ONEWAY 2416 and the standard bed Robust American Beauty both offer a turning capacity larger than 29” in what would be a similar or smaller footprint to your Nova.
The AB might be the smallest footprint of the 3.
This is sort of an interesting thread as to advertised capacity, but I was really hoping for something more meaty. I do know that the Powermatic 3520 was made from ASTM class 34 or better from a Meehanite certified foundry. What the lathe is made of can make a big difference in durability. The mechanical details can also make a significant difference. All I have to offer is the below photo of the spindle from a Powermatic 3520 (bottom) and a Oneway 2436 (Top). If there is no difference to the buyer, then get the cheaper one, for sure. There are lots of people that are perfectly satisfied with a $4.00 hammer.
I trust that you found my previous posting about it:
New Haven Patternmaker's Lathe
I've been asked to tell a bit about my larger wood lathe. It's a patternmakers lathe made by New Haven Mfg. I've only seen one other similar machine. Capacity is 30" swing over the ways and about 85" between centers. It was originally a flat-belt driven machine, and was very rough before I...
‘Not likely many were ever made, and mine is highly modified. It’s about a 2000 pound machine, and rock-solid.
See the embedded link to OWWM site for more details.
Tim
I am always impressed with that thread.
Explain to this ignoramus what I’m looking at or should be looking for. Thanks.
I've been through a few lathes since I started, and also used a couple others at the local woodcraft a good bit.
First, I would agree, 18-20" would be classified as a full-sized lathe.
I started with a Nova midi sized lathe. It was the Comet 14DR a 14x20" IIRC, in Feb 2020. It worked ok for about 5 months, then started to have problems. Teknatool in Florida sent out a replacement control box, which didn't fix the problem. Then they sent out THREE MORE after that, insisting the problem was in the control box and not elsewhere. In late September I finally managed to get them to RMA the thing, and they had it until the end of January the next year. In the end, they ended up rebuilding most of it, and the problem was in the motor and headstock...if I recall correctly here. Took another month to get the thing back, and it had a LOUD scraping sound in the headstock. I haven't really used it since. I've used some other Nova lathes, including that was more of a full sized 18" lathe, the "DVR" type. I would say, the DVR line of Nova lathes are pretty nice and I do like the DIRECT DRIVE concept, but in general I don't care too much for Nova. In all honesty, I don't think I can exactly put my finger on what it is about them, but, they just don't quite seem to measure up when I compare to Jet & Powermatic (or say Robust).
I've used one Rikon midi sized lathe. It seemed a bit more solidly built than the Nova Comet 14DR, and seemed a bit quieter. Quiet is a big factor for me, and not all lathes are equal here! Can't say a lot about Rikon, the only tools of theirs that I own are my grinder, which I slapped some CBN wheels on and I think it does a fine job, and my belt sander, which was a NOISY beast until I discovered that there was an access panel on the back (way over-tightened at the factory, hence it took me a while to realize it WAS supposed to be accessible) and was able to tighten the drive belt. Since then its become quieter, but, I would put it in generally the same class as Nova. Ok, not great, could be better. Good way to start, but if you are really going to put some heavy use onto a machine, I think there are better options.
While I was waiting for Teknatool to fix my original Nova lathe, late in 2020 I purchased a Wen 14x20" midi lathe. To my surprise, this little lathe, which I still own and still use, has been an amazingly sturdy, generally well crafted workhorse lathe. I do most of my pens on this lathe, I do most of my other small turnings on this lathe, and it has helped me make a LOT of items over the years. I've had it since, IIRC, November 2020. Its actually my most used lathe overall. Wen customer support is the easiest to work with by far, and they never make it troublesome if I need a part or anything like that (Due to an incorrect manufacturing spec with the MT2 mandrel for the Beall 3-wheel buffing system, which was NOT actually manufactured to the correct MT2 specced angle, it damaged the inside of my Wen lathe spindle. Lee Valley, who bought the rights to this product when Beall closed their doors, graciously listened to my explanation of the problem and fixed it, and sent me some money to compensate for the damaged part.) I did have to buy the replacement spindle as it was out of warranty, but in general I've never had any problems working with Wen technical support (which is in stark contrast to Teknatool, where I can't even begin to describe the strange, often wildly strange, experiences I've had with their tech support.) I would NOT put Wen in a high grade class like Robust or OneWay. They are generally the same quality as Nova, Rikon, etc. I know that people have certainly had issues with them as well, and there is plenty of commentary about QC variability. So my experiences may just be luck of the draw. As you mentioned as well, a midi lathe only takes you so far!
