Owners poll- 18" X 47" lathes

[Fred Lockwood]

Do you work in your shop. OMG that is clean.

Yep, that picture was taken just after the new trolley was installed and I cleaned the whole are prior to that.

I must admit I clean regularly, I have 2 Shopvas and a DC in the shed, 1 Shopvac for wood, 1 for metal.

I know some people enjoy working in a mess, I don't. Must be something to do with having been an industrial chemist most of my life and working in a lab environment.

Each to his own Kevin, but then I don't do this for a living and I like looking after my shed and equipment.:cool2:

 

[Bart Leetch]

Kevin

I think by his own admission Fred hasn't turning very much on his new lathe he's to short to reach the controls & the spindle height is higher then the controls.😱😱😱😀

Hey Fred I like your idea of the Trolley (ahem I seem to be speaking a foreign language although it seems a lot like English.

I plan on making a Trolley like the one I have for my table-saw when I get my new lathe. I think I will design a base for it that makes it easy to stand at & has room for a Trolley to roll underneath.

I am fortunate in that I have a jet mini lathe that I can add the bed extension to if I want to turn spindles.

I already have a 2 HP 3 phase motor hooked up to a VFD on an old Delta lathe that will transfer to my new lathe.

 

[Fred Lockwood]

Well Bart, that's what I like so much about you Seppos, so tolerant of anything not American, maybe that's why there are so many McDonalds golden arches all over the world. Just so that if you do venture outside the gates you can feel at home and enjoy American "cuisine"🙂

I would have thought that "trolley" was a fairly universal spelling, they even know that spelling in Memphis TN (but then again, maybe they speak a "foreign" language there as well?)

Anyway, are you suggesting they speak English in the US of A? Our Pommie friends would disagree with you!😀

 

[Gretch Flo]

clean shop

Yep, that picture was taken just after the new trolley was installed and I cleaned the whole are prior to that.

I must admit I clean regularly, I have 2 Shopvas and a DC in the shed, 1 Shopvac for wood, 1 for metal.

I know some people enjoy working in a mess, I don't. Must be something to do with having been an industrial chemist most of my life and working in a lab environment.

Each to his own Kevin, but then I don't do this for a living and I like looking after my shed and equipment.:cool2:

Fred-how many hours per session do you spend cleaning out that mat alone????😀 Gretch

 

[Bart Leetch]

Well Bart, that's what I like so much about you Seppos, so tolerant of anything not American, maybe that's why there are so many McDonalds golden arches all over the world. Just so that if you do venture outside the gates you can feel at home and enjoy American "cuisine"🙂

I would have thought that "trolley" was a fairly universal spelling, they even know that spelling in Memphis TN (but then again, maybe they speak a "foreign" language there as well?)

Anyway, are you suggesting they speak English in the US of A? Our Pommie friends would disagree with you!😀

It's not so much the spelling but rather the fact we would have called it a mobile tool cabinet or some such name, requiring 3 words to describe or label it when Trolley is much more convenient. We all speak out own brand of English. Some of us just use less words to get out point across.

When I get into a bigger shop I hope to have 3-4 of these Trolleys they are also handy to put parts onto & wheel them from one machine to another as one progresses through the machining needed to make a project. The plus is that they will also store a lot of tools so they will be easier to find.

Here is a little cabinet I built on a torsion box base that hold all my mechanic tools as well as my miter saw mortiser a bench-top drill-press a planer & a spindle sander.

 

[Roger Chandler]

It's not so much the spelling but rather the fact we would have called it a mobile tool cabinet or some such name, requiring 3 words to describe or label it when Trolley is much more convenient. We all speak out own brand of English. Some of us just use less words to get out point across.

When I get into a bigger shop I hope to have 3-4 of these Trolleys they are also handy to put parts onto & wheel them from one machine to another as one progresses through the machining needed to make a project. The plus is that they will also store a lot of tools so they will be easier to find.

Here is a little cabinet I built on a torsion box base that hold all my mechanic tools as well as my miter saw mortiser a bench-top drill-press a planer & a spindle sander.

Really nice stuff there, Bart. I like your storage solutions, and nice setup you've got there!

 

[Roger Chandler]

reliable

I just hope that the electrics on my Hare & Forbes supplied 18x47 don't suffer the same fate, so far so good, fingers crossed.

