Excellent. I did the cast iron tool rests for both my 3520C and 2014 ... the JB Weld is holding up well and the top bar shows no sign of any wear.
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Tool Rest Marks?
- Thread starter Gabe Latner
- Start date
Here's my top bar from D-Way on my almost new 3520C soon after I set it up over two years ago; it looks new because it was. Using the exact instructions in the video, I went ahead and installed that D-Way top bar and the Black Hole for dust collection at the same time, and am glad I did both. As I said in a previous post, I have beat up this tool rest relentlessly with heavy, green out of round blanks for live-edge, and it has held up like new. When it gets grubby from green walnut, I either sand it with 220 or scrub it with 0000-steel wool and mineral spirits, buff in a coat of wax, and it's slicker than owl snot again!
I must have done something wrong? went step by step to the instructions on the video.
My first attempt was a complete failure.
After letting the JB weld cure for a complete 24 hours my "spot" welds didn't hold at all.
At first the rod seemed to be held to the tool rest. So I proceeded to the next steps in the video. I taped up the tool rest ( as shown in the video and proceeded to apply the rest of the JB weld. )
Smoothed out the JB weld using denatured alcohol on my finger as shown in the video and got everything "welded up" so to speak, and went to remove the green tape and the rod just came off the tool rest like it had never been epoxied at all??
So the JB weld only partially adhered to the rod ( Weak bond at best) but did adhere to my tool rest.
Before applying the JB weld I sanded both and cleaned with denatured alcohol and let completely dry.
Maybe I'll try again some other day but for now I am going to skip this upgrade and move on.
The Jury is in recess out on this upgrade.
My first attempt was a complete failure.
After letting the JB weld cure for a complete 24 hours my "spot" welds didn't hold at all.
At first the rod seemed to be held to the tool rest. So I proceeded to the next steps in the video. I taped up the tool rest ( as shown in the video and proceeded to apply the rest of the JB weld. )
Smoothed out the JB weld using denatured alcohol on my finger as shown in the video and got everything "welded up" so to speak, and went to remove the green tape and the rod just came off the tool rest like it had never been epoxied at all??
So the JB weld only partially adhered to the rod ( Weak bond at best) but did adhere to my tool rest.
Before applying the JB weld I sanded both and cleaned with denatured alcohol and let completely dry.
Maybe I'll try again some other day but for now I am going to skip this upgrade and move on.
The Jury is in recess out on this upgrade.
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Call me a cynic... How about stopping at any local business that does welding work (machine shop, muffler repair, auto body shop) and asking to hit it with a couple quick tack welds for a few bucks? Friend, neighbor, anyone with a small welding rig?
I guess I'd never think to epoxy such items together, even though many have had success with it.
Seems like a low (really low) dollar fix to a semi-non-issue on a really expensive machine. Buy a Robust rest and be done with it forever.
I guess I'd never think to epoxy such items together, even though many have had success with it.
Seems like a low (really low) dollar fix to a semi-non-issue on a really expensive machine. Buy a Robust rest and be done with it forever.
I have to agree. Once I bought the first Robust rest I quit using the cast iron rests and save them to go with the lathes if they ever go to another person. I have a variety of Robust rests now in two sizes for in the shop and to take to demos. (And they make great gifts for turners!)
I have welding equipment and could easily tack weld a hardened rod to the top but I'd rather spend my time on something else. If I did make one, I'd tack it with several small welds then fill in the spaces with black epoxy. (I have made some like that and welded up some other styles years ago before I discovered the Robust.)
Also, when I epoxy steel to steel I always clean with a good degreaser after roughing up the steel with something a cutoff wheel or diamond bit on a Dremel - make groves or cross hatches - anything to give the epoxy something to grip. I also do that for other metals besides steel.
JKJ
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Two things come to mind. Sand the tool rest top with real course paper to give it some tooth for the epoxy to grab. Clean both parts with acetone or naptha to get rid of any wax or oils. When I did this to an older Nova tool rest I used a round burr in my Dremel to create a trough in the rest for the rod..
