I have been following this thread closely as I have a heavily modified Delta DL 40 and have just stumbled across a used Oneway 2436 3 hp - which I have first offer of refusal on, and am going to look at it this weekend. I am like a kid waiting for Christmas!
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What's in a Lathe?
- Thread starter Kent Reisdorph
- Start date
If you haven't already discovered www.turnawoodbowl.com, I highly recommend you check it out. Kent Weakley has a lot of free videos on his site and on YouTube. He also has a handful of paid courses that are worth the money.
I have been turning for 30+ years. It all comes down to two things. Money and intent. The quality can be found at any level but you will get what you pay for. For American made, unless you go back in time, will cost you. The newer stuff has its merits and benefits from refinement over the years. You have to decide, are you a $300 dollar turner, $1000, $5000 or $8000 turner? How many will you buy along the way? As with many things buy the best you can afford and see yourself using down the road. I have one saying that comes back to me over and over. The quality of work is in the mechanic not the tool. Many of the folks chiming in here can literally turn a sows ear into a silk purse with it is a Harbor Freight or an American Beauty or anything in between. Start somewhere. Like throwing a dart, there are many excellent values on the used market. Older units with lots of life left. PM is designed, engineered here in the states and then produced in their manufacturing facility in Taiwan. It is the same for many but several are made in China. The European models are excellent also. At the levels above $3000 you will have a unit you can pass down to your kids or sell for close to what you have invested. The key take away, START TURNING! Enjoy.
This discussion of what what/who makes the best lathe, remind me of the WWII story about a bunch of GIs putting together the perfect woman. They put all the body parts together from different movie stars etc. A soldier overhearing the debate finally lamented that he would be happy to have all the parts they didn’t use. Same here!
Check out this lathe, and the work produced on it.
The Craft - Robin Wood
Woodturning history and techniques using hand forged tools and pole lathe
www.robin-wood.co.uk
A couple things worth noting in the Robin Wood video. First was the mechanism reversing the rotation of the bowl which is ridiculous, there were treadle mechanisms that maintained direction of rotation.
The second was the tools. Some hook some not hook, but all had small included angle on the cutting edge. I bet he didn't have the nonsense of a sharpening jig, more likely he honed the cutting edge when needed. You have to have a free cutting tool to work at his slow speed. Anybody think the current latest and greatest gouges would have performed well if at all on his lathe?
The second was the tools. Some hook some not hook, but all had small included angle on the cutting edge. I bet he didn't have the nonsense of a sharpening jig, more likely he honed the cutting edge when needed. You have to have a free cutting tool to work at his slow speed. Anybody think the current latest and greatest gouges would have performed well if at all on his lathe?
Robin has chosen to keep up the tradition of using a Pole Lathe, Not a treadle lathe.
Perhaps you should have read the text?
“When George Lailey died in 1958 a craft going back more than 2000 years died with him. He was the last person in England to make a living turning wooden bowls on a foot powered pole lathe. In medieval times nearly everybody in Britain ate from wooden bowls every day. They were beautiful, functional bowls that linger on in memories of Goldilocks but were killed off by the industrial revolution and cheap pottery.
I became fascinated by the craft whilst working in woodland conservation and set about reviving the lost technique, first learning the blacksmithing skills I needed to forge the specialised turning tools.”
I’ve gone through 6 lathe in 53 years of turning, from Sears to 3520 and now Robust long bed. My Robust is 7 years old I could sell it for more than I paid for it, (welcome to inflation). Think of good lathes as investments.
Thanks for posting it. There was something to be gained from it.
I did read it and I still think it was ridiculous in the mid 1900's to use a lathe like that. Tradition is one thing, torture is another. I've never looked closely at a pole lathe, but have seen similar mechanism that don't reverse the work.
As to the turner's tools, they were good. Current turners could learn something from them.
