What are some of your design "rules"..?

[stu senator]

Speaking strictly of bowls, and aside from a few salad bowls, very few turned bowls have any applicable function. There are exceptions, but the great majority of turned bowls have no function, other than to look good in their intended setting. From man's early beginnings, you'd find wooden bowls being used in everyday life....so, it's part of our heritage. In our modern times, the function is implied, but not realized..... You could say that a wooden bowl is in our DNA!

Not true, from where I am sitting I see a shallow bowl holding the TV remotes, deep narrow bowls (OK cups) holding pencils and pens, small bowls with paper clips and rubber bands, larger ones with spare cables and small electronic devices (so the wife doesn't get upset by the mess). In the kitchen for fruit and to put a small portion of chips so we don't eat the whole bag. In the bedroom for pocket litter and jewelry. The list could go on. Not to mention they look good however they are used.

Stu

 

[odie]

Not true, from where I am sitting I see a shallow bowl holding the TV remotes, deep narrow bowls (OK cups) holding pencils and pens, small bowls with paper clips and rubber bands, larger ones with spare cables and small electronic devices (so the wife doesn't get upset by the mess). In the kitchen for fruit and to put a small portion of chips so we don't eat the whole bag. In the bedroom for pocket litter and jewelry. The list could go on. Not to mention they look good however they are used.

Stu

I get what you're saying, Stu.....

But, that's because you are a turner. If you go into homes where there is no connection to someone who turns, there just isn't very many turned bowls, or turned objects of any kind, for that matter......anywhere. This represents the vast majority of homes. As I said, there are exceptions, and you represent one of those exceptions.

-o-

 

[Michael Anderson]

I don't really care about how thin something is either.

Neither do I.

Thin/thick should be an element of the design as well, and it’s something that should be cared about. It’s likely true that the folks that care most about wall thickness are fellow turners. BUT there are times when thick walls are wanted and other times when thin walls are desired. Whether for function or aesthetics. Edit: I also agree though, thin solely for the sake of being thin is secondary (which is the point you were making, no doubt)

 

[Jerry Bennett]

If it breaks falling over, not good. Survivability at a show is the number one rule. I have never been a fan of inappropriately thin vessels. I picked up you know who’s vessel back in the day, probably 30 inches tall. It was very, very light. Then and now, I ask why?

 

[odie]

If it breaks falling over, not good. Survivability at a show is the number one rule. I have never been a fan of inappropriately thin vessels. I picked up you know who’s vessel back in the day, probably 30 inches tall. It was very, very light. Then and now, I ask why?

Back in the time when I was producing thin wall bowls, there was an instance when a breeze came through the shop door, and one of my thin wall bowls blew off the table it was sitting on. Needless to say, it was very light, and it didn't survive the fall to the cement floor. For me, that was one incident that represented a turning point in my own thinking about thin wall. There really isn't any reason to make bowls so fragile that they can't withstand minimal use.

Thin/thick should be an element of the design as well, and it’s something that should be cared about. It’s likely true that the folks that care most about wall thickness are fellow turners.

In what way, Michael? Thick/thin is mostly something you can't see (with a few exceptions, of course), and you are very correct that those who admire thinness are other turners. Most everyone else couldn't care less, and if it's too light, I dare say that some people don't like that at all. (If someone picks it up and exclaims how light it is.....that shouldn't be confused with them liking it being so light.)

As far as thickness goes......I do feel that some people like their salad bowls to be thick, as they consider it durable. I recently made a salad bowl where the base was very thick, and my thoughts on that is it will be more stable as the server dishes out servings of salad. There, thickness might actually be advantageous. Now, thinness, on the other hand.....I can't think of a reason why very thin bowls or vessels would have any practical application, or any artistic relevance worthy of appreciation......other than from other turners, and those who understand and appreciate that it requires an extra bit of skill to produce thin wall.

-o-

 

[Michael Anderson]

In what way, Michael?

If a bowl is utilitarian I think it's better to be thicker, within reason of course. No one wants to lift a 20 pound bowl. I do think that in thicker, heavier cases it benefits to add things like undercut rim (or extended or rolled over rim) to aid in handling. And, I agree salad or serving bowls should be thicker on the bottom (and the rim) than the rest of the bowl for the sake of durability. It would be ridiculous to market a salad bowl with 1mm walls--the bowl would not survive. Alternatively, it would be ridiculous to market a rice bowl with 1" walls--it would be unwieldy in the hand.

