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What's in a Lathe?

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I was reading a discussion about today's lathes and lathes of old. For starters, let me provide context.

There are many classes of lathe, but for this discussion, let's use these three:
  1. Trash lathes. You know who they are and we don't use these.
  2. Good midi lathes. These are the 14-20" swing lathes by reputable manufacturers like Rikon, Jet, Laguna, Powermatic, and so on.
    1. EDIT: I included up to 20" in the midis, but as Bill B pointed out, the 18 and 20" lathes are probably considered full-size lathes.
  3. Top end full-sized lathes. Robust, OneWay, et al.
I started with a #1. It is a Wen 14x20. It's a decent lathe for $600 but quickly outgrown. Then I moved to #2 when I bought my Rikon 70-1824.

My experience is limited to exactly two lathes, so I depend on you all. I have two questions.
  1. The Powermatic 3520(a,b,c) is very popular. But I wonder, is that just legacy or is it justified today when compared to other manufacturers? Is the Powermatic better than the Jet, Laguna, or Rikon of the same size?
  2. Taking that same question to the next level, are the Robust and OneWay lathes that much better than, say, the Powermatic? Put another way, are the top end lathes really $3-4,000 BETTER than the Powermatic, et al?
It would be great if you could leave your emotions out of your answers. You may love Powermatic, Robust, etc., but I'm asking for objective feedback, not fanboy opinions.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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My first lathe was an old 4 speed Atlas with a 1/2 hp motor. I upgraded it with a 1 hp motor, but people at the local Saturday Market kept asking for slightly bigger bowls. I bit the bullet and bought a 3520A, which to date was my favorite lathe of the PM models. I bought it because of the sliding headstock. That interprets as you have a short bed lathe for bowl turning, and a long bed lathe for spindles. Mostly that was because the spindle mount was directly on the headstock tower, and there was no "extended" cone of any sort on it. I never used the tailstock, mostly because there was no need. With the B and C models, they changed the speed ranges. Shut off was up to 50 rpm from the older maybe 10 to 15 rpm. The low speed range went down to 1200, which was too slow for me on 6 to 8 inch bowl sizes, while the old 1500 was fine. The A did not like to core on the high speed range. I am not a fan of changing speeds just to core. My next lathe was an American Beauty, one of the first ones with 3 speed ranges and 3hp motor. I figured that I needed the extra power. Not positive, but I think the Oneway lathes have 3 speeds, and the Vicmark lathes have 3 speeds also. I do prefer the 3 speed range. I use the slow range for sanding. I use the mid range for all bowl turning since it has enough torque for coring and speeds high enough for any bowl, and almost high enough for any spindle turning I do. I did have Brent help me adjust the speed range so it would go down slow enough for sanding my warped bowls, which is in that 15rpm range. He cautioned me to make sure the motor was not over heating. It ran cooler when I sand than it does when I turn, in part because when sanding, it is only acting as a brake, and when I turn, I make that sucker work! Right away, after I sold my PM, I Noticed that I was getting vibration when turning any bowl over about 8 to 10 inches. I figure this is due to the bell housing on the headstock spindle, which puts your mounting point out farther off of the headstock tower. If I engage the tailstock, the vibration goes away. I now have a Vicmark 240, which is the one with the pivoting headstock. To me, this is pivoting headstock done the way I would do it if I made one. It has 3 speed ranges, and a 2hp motor, which is actually more than enough power. I purchased it out of curiosity. I do not like turning bowls on a long bed lathe, which requires you to extend your arms out away from your body, and/or lean over the lathe bed, which is hard on your back. I wanted to find out why turners like Mike Mahoney, Stuart Batty, Glenn Lucas, and a few others preferred the Vicmark lathes. My guess is the headstock tower design. The sides of the tower actually slope back towards the center a little bit, which puts the mounting point in closer to the mid point of the tower rather than the cone shapes that are so popular now days. Right off, I noticed the reduction of vibration on smaller bowls. There is a bit on larger bowls, like 14 inch diameter. I don't turn bigger than that any more because those sizes just don't sell for me. I figure the vibration I get is due to size, and not having the tailstock engaged, and the pivoting headstock. I have only turned on a Vicmark 300 a couple of times, and as I said before I just don't like turning bowls on long bed lathes because it doesn't fit my style, which developed on short bed lathes.

Now, Stuart Batty likes to talk a lot about how sliding headstock lathes are not so good due to various instabilities from the sliding headstock mechanisms. For sure, some are better than others. Vibration issues mostly. These can be caused by several things I think Stuart has not considered. For sure, the farther you extend away from the headstock tower, the more vibration issues you are going to have. For bowls, the vibration goes away if you engage the tailstock. If you don't use the tailstock, which most production turners don't because it is an extra step, then you get more vibration which all the bell housings and cones on the headstock towers cause by cantilevering the piece out farther off of the headstock tower. Note here, this is why steady rests are used on hollow forms which always seem to extend out farther off the headstock tower. Of the sliding headstock lathes I have used, Jet, PM, Robust, they all work just fine. I have turned on a Laguna, but don't really remember it well, other than some vibration issues because I don't use the tailstock. One other difference on the headstock towers is the pressure plate on the bottom. If it is the same plate as is on the tailstock and banjo, I would say NEVER buy a lathe like that. The headstock tower needs to be locked down tight. My PM had a cast iron plate on the one I got, and it broke. They replaced it with a 4 by 6 plate which locked the tower down tight enough. My Robust had a plate the size of the headstock tower, which if I was to build my own lathe, I would make it that way. A friend got a Shop Fox lathe, and it had the same pressure plate on the bottom of all 3 pieces, and he ended up sending it back.