During the many months of time I was waiting for my Nova lathe to be repaired and returned, I wanted to get into turning larger items. A 14" lathe can only handle wood pieces so large, so I ended up purchasing a Laguna Revo 1524 with Precise Point. I was really excited about getting a larger-sized lathe, and the Revo, out of all the lathes I have used, is very, very quiet!! I LOVED how quiet it was. I think its one of the quietest lathes around. I honestly don't know if the 1524 can be called a full-sized lathe...its certainly not as big as my main lathe that I have now (more in a bit) nor anywhere as big as a Robust or OneWay full sized lathe. But its definitely bigger than a normal midi sized lathe. I turned a few vases, medium sized (I'd say up to about 8" spindle size), on the Laguna, along with a few platters up to 14" in diameter, among other smaller bowls (6-8"). Sadly, my experiences with Laguna ended up not being so great. This lathe, too, to my great dismay, experienced some problems. The initial problem I ran into was the tailstock design...Laguna's Precise Point, IMHO, is a disaster. There is only about a 1" thick block of metal attached to the end of the tailstock that actually holds the quill in the tailstock...that's it. The rest of the tailstock is a square shaped hollow on the inside, which is required to allow the "precise pointing" capability (you can loosen this block of metal, and move it around a little bit to adjust the pointing of the quill to your dead center in the headstock), and then a loosely fit worm that attaches to the crank to drive the quill in and out. The first problem I ran into, which I first noticed pretty early on, but didn't really realize what was causing it until early summer, was that the quill, particularly when extended about half way or more (which was often necessary with platters due to the thick banjo), was too poorly supported and wobbled around. It did NOT provide truly stable support and would, unless I spent too much time trying to manually center the live center, "orbit" around the true dead center of rotation and cause problems turning. The orbit could be as much as several millimeters off center, which is quite significant. I started working with Laguna to fix this, which in the end only included them sending me a thin (maybe 1mm thick) metal clip that had a prong on it, that was bolted to the ~1" thick block of metal that was all that held the quill stable. This clip was supposed to be pushed into the groove on the side of the quill, and the little prong was supposedly capable of stabilizing it (it was not!) I struggled a lot with the lathe throughout the summer, and had little success (the issue seemed to get worse over time, I suspect as I used it, the small block of metal that actually held the quill probably faced some wear and the bore in it probably enlarged a bit.) By fall 2021, the lathe suddenly exhibited a problem where it could no longer maintain power under load. I'd hardly been using it, due to the tailstock problems. Spindle only and it would spin roughly at the right RPM, but there were dropouts and dips. Even a small load, though, such as putting on my longworth chuck, resulted in severe and repetitive RPM (and thus power) dropouts. The lathe couldn't handle turning at all, once a tool was applied to a wood blank the lathe couldn't handle it. Several months later, after having replaced the entire tailstock once, the motor once, and then ultimately the entire headstock, the lathe was working again by January 2022... However the tailstock issues persisted...and Laguna ghosted me. I received no further support from them, no communications of any kind. I finally gave up on the lathe and eventually sold it, as the tailstock/quill issue was a consistent problem, particularly with platters and vases, both if which at least in my experience need pretty stable support from the tailstock when doing the primary shaping.