What I meant when I said thin is desired is more in the context of decorative non-practical bowls. Plenty of examples of thin being artistically relevant. Translucent NIP bowls would not be translucent if thick. Wildly deformed Madrone burl or Fig bowls would not be as dramatic if thick. Pierced bowls would be ineffective if thick. Just to name a few...now, would I serve salad or rice in these? No way. That isn't their purpose. The appreciation by turners is just a cherry on top, but is secondary to the design that necessitated the thin walls.

Besides all that, thin and thick are relative to size, yeah? I think something can look well proportioned with a range of thicknesses, but there are extremes at both ends where pieces just look...not so well proportioned. Likewise, the style of the bowl might determine what thickness is appropriate.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

My final inspector is my older sister. I'm running into the situation of "Why is it so heavy?" I reply because I don't want it to break if it gets dropped. She'll reply with "I can't pick it up easily".... Apparently if I consider genetics..... I have thirteen years to go!

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

and eliminate the need to hollow through a small opening

That is a design element that is never discussed! The opening should be proportional to the size of the piece in my opinion. Consider the commonly made " hollow form" that is wider then it is tall with an opening terribly small and in my opinion just looks ridiculous.

 

[Curt Fuller]

No rules! No rulers, no calipers, no drawings. Yes the wood does speak in a way but mostly it's the chainsaw and the bandsaw that do the talking. I cut almost all of my wood and I tend to cut a log into pieces that will work for what I'm trending with at the time. But I end up with too many bowl blanks, too many hollowform blanks or whatever and they get put on the shelf and no matter how bad I want to make something other than what they were cut for, the wood says no. When I get stumped I just find a piece of wood that looks good and design something on the fly. That's not necessarily the way everyone should do it but for me it works. I can't think of a rule I haven't broken. I've watched demos where the turner has a beautiful form going only to break out the rulers and calipers and start talking about the rules of form and ruin what they had going. My philosophy is don't fence me in with a bunch of rules. Now safety is a different issue, lots of rules.

 

[odie]

What I meant when I said thin is desired is more in the context of decorative non-practical bowls. Plenty of examples of thin being artistically relevant. Translucent NIP bowls would not be translucent if thick. Wildly deformed Madrone burl or Fig bowls would not be as dramatic if thick. Pierced bowls would be ineffective if thick.

Thanks for the reply, Michael.....

Translucent and pierced are two good examples that would be exceptions, and I had not considered these when I made my statements. Regardless, the great majority of turned bowls would not benefit artistically, aesthetically, or visually by a thin wall.

BTW, all of the bowls on my Etsy site, and many of those listed in my AAW album have the actual weight listed. As you can see, my bowls are far from being what anyone would describe as being "heavy", even though they are not thin wall. This large 13" x 5" ash salad bowl is thick wall. It's about 1/2" all the way, IIRC, and it weighs 2 lb 12.4 oz.....far from the 20lb bowl you referenced, and quite easily handled.....even for Sam's sister! (99% of my not-thin wall bowls are much lighter than this one.)

-o-

 

[Perry Hilbert]

My interest is far more in design than processes. I'm curious if others have some guiding principles or rules for their designs. Some also let the wood determine the object design. I read a piece by David Ellsworth saying he puts a chunk of wood in the lathe and let's the wood determine the design (not sure I believe that).

Here are three that come to mind for me. Please add some of yours.

1) Form follows function. If you want to make a bowl or container design it around its function and what it's meant to hold.

2) Use the rule of thirds where applicable. Like a box with a lid make the parting line 1/3 down from the top.

3) Make a pleasant form in design that stands by itself as attractive. Don't rely on wood grain or embellishments.