There are lots of discussions about the differences between long bed lathes concerning vibration of steel vs cast iron. With my Robust, only thing of note was that it made different noises than the PM or Vicmark made. No vibration issues caused by sliding the headstock around. Only turned on a Oneway a couple of times, and again no vibration issues that I noted.

I see a lot of turners who have sliding headstock lathes that never use the sliding mechanism, and will turn their bowls on the long bed variation. Drives me crazy! There are, as near as I can tell, 2 basic "styles" of turning bowls. One is mechanics for long bed lathes, and the other is mechanics for short bed lathes. I prefer the short bed style for my turnings....

robo hippy
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
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Traverse City, MI
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I was reading a discussion about today's lathes and lathes of old. For starters, let me provide context.

There are many classes of lathe, but for this discussion, let's use these three:
  1. Trash lathes. You know who they are and we don't use these.
  2. Good midi lathes. These are the 14-20" swing lathes by reputable manufacturers like Rikon, Jet, Laguna, Powermatic, and so on.
  3. Top end full-sized lathes. Robust, OneWay, et al.
I started with a #1. It is a Wen 14x20. It's a decent lathe for $600 but quickly outgrown. Then I moved to #2 when I bought my Rikon 70-1824.

My experience is limited to exactly two lathes, so I depend on you all. I have two questions.
  1. The Powermatic 3520(a,b,c) is very popular. But I wonder, is that just legacy or is it justified today when compared to other manufacturers? Is the Powermatic better than the Jet, Laguna, or Rikon of the same size?
  2. Taking that same question to the next level, are the Robust and OneWay lathes that much better than, say, the Powermatic? Put another way, are the top end lathes really $3-4,000 BETTER than the Powermatic, et al?
It would be great if you could leave your emotions out of your answers. You may love Powermatic, Robust, etc., but I'm asking for objective feedback, not fanboy opinions.
Hi Kent! Great questions, so glad you are doing your homework before purchasing a lathe!
Let me be as objective as possible. I've travelled all over the country and demonstrated/turned on probably every lathe known.
Bottom line - You get what you pay for!
It wasn't until I owned a Robust Lathe, that I completely understood the engineering and quality of a Robust.
-Made in the USA
-Quick and responsive customer support
-7 year warranty
-Stainless Steel construction
-Shock assisted tilt away tail stock
The list goes on and on....
The Robust Lathes ARE completely worth the price tag!
 
Joined
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Columbia, TN
My first lathe was an old 4 speed Atlas with a 1/2 hp motor. I upgraded it with a 1 hp motor, but people at the local Saturday Market kept asking for slightly bigger bowls. I bit the bullet and bought a 3520A, which to date was my favorite lathe of the PM models. I bought it because of the sliding headstock. That interprets as you have a short bed lathe for bowl turning, and a long bed lathe for spindles. Mostly that was because the spindle mount was directly on the headstock tower, and there was no "extended" cone of any sort on it. I never used the tailstock, mostly because there was no need. With the B and C models, they changed the speed ranges. Shut off was up to 50 rpm from the older maybe 10 to 15 rpm. The low speed range went down to 1200, which was too slow for me on 6 to 8 inch bowl sizes, while the old 1500 was fine. The A did not like to core on the high speed range. I am not a fan of changing speeds just to core. My next lathe was an American Beauty, one of the first ones with 3 speed ranges and 3hp motor. I figured that I needed the extra power. Not positive, but I think the Oneway lathes have 3 speeds, and the Vicmark lathes have 3 speeds also. I do prefer the 3 speed range. I use the slow range for sanding. I use the mid range for all bowl turning since it has enough torque for coring and speeds high enough for any bowl, and almost high enough for any spindle turning I do. I did have Brent help me adjust the speed range so it would go down slow enough for sanding my warped bowls, which is in that 15rpm range. He cautioned me to make sure the motor was not over heating. It ran cooler when I sand than it does when I turn, in part because when sanding, it is only acting as a brake, and when I turn, I make that sucker work! Right away, after I sold my PM, I Noticed that I was getting vibration when turning any bowl over about 8 to 10 inches. I figure this is due to the bell housing on the headstock spindle, which puts your mounting point out farther off of the headstock tower. If I engage the tailstock, the vibration goes away. I now have a Vicmark 240, which is the one with the pivoting headstock. To me, this is pivoting headstock done the way I would do it if I made one. It has 3 speed ranges, and a 2hp motor, which is actually more than enough power. I purchased it out of curiosity. I do not like turning bowls on a long bed lathe, which requires you to extend your arms out away from your body, and/or lean over the lathe bed, which is hard on your back. I wanted to find out why turners like Mike Mahoney, Stuart Batty, Glenn Lucas, and a few others preferred the Vicmark lathes. My guess is the headstock tower design. The sides of the tower actually slope back towards the center a little bit, which puts the mounting point in closer to the mid point of the tower rather than the cone shapes that are so popular now days. Right off, I noticed the reduction of vibration on smaller bowls. There is a bit on larger bowls, like 14 inch diameter. I don't turn bigger than that any more because those sizes just don't sell for me. I figure the vibration I get is due to size, and not having the tailstock engaged, and the pivoting headstock. I have only turned on a Vicmark 300 a couple of times, and as I said before I just don't like turning bowls on long bed lathes because it doesn't fit my style, which developed on short bed lathes.