Fred,

G'day! Nice to hear from you again.....I would not expect that your woodmaster 18/47 would do the same as Kevins Laguna 18/47. I think there is something going on in the QC/inspection of that particular line. Of course, that is speculation on my part, but I have not heard of any Busy Bee or H&F or Grizzly having that problem.

If the "hunt at below 100rpm" is the way the Grizzly unit is programmed to prevent VFD problems or motor burnout, then I am glad they programmed it that way. It has not hindered me in any way, and makes no difference whatsoever in anything I have turned or sanded.

My unit[G0698] has been superb so far, and yesterday I had the opportunity to have a turning session on a PM3520B at our wood turners meeting, and I notice that my Grizzly is just as smooth, and that the handles that lock the tool rest on the banjo are the same on that 3520b as are on my Grizzly G0698.

I expect mine to give me reliable service for many years to come!

 

[Fred Lockwood]

Fred-how many hours per session do you spend cleaning out that mat alone????😀 Gretch

Oh, all of 1 minute! You see it has holes in it, the dust etc falls through it, so you lift it up and run the Shopvac over the floor and hey presto!

I can thoroughly recommend a mat like that, very kind to the legs and feet.

 

[Fred Lockwood]

It's not so much the spelling but rather the fact we would have called it a mobile tool cabinet or some such name, requiring 3 words to describe or label it when Trolley is much more convenient. We all speak out own brand of English. Some of us just use less words to get out point across.

When I get into a bigger shop I hope to have 3-4 of these Trolleys they are also handy to put parts onto & wheel them from one machine to another as one progresses through the machining needed to make a project. The plus is that they will also store a lot of tools so they will be easier to find.

Here is a little cabinet I built on a torsion box base that hold all my mechanic tools as well as my miter saw mortiser a bench-top drill-press a planer & a spindle sander.

Have a few of those sort of cabinets in my shed (here in Oz a shop is somewhere we go to buy things😛).
Made one fore the metal lathe and mill

Quite handy for the tooling and chucks etc

Also making one for my Scheppach Tiger 2500 Wet Grinder (same as the Grizzly one) and the dry grinder

This one is in progress, I have installed the drawers, but still have to do the fronts. This was taken before the drawers were installed.

Oh, and the full title for the "Trolley"?

Obviously the Chinese are heavily influenced by our American friends, but not to the extent that they use Imperial measurements!

 

[Roger Chandler]

Very nice "shed" you have there, Fred! Very nice "trollies" as well. Bart is right about it taking 3 words for us yanks to describe what you Aussies can say with one 😀

You have quite the well thought out layout for the tools with all that cabinetry. Thank you for posting pictures, as we can all get ideas and inspiration from one another.

Well done!

 

[Fred Lockwood]

Don't know what happened to the first picture in my post above, but here it is again

 

[Roger Chandler]

Hollowing operation

Most turners know that hollowing is one of the most stressful operations on a lathe, as it requires a lot of torque, and makes the motor draw on its power curve.

Today I turned a hollow vase out of Bradford Pear, that a neighbor and fellow wood turner gave me. The tree blew over in a storm about 3 months ago, and the wood had a lot of layer separation [cracking in layers. wind shake]

While I am not really proud of this turning because of the cracks and the tool marks on the inside [I don't have a steady rest, so I got centrifugal force rotation that was out of round, and I could not eliminate the tool marks totally] I had to work with the tools and the methods that were available to me, however not ideal. CA glue well may be a wood turners best friend, and this piece of wood has many applications, trying to hold it together, and there was considerable pucker factor with this piece.

The Grizzly G0698 just operated flawlessly. I had 2 significant catches, that were severe enough that it tripped the circuit breaker on the lathe, and it worked great and protected the motor and electronics just like it was designed to do.

 

[Vaughn]

Most turners know that hollowing is one of the most stressful operations on a lathe, as it requires a lot of torque, and makes the motor draw on its power curve...

There is more torque on the lathe turning the outer parts of a 5" bowl than there is turning a 4" hollow form. You, the turner, might feel more torque when making a hollow form, but the torque forces on the lathe are related to the diameter of the blank, not the difficulty of turning it.

