Russ Braun's Segmenting Project

[Russ Braun]

Welcome to my inaugural follow along project on our AAW Forum. I’ve done a few of these over on the SWT site and find them engaging, entertaining, open for discussion and exchange of ideas. What makes them work best is if our fellow members chime in and join the party! A few rules to remember:
1) Silly is spoken and understood here; feel free to give silly a whirl!
2) I speak knucklehead perfectly so bring it on!!
3) I typically wing my projects at some point. Ideas tend to morph as they rattle around in my dome; I also hear what my fellow members say! Shout it out if you’ve got any thoughts.
It has been said that I am unable to accurately follow a plan…..where there’s smoke, there’s fire, lol!!

Ok, I’ve created a “vanilla” plan on Lloyd Johnson’s SegmentPro software. I use this program for my high count pieces and think it’s the bomb! I’m using it to get an idea on ring/ segment sizes to get started. My plan has now morphed to create different segment count rings. This cut sheet is figured with 16 segment rings….throw that out the window. I’m thinking rings from 144 segments to 9 segments. I’m thinking about something I’ve never done before sooo woohoo!! Try to keep up with my wandering.

WWWWW

I’m finally cutting into some Central American lumber my friend Butch gifted me 17 years ago. I’m not sure what it is, the wood blocks are 3X8 about 18” long. The piece of Wenge is out of a nice wide 5/4 rough-sawn piece. It’s a great-looking board. Step one, glove up! This Wenge wants to hang out with you in the form of splinters.

WWWW

 

[Russ Braun]

I’ve ripped the lumber on my bandsaw. I have a nice crosscut blade on the tablesaw for cutting segments. The bandsaw blade is carbide tipped and made short work of the 3Xs. You see some maple as well….why the heck not!!

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Welcome to my inaugural follow along project on our AAW Forum. I’ve done a few of these over on the SWT site and find them engaging, entertaining, open for discussion and exchange of ideas. What makes them work best is if our fellow members chime in and join the party! A few rules to remember:
1) Silly is spoken and understood here; feel free to give silly a whirl!
2) I speak knucklehead perfectly so bring it on!!
3) I typically wing my projects at some point. Ideas tend to morph as they rattle around in my dome; I also hear what my fellow members say! Shout it out if you’ve got any thoughts.
It has been said that I am unable to accurately follow a plan…..where there’s smoke, there’s fire, lol!!

Does that mean you might need the fire extinguisher…. Again?

 

[Russ Braun]

I’m final sizing everything by running it through the drum sander. I do not spend a lot of time rough cutting this lumber on the bandsaw. The drum sander cleans up all edges and faces.

WWWW

 

[Russ Braun]

Does that mean you might need the fire extinguisher…. Again?

Absolutely Mr Bennett!! My work is always suitable for burning, haha!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Things written in stone:
1) Most rings will be made in 3/4” thickness and then split into thinner rings. When you look at the SegmentPro chart, the chicken scratch has ring numbers paired up in boxes. These are the split rings.
2) I’m going to be making two vessels out of this stock, one mostly Wenge and one mostly the unknown CA (Central American) hardwood. The ring counts and sizing will apply to both.
3) My rule, if you’re making one, why not two!!
4) That straight skinny throat is going to bend, this vessel is going to lean!!

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Looks great so far Russ! Having this thread is really neat!

 

[Tom Gall]

Ok, I’ve created a “vanilla” plan on Lloyd Johnson’s SegmentPro software. I use this program for my high count pieces and think it’s the bomb! I’m using it to get an idea on ring/ segment sizes to get started. My plan has now morphed to create different segment count rings. This cut sheet is figured with 16 segment rings….throw that out the window. I’m thinking rings from 144 segments to 9 segments. I’m thinking about something I’ve never done before sooo woohoo!! Try to keep up with my wandering.

Russ, you've just started and it already looks like it is above my pay grade.

 

[Russ Braun]

Russ, you've just started and it already looks like it is above my pay grade.