Now, Stuart Batty likes to talk a lot about how sliding headstock lathes are not so good due to various instabilities from the sliding headstock mechanisms. For sure, some are better than others. Vibration issues mostly. These can be caused by several things I think Stuart has not considered. For sure, the farther you extend away from the headstock tower, the more vibration issues you are going to have. For bowls, the vibration goes away if you engage the tailstock. If you don't use the tailstock, which most production turners don't because it is an extra step, then you get more vibration which all the bell housings and cones on the headstock towers cause by cantilevering the piece out farther off of the headstock tower. Note here, this is why steady rests are used on hollow forms which always seem to extend out farther off the headstock tower. Of the sliding headstock lathes I have used, Jet, PM, Robust, they all work just fine. I have turned on a Laguna, but don't really remember it well, other than some vibration issues because I don't use the tailstock. One other difference on the headstock towers is the pressure plate on the bottom. If it is the same plate as is on the tailstock and banjo, I would say NEVER buy a lathe like that. The headstock tower needs to be locked down tight. My PM had a cast iron plate on the one I got, and it broke. They replaced it with a 4 by 6 plate which locked the tower down tight enough. My Robust had a plate the size of the headstock tower, which if I was to build my own lathe, I would make it that way. A friend got a Shop Fox lathe, and it had the same pressure plate on the bottom of all 3 pieces, and he ended up sending it back.

There are lots of discussions about the differences between long bed lathes concerning vibration of steel vs cast iron. With my Robust, only thing of note was that it made different noises than the PM or Vicmark made. No vibration issues caused by sliding the headstock around. Only turned on a Oneway a couple of times, and again no vibration issues that I noted.

I see a lot of turners who have sliding headstock lathes that never use the sliding mechanism, and will turn their bowls on the long bed variation. Drives me crazy! There are, as near as I can tell, 2 basic "styles" of turning bowls. One is mechanics for long bed lathes, and the other is mechanics for short bed lathes. I prefer the short bed style for my turnings....

robo hippy

Good observations, Reed. I don't turn with my headstock rotated as much as I should.
 
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Powermatic lathes were a class about Jet in capacity, horsepower and weight. The Powermatic was always considered more rigid. The highest percentage of Jet's sold were 1 1/2hp.
The first time I heard a Oneway lathe run in 1997, I knew I would be buying one. I had not seen a Powermatic yet, not sure they were at dealers yet. I had not heard such a quiet machine. It had a completely different bearing set up, the shafts were way bigger than I had seen, and that bed design was light years ahead of everything. Curiously, Robust also went that direction with bed design, Jet went that way with the live center, etc...
"Better" is a relative term. Is a Mercedes a BETTER car than a Ford? Is a Festool router BETTER than a Ryobi? You can always get the same result with something cheaper, but it's the owner's option how they want to get to the end result. For price? I've paid for mine at least twice over. So it made money for me, the Oneway was a profit machine.
 
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Hi Kent! Great questions, so glad you are doing your homework before purchasing a lathe!
Let me be as objective as possible. I've travelled all over the country and demonstrated/turned on probably every lathe known.
Bottom line - You get what you pay for!
It wasn't until I owned a Robust Lathe, that I completely understood the engineering and quality of a Robust.
-Made in the USA
-Quick and responsive customer support
-7 year warranty
-Stainless Steel construction
-Shock assisted tilt away tail stock
The list goes on and on....
The Robust Lathes ARE completely worth the price tag!

I actually bought a Rikon earlier this year. I wouldn't have considered a Robust or OneWay at this stage simply due to price. This question is more out of curiosity, and also for future consideration if I someday want to buy the Maybach of lathes. One day I will wake up and decide it's time to treat myself and buy a Robust. ;-)
 
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Kent, I might add Harvey's to your list, I usually turn on a laguna 18/36 and it mostly"just fine". I was recently turning on a Harvey T60 and an American Beauty, and while I loved turning on the Robust a lot, I was delightfully surprised by how much I loved the $4k Harvey.
 
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Kent, I might add Harvey's to your list, I usually turn on a laguna 18/36 and it mostly"just fine". I was recently turning on a Harvey T60 and an American Beauty, and while I loved turning on the Robust a lot, I was delightfully surprised by how much I loved the $4k Harvey.

I did mean to mention Harvey. If I were spending $4-5,000 today, I'd be looking at the Harvey. When I was in the market, their T40 was too small and the T60 was more money than I wanted to spend. Plus, at the time the shipping was $600 on the Harvey. They are doing free shipping offers now, I see.

I think they had a T50 once upon a time.
 