PART 2 ->
The Laguna experience, in all honesty, was actually not 100% unexpected. I generally do my research, and I researched the Laguna a lot (along with Jet and Powermatic, and of course Robust...but that one was well outside of my price range!) I remember reading forum threads about people complaining about Laguna's QC, which was hit or miss, and even sometimes their design work, which was also hit or miss some times. Everyone has different experiences, and this is very true of Laguna machines...across the board. Lathes, bandsaws, table saws, etc....you can find a pretty wide array of stories spanning the spectrum of experiences...some great, some good, some bad, some horrible. For me, the problem in the end ended up being that their tech support ghosted me, even though I was still having problems with the tailstock, problems that were preventing me from turning the things I needed to turn. That was a real turnoff, and when you can't get support for your machines, its really a problem. Again...there are many people out there who have warned that about the company and its tactics. IMHO, I probably should have heeded the warnings better. The thing that clinched it in the end, was the general size of the lathe and its price point...it was half or less that of a higher end full size lathe, and the size of the 1524 was big enough to turn some decently sized items that I couldn't turn on a midi. My strong opinion is, Precise Point is a good idea conceptually, but poorly implemented resulting in problematic implementation and function. Further, I must have been one of the unlucky who ran into QC issues, with the headstock. There was another factor with using the Laguna that ultimately lead me to sell it (something I mentioned to the buyer): The nature of the PWM that drives the Laguna, leads to a....disconcerting "revving" in the speed and power behind any blank you are turning. Every time the load on the lathe changes, there is a short bit of time where the lathe adjusts its power, and since PWMs operate at discrete power levels, you feel this in the tool if its in contact with the blank. This wasn't as big of an issue with smaller vases or bowls a lot of the time, but it became a much bigger issue with platters, larger vases, etc. The sudden changes in power, although not large, always gave me a bit of a start, and I could never quite find my "footing" with the lathe. This was another driving factor in selling it.
In any case, since I was never able to get the tailstock issue resolved to my satisfaction and could never quite get used to the nature of the PWM drive, I ended up selling the Laguna. What primarily spurred that on, was coming across a Powermatic 3520C sale for around $4600, and I just couldn't pass that up. One of the big selling points for me with Powermatic, a brand I'd been interested in for some time, was the sheer number of people on YT videos (one of my primary learning sources over the years) is very high. LOT of people use a Powermatic lathe, especially many of the more well known turners (using either Powermatic, Vicmark or Robust it seems.) My current primary lathe is indeed a Powermatic 3520C, and I've been using it since February 2022 (actually bought it before selling the Laguna). So far, its been the best lathe I've ever used. You asked to keep emotions out of it, and from a purely objective standpoint, that statement holds true! It really is the best lathe I've ever used. Emotionally, though...the thing is a beauty, all black (anniversary color), gold and shiny chromed steel handles and cranks. Its a rock-solid beast of a lathe, very heavy and stable, and therefor quite capable of handling the wobbling torque of a large and unevenly balanced chunk of wood (something I needed). And it has NONE of the issues I've faced with other lathes. I mentioned the power problem with the Laguna due to its PWM. The Powermatic uses a VFD to drive the motor, and while a PWM is involved, the output power curve is much more natural, like an AC sine curve. The feel of the lathe when turning, the way power changes in a very natural way, has been a very welcome change over the Laguna PWM drive. Its tough to explain, but I think the best way to describe it is the Powermatic acts naturally with a sine wave, so the changes are smooth; the Laguna reacts more "digitally" and in discrete steps, and there are sudden changes in power. The suddenness of the changes is what can get disconcerting, and I honestly never quite felt safe when I felt the power change like that under the tool when turning bigger items. Anyway, the Powermatic has been problem free. The tailstock design is excellent, and the quill has the full support of a tight tolerance hole bored strait through solid metal, and that support is clearly evident in the rock solid stability of the quill even at full extension. The levers and all other mechanisms are just levels above any other lathe I've used thus far. Instead of just a single pressure point, as far as I can tell Powermatic uses more of a compression ring approach, so pressure is applied evenly around shafts. The control panel is actually detachable, with a magnetic back, so it can be moved around the lathe, magnetized wherever you need it so its right there wherever your actually turning. There are lots of little details like that with the overall design and functionality of the lathe, that I think sets lathes of this caliber apart from the rest. Its generally quiet, although at higher RPM the motor moves a fair amount of air and its a little louder. When turning anything over about 800rpm, the noise is a little annoying, but its really the only complaint I have. Overall, I honestly couldn't hope for a lathe that was better built...even if there is one (maybe Robust or Vicmarc?) Powermatic has done an exceptional job making an eminently versatile lathe with this one. I don't think you could go wrong with a Powermatic lathe. Even if its not "the best" it is definitely very good.