I’d best hurry up with this Tom. The more it rattles around in my head, crazier things start building up. Hence the vanilla plan. I’m having fun which is why I do this stuff…the journey is more important than the end result!! If things work well, everything clicks In the end! You heard Jerry Bennett talk about fire extinguishers, that is a common last move of mine, burn baby burn, lol!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Ok, segment cutting time!! I’m starting with my Pete Marken sled that cuts 72 segments. I’m a big fan of Pete’s exacting sleds…I own three of them as Pete will customize any angle I want. I know Pete will retire from the sled business; I’m getting them while he’s hot to trot!!

The paper has my segment size
re-calculation. As explained earlier, Lloyd’s program has provided me ring diameters only and were calc’d at 16 segment rings. Some simple math recalculates the ring for 72 segments.

WWWW

 

[Russ Braun]

I eyeball my stop and cut a test segment. It’s 2 hundredths of an inch too large. The stop I’m using was created by Tom Lohman and I love it. It has two sliding/ lockdown pieces that allow for precise adjustment with a feeler gauge. I quick adjustment and it’s spot on!!

 

[Russ Braun]

74 segments cut. I always cut a couple of extras because going bassackwards is always a time consuming, stop the process, challenge.

 

[Russ Braun]

Typically, freshly cut segments will come with fuzzies created by the cutting process. I take all the segments, stick them in a plastic lidded container and shake em up for about a minute, voila, fuzzies are gone.

 

[Russ Braun]

When I segment traditional rings, I prefer the assembly line process. I am going to cut all my segments now…..well almost all of them. I use ziplock sandwich bags and label them for each ring and wood type.

 

[Russ Braun]

72 segment rings are complete, on to 36 segment rings. This is a different sled. Don’t forget your dust mask when cutting. If you put it on your sled when you take it off, it’s back in your hand before you can cut. If you’re like me, my lungs were well abused in my younger years, no reason not to take care of them now!

 

[Russ Braun]

On to the 18 segment rings. This is a third sled with custom segment counts on it. This has 28 and 9 segment rings.

 

[Russ Braun]

Finally the 9 segment rings!!

 

[Russ Braun]

The aftermath of the segment cutting frenzy. The SawStop is hooked up to an Oneida Supercell System, the accumulative debris on top of the saw is off the blade. It’s a clean, accurate way to cut segments!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Tomorrow, Football….uhhhh I mean gluing rings.
If you’ve noticed that the segment counts are halves of other counts, you would be correct. This is to assist in seam alignment. You might be wondering if there could be some 144 segment count rings in this vessel……possibly but maybe something else, haha!!

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Ok, segment cutting time!! I’m starting with my Pete Marken sled that cuts 72 segments. I’m a big fan of Pete’s exacting sleds…I own three of them as Pete will customize any angle I want. I know Pete will retire from the sled business; I’m getting them while he’s hot to trot!!

The paper has my segment size
re-calculation. As explained earlier, Lloyd’s program has provided me ring diameters only and were calc’d at 16 segment rings. Some simple math recalculates the ring for 72 segments.

I just bought a sled from Pete last weekend! Met him in person-great guy and the quality is incredible on his sleds!

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

I do have a question. Why do you make each ring different segment counts instead of different diameters? I was curious because I have never seen it done that way...

 

[Russ Braun]

Ok, segment cutting time!! I’m starting with my Pete Marken sled that cuts 72 segments. I’m a big fan of Pete’s exacting sleds…I own three of them as Pete will customize any angle I want. I know Pete will retire from the sled business; I’m getting them while he’s hot to trot!!

The paper has my segment size
re-calculation. As explained earlier, Lloyd’s program has provided me ring diameters only and were calc’d at 16 segment rings. Some simple math recalculates the ring for 72 segments.

I just bought a sled from Pete last weekend! Met him in person-great guy and the quality is incredible on his sleds!

You will love the exactness Gabriel. It cuts user error out which is important for us knuckleheads! I have to agree with you, Pete is a top shelf individual!! If you want some real fun, spend time with his better half, Michelle!! She will keep the party going strong!! Woohoo!!