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Kent, I might add Harvey's to your list, I usually turn on a laguna 18/36 and it mostly"just fine". I was recently turning on a Harvey T60 and an American Beauty, and while I loved turning on the Robust a lot, I was delightfully surprised by how much I loved the $4k Harvey.
You don't have any reservation about their controller and stepper motor longevity? The Oneway and Robust have a readily available drive system hardware. That Harvey looks like it has a lot of proprietary hardware/software.
 
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My lathe a lot of people would put in the junk lathe category but I don't feel that way.

Grizzly G0766

3 hp 22 inch swing by 42inch between centers which I haven't been able to fit anything that long by the time you use a drive and a live center. People used to give them a bad report for being rough cast and sharp edges etc. I bought mine in 2017 I believe and those kind of issues had been fixed by then.

I've never had a major problem with mine other than operator error which I added more weight for the times when the operator gets stupid again. The lathe itself is over 500 pounds and I added another 300 under it. It's the best bang for the buck I felt at the time and still do.
 
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My 2 cents, and probably worth even less with inflation...I started on a Laguna 12/16 Midi lathe during the pandemic shutdown summer of '20 because that's what the turner at Woodcraft advised me to get. I learned a lot on that little lathe, but quickly outgrew it and certainly tired of its constant electrical issues and my adventures with their disastrous customer service. After doing a ton of research, I decided to go with the PM 3520C when my finances and the annual Black Friday sale coincided a couple of years ago. (This after seriously considering the Jet 16/40 and the bigger Rikons). I sold the Laguna and all my 1x8TPI accessories for a good price to help defray the cost, and never looked back. Of course getting geared up again for 1.25x8TPI probably cost as much as the lathe, but I considered it necessary for turning my now much larger bowls and platters.

Now I have turned on a variety of One-Ways and Robusts in various classes and friends' shops, and certainly they are great lathes. But when I took Matt Monaco's class early this summer at Arrowmont, I claimed one of the 3520C's just so I would have one less variable to learn when I wanted to just focus like a laser on grinding and turning skills. I didn't feel envious at all over my classmates on the Robusts and VicMarks. We were all just so focused on turning and learning, all on great lathes.

Honestly, this is a totally subjective opinion, but my perfect lathe might have the PM cast-iron bed with sliding head-stock (on which I just rough-turned a big bradford pear bowl down at the end without issue), paired with the Robust 3hp motor upgrade and of course the famous Robust tilt-away tail-stock (along with maybe the rigidity of the One-Way tubular frame). The PM tail-stock swing away certainly works, but it is much more fiddly and cumbersome to muscle around-one adjusts. Sue me, but I love the cast-iron bed and ways, and enjoy my post-turning ritual of the careful cleanup and re-waxing after turning green wood. And I really appreciate the digital read-out. Robust owners say it's unnecessary and to just go by feel, but why can't you do both?

Honestly, I border on idol worship with the damn thing, but I doubt I will ever want or need another lathe. Just one man's opinion (and you know what they say about opinions!). If I had the 4 or 5k extra for a Robust, I would probably just spend it on other stuff I need (vacum chuck, a coring system and another grinder currently). I have found that if you ask a dozen turners the same question, you will likely get 10 very different answers, all valid for them.

Anyway, interesting discussion, Kent!
 
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As someone that owns a 3520B but has gotten to turn on a Robust American Beauty during several weeks at Arrowmont, I'd say that for the vast majority of people the answer to the question "Is a Robust really worth $4k more than a Powermatic?" is going to be "no" if we're being honest. (I can do a lot of free anti-aging exercise with the tailstock and wiping and waxing of cast iron ways for $4k).

Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful machines and I'd love to have my dollars stay here instead of going to China, but on the other hand I've never felt limited by my Powermatic after coming back from one of those weeks on an AB. I hope to one day ascend to the financial level of abundance of $4k more not really mattering combined with having my workshop populated with all the other things I want that the $4k could be put towards instead, but I'm not there quite yet...😄On the other hand, there is something cool about being able to get the absolute best of something for around $10k. It's cheaper than getting into motorcycles for example.

A lot more compelling to me is the question "Is a Vicmarc worth $2k than a Powermatic?" That's probably the route I'd go if I were to upgrade.

In terms of the other question about is Powermatic worth more than some of the bigger Rikons, Laguna etc., that is also somewhat debateable. There were a lot fewer choices around when I bought mine over ten years ago, and nowadays I'd be more hard pressed to choose. I do think the Powermatic has sheer weight (726 lbs, 3520C) going for it over some of the others (Rikon 70-3040, 600 lbs, Laguna 2436, 532 lbs), and that is meaningful, both in terms of the weight itself, and the beefiness of the castings. I like a lot of what Rikon is up to, it indicates they have done some talking to turners and figuring out what we'd like to see.
 
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You don't have any reservation about their controller and stepper motor longevity? The Oneway and Robust have a readily available drive system hardware. That Harvey looks like it has a lot of proprietary hardware/software.

I didn't dig that deep, to be honest. But I have to believe that the manufacturer would have gone through all the R&D and testing needed to prove out their technology. The servo motor will either be a fad, or the technology that takes us into the next generation of lathes.
 
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I didn't dig that deep, to be honest. But I have to believe that the manufacturer would have gone through all the R&D and testing needed to prove out their technology. The servo motor will either be a fad, or the technology that takes us into the next generation of lathes.
Chinese manufacturing has never been known for it's R&D, but much more for their reverse engineering.. Maybe that's changed. I was asking Stan
 
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My lathe a lot of people would put in the junk lathe category but I don't feel that way.