Due to my experience with the Powermatic lathe, as I've expanded my shop, the vast majority of my machines now are Jet. Jet and Powermatic are both owned by JPW Industries. Both are of good quality, robust, reliable machines that perform their jobs well. Since moving to Powermatic and Jet, I have stopped having issues with my machines, and I really like it that way. One key difference between the two...Jet machines are simpler, lack much in the way of fancy features, but are good workhorses. Powermatic machines often have a bit more "bling" and fancy features, or fancy technology like their new non-stick surfaces for bandsaws, table saws, planers, jointers, etc. If you need the features, Powermatic seems to deliver. If you just need the basic machine, Jet is just fine and will save you some money. I have a Jet air filter, bandsaw, drill press and miter saw now. Love all of them, never have issues with any of them, and they serve my needs well. With Jet and Powermatic, I'm able to focus on my work, rather than on dealing with machine problems. That's what I need, that's how I like it, and that's a powerful factor in getting repeat business from me. Again, as mentioned above with the Laguna experience...everyone has different experiences, and some people have run into some problems with Powermatic. Some people LOVE their Nova lathes (although, as far as I can tell, that's almost exclusively the DVR line). I have found in my own travels, however, and in my own research, that people seldom seem to complain about Powermatic. Powermatic is one of the most commonly used lathes by people on YT. That seems to be in line with Robust, OneWay and also Vicmarc...and IMHO would qualify Powermatic as a manufacture of similar caliber and quality. I couldn't tell you that a Laguna lathe would be problem free...in fact, I'd say its really hit or miss and probability is ~50% you run into some kind of problem with any of their machines. With Powermatic and Jet, on the other hand, I think that the risk of running into issues is much lower, and I think that the legacy is indeed justified.
In any case, since I was never able to get the tailstock issue resolved to my satisfaction and could never quite get used to the nature of the PWM drive, I ended up selling the Laguna. What primarily spurred that on, was coming across a Powermatic 3520C sale for around $4600, and I just couldn't pass that up. One of the big selling points for me with Powermatic, a brand I'd been interested in for some time, was the sheer number of people on YT videos (one of my primary learning sources over the years) is very high. LOT of people use a Powermatic lathe, especially many of the more well known turners (using either Powermatic, Vicmark or Robust it seems.) My current primary lathe is indeed a Powermatic 3520C, and I've been using it since February 2022 (actually bought it before selling the Laguna). So far, its been the best lathe I've ever used. You asked to keep emotions out of it, and from a purely objective standpoint, that statement holds true! It really is the best lathe I've ever used. Emotionally, though...the thing is a beauty, all black (anniversary color), gold and shiny chromed steel handles and cranks. Its a rock-solid beast of a lathe, very heavy and stable, and therefor quite capable of handling the wobbling torque of a large and unevenly balanced chunk of wood (something I needed). And it has NONE of the issues I've faced with other lathes. I mentioned the power problem with the Laguna due to its PWM. The Powermatic uses a VFD to drive the motor, and while a PWM is involved, the output power curve is much more natural, like an AC sine curve. The feel of the lathe when turning, the way power changes in a very natural way, has been a very welcome change over the Laguna PWM drive. Its tough to explain, but I think the best way to describe it is the Powermatic acts naturally with a sine wave, so the changes are smooth; the Laguna reacts more "digitally" and in discrete steps, and there are sudden changes in power. The suddenness of the changes is what can get disconcerting, and I honestly never quite felt safe when I felt the power change like that under the tool when turning bigger items. Anyway, the Powermatic has been problem free. The tailstock design is excellent, and the quill has the full support of a tight tolerance hole bored strait through solid metal, and that support is clearly evident in the rock solid stability of the quill even at full extension. The levers and all other mechanisms are just levels above any other lathe I've used thus far. Instead of just a single pressure point, as far as I can tell Powermatic uses more of a compression ring approach, so pressure is applied evenly around shafts. The control panel is actually detachable, with a magnetic back, so it can be moved around the lathe, magnetized wherever you need it so its right there wherever your actually turning. There are lots of little details like that with the overall design and functionality of the lathe, that I think sets lathes of this caliber apart from the rest. Its generally quiet, although at higher RPM the motor moves a fair amount of air and its a little louder. When turning anything over about 800rpm, the noise is a little annoying, but its really the only complaint I have. Overall, I honestly couldn't hope for a lathe that was better built...even if there is one (maybe Robust or Vicmarc?) Powermatic has done an exceptional job making an eminently versatile lathe with this one. I don't think you could go wrong with a Powermatic lathe. Even if its not "the best" it is definitely very good.