For some reason, I just can't throw a piece of wood on the lathe and let it "be what it wants to be" But I do make turnings that are intended to be an integral part of a larger thing. I am always looking for a way to increase efficiency. I currently have a batch of music boxes under way. Sometimes outlining steps and tools on paper . I actually turn a rond body for the music boxes. sort of an upside down bowl. with a small scene of turned figures on top. Some times I study catalogs of turned art from Germany on their pyramids, schwibboggen and candle arches to find a style i like. 4 years ago, I turned a dozen or more tou soldier/nutcracker figurines, but couldn't figure out how to make their arms satisfactorily, I recently found a style and way to make arms and hands that I like.
Some times the planning and making the jigs takes far more time than the actual turning.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

What makes woodturning special is the varied approaches of each maker. All are valid. For me, when I get an idea for a piece, I do not impose any restrictions on it’s design or making. The concept of a tree telling someone what to do is amusing to me. To accomplish most of my work, segmenting is the answer and figured wood is not appropriate. A work can have qualities that usurp all traditional design rules. For instance whimsy or narratives that make a point.
Turning a vessel or a bowl is a completely different story. Tradition is at the forefront. Southwestern vessels, the calabash, natural edge bowls, salad bowls and others have design properties we have come to expect. Deviation from that norm is seen to be imperfect. You can actually make the design question moot in these cases by simply making a set of templates or an app that always outputs the perfect shape instead of guessing. I suspect mine and your world is more interesting than that.
Uggg, early morning rambling.

 

[Michael Anderson]

@odie oh yeah, I agree with you there that the majority of bowls do not benefit from having a thin-walled design. But then, that should be part of the design process, thinking about the overall look of the bowl including how thick/thin the wall is. That’s what I meant with my original statement. Wall thickness is just one part of the design that should be considered.

Ultimately, aesthetic appeal is subjective. Thin looks good a lot of times, and if thicker, then the elegance might be lost. Thick looks good sometimes, and if thin the impact is lost. Just depends.

Let me ask you this, what do you quantify as “too thin” for bowl that is 8” diameter? (What size thickness, I mean). The question is somewhat rhetorical. Without including function in the thought process, it’s 99% matter of preference.

 

[Russ Braun]

If it breaks falling over, not good. Survivability at a show is the number one rule. I have never been a fan of inappropriately thin vessels. I picked up you know who’s vessel back in the day, probably 30 inches tall. It was very, very light. Then and now, I ask why?

Being a thick, clunky segmented vessel turner in the beginning, thinner has always intrigued me. I’ve made some fairly large vessels with the intention of turning them thin; most times they have been thicker than I would have liked. With a target of somewhere between 1/8” and 3/16”, I’m always shocked at the weight of an 18” tall vessel. My caliper setting looks super thin to my eye, I can’t go thinner, lol?? The turning is a real knee knocker (getting better) with months of time being consumed in the glue up. End result is I typically still want it a touch thinner…strange! What’s likely is there is a formula that my mind has developed that creates this thickness and it’s actually the ideal thickness for these vessels. They are totally stout which is likely due to Titebond adhesive surrounding 144 segments, haha.

 

[Russ Braun]

If it breaks falling over, not good. Survivability at a show is the number one rule. I have never been a fan of inappropriately thin vessels. I picked up you know who’s vessel back in the day, probably 30 inches tall. It was very, very light. Then and now, I ask why?

For me, there is magic in a large, lightweight, Segmented vessel. Since mine are less utilitarian vessels and more eye candy, picking them up and having them lightweight is part of the sweetness!! Now I haven’t had the disappointment of FedEx destroying a piece; I‘m not sure thicker would have saved that beauty (now that was eye candy in the extreme)!! Check out “Maple Syrple” on Jerry’s website. While nothing lasts forever, this was a real loss IMO!

 

[Michael Anderson]

If it breaks falling over, not good. Survivability at a show is the number one rule.

I agree with this to a certain degree. It would be a tragedy to lose a piece that you’ve spent dozens or hundreds of hours working on. No doubt about that. But, I wonder how ceramic and glass artists approach this. It’s just a risk they have to accept. I don’t believe that we’re any differently just because our medium is wood. If you make a fragile piece you have to be willing to accept its potential long term non-survival.

Disclaimer: this is coming from someone who has not lost a piece at a show…yet. Though, I have had a couple of work-in-progress bowls meet their demise in the hands of my toddler.

 

[odie]

Let me ask you this, what do you quantify as “too thin” for bowl that is 8” diameter? (What size thickness, I mean). The question is somewhat rhetorical. Without including function in the thought process, it’s 99% matter of preference.