Grizzly G0766

3 hp 22 inch swing by 42inch between centers which I haven't been able to fit anything that long by the time you use a drive and a live center. People used to give them a bad report for being rough cast and sharp edges etc. I bought mine in 2017 I believe and those kind of issues had been fixed by then.

I've never had a major problem with mine other than operator error which I added more weight for the times when the operator gets stupid again. The lathe itself is over 500 pounds and I added another 300 under it. It's the best bang for the buck I felt at the time and still do.

I don't know a lot about Grizzly, but my gut says that their low-end lathes aren't well regarded, but their bigger lathes are.
 
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Chinese manufacturing has never been known for it's R&D, but much more for their reverse engineering.. Maybe that's changed. I was asking Stan

You are 100% correct. The Chinese have invented next to nothing in computer technology. They simply copy and make things cheaper and, in some cases, better. I saw that recently on a documentary of some sort.
 
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As someone that owns a 3520B but has gotten to turn on a Robust American Beauty during several weeks at Arrowmont, I'd say that for the vast majority of people the answer to the question "Is a Robust really worth $4k more than a Powermatic?" is going to be "no" if we're being honest. (I can do a lot of free anti-aging exercise with the tailstock and wiping and waxing of cast iron ways for $4k).

Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful machines and I'd love to have my dollars stay here instead of going to China, but on the other hand I've never felt limited by my Powermatic after coming back from one of those weeks on an AB. I hope to one day ascend to the financial level of abundance of $4k more not really mattering combined with having my workshop populated with all the other things I want that the $4k could be put towards instead, but I'm not there quite yet...😄On the other hand, there is something cool about being able to get the absolute best of something for around $10k. It's cheaper than getting into motorcycles for example.

A lot more compelling to me is the question "Is a Vicmarc worth $2k than a Powermatic?" That's probably the route I'd go if I were to upgrade.

In terms of the other question about is Powermatic worth more than some of the bigger Rikons, Laguna etc., that is also somewhat debateable. There were a lot fewer choices around when I bought mine over ten years ago, and nowadays I'd be more hard pressed to choose. I do think the Powermatic has sheer weight (726 lbs, 3520C) going for it over some of the others (Rikon 70-3040, 600 lbs, Laguna 2436, 532 lbs), and that is meaningful, both in terms of the weight itself, and the beefiness of the castings. I like a lot of what Rikon is up to, it indicates they have done some talking to turners and figuring out what we'd like to see.

You make a lot of great points, Chris. Your Arrowmont experience is meaningful (I hope to go to Arrowmont some time next year). We all have a price point for equipment, influenced by where we are in our turning journeys and how much money we have available. My price point for my first real lathe was $3k, not because I couldn't afford more, but I couldn't in my mind justify more. Later on it might be different.
 
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My understanding about the servo motor was that it wasn't some sort of crazy new technology- it's used in a lot of other industrial applications, just new to being used on a wood lathe. There are enough out there in other applications that I can't imagine that troubleshooting will be any more of a problem than the first time someone had to figure out how to reprogram a non-OEM Delta inverter to replace one on a VFD lathe. (Which is to say it will probably be quite annoying and frustrating and require some research for those first people needing to fix it, but doable).
 
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I can't speak to servo motors, but we've been using steppers in the gaming industry for decades. In fact, the traditional slot machine with spinning reels (as opposed to video reels) are called steppers within the industry.
 
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You make a lot of great points, Chris. Your Arrowmont experience is meaningful (I hope to go to Arrowmont some time next year). We all have a price point for equipment, influenced by where we are in our turning journeys and how much money we have available. My price point for my first real lathe was $3k, not because I couldn't afford more, but I couldn't in my mind justify more. Later on it might be different.

I think that's the key here- being able to justify it. If my current level of production and sales of work continues (and hopefully improves) for another year or two, I think I could justify the $2k more than Powermatic for a Vicmarc or Oneway. It's hard for me to see $2k more on top of the first $2k more for a Robust, because a lot of the selling points are creature comforts I don't need like the gas-assist tail stock, and it's hard for me to imagine it is in any way more durable than Vicmarc, those things are built like a tank.

I'd probably steer clear of Oneway just because of their stubborn refusal to make an 1 1/4" x 8 tpi spindle (you truly can only get it one way lol), but I do like everything else about their build quality.
 
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My first lathe was a $600 Grizzly my wife bought me to aid in my hobby of building QueenAnne furniture. Lowest speed was 600 rpm’s. I was using it to turn table legs and columns that I split to use in the furniture. Long story short I turned a bowl one day and fell in love with bowl turning. Had no idea what I was doing but knew this was what I wanted to do.
It was a decent lathe if you always turned balanced wood😁!
I finally decided to retire early but wanted to replace the lathe and several pieces of older equipment first. I had looked at Rikon, Jet, and Powermatic and read as much as I could about the lathes and talked to some turners at the store I purchased it from. I went with the Powermatic 3520c and have been very pleased with its performance.
I had never heard of Oneway, Robust, or Vicmarc and not sure I would have spent the money for one of those at the time.
So I’ve only turned on a $600 Grizzly and a $3700 (now $5400) Powermatic but it is a night and day difference. I would like to purchase another lathe sometime in the future and also keep the Powermatic. A Robust American Beauty is at the top of my list but would like to turn on all three before deciding, if that time comes.
I think between the #2 and #3 it’s what you personally want and can afford. Your skill, craftsmanship, and design is more important and can be accomplished with either #2 or #3.
 