It seems clear to me that the D-Way steel rod and JB Weld solution was aimed at turners who are not welders (like me). As we paid for that massive 14-inch tool rest (and I use it on every big, heavy turn and longer spindle work), it's just a different solution for those of us who despise soft cast-iron tool-rests. Most of the rest of my specialty rests are indeed the superior Robust rests, and I am gradually adding to them. I always say that you can't have too many chucks or tool-rests. I also always say that if you ask 10 turners a question, you will get 10 different responses, just like with every other hobby community I have been a part of. That's a big part of why I frequently consult this forum; there are usually a number of solutions to any turning problem.
edit to add: As an example, when I posted a recent plea for help with vacum-chucking solutions, I got a lot of helpful responses and pictures, which helped me set up my system successfully. Another example I just remembered: I was helping Tim Tucker teach a platter class at our CMW Turning and Learning Center Saturday when a relatively new turner shared an idea he had gotten from the instructor in another class. Basically, he shared that she had suggested when negative-rake scraping a convex surface (like the outside of a bowl or platter) to use a more or less flat scraper face so that as you make those gentle scraping passes, you go back over any minute areas that you don't see the tiny dust-shavings. This made perfect sense to me, and I intend to try it on my next bowl (cranking out ice cream scoops and craft show spindle stuff at the moment). Anyhoo, back to work here!
Greg-I have never heard of JB Weld failing. It's rated at 5020 psi tensile strength. Assuming you mixed it thoroughly, I can't imagine it not holding, or that there might have been a bad batch-I've never heard of that either. But yeah, maybe just take it to a welder and be done with it.
edit to add: As an example, when I posted a recent plea for help with vacum-chucking solutions, I got a lot of helpful responses and pictures, which helped me set up my system successfully. Another example I just remembered: I was helping Tim Tucker teach a platter class at our CMW Turning and Learning Center Saturday when a relatively new turner shared an idea he had gotten from the instructor in another class. Basically, he shared that she had suggested when negative-rake scraping a convex surface (like the outside of a bowl or platter) to use a more or less flat scraper face so that as you make those gentle scraping passes, you go back over any minute areas that you don't see the tiny dust-shavings. This made perfect sense to me, and I intend to try it on my next bowl (cranking out ice cream scoops and craft show spindle stuff at the moment). Anyhoo, back to work here!
Greg-I have never heard of JB Weld failing. It's rated at 5020 psi tensile strength. Assuming you mixed it thoroughly, I can't imagine it not holding, or that there might have been a bad batch-I've never heard of that either. But yeah, maybe just take it to a welder and be done with it.
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Firstly, did you make sure you got the right kind of JB Weld? There are several types that may look confusingly similar, the very specific type of JB Weld is explained in the D-way Video. and secondly as mentioned by others, proper mixing and portions can be critical. I got my JB Weld from a reputable seller on Amazon (In fact it was Amazon itself as the seller)
Reason I ask is that some of the off-the-shelf JB weld kits you can get in hardware stores and Auto Parts stores (or Dollar stores) can be the wrong kind for what you need, and for another they can be out of date (The fresher you can get, the better) , also, when handling after sanding and cleaning with DNA, be sure you don't touch anything bare handed afterwards- Oils from fingers/hands can interfere with bonding as can any other oils, paints or dust settled on the pieces.
I am going to make a second attempt at this using your suggestions.
I have the JB weld that has 15-24 hour cure time and I got it off the shelf at Walmart.
I cleaned everything with DNA the first time but I want to try the acetone cleaner this time as suggested by John Lucas.
Warning / Caution:
These cannot be welded as it will ruin the heat treating of the hardened rod at the welded spots.
I have the JB weld that has 15-24 hour cure time and I got it off the shelf at Walmart.
I cleaned everything with DNA the first time but I want to try the acetone cleaner this time as suggested by John Lucas.
Warning / Caution:
These cannot be welded as it will ruin the heat treating of the hardened rod at the welded spots.
Did you do the whole rest at once or do a couple of spots just to hold it in place and then put the rest on the next day?
I think that is what is in the video.
Thanks,
Greg
That’s … super weird. I feel like there must have been either a material failure (JB Weld) or a process error somewhere in there. I did the D-Way mod on my Nova Galaxi’s tool rest, and it went completely smoothly. I forget the video’s precise steps, but I did grind away all of the paint on the top of the tool rest, i.e. the contact area, then carefully cleaned away all grinding debris. Only then did I use the JB Weld. I never put it to any extreme test, but I absolutely did bang on it a bit to ensure the connection was rock solid.
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This is what I used specifically - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006O1ICE Note their Product Model Number - 8265S Looking on Amazon there's a TON of different J-B Weld epoxies
I can confirm that this is exactly what I used, and I’m nearly certain is the precise product used by Jimmie Allen in the D-Way installation video.
That's the same stuff I have.
OK second attempt.
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I have never had JB Weld fail to stick to metals and other well-cleaned materials. I've used it a lot around the farm and equipment. I also use acetone to clean. I don't trust today's DNA, different that what we used to buy. If I clean with alcohol I use either ispropal alcohol or pure grain alcohol (ethanol.) I buy this in quantity for making vanilla extract. At a nuclear materials facility where