Oh, you are absolutely right that this whole discussion about thin wall is a matter of personal preference. It's all good, when the turner himself, or observer decides it is.....or isn't.

To answer your question, it is my opinion that anything less than 1/4" thick is useless, and it's actually taking acceptance among woodturners as more of a priority than what reality dictates. (This statement is in acknowledgement that translucent and piercing would still be among the exceptions.) Comment: @Russ Braun 's segmented turnings are outstanding, and if he prefers thinner than 1/4", that would be the artist's prerogative to feel about it any way he wishes. IOW, my opinion is strictly the influencer of my own works, and no bearing on anyone else's.

-o-

 

[Russ Braun]

Oh, you are absolutely right that this whole discussion about thin wall is a matter of personal preference. It's all good, when the turner himself, or observer decides it is.....or isn't.

To answer your question, it is my opinion that anything less than 1/4" thick is useless, and it's actually taking acceptance among woodturners as more of a priority than what reality dictates. (This statement is in acknowledgement that translucent and piercing would still be among the exceptions.) Comment: @Russ Braun 's segmented turnings are outstanding, and if he prefers thinner than 1/4", that would be the artist's prerogative to feel about it any way he wishes. IOW, my opinion is strictly the influencer of my own works, and no bearing on anyone else's.

-o-

Lol, while some people like to sit on the edge of cliffs high above Norway’s fjords, I prefer gluing thousands of segments and taking ”one more cut”! Woohoo!!

 

[Russ Braun]

I agree with this to a certain degree. It would be a tragedy to lose a piece that you’ve spent dozens or hundreds of hours working on. No doubt about that. But, I wonder how ceramic and glass artists approach this. It’s just a risk they have to accept. I don’t believe that we’re any differently just because our medium is wood. If you make a fragile piece you have to be willing to accept its potential long term non-survival.

Disclaimer: this is coming from someone who has not lost a piece at a show…yet. Though, I have had a couple of work-in-progress bowls meet their demise in the hands of my toddler.

Not only do you have a rare eye for things Michael, you're also a turner with toddlers….perhaps an even rarer occurrence, lol!!

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Good point about glass. Glass is known for it’s fragility however, wood is not and each will be handled differently. Looking at a Russ Braun masterpiece across the room, it will look sturdy, no matter the thickness. Only if you pick it up for the tactile experience will you become aware of the weight. You never see the thickness. If the weight is not in a range perceived normal for the piece, too heavy or too light, it will leave a negative impact on its salability. If thinness is a personal goal, which is cool, why not shoot for 1/16in with a window featuring the wall thickness.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Let me jump in on this, I think turning items that have use is extremely important. Like Odie said, you can't sell thin wall bowl because the customer will be afraid to touch it! When making my lidded boxes, the design element really comes from how the wood looks from the start. Rough out the blank and then step back and assess. If it is highly figured then the shape may be more simple, if there is no figuring and it is just vertical grain, then a rounded or elegant shaped box may be called for. Also with the lid, the fit is EXTREMELY important! If it is too tight then nobody will use it and it will be a turn off to older folks or woman who can't pry off the concrete lid.....no offense! That slip fit, but not it falling off when you pick it up is what should be achieved. So that balancing act of good design, sharp details and a excellent fitting lid, will then create a box that every customer wants. I tend to think of my boxes as engagement ring or earring boxes because of the smaller size and exquisite woods. Some people now, with the tight financial situation will just not pay for a shelf item.

 

[odie]

I tend to think of my boxes as engagement ring or earring boxes because of the smaller size and exquisite woods.

Sometimes we have to work with the best woods we can find.....and, size is very often secondary to what Mother Nature can provide. Gabriel....you're right about taking another look at the wood and making adjustments according to what is revealed. With a basic block of wood, you just never know what's inside until after you start turning it. All you can do is make your best guess, and leaving the shape open to further analysis should always be an option.