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Lathes say a lot about human nature. I think of them as Ford vs Chevy or Mercedes vs Lexus kind of thing. There's a lot of flaunting what you can afford and there's a lot of real cheapskates like me that don't want to spend a dime more than they have too. But in the end what really matters is that the lathes comes to life when you hit the start button. Watch a youtube video of Mike Mahoney coring oak bowls on one of his many Vicmarcs or watch one of those videos of some 80 year old Asian woman cranking out tea bowls on a machine that would scare the hell out of me. If you have the drive or desire to create wood turned art you find a way.
 
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I still have reservations about fabricated lathes like OneWay and Robust. I wonder if the choice to make a lathe by welding lots of small bits of metal together is more of a commercial decision? Cast Iron machines have lasted the test of time and is still the material of choice for most lathe manufacturers.
I’ve only briefly seen Powermatic, Jet and OneWay lathes in the flesh. They are more rare in the UK these days. I’d have a Powermatic or a Jet in preference to the OneWay any day. Good luck with your choice.

Edit: I’ve never understood the decision to add “styling” to some modern lathe designs? There are some pretty strange choices made by manufacturers. The larger Powermatic lathe heads are just plain boxes and look very practical to me, very similar in fact to Metalwork lathes I’ve used. Having a large flat top with a rubber mat on the top is extremely handy. Try placing a chuck key on a OneWay or Robust head.
 
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For me it is like this Mini lathes are in the 8" to 10" range. The Midi lathes are in the 12" to 15" range and full sized lathes are 16" to 25" or bigger. The Mini and Midi usually have short beds and full size usually have long beds. My first lathe back in about 2000 was a Craftsman 15" variable speed lathe as that was all I was aware of. The first thing I did was chuck up a 35 pound hunk of wood and with a roughing gouge in hand turned it on. Did not know it was on full speed, stuck that gouge in and BAM broke the gouge, the tool rest and the piece went over my left shoulder 33 feet to the other end of the shop. Told my friend the next day that the new turning club that had just started is where we needed to go. That club was where I first heard of the different lathes available. My mentor had a Oneway 16" lathe and another had a 3520a. After seeing these lathes I new the Craftsman was not up to par and I started looking at other lathes. After deep diving for a few months I settled on the Nova DVR3000. I purchased it from a store in Canada and was able to pick it up in West Virginia. The day after I bought it my mentor called and said he found me a deal, the big Powermatic 4224. Well I just couldn't get myself to tell the guy I changed my mind so the big Powermatic went elsewhere. Now I still to this day have that DVR and it has been updated all the way through and the Supernova chuck that came with it. Now a few years later and belonging to 3 clubs (one here in Erie and 2 in Ohio) I was preparing to go to my first symposium (Turning 2005 by the Ohio Valley Woodturners) and had just completed my woodturning shop (24 X 36) I purchased a Powermatic 3520b with bed extension for $2300 if my memory serves. Left the boxed up lathe on the new shop floor and went to that symposium which remains my favorite to this day. Now getting back to my mentor with his Oneway, I just did not like that lathe as I felt my body was just humming (I worked as a machine operator at GE and all the machinery was cast Iron) and I attributed that to the steel bedded Oneway lathe. Now in that period my club purchased a 12" Oneway which I also did not like as did many others. I became the President of that club for 10 years and had to deal with that lathes foibles during demos and such. Now I loved my Powermatic and my Nova and my next one was a 16" Jet as we were starting to think about have demonstrators come in and Delta had come out with the 46-460. I bought 2 for myself and the club bought 4 and a couple other members bought a few. Buying a group of lathes got us a very good deal. I then purchased a 12" Jet Midi and now we had 8 lathes available for hands on (the Oneway the club had was not included). I've turned on a lot of different lathes but for me I want cast iron. There are no bad lathes (except those sheet metal contraptions that traveling company sold) there are just lathes of different calibers and different prices. There are companies that stand behind their products and at least one that doesn't do a very good job. I still stand by my credo that a woodturner that owns a product is confident that it is the best and when asked which is the best they answer that theirs is the best. My advice is for you to try different brands before buying as just because it costs more does not make it the best for you. To finalize this long diatribe my club here in Erie just came upon a Powermatic and the Oneway is for sale.
 