I also seriously doubt that a piece that size and thickness was going out of round due to centrifugal force. My guess is the unevenness you were feeling and seeing was due to end grain vs. face grain issues, and not taking light enough cuts at the end. Sandpaper will remove tool marks like that. It just takes patience. 😉

That said, I'm glad you're enjoying your lathe.

 

[Roger Chandler]

There is more torque on the lathe turning the outer parts of a 5" bowl than there is turning a 4" hollow form. You, the turner, might feel more torque when making a hollow form, but the torque forces on the lathe are related to the diameter of the blank, not the difficulty of turning it.

I also seriously doubt that a piece that size and thickness was going out of round due to centrifugal force. My guess is the unevenness you were feeling and seeing was due to end grain vs. face grain issues, and not taking light enough cuts at the end. Sandpaper will remove tool marks like that. It just takes patience. 😉

That said, I'm glad you're enjoying your lathe.

Vaughn,

Not disputing your thinking here, and thanks for the input also. I had another turner speak to me about the cracks that were all around the rim opening up, and the fact I did not have a steady rest of any sort to use, I could not get the hollowing marks out. I used a hunter carbide tip tool and used light cuts, and about 10 passes, and each time the marks would show up on a different area of the inside, like they were moving around on me.

I could only surmise that the oscillation of the rim and upper area would not hold true as it spun, and that was accounting for the tool marks I could not get out.

I have another view of the top that I did not post that shows the hollowing to the bottom of the vase [over 8" deep] and there are cracks and layer separation 360 degrees around the rim area down to about 3 or so inches down. Maybe that would account for the oscillation while rotating. 😕😕😕

The end grain vs. face grain issue you spoke of may be a factor. I can't tell for sure, as this is the first time I have ever turned this particular form, and the Bradford pear for that matter.

Now that I think about the torque, you are probably correct about a bowl shape having more on the outside........I just know that with hand held tools, and the large catches I had, that it really felt like the motor was being strained....I know I was!

 

[MichaelMouse]

You're chasing a red herring speaking of torque lever arms. Matters not how much energy is available, matters how much it requires to remove wood after overcoming friction. That's all the force that's working against the tool, regardless of what's available. Friction changes with the force you apply and the orientation of the grain. Cutting up grain will drag, cutting down will slide.

The pictures may mislead, but if the walls are pretty uniform at the top, as they appear to be, couldn't be much "wobble." The exterior and interior appear to have been worked on the same rotational axis. With the grain running pretty largely along the axis of rotation, I wonder if you weren't forgetting which way was down grain, and pushed the tool inward instead of pulling outward on the flare area. That would certainly do for it. You should have had the Hunter tilted to make a cleaner cut as well. It's the same for hook or ring tools like the Termite. I also like to drag a fingernail ground gouge for the final work if I can get the handle down a bit.

 

[Roger Chandler]

confirmation on my technique

You're chasing a red herring speaking of torque lever arms. Matters not how much energy is available, matters how much it requires to remove wood after overcoming friction. That's all the force that's working against the tool, regardless of what's available. Friction changes with the force you apply and the orientation of the grain. Cutting up grain will drag, cutting down will slide.

The pictures may mislead, but if the walls are pretty uniform at the top, as they appear to be, couldn't be much "wobble." The exterior and interior appear to have been worked on the same rotational axis. With the grain running pretty largely along the axis of rotation, I wonder if you weren't forgetting which way was down grain, and pushed the tool inward instead of pulling outward on the flare area. That would certainly do for it. You should have had the Hunter tilted to make a cleaner cut as well. It's the same for hook or ring tools like the Termite. I also like to drag a fingernail ground gouge for the final work if I can get the handle down a bit.

Micheal,

Thanks for the input here. Some things you stated confirmed what I did correctly. I only made pull cuts on the flare from the center where the bulb starts to the rim area, and I did indeed have the hunter tool tilted to give me a shear cut. [about 45 degrees]

the hollowing was with David Ellsworth hand held tools and there was some back and forth with these as David himself demonstrated to us at his all day demo at our club. I don't know if there was something about this particular form that would make it different as far a technique?

I am at a loss for explanation, but many of you folks here on this and other forums are much more experienced that I am, and I will gladly take advice from those who are more knowledgeable than myself. 🙂

Thanks for chiming in, to help me try to understand why I could not get the hollowing tool marks completely out.