-o-

 

[Russ Braun]

Let me jump in on this, I think turning items that have use is extremely important. Like Odie said, you can't sell thin wall bowl because the customer will be afraid to touch it! When making my lidded boxes, the design element really comes from how the wood looks from the start. Rough out the blank and then step back and assess. If it is highly figured then the shape may be more simple, if there is no figuring and it is just vertical grain, then a rounded or elegant shaped box may be called for. Also with the lid, the fit is EXTREMELY important! If it is too tight then nobody will use it and it will be a turn off to older folks or woman who can't pry off the concrete lid.....no offense! That slip fit, but not it falling off when you pick it up is what should be achieved. So that balancing act of good design, sharp details and an excellent fitting lid, will then create a box that every customer wants. I tend to think of my boxes as engagement ring or earring boxes because of the smaller size and exquisite woods. Some people now, with the tight financial situation will just not pay for a shelf item.

Our task as Woodturners has many facets. One is unleashing what a piece of wood has to offer. Both Odie and Gabriel do outstanding jobs of that with size, form and function. If you put a lid on something, getting it to be fully functional is the turner’s responsibility (no easy task with constantly moving woods). Embrace the challenge in front of you and then do it again….it’s what we do! When you no longer find yourself challenged, find a new challenge to embrace. That is what keeps us going!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Good point about glass. Glass is known for its fragility however, wood is not and each will be handled differently. Looking at a Russ Braun masterpiece across the room, it will look sturdy, no matter the thickness. Only if you pick it up for the tactile experience will you become aware of the weight. You never see the thickness. If the weight is not in a range perceived normal for the piece, too heavy or too light, it will leave a negative impact on its salability. If thinness is a personal goal, which is cool, why not shoot for 1/16in with a window featuring the wall thickness.

Since Becky now keeps my “family jewels” in her purse, I’m no long equipped with what it takes to go 1/16” thick Jerry!! A window (or two) does sound interesting though!!

 

[Marc Banka]

The notion the these “rules” are restrictive is a bit backward. The “rules” are there to guide you, to help you create a form that people will be instinctively attracted to. A bit of reverse engineering, if you will. The grace, beauty, balance were there long before the ‘rules’ were stated.
A few years back I took a pottery class,,where I enjoyed making bowls, no big surprise. After the thrown bowls firm up for a few days, they have to be remounted to the wheel to trim, create a foot from the wider base left by the throwing process. Sound familiar? It’s easier and quicker in clay. At the time, I wasn’t aware of the thirds rule about foot size. So, I trimmed them to what looked right to me. Then I learned the rule, a bit late. So, I measured all of what I had made, rim size to foot size. Wouldn’t you know it? Every bowl had a foot that was 1/3 the rim size + or - 3percent.
What I saw when I was working was that larger than that looked clunky,,less seemed unstable.
So, what I would tell someone starting out, someone who hadn’t developed their ‘eye’, would be make the foot 1/3. This will put you on your way to a form that will be more balanced as viewed by most anyone, with or without design experience.

@Curt Fuller above states that he stays away from rules, but looking at his work which is all very lovely, I see really nice forms, can see that they come from one artist,,one view, one hand. And I’ll bet if one measured them we would find that they fall right in line with these design rules. Curt’s ‘eye’ is developed, by whatever means or path, not necessarily by reading the ’rules’, but by observing the rules in nature, in beauty around him and all of us.

We mostly all know a beautiful face when we see one, right? A pretty woman is just that, the world over. Would knowing that there is a mathematical formula to that beauty ruin it for you? Hopefully not. But if you wanted to learn to draw a pretty face, you would put yourself ahead by learning facial proportions.

With your designs and projects, you should just make whatever feels right. But then, take the time to look at it, enjoy it with an eye toward improving on it. Keep at that idea only changing the aspects of it that could be better, again, in your eye, and again only speaking of the design (not sanding or finishing or better tool work). You might be surprised to find the changes bring your design closer to the ‘rules’. Why? Because you’re a human animal.

They aren’t so much ’rules’, as ‘shortcuts‘ to beauty.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I wonder how ceramic and glass artists approach this.

Here's a little side story that will appeal to anyone who has ever filed a damage claim with UPS. And of course your claim was always denied.

In my shop we sometimes "built" art from artists' sketches. They came to me because in my business I had a well equipped CNC shop used to prototype engineering designs. Artists usually were more interesting people to work with than my usual customers. It was kinda fun too.