Due to my experience with the Powermatic lathe, as I've expanded my shop, the vast majority of my machines now are Jet. Jet and Powermatic are both owned by JPW Industries. Both are of good quality, robust, reliable machines that perform their jobs well. Since moving to Powermatic and Jet, I have stopped having issues with my machines, and I really like it that way. One key difference between the two...Jet machines are simpler, lack much in the way of fancy features, but are good workhorses. Powermatic machines often have a bit more "bling" and fancy features, or fancy technology like their new non-stick surfaces for bandsaws, table saws, planers, jointers, etc. If you need the features, Powermatic seems to deliver. If you just need the basic machine, Jet is just fine and will save you some money. I have a Jet air filter, bandsaw, drill press and miter saw now. Love all of them, never have issues with any of them, and they serve my needs well. With Jet and Powermatic, I'm able to focus on my work, rather than on dealing with machine problems. That's what I need, that's how I like it, and that's a powerful factor in getting repeat business from me. Again, as mentioned above with the Laguna experience...everyone has different experiences, and some people have run into some problems with Powermatic. Some people LOVE their Nova lathes (although, as far as I can tell, that's almost exclusively the DVR line). I have found in my own travels, however, and in my own research, that people seldom seem to complain about Powermatic. Powermatic is one of the most commonly used lathes by people on YT. That seems to be in line with Robust, OneWay and also Vicmarc...and IMHO would qualify Powermatic as a manufacture of similar caliber and quality. I couldn't tell you that a Laguna lathe would be problem free...in fact, I'd say its really hit or miss and probability is ~50% you run into some kind of problem with any of their machines. With Powermatic and Jet, on the other hand, I think that the risk of running into issues is much lower, and I think that the legacy is indeed justified.
I'm not sure what Rikon was like in the past, but they make top-notch lathes today. I have the 70-1824. It will hold its own against any lathe in that category.
That Wen is the lathe I started on. It's a pretty good lathe for $600. However, I would put it well below Jet, Nova, Rikon, etc. in terms of quality. The quality difference between the Wen and my Rikon 1824 is very significant. It could be that it compares well to the lower-end Rikons. I don't have any experience with those.
Thanks Bob. Coming from you, that means a lot to me.
To be fair, I've heard and read a lot of good things about Rikon's larger machines. I actually almost bought a used Rikon 18"bandsaw a while back, it was really nice...just too big for my shop! I think when you hit the "full sized" lathe category, most manufacturers might step it up a bit.
When it comes to the midi lathes, I think that's where most of them, Wen, Nova, Rikon, Grizzly, etc. can be hit or miss, quality might not quite be there, etc. That said, I think the midi-sized Jet and Powermatic lathes are very nice. Jet's are not all that fancy, they are simple and limited in features, but Jet's midi seems to be a level above the rest just in terms of the quality of the build, reliability of the tailstock, etc. After my Laguna experiences, I guess I am now paranoid about how the tailstock is designed and how stable the quill is.
In any case, Rikons larger machines do seem to be quite nice. Same goes for Nova...their 18" DVR lathe, their free standing DVR drill press, etc. are quite nice.
The Oneway shaft assembly is far thicker and stiffer and uses two bearings at each end.
We all have paths to the lathe we now own. Usually cost is the biggest factor. It was for me for a while. I started with a PM 90 bought at a school auction for $180. Very new to turning and had no idea about lathes and didn’t even know there was an AAW. It had a 3 phase motor that I changed out to a single phase. It wasn’t long I realized a 12” swing was no bigger than the midi lathes. So I raised the PM90 to an 18” swing. The PM 90 had a cabinet base with a 12” foot print. Lowest speed was 320 RPM with the Reeves drive. Just about any out of balance would cause that lathe to walk. And no reverse. With cost being a factor, the Laguna 18-36 seemed like the ideal solution. It had 18” swing, reverse and the leg splay was 26” (from memory) and about $600 less than the Jet. I bought mine from Craft Supply. I owned the Laguna for about 2 years and in that time I replaced every switch, relay, pickup on that lathe. Laguna even sent me a new headstock and eventually had to replace the electronic board in that. I did have excellent CS from Laguna unlike others, but every 2-3 weeks I was replacing something and down for 3-5 days waiting on parts.
When I finally got it to the point where it was working satisfactorily I sold it instead of waiting on the next failure.
One thing I didn’t consider when I bought the Laguna was the floor to spindle height was only 41 1/2”. Too low for me. I also did not like the Laguna steel ways as they seemed scratchy.