I do need much more time with hook tools. As near as I can tell, they are a very under used tool for just about all turners.... I know.... I should make my own!
robo hippy
robo hippy
I’ve never used one, but I’d like to. From what I’ve read they can be quite aggressive. I believe they are quite popular in Europe?
Wiedemann make HSS interchangeable tip hook tools. I’ve been meaning to make something similar out of O1 Tool Steel to see how they work.
odie
TOTW Team
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(It's commendable to see you participate in these conversations, Brent......as well as just absorbing the information being discussed, whether or not you actively participate in the conversation. Most manufacturers are probably more personally engaged in design theory, rather than practical application. You are different.)
Hello Brent,
Concerning your comment about 99.9% of turners not being able to tell the difference in the material used for a lathe bed.....well, I think you are correct, and I also feel that I'm in that 0.1% category who could.....and, I also feel this is an important consideration for woodturners who strive to achieve the ever-elusive perfect cut in cross-grain bowl turning.
It goes beyond just the bedways, because the significance of the lathe bed is on the same level as how the lathe headstock and spindle is constructed....and the bearing arrangement between them. You are absolutely correct where the interaction of the cutting edge with the wood is of great importance, as well......and it's not just a matter of an out-of-balance condition of the turning block of wood......there are many other factors that influence the ability to achieve the "perfect cut". @William Rogers has mentioned a few of those other factors......but, even they have their limitations as to how they ultimately influence the conditions that can lead to a perfect cut. My definition of a perfect cut is one that is devoid of any tearout, and requires a bare minimum of sanding. This completely eliminates the need for any power sanding at all. Hand sanding starting at grits at or higher than 180gt will make it possible to maintain a perfect geometry.....and, it is precisely this perfect geometry which allows the turned details to be pleasing to the eye. Especially of note in bowl turning, is the grain of the wood alternates between long grain and end grain.......and that creates an alternating resistance to the cutting tool. Because of this, and in combination with any present vibration, it's been the bane of woodturners to create a tooled surface that is free of any tearout. When there is tearout, it requires coarse sanding, and coarse power sanding just can't get rid of tearout without destroying the perfect geometry that a tooled surface is capable of.
Vibration, I've come to have a very special relationship with.....and, controlling it through a combination of rpm adjustments, sharp tools, tool design, and technique has been my greatest challenge in woodturning. The manipulation of these multiple sources of input, in order to reach the best harmonic combination of these things, can't be learned in a seminar or class instruction......they must be mentally absorbed over time and experimentation in order to gain a complete insight into how these things are related to one another. I call this "spiritual turning", and it's something that seems the 99.9% of turners you mentioned are incapable of comprehending at their current level of understanding.
-o-
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Curt,
I would agree. I started many years ago with a very used General 160. It was a great lathe, and they do a fantastic jobs on their castings.
I came across a used Oneway 1024 and it is an fantastic lathe, but I love my cast Iron (just personal feelings).
I saved and bought a Bare Vicmarc VL300, I can't believe those could be purchased for 1500.00 new. I did not have much money starting out after school, but I worked at Cincinnati Milacron R&D and was happy to buy used/not working old machines and put in sweat equity to build out my Shop.
My late wife was an artist, and we could sit in the booths together on the weekends. She often asked me if my hobby was woodturning/woodworking or Fixing old woodworking tools and selling them. I did marry up.....
Back to my cast iron, and I really like the Tapered Bearons in them. If you really think about, the business parts of the lathe are:
- stand (get to your height and stable)
- motor (steady and strong power)
- bearings - Hold your spindle and work
The Cast Iron's lathes give you a different "feel" (not saying better or worse, just different).
I love the Vicmarcs' rock-solid cast iron feel, the quality of the finish, and the tapered bearings, but I will be the first to admit it is a Ford/Chevy thing.
I really admire the "newer than mine" Vicmarc VL240, but with a VL150 and VL300 and I use my old Oneway 1018. I don't know if I will have space to add the VL240, and don't know what I would get rid of to add it
Enjoy whatever you end up and don't look back.
Michael