Anyway, one big project was "art" lighting for the common areas outside the showrooms at Oregon Convention Center in Portland where two symposiums have been held. Initially there were 20 wall sconces to be delivered to Portland from Seattle. The question was how to safely get them to Portland without risk of breakage. The artist decided to have a UPS packaging expert come out to tell us how to pack them. Per his instructions cardboard boxes were custom made including padding. After packing the UPS guy came, approved and signed off on the shipment of 20 separate boxes UPS broke all 20 of the pieces and as usual their knee jerk reaction was to deny the claim. The denial was only good until they were shown the shipping approval by their own guy. The damage was around $40K which they paid. I wasn't involved and not sure exactly how the repaired pieces were eventually shipped. BTW, the artist did not blow the glass himself and the metal parts were made in my shop. Being lighting in a public space it also had to have a UL approval on the wiring.

This situation brings up the concept of an artist having someone produce their art from their design. The debate of CNC versus hand work is minor in comparison. I wondered about the issue with the first artist I worked with. Apparently it's more common than most realize. Architects have been doing it for thousands of years. What do you suppose the reaction would be within the AAW to artists not actually doing their work beyond the design?

One piece of glass came to me from a native American artist needing a turned base made. That piece was something really special and so potentially fragile I was afraid to take it into the shop because all the table surfaces were metal. I got a base made and the artist was satisfied. Later I found through the rumor mill that piece sold to a collector for $60K which totally blew me away. AKAIK the artist did not blow that one either.

 

[Dave Landers]

If you make a fragile piece you have to be willing to accept its potential long term non-survival.
...
Disclaimer: this is coming from someone who has not lost a piece at a show…yet. Though, I have had a couple of work-in-progress bowls meet their demise in the hands of my toddler.

I've lost a couple pieces, usually due to my own carelessness while setting up a show. Meh - it's just wood and I can fix it or make another. Not to say I'm careless, but I don't get worked up about it if it happens.

The “rules” are there to guide you, to help you create a form that people will be instinctively attracted to.
...
They aren’t so much ’rules’, as ‘shortcuts‘ to beauty.

It's like our turning "rules" (cut up- or down-hill, float the bevel, remove the pith, no skew on a bowl, etc) - they're there to guide you in the beginning (shortcuts to safety and success) but as you gain experience you learn when/how/why/if to "break" the rules.

 

[Michael Anderson]

@Doug Rasmussen that was an interesting story—thanks for sharing! You’re right about UPS claims being nearly futile (and USPS as well, partly for the amount of hoops you’re forced to jump through).

And, re an artist and contracted laborers (or similar), that is also such an interesting topic as well. I won’t go down the rabbit hole very far in this thread. I follow the work of several metal artists on other platforms (medium to large scale works). It seems like once you reach a certain stature, you’re just the idea man and your team implements everything. Maybe promotion becomes more important than fabrication. (I know this is a simplistic way to speak about the subject, but fascinating nonetheless)

 

[Paul May]

@odie oh yeah, I agree with you there that the majority of bowls do not benefit from having a thin-walled design. But then, that should be part of the design process, thinking about the overall look of the bowl including how thick/thin the wall is. That’s what I meant with my original statement. Wall thickness is just one part of the design that should be considered.

Ultimately, aesthetic appeal is subjective. Thin looks good a lot of times, and if thicker, then the elegance might be lost. Thick looks good sometimes, and if thin the impact is lost. Just depends.

Let me ask you this, what do you quantify as “too thin” for bowl that is 8” diameter? (What size thickness, I mean). The question is somewhat rhetorical. Without including function in the thought process, it’s 99% matter of preference.

It all depend on how it feels in the hand when done Michael (at least to me). I have turned some really thin vessels and have left some at 1/2" wall thickness with 11-12" diameters. Those were more utilitarian. The thin ones not so much.

 

[hockenbery]

I've lost a couple pieces, usually due to my own carelessness while setting up a show. Meh - it's just wood and I can fix it or make another. Not to say I'm careless, but I don't get worked up about it if it happens

I used to do runs of hollow ball Christmas ornaments, had a few fall in shows we did with a carpeted floor. They always hit globe end first and didn’t break.

I lost 5 in a cleaning frenzy. When I glued them up I had a board with 10 holes in a vice. Set them in with the long finial down for the glue to dry. One time a dragged a flexible shop vac hose under the end of the board. It broke the ends of the finials and the glue had dried.

Expensive fire starter!