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My first lathe was a $600 Grizzly my wife bought me to aid in my hobby of building QueenAnne furniture. Lowest speed was 600 rpm’s. I was using it to turn table legs and columns that I split to use in the furniture. Long story short I turned a bowl one day and fell in love with bowl turning. Had no idea what I was doing but knew this was what I wanted to do.
It was a decent lathe if you always turned balanced wood😁!
I finally decided to retire early but wanted to replace the lathe and several pieces of older equipment first. I had looked at Rikon, Jet, and Powermatic and read as much as I could about the lathes and talked to some turners at the store I purchased it from. I went with the Powermatic 3520c and have been very pleased with its performance.
I had never heard of Oneway, Robust, or Vicmarc and not sure I would have spent the money for one of those at the time.
So I’ve only turned on a $600 Grizzly and a $3700 (now $5400) Powermatic but it is a night and day difference. I would like to purchase another lathe sometime in the future and also keep the Powermatic
My experience is very much like David’s. I began on a low end Grizzly which was fine for what it was, but anything slightly off balance was a real adventure. At the beginning of Covid, and after retiring, I treated myself to a PM 3520 C, and it felt like I was going from a Ford Pinto to a Cadillac. I’m still thrilled with it, and look forward to turning on it almost every day.

My one complaint is with the electronic/digital indexing function. It is way too imprecise to use effectively for accurately dividing a bowl blank for something like basket illusion work. Are they all this way? Of course an improvised or commercial segmenting wheel fixes that problem.

Full disclosure: I’ve never turned on the true top-of-the line brands, but being somewhat frugal, I can’t imagine that I’d feel the extra $$ would give me much more satisfaction.

I spent a week last year at J.C. Campbell School with Trent Bosch and was happy to see that their turning studio was equipped exclusively with Powermatics. I’m sure that was in part a financial decision, but it sent me the message that they too considered this a serious, solid, dependable lathe, which it has so far been for me.
 
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For me it is like this Mini lathes are in the 8" to 10" range. The Midi lathes are in the 12" to 15" range and full sized lathes are 16" to 25" or bigger. The Mini and Midi usually have short beds and full size usually have long beds. My first lathe back in about 2000 was a Craftsman 15" variable speed lathe as that was all I was aware of. The first thing I did was chuck up a 35 pound hunk of wood and with a roughing gouge in hand turned it on. Did not know it was on full speed, stuck that gouge in and BAM broke the gouge, the tool rest and the piece went over my left shoulder 33 feet to the other end of the shop. Told my friend the next day that the new turning club that had just started is where we needed to go. That club was where I first heard of the different lathes available. My mentor had a Oneway 16" lathe and another had a 3520a. After seeing these lathes I new the Craftsman was not up to par and I started looking at other lathes. After deep diving for a few months I settled on the Nova DVR3000. I purchased it from a store in Canada and was able to pick it up in West Virginia. The day after I bought it my mentor called and said he found me a deal, the big Powermatic 4224. Well I just couldn't get myself to tell the guy I changed my mind so the big Powermatic went elsewhere. Now I still to this day have that DVR and it has been updated all the way through and the Supernova chuck that came with it. Now a few years later and belonging to 3 clubs (one here in Erie and 2 in Ohio) I was preparing to go to my first symposium (Turning 2005 by the Ohio Valley Woodturners) and had just completed my woodturning shop (24 X 36) I purchased a Powermatic 3520b with bed extension for $2300 if my memory serves. Left the boxed up lathe on the new shop floor and went to that symposium which remains my favorite to this day. Now getting back to my mentor with his Oneway, I just did not like that lathe as I felt my body was just humming (I worked as a machine operator at GE and all the machinery was cast Iron) and I attributed that to the steel bedded Oneway lathe. Now in that period my club purchased a 12" Oneway which I also did not like as did many others. I became the President of that club for 10 years and had to deal with that lathes foibles during demos and such. Now I loved my Powermatic and my Nova and my next one was a 16" Jet as we were starting to think about have demonstrators come in and Delta had come out with the 46-460. I bought 2 for myself and the club bought 4 and a couple other members bought a few. Buying a group of lathes got us a very good deal. I then purchased a 12" Jet Midi and now we had 8 lathes available for hands on (the Oneway the club had was not included). I've turned on a lot of different lathes but for me I want cast iron. There are no bad lathes (except those sheet metal contraptions that traveling company sold) there are just lathes of different calibers and different prices. There are companies that stand behind their products and at least one that doesn't do a very good job. I still stand by my credo that a woodturner that owns a product is confident that it is the best and when asked which is the best they answer that theirs is the best. My advice is for you to try different brands before buying as just because it costs more does not make it the best for you. To finalize this long diatribe my club here in Erie just came upon a Powermatic and the Oneway is for sale.

I found that interesting, thanks. I didn't know OneWay had a metric spindle size.
 
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I still have reservations about fabricated lathes like OneWay and Robust. I wonder if the choice to make a lathe by welding lots of small bits of metal together is more of a commercial decision? Cast Iron machines have lasted the test of time and is still the material of choice for most lathe manufacturers.
I’ve only briefly seen Powermatic, Jet and OneWay lathes in the flesh. They are more rare in the UK these days. I’d have a Powermatic or a Jet in preference to the OneWay any day. Good luck with your choice.

Edit: I’ve never understood the decision to add “styling” to some modern lathe designs? There are some pretty strange choices made by manufacturers. The larger Powermatic lathe heads are just plain boxes and look very practical to me, very similar in fact to Metalwork lathes I’ve used. Having a large flat top with a rubber mat on the top is extremely handy. Try placing a chuck key on a OneWay or Robust head.
Hi Bill, your comments about fabricated beds are understood. Speaking for Robust, it would be hard to incorporate stainless steel bedways into a cast iron bed. That is standard on Robust and optional for Oneway. With thousands of Robust fabricated beds in service, and many more thousands of Oneway beds in service, without complaint or failure, I'll stand by our decision. And yes, in the long run, cast iron beds are cheaper to manufacture. Also, there are flat spots on the headstock of our American Beauty and Sweet 16 for tools. In fact, the S16 has an additional small toolrack on the headstock. Not trying to sell you one :) as I'm sure you're happy with your decision.
 