 

[kevinkabby]

something to think about is to possibly use a bowl gouge on the rim as deep as possible. I prefer a 40 degree bevel for cuts like that. You wont get the chatter like you will with a hunter tool or hollowing tool.

In my experience with the 100 dollar hunter tool that collects dust is that it is very touchy and can chatter very easily if you dont keep the angle of cut perfect. It is for sale..lol

 

[Roger Chandler]

something to think about is to possibly use a bowl gouge on the rim as deep as possible. I prefer a 40 degree bevel for cuts like that. You wont get the chatter like you will with a hunter tool or hollowing tool.

In my experience with the 100 dollar hunter tool that collects dust is that it is very touchy and can chatter very easily if you dont keep the angle of cut perfect. It is for sale..lol

Thanks for the tip, Kevin...........I think there is a difference when trying to smooth end grain like in this vase, and face grain in bowl. A shear cut will produce fine curlees on the face grain.....pretty good finish.

Did you get your new headstock from Laguna? Is there a resolution for the VFD issues you had yet? I sure hope so, because your situation is enough to raise the old blood pressure!

 

[MichaelMouse]

the hollowing was with David Ellsworth hand held tools and there was some back and forth with these as David himself demonstrated to us at his all day demo at our club. I don't know if there was something about this particular form that would make it different as far a technique?

The set I bought many years back. Only problem I've run into is heat because I am not maintaining a good clearance angle when using the little tantung scraper. Wants to be relieved five or ten degrees because it's not always possible to maintain a shear. For what it's worth, a pointy grind, where the wings are ground nearly vertical, will shave open long grain like the lip as well as give you a quick way to blind hollow without cramming the cavity with waste. Pulverized waste runs down the flute of the gouge when through a hole, or shavings tumble out when circumstances are open.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/a63b77ab.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/5fa71f2e.jpg

That's curly maple working to a goblet, and the shavings are feathering out on the trailing edge, which means a pretty smooth surface.

 

[Roger Chandler]

The set I bought many years back. Only problem I've run into is heat because I am not maintaining a good clearance angle when using the little tantung scraper. Wants to be relieved five or ten degrees because it's not always possible to maintain a shear. For what it's worth, a pointy grind, where the wings are ground nearly vertical, will shave open long grain like the lip as well as give you a quick way to blind hollow without cramming the cavity with waste. Pulverized waste runs down the flute of the gouge when through a hole, or shavings tumble out when circumstances are open.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/a63b77ab.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/5fa71f2e.jpg

That's curly maple working to a goblet, and the shavings are feathering out on the trailing edge, which means a pretty smooth surface.

Thanks Micheal,

That is a useful tip, and the pics are what make the concept come alive correctly in the mind. I have been wanting to get a couple of new gouges [Thompson] so maybe I could take one of my old ones and put that grind on it, and try your technique out.

 

[kevinkabby]

I recieved the new headstock about 2 weeks ago. I finally went to switch it out yesterday....and it didn't even turn on. Jet 1642 EVS2 here I come.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I recieved the new headstock about 2 weeks ago. I finally went to switch it out yesterday....and it didn't even turn on. Jet 1642 EVS2 here I come.

I wonder how all these things occur to a particular customer? Unexplainable!

Supposition makes one speculate if the vendor[Laguna] is canabalizing parts from units and just putting something out there and hoping it will work. No way to know, but something is causing these repeated problems.

I only know that if it were my company, and my customer, I would get a certified tech to make sure this replacement was right, and try to salvage what customer confidence might be left at this point.

good luck with your efforts to move forward Kevin.

 

[Fred Lockwood]

I recieved the new headstock about 2 weeks ago. I finally went to switch it out yesterday....and it didn't even turn on. Jet 1642 EVS2 here I come.

One could be forgiven for suspecting that Laguna is trying to tell you something Kevin, you certainly are being singled out for treatment!

Let's hope you will have a better experience with the Jet.

 

[William Young]

I recieved the new headstock about 2 weeks ago. I finally went to switch it out yesterday....and it didn't even turn on. Jet 1642 EVS2 here I come.
__________________

Did you plug it in? . . . Sorry , couldn't resist and I know that isn't funny . The devil made me do it . . lol

Aren't Jet and Laguna and their counterparts all made in China . ?

A lemon can happen with anything regardless of what name is on it whether if cost a thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars..