I had since discovered the AAW and joined our local turning club. At the club we turn on a PM 4224 and that is a beast of a machine. I knew I would be looking at a more expensive lathe as the turning bug had bitten hard. I ruled out Nova lathes as a member had a Nova and had some problems and also Vicmarc as no one had one and CS is on the other side of the world. Grizzly had just came out with the G0766 and at introduction it had a lot of problems. There were other reasons I did not choose those brands. I narrowed it down to the PM 4224, Oneway 2436. and Robust AB. OneWay does not offer a sliding headstock and I wanted that feature. The PM was a bit older technology. Spindle height was not adjustable and leg splay was not as wide as the AB. The AB checked all the boxes. Yes it cost some $$. However I have been using it the last 5 years and it has worked without issue every time I use it. I can adjust the height to my liking, excellent leg splay and the tailstock swing away is the best IMO. I was concerned about the stainless ways as I did not like the Laguna steel ways. I would now never go back to cast ways. There are a lot of other things that are well done on the Robust AB such as using a Lessons motor and their headstock clamp. For me, the Robust is worth every penny and then some. I have never had a problem with the lathe, but have been able to talk to Brent to answer questions I have had. It is just a joy to know the lathe will perform every time I turn it on. My opinion is very different from those who believe the higher cost lathes are not worth the extra dollars.
When I finally got it to the point where it was working satisfactorily I sold it instead of waiting on the next failure.
One thing I didn’t consider when I bought the Laguna was the floor to spindle height was only 41 1/2”. Too low for me. I also did not like the Laguna steel ways as they seemed scratchy.
I had since discovered the AAW and joined our local turning club. At the club we turn on a PM 4224 and that is a beast of a machine. I knew I would be looking at a more expensive lathe as the turning bug had bitten hard. I ruled out Nova lathes as a member had a Nova and had some problems and also Vicmarc as no one had one and CS is on the other side of the world. Grizzly had just came out with the G0766 and at introduction it had a lot of problems. There were other reasons I did not choose those brands. I narrowed it down to the PM 4224, Oneway 2436. and Robust AB. OneWay does not offer a sliding headstock and I wanted that feature. The PM was a bit older technology. Spindle height was not adjustable and leg splay was not as wide as the AB. The AB checked all the boxes. Yes it cost some $$. However I have been using it the last 5 years and it has worked without issue every time I use it. I can adjust the height to my liking, excellent leg splay and the tailstock swing away is the best IMO. I was concerned about the stainless ways as I did not like the Laguna steel ways. I would now never go back to cast ways. There are a lot of other things that are well done on the Robust AB such as using a Lessons motor and their headstock clamp. For me, the Robust is worth every penny and then some. I have never had a problem with the lathe, but have been able to talk to Brent to answer questions I have had. It is just a joy to know the lathe will perform every time I turn it on. My opinion is very different from those who believe the higher cost lathes are not worth the extra dollars.
How can you disagree with what works best for me? The only thing a Robust might do better is reduce vibration during a cut, which I dont have a problem with on the Nova. I already focus on the turning and not the machine.I disagree. The better the lathe, the more you can focus on the turning, not the machine. Try out a Robust, you will feel the difference
Well that's great! I disagree on the statement, not on your particular situation. I have seen if for myself, you use a mini or midi lathe and then step up to the big lathes, the difference is real regardless of the lathe!
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Oh, excuse me, I apologize for disagreeing with an ex-pert.
Uh, no. You missed the points of my original post. Perhaps you should read it again.Your being sarcastic right?!
A former pert?
I wonder if Laguna is now part of JPW (Jet, Powermatic, Wilton). A bit south of Seattle we have JPW's scratch and dent liquidation center. Recently they've had some Laguna equipment for sale.
I don't recall having that dash in there.....
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I have the new 70-1420 and I don't think there's any other new lathe offering as much bang for the buck. It's a 150 pound lathe with 14" inboard swing so it's not going to be competing with professional lathes, but fit and finish is very good. But perhaps more importantly, Rikon support is among the best for imported tools. My previous lathe, a smaller Rikon, came to me used with a brand new motor and controller because the previous owner reported an issue with the speed controller and Rikon sent him a replacement for the entire electrical system, no charge.
When I have more room, I'm going to get a Robust. I turned on one at class and loved it. But I'm quite happy with the Rikon in the meantime.