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I still have reservations about fabricated lathes like OneWay and Robust. I wonder if the choice to make a lathe by welding lots of small bits of metal together is more of a commercial decision? Cast Iron machines have lasted the test of time and is still the material of choice for most lathe manufacturers.
I suspect those designs are driven by the desire for torsional rigidity without the labor cost of making box castings. All the cast bed lathes I have seen have open bottoms and consequently require more attention to setup to keep the ways in plane. That's not to say that a heavy, properly set up cast lathe won't perform as well as any other design.

For me a high end lathe is distinguished by "disappearing", that is I don't think about it while turning. It just works easily for me without giving it any thought. For instance when I turned on a General 260, which was considered a very good lathe when it came out, I was often reefing down on the toolrest, banjo and tailstock locks. I don't think about those things anymore with my Oneway, they just stay locked down without any extra attention. The marginal utility of a Oneway, Robust or Vicmarc over Powermatic, Nova, etc. is debatable and best answered by each individual trying out different lathes to see what features are important for them. Taking a class at center with a selection of lathes or visiting other turners with lathes of interest is a good way to do that, and one is bound to make some new friends and learn something new as well.

There is an advantage with Oneway and Robust, at least, in the fact that you are dealing with small companies that only build lathes and related products. Call them up and you can talk to Brent or Kevin Clay and get technical advice from people who actually build and work on the machines. That is probably true for Vicmarc as well, though they are on the other side of the world. That doesn't mean you won't get good service from other makers, although there is one importer notorious for inconsistent customer service
 
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I think Brent hitting on one of the main elements, that cast iron is cheaper “in the long run”. When Robust and Oneway were starting out, and this is all conjecture on my part, the fabricated bed lathe was the cheapest route. To make a cast iron lathe requires many patterns, a foundry to pour them and many large machine tools to machine them. You won’t be machining a Powermatic long lathe on a Bridgeport milling machine. Speaking of Bridgeport mills, years ago, they left the raw castings for them in the weather for a year or so to acclimate and stress relieve. I think initially Robust and Oneway made a financial decision but it ended up being a very good machine decision as well.
 
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I understand your comments Brent. I appreciate stainless steel can be a desirable material in many cases. Axminster Tools use stainless steel for their chucks, but it does increase the cost quite a bit. They (Axminster) have recently introduced a plain steel chuck in order to compete in a crowded chuck market.
A perhaps overlooked, and desirable property of Cast Iron is that it is somewhat self lubricating, unlike steel.
It also absorbs vibration much better.
 
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I don’t pretend to know the cost difference of materials but I can appreciate that mild steel is quite cheap and easily available. Stainless steel is though quite expensive by comparison.
Cast Iron heads and beds aren’t exactly cheap and could even be more expensive than mild steel if you include the cost of casting and molds etc. One very important point though is investment. I suspect you can fabricate a mild/stainless steel lathe by welding without too much investment apart from jigs and welding equipment? Cast Iron lathes must surely require a reasonable minimum order from whoever is supplying them, a considerable investment.
In some cases a product doesn’t need to be any better to attract buyers, it may just need to be a little different.
Cast or welded it’s unlikely to wear out. I suspect the biggest wear items are motors and bearings?
 
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A perhaps overlooked, and desirable property of Cast Iron is that it is somewhat self lubricating, unlike steel.

Kind of true Bill, until it rusts. Hence the stainless steel. A short soap box comment from me: Woodturners today live in a "lathe rich" and "tool rich" environment. Never have so many different brands of good machines and good tools been available. We can all find what's just right for us. That leads us all to threads like this where we can have open discussions about our likes and dislikes.
 
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Likes and dislikes, yes. All the metal work lathes I’ve used have been pale grey or off white which pleases my sense of aesthetics.
Whilst I like the style and build of Powermatic Lathes I hate the mustard yellow colour! 😆
 
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Now, I am wondering about cast iron.... I have a number of hand planes. The old ones were made from cast iron, and they had to weather and/or cure for a year or more before final finishing. Now days they use "ductile cast iron" and it does not need the weathering/curing that the old style cast iron did. Another benefit of it is that if you drop your hand plane on the floor, it most likely won't break. So, are the cast iron beds made from this ductile cast iron?

Some history, there was a Nichols Lathe for some years. It was pretty much the only "big" lathe out there, and they were custom made. Beasts! I ran into John Nichols at the symposium in Portland before this one. He ended up going out of business because of the Oneway lathes.

How big of a lathe do you need? I guess another question that should be answered before you buy. I almost never turn anything over about 14 inch diameter. That size of a bowl just isn't very popular. Far bigger than most can use and/or store, which is always a consideration.

Grizzly used to be pretty bottom line for quality. I think they have upgraded at least a little, but I do not own any Grizzly tools.

robo hippy
 
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