I really think you should have got a whole new lathe for all the troubles you have had because 99% of turners that have the Laguna ones (by various brand names) are more than happy with them (myself included) . I ordered the attachment for turning up to 30" platters etc a couple days ago while it was on sale for $69.00

I wish you the best of luck with the Jet when you get it. You deserve a streak of good luck after what you have been through .

 

[kevinkabby]

3 lemons in a row? Jet is actually made in tiawan. their quality standards are higher than the plant where laguna buys their crap from.

Laguna told me that they had a whole container of lathes they are returning...I don't think we are gettting the whole audience on this website

 

[William Young]

Jet is actually made in tiawan.

Don't know about the bigger Jet lathes but the two smaller Jet lathes I owned previously had made in China printed all over them and they had some quality issues of their own. More than I have had so far with my 18/47 lathe.

 

[Roger Chandler]

3 lemons in a row? Jet is actually made in tiawan. their quality standards are higher than the plant where laguna buys their crap from.

Laguna told me that they had a whole container of lathes they are returning...I don't think we are gettting the whole audience on this website

Wow,

A whole container of lathes? I think about what William spoke of "the majority of owners being happy with their lathes." I wish I could account for the difference with most of us and Kevin's experience. My Grizzly G0698 has really impressed me with its performance and I have not had the first issue of any sort.

other than quality control, or lack of it, on the Laguna lineup, what could possibly cause 3 different units to all be lemons with the Laguna 18/47? This is just confusing........what gives? 😕🙁

 

[William Young]

Wow,

A whole container of lathes?

Sure . . . like we believe that ? ? ? ? ?

Anybody that has bought one of those lathes knows about the big wooden box over a self contained pallet all screwed together with metal bands around them that they are packed in and all the pieces are bolted down inside for safe delivery .
So they unpacked a whole container full of those lathes (how many thousand in a container?) one by one and set them up and plugged them in to check everything out and put them all back into their boxes and sent them all back because they were all defective ?

I think not . .

Does anyone here detect a little teensy weensy tiny bit of sour grapes from the one in a million that had a bad experience and seems to be stretching a few points about it ? 😉

 

[Vaughn]

Sure . . . like we believe that ? ? ? ? ?

Anybody that has bought one of those lathes knows about the big wooden box over a self contained pallet all screwed together with metal bands around them that they are packed in and all the pieces are bolted down inside for safe delivery .
So they unpacked a whole container full of those lathes (how many thousand in a container?) one by one and set them up and plugged them in to check everything out and put them all back into their boxes and sent them all back because they were all defective ?

I think not . .

Does anyone here detect a little teensy weensy tiny bit of sour grapes from the one in a million that had a bad experience and seems to be stretching a few points about it ? 😉

I'd guess a standard 40' container would hold a fair number of lathes on pallets, but nowhere near a thousand. Maybe a dozen or so. Based on reports I've seen on the Laguna lathe from others, it's conceivable that a dozen or more have been returned to Laguna by unhappy customers.

The only hyperbole I'm seeing is yours. (Thousands of lathes in a container? One in a million that had a bad experience? Math much?) 🙄

 

[William Young]

Thanks for the link on the capacity of the containers.

I'd guess a standard 40' container would hold a fair number of lathes on pallets, but nowhere near a thousand. Maybe a dozen or so.

.

I realize I overstated on that part. They just looked big to me and I don't know if they pack them from the floor to the ceiling in there or just a few layers deep. .. Certainly way more than a dozen or so . . .
Oh well , who would ever believe they would uncrate a whole container full of them and check every one out and send them all back.
Well . . . I guess some would believe it. 😉

 

[kevinkabby]

Fred

I am past being mad about this peice of shit brand lathe. I am giving you verbatum what "Jason" from laguna told me. Originally my salesman told me that they only had a one in ten problem ratio with the lathes...I thought that was alot. That is 10 % if you need help with the math.

 

[Chuck Beland]

A good friend of mine had all the same problems that Kevin is having. They finally refunded his money & he bought a Jet 1642 EVS I was thinking of getting the Laguna but instead got the same Jet 1642 EVS all I can say is that I love the Jet. Since I have had excellent luck with my Jet mini I got it's big brother.

Kevin,
Sorry about all the problems make them give you a total refund then get a Jet or PM.