 

[Russ Braun]

I do have a question. Why do you make each ring different segment counts instead of different diameters? I was curious because I have never seen it done that way...

That’s a great question Gabriel! The use of different segment count rings is not uncommon. Going from a 144 segment count ring to 9 segment count rings is a little rarer. I’ve tried this glue up once before and enjoyed the road it lead me down. I am going to add something new to this vessel…why not?? Regarding changing the sizes of the rings, that is happening as well…no reason not to complicate things.

 

[Russ Braun]

An interesting aspect of my glue up is I am splitting rings and using the same size rings above and below the “feature area“ of the vessel. This will tend to create symmetry on the vessel. I might not want that when I start turning the form. I have chosen 1.25“ wide material because it gives me more options on creating the final shape. Another plus for this form is you will never see the interior of this vessel once all the parts go together. Everyone in our group knows the advantage of hidden interiors of vessels, lol!!

For the final recipient of this piece…..I did sand the insides to 800 grit and buffed it using the Beale Buffing System, haha!!

 

[Tom Gall]

Finally the 9 segment rings!!

Question on the jig, Russ. The thickness of the moveable arms look to be about 1½" thick - which could make aligning the marks by eyeballing them a little inaccurate without a vertical mark on the arm. Or, does that white ball have a registration pin for that purpose? Looks like there might holes on the table but they don't look very deep for that purpose. Just curious!

 

[Michael Anderson]

This is great Russ!! Thanks for sharing. Whomever your recipient is, they’re surely getting excited!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Question on the jig, Russ. The thickness of the moveable arms look to be about 1½" thick - which could make aligning the marks by eyeballing them a little inaccurate without a vertical mark on the arm. Or, does that white ball have a registration pin for that purpose? Looks like there might holes on the table but they don't look very deep for that purpose. Just curious!

Tom,
That is a solid question! My high count vessel segments are cut in bundles of 8. With a waste block top and bottom of these bundles, the arms for the sled are another custom feature Pete Marken does for my sleds. Regarding your alignment of the arm question, those are pins under the balls that align the arms/ fences.

As you can see from my post, I cut all of my segments first then move to gluing. My old sled was good for years; I cut a vessel amount of segments and one of the arms moved slightly. Hundreds of segment cut wrong on this knucklehead move!! Just after this exercise, I got my first Pete Marken sled!! I have never had that issue again….thankfully!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Okay, back at it! My wife had a Halloween party for her girlfriends so I was the Cabana Boy today with an endless list of things to do….it’s all good…lol!! I’ve got my segment stash….sorry; ziplock baggies like this bring me back to the good ol days! Being a commercial general contractor, I captured several stainless steel tables over the years; they are nice to have in the shop. This will be my gluing surface.

 

[Russ Braun]

I’m starting with the 72 segment ring first. These rings are key to the development of the feature ring area. They are also the toughest rings to glue up because of their count. Early on, I tried to glue up a 36 segment ring; I barely got it together. The Titebond original has a working time that is limited before it starts setting up. I know Titebond has an “Extend” version of their glue. I don’t have any nor have I used it before. I might go looking for some tomorrow. If you look at my segments, there are some visible Sharpie marks. It’s important to pay attention to these and keep them in order. The huge enemy of segmenters is cumulative error. Paying attention to how segments come off the blade allows for the segmenter to minimize cumulative error such as the saw blade being .001 degrees off of square. Two cuts on each segment could create a sizable error. I take the two types of cuts, put them together in piles and pair them up.

 

[Russ Braun]

I decide to do rub joints on the first pairs. It starts off well but…..after gluing the pairs, I notice the thin end of the segment is opening slightly. It might be the Wenge, it might be the segment is very thin there. I decide to glue the pairs into groups of four.

 

[Russ Braun]

I use squeeze clamps for the groups of fours. It starts getting messy…glue covered fingers kind of messy…ugh! I secured the groups of four together with a rubber band; I can see some light through a few seams…not my best fit. I could have glued this up in half rings but elected to crank down on the band clamp. Things tightened up but the ring is under pressures now so there is a risk of cracking. I will keep it clamped while I work on other rings.