Rikon makes good stuff from what I've seen. My first lathe was a green five speed 70-100 purchased nearly 15 yrs ago, and it's still going strong, original belt even. I kept it after upgrading and now it lives at the community workshop where I teach. Best belt/pulley access design of any of the manual speed change lathes.
It sounds like Rikon is a nice brand. I just had experience with my Rikon bandsaw, and it is not particularly the best in terms of quality and stability.
I am no judge though, I just wanted to chime in and give some advice on machines I actually owned and used.
I am no judge though, I just wanted to chime in and give some advice on machines I actually owned and used.
Not much about what's IN a lathe. No pictures, didn't happen, as they say on the internet.
Take a look at odie's work. He's happy with his 16" Woodfast. He may not know exactly why but I do. Its one of the lathes I've got experience with as far as what's IN a lathe.
His spindle is a robust 30mm cylinder but the big point is that there are TWO bearings supporting the spindle front rather than one as on the old Delta lathes and the Powermatic 3520. This adds to a comforting stability when turning. My son now has our Woodfast and he much prefers it. When turning on it, there's a smooth stability not perceived on a single bearing lathe.
In later years, Delta went to a double row front bearing. This made a positive difference.
The point I'm trying to make is that engineering and build quality can make a big difference in stability. That's why there's such a drastic contrast in the quality level shown between the Powermatic 3520 and the Oneway 2436 in the photo several posts back.
I'd love to see a photo of a Robust spindle and bearing assembly. Parts illustrations will only convey so much,
Take a look at odie's work. He's happy with his 16" Woodfast. He may not know exactly why but I do. Its one of the lathes I've got experience with as far as what's IN a lathe.
His spindle is a robust 30mm cylinder but the big point is that there are TWO bearings supporting the spindle front rather than one as on the old Delta lathes and the Powermatic 3520. This adds to a comforting stability when turning. My son now has our Woodfast and he much prefers it. When turning on it, there's a smooth stability not perceived on a single bearing lathe.
In later years, Delta went to a double row front bearing. This made a positive difference.
The point I'm trying to make is that engineering and build quality can make a big difference in stability. That's why there's such a drastic contrast in the quality level shown between the Powermatic 3520 and the Oneway 2436 in the photo several posts back.
I'd love to see a photo of a Robust spindle and bearing assembly. Parts illustrations will only convey so much,
I don’t think so. Maybe they are trade-ins on a Jet or Powermatic. Another turner in our club has the laguna 18-36 and has not had any problems. I guess I just got a bad one made on Friday.
Glad your lathe works for you. A 16” lathe does not work for me. I just don’t want to put limits on what I do. I never planned to turn cowboy hats, but ended up making them for family. I also make a few 16” platters. Since you brought up outboard turning, I can turn up to 60” outboard on my Robust AB. As far as foot print we are talking inches, not feet.
This is interesting stuff Bob. You've made quite a study of this.
A few points...
Googling on 6207 bearings I can find them for less than 20 bucks each and to over $300. All 6207 should have the same physical dimensions and that's about the only similarity. I see comments from reputable bearing suppliers saying about 10 to 20% of the low cost eBay bearings are low quality fakes. Motion Industries is nationwide and my favorite bearing supplier.
On one of my CNC lathes they use tapered roller bearings, one at each end of the spindle rated at 5,000 rpm. Replacing those bearings is an all day process of progressively running the spindle for a time period at increasing rpm's while monitoring end play and bearing temperature as the preload nut on the spindle end is adjusted.
Hardinge super precision machine tools (the Rolls Royce of machine tools) used two spindle bearings with a precision spacer between the bearings. The spacer determined the bearing preload. 40 years ago Hardinge charged $1800 for a bearing replacement if you sent the headstock to them. The bearing replacement is done in a clean room.
There's a Youtube showing the replacement of Oneway spindle bearings. That spindle is quite a piece of engineering, one bearing on the chuck end and a matched pair of bearings on the back end. Replacement is not a typical home shop project.
Older Delta machines and other vintage used pre-lubricated shielded bearings (open to dust). Back in the day sealed bearings weren't used because the friction of the seals caused bearing overheating. Now days seals are better without the issue of overheating. I just replaced the shielded bearings in my old Delta 6 x 48 belt sander and my supplier had a choice of sealed bearings rated based on the working rpm.