 

[kevinkabby]

You need parts...2 days. Plus the warantee

 

[Mark Warden]

96 Lathes in a standard container:cool2:

 

[Roger Chandler]

What we have learned from all the posts, so far...

So far after reviewing the postings we have come to this understanding of the overall lineup of 18/47 lathes.

1. Most owners are satisfied with theirs, some very much so.
2. The line that has been problematic is the Laguna line.
3.Laguna seems to have customer service issues.
4. Grizzly, Busy Bee and Hare & Forbes owners have had much better experience with their versions.
5. We cannot account for the differences, but at least I suspect there is a quality control and inspection issue with Laguna.......that is where my question comes down, and I don't have any explanation for the differences.

What is your take? How do you account for the differences?

At some point we will allow this thread to diminish [to the delight of some, I am sure 😀] but we need to try and understand the issues before the thread goes away........

Thanks to all who have participated, and your posts have helped a lot of folks!

 

[Vaughn]

...Oh well , who would ever believe they would uncrate a whole container full of them and check every one out and send them all back.
Well . . . I guess some would believe it. 😉

Who said Laguna uncrated them, checked them out and returned them? The implication in the previous posts was that they had been returned by customers. Try to keep up.

96 Lathes in a standard container:cool2:

Where'd you get that figure? Based on the dimensions in the Grizzly catalog, that lathe (L x H x W) takes up a bit over 42 cubic feet. The 40' container holds 2390 cubic feet. At the most, that would be 57 lathes (rounding up the decimal), and that would only happen if the lathe pallets were stacked and happened to exactly fit into the interior space of the container. 😎

 

[Roger Chandler]

Dye-ing on the 18/47

I thought I would post of a dyed piece I was challenged to do by Steve Schlumpf, on SMC.

Rit clothes dye mixed with denatured alcohol, and in these pics the finish is newly wet, and is rattle can lacquer, my first time using it. The wet finish does not make for a good representation of the piece, and I will have to sand it back and reapply for final results.

The Grizzly G0698 was just superb in all aspects of this, including the hollowing. After having turned on 2 different PM3520b's, and watching a number of Jet 16/42's I am soooooo pleased with my Grizzly G0698 18/47! It is just a smooth as the Jet and PM, and has features that match up well with them,
2hp, reversing, VFD, easy belt change for speed ranges, solidly locking banjo, tool rest , and tail stock. Quill travel of 4-3/8 inches. So far my G0698 has been superb! 🙂

Sorry about the pics.....there was an internal server error message, and it could not process the request....something on the servers is not working properly.

 

[Mark Warden]

Your correct if they would ship them assembled but they don't. The shipping size is 23 cf give or take so they would fit just fine they have decking in the containers so stacking is not a problem. The weight becomes the issue 59400 lbs 98 lathes@ 547 lbs 53606 lbs 1000 lbs decking so yes I was wrong you could get 8 more lathes on thats what I get for doing it in my head.


Where'd you get that figure? Based on the dimensions in the Grizzly catalog, that lathe (L x H x W) takes up a bit over 42 cubic feet. The 40' container holds 2390 cubic feet. At the most, that would be 57 lathes (rounding up the decimal), and that would only happen if the lathe pallets were stacked and happened to exactly fit into the interior space of the container. 😎[/QUOTE]

 

[Vaughn]

Your correct if they would ship them assembled but they don't. The shipping size is 23 cf give or take so they would fit just fine they have decking in the containers so stacking is not a problem. The weight becomes the issue 59400 lbs 98 lathes@ 547 lbs 53606 lbs 1000 lbs decking so yes I was wrong you could get 8 more lathes on thats what I get for doing it in my head.


Where'd you get that figure? Based on the dimensions in the Grizzly catalog, that lathe (L x H x W) takes up a bit over 42 cubic feet. The 40' container holds 2390 cubic feet. At the most, that would be 57 lathes (rounding up the decimal), and that would only happen if the lathe pallets were stacked and happened to exactly fit into the interior space of the container. 😎

Thanks for the correction and clarification. 😉

 

[William Young]

Thanks for the correction and clarification. 😉

Same here .
When I see those containers on rail cars on the numerous trains that go through here I had imagined that they would hold a lot more . They looks so big sitting up on those flat deck cars and quite often they are double stacked one on top of each other.

Thanks for taking the time to figure out dimensions and weight etc.