 

[Dave Landers]

Expensive fire starter!

Yeah, sometimes we give ourselves opportunity to learn something. Sometimes we learn (sometimes it's just opportunity).

 

[Neil S]

I read a piece by David Ellsworth saying he puts a chunk of wood in the lathe and let's the wood determine the design

That is what I do 99% of the time, but I make most of the design decisions before the wood goes on the lathe when I'm cutting up the blank with the chainsaw/bandsaw, although some changes are made as the turning on the lather proceeds... the design is the result of a discussion between the wood and myself. The wood tells me what it could be and I tell it what I think I can manage to do.

Each piece of wood brings its unique character to the design process and I bring a background in art and design and knowing what is possible from my turning experience. I don't have any design rules that I follow, but do have a reservoir of vessel shapes that I think work well that I can draw on stored somewhere down in my grey/gray matter, some going back to when I was a potter, and some new ones that I construct as I go along.

 

[Dean Center]

In my shop we sometimes "built" art from artists' sketches.

Anyway, one big project was "art" lighting for the common areas outside the showrooms at Oregon Convention Center in Portland where two symposiums have been held. BTW, the artist did not blow the glass himself and the metal parts were made in my shop.

This situation brings up the concept of an artist having someone produce their art from their design. The debate of CNC versus hand work is minor in comparison. I wondered about the issue with the first artist I worked with. Apparently it's more common than most realize. Architects have been doing it for thousands of years.

My late friend and turning coach Jess Tode was an electrical engineer in his day job. He specialized in designing lighting installations--the one he was most proud of was lighting the Space Shuttle at the Air and Space Museum. About half of his work was with artists who would come to him with ideas and sketches, and he would design the circuitry and enclosures to make them happen. Some were 30' tall. Some were made of handmade glass. He didn't do the job, but there are remarkable light displays on the ceiling of the airport in San Diego showing people swimming along that are just the kind of thing he did. The artists did no physical work on the project, just came up with the idea and he executed it.

I always told him he should get his name on the pieces, since he actually made them. But as Doug says, in the art world, the only thing that counts is the idea or concept or inspiration.

 

[Mike Haydon]

Try to make something unique that stretches the envelope of your skill set. RISK FAILURE.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I read a piece by David Ellsworth saying he puts a chunk of wood in the lathe and let's the wood determine the design (not sure I believe that).

Quoting myself above......

There was some skepticism from other posters about this. I wasn't able to remember where I "read" that. It may have been from this Youtube at about minute 2:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGupR8Lt9E0&t=784s

 

[Perry Hilbert]

A bowl, cups, and most dishes, are concave shapes. Shallow, deep, wide or narrow varies a lot, but all concave. Folks write and debate about the most pleasing shape for a bowl, but not for a cup, dish or beer stein.

I turn very few bowls. and I turn few objects that are not intended to be part of a larger assembly.

But sometimes I look at an object and see dozens of things that can be made from that object.

 

[robo hippy]

Rules???? This makes me think of the knife fight scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid..... "We don't have rules in a knife fight!" Then Paul Newman kicks him in the groin......

robo hippy

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Rules???? This makes me think of the knife fight scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid..... "We don't have rules in a knife fight!" Then Paul Newman kicks him in the groin......

Notice in my post title, I purposely put rules in quotes. Quotes are sometimes used around a word to slightly alter its meaning. That was meant to indicate guiding principles not etched in stone rules.

It seems several posters took issue with rules, maybe the moderators can change the title to guiding principles from rules. I would change it myself except it appears posts over a certain age can no longer be edited by the author.

 

[odie]

Notice in my post title, I purposely put rules in quotes. Quotes are sometimes used around a word to slightly alter its meaning. That was meant to indicate guiding principles not etched in stone rules.

It seems several posters took issue with rules, maybe the moderators can change the title to guiding principles from rules. I would change it myself except it appears posts over a certain age can no longer be edited by the author.

No need to change the title, Doug.....because your point is well made here.

I'll add that we all seem to evolve to have "rules" that apply strictly to ourselves, but don't necessarily have universal application for others.

-o-

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Odie, I do not think of them as rules but preferences. An artist knows all of the preferences imposed by others but knows when to disregard them. In the silly stuff I like to do, you will find balance but never the golden mean.