The great thing about follow along projects is I get to share all aspects of the build. The challenges are one of the great parts of these follow alongs. If you like, chime in with suggestions or whatever you have!! Working through challenges is a great learning opportunity for all….including myself!

 

[Brian Gustin]

I use squeeze clamps for the groups of fours. It starts getting messy…glue covered fingers kind of messy…ugh! I secured the groups of four together with a rubber band; I can see some light through a few seams…not my best fit.

If you like, chime in with suggestions or whatever you have!!

Could it maybe go a little easier than clamps if you got a roll of cheap masking tape or butcher's tape , lay some out flat sticky side up and then lay one piece on tape, add glue and start stacking, then wrap tape over top to clamp, which can also help line things up while glue still adjustable? I do that a lot on frame segments (as in picture frames that are not 4-sided, thus unable to use corner clamps..) tape does as well as clamping with fingers (as long as the final wrap of tape sticks to the back of the next to last wrap) and hands-free drying.

 

[Russ Braun]

Could it maybe go a little easier than clamps if you got a roll of cheap masking tape or butcher's tape , lay some out flat sticky side up and then lay one piece on tape, add glue and start stacking, then wrap tape over top to clamp, which can also help line things up while glue still adjustable? I do that a lot on frame segments (as in picture frames that are not 4-sided, thus unable to use corner clamps..) tape does as well as clamping with fingers (as long as the final wrap of tape sticks to the back of the next to last wrap) and hands-free drying.

I’ve seen that done Brian; over the years, I think I’ve even tried it. It didn’t really stick on me for some reason. I tend to get into ruts with tried and true techniques. When those techniques need to be stretched to fit something like 72 segments, the walls to those ruts are amazing tall and steep, lol!! Thanks for that suggestion, it is a worthy suggestion for sure!! I’ve got three more to glue up; I think I will try this first to see how it works.

 

[Russ Braun]

While I’m thinking about it, if you want to find out the correct way to cut segments with a tablesaw sled, visit Jerry Bennett’s website for the details. I think you just google Segmentology and it will pop up. I call Jerry Maestro for good reason; visit his site to learn everything you need to know about segmenting……this is A-Z stuff. The man is brilliant (you owe me $3 Jerry)!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Okay, Brian’s idea translated into reality! I started by getting a bottle of Titebond Extend. First picture is 36 sets on tape, second is 72. That’s a lot of segments when lined up like this. Since both edges of the segment need “buttering”, we have 144 edges to glue. The segments are tight; glue brush isn’t feeling right.

 

[Russ Braun]

Ahhh, stir sticks come in handy again! I love these and bamboo skewers! They are great disposable handy helpers! I ran two beads of extend glue down the top of the segments and started spreading between the segments. Ughh!! I ran two more beads down the row and voila, enough glue to make this technique manageable. Woohoo!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Pic one is the segments pushed together using a rubber band to hold them in place. Second pic is with the band clamp applied. Everything looks tight. I was challenged flattening these segments in the ring. It’s close enough at this point. These will sand down easily prior to splitting the rings.

 

[Russ Braun]

Now that I look at this picture, looks like some of my segments are flipped. The black marks on all the segments should be visible in the picture.

 

[Russ Braun]

Ok, going back into the rut. Working time on this glue is advertised at 15 mins. I’m gluing segments the good ol fashioned way. It took 15 mins to assemble, maybe a couple more mins to get clamped. The glue was still workable at 17 mins. Nice test of techniques; I’m having a blast!

 

[Russ Braun]

I do like my band clamps. They are from McMaster Carr, stainless steel and they have a worm screw that is releasable to allow for quickly changing the size of the clamp. No more needing to screw them bigger or smaller as needed!! The screw device is low profile on the inside so it doesn’t offset a segment like the older clamps. They also join together for your large clamping pleasure needs!!