And finally, precision bearings, anything above the electric motor grade, are expensive in pairs and if not correctly installed can be destroyed easily.
A few points...
Googling on 6207 bearings I can find them for less than 20 bucks each and to over $300. All 6207 should have the same physical dimensions and that's about the only similarity. I see comments from reputable bearing suppliers saying about 10 to 20% of the low cost eBay bearings are low quality fakes. Motion Industries is nationwide and my favorite bearing supplier.
On one of my CNC lathes they use tapered roller bearings, one at each end of the spindle rated at 5,000 rpm. Replacing those bearings is an all day process of progressively running the spindle for a time period at increasing rpm's while monitoring end play and bearing temperature as the preload nut on the spindle end is adjusted.
Hardinge super precision machine tools (the Rolls Royce of machine tools) used two spindle bearings with a precision spacer between the bearings. The spacer determined the bearing preload. 40 years ago Hardinge charged $1800 for a bearing replacement if you sent the headstock to them. The bearing replacement is done in a clean room.
There's a Youtube showing the replacement of Oneway spindle bearings. That spindle is quite a piece of engineering, one bearing on the chuck end and a matched pair of bearings on the back end. Replacement is not a typical home shop project.
Older Delta machines and other vintage used pre-lubricated shielded bearings (open to dust). Back in the day sealed bearings weren't used because the friction of the seals caused bearing overheating. Now days seals are better without the issue of overheating. I just replaced the shielded bearings in my old Delta 6 x 48 belt sander and my supplier had a choice of sealed bearings rated based on the working rpm.
And finally, precision bearings, anything above the electric motor grade, are expensive in pairs and if not correctly installed can be destroyed easily.
Fortunately the better wood lathes these days generally come with good grade bearings. The need for bearing replacement is rare unless the lathe has gotten 20 years of professional use.
Actually the older Delta lathes and other older Delta machinery (pre-1975) often used sealed bearing, but the seal was felt enclosed in sheet metal shields. Truthfully my photo of the old 1460 lathe is labeled incorrectly. That bearing was actually known as an 87503 with offset races but I didn't have one handy for the photo.
Precision bearings were often sold in factory matched sets as seen below.
I used to do a lot of bearing replacements both in my shop and in other's shops. Below is a shot I took once when I was organizing my bearing inventory as to sizes and bearing series.
Actually the older Delta lathes and other older Delta machinery (pre-1975) often used sealed bearing, but the seal was felt enclosed in sheet metal shields. Truthfully my photo of the old 1460 lathe is labeled incorrectly. That bearing was actually known as an 87503 with offset races but I didn't have one handy for the photo.
Precision bearings were often sold in factory matched sets as seen below.
I used to do a lot of bearing replacements both in my shop and in other's shops. Below is a shot I took once when I was organizing my bearing inventory as to sizes and bearing series.
Now we know who to call!
I started with a Rikon Midi but within a year upgraded to a Nova DVR-XP. Love it. have added an extension as well as an outrigger neither of which is used very often. Main reasons were #1 didn't come with a stand as I bult my own with storage included. #2 price was reasonable but #3 I hate changing belts and the XP's (now the Saturn, I believe) direct drive is awesome. Have had it now for 10 years and don't see any reason to buy anything else.
I have a JET 1221and it's never gets in my way. 🙃I disagree. The better the lathe, the more you can focus on the turning, not the machine. Try out a Robust, you will feel the difference
As long as it isn't a VFD or a speed controller. Those things, when they break, are not something I can fix.
I turn on a Nova Saturn. Some day I will own a oneway 2436, i have turned on one and it was a good experience, noticibly better than my saturn or the general that I've turned on. It's not worth the cost difference right now, with my lack of disposable income, but if the funds were available I'd upgrade tomorrow. Of course i need a new shop first, i wouldn't want to put an 800 pound lathe on the floor in my little shop. that day is far down the road.
I can't imagine between exchange rate and duty buying a robust or vicmark unfortunately.
I can't imagine between exchange rate and duty buying a robust or vicmark unfortunately.
Glad you are happy. At ~4x the $, I don’t think I would be. That’s enough $ to add another motorcycle for one of my other hobbies.
More than happy every time I turn on the Robust. Motorcycles are not my thing. My other hobby is deep sea fishing and I either charter or go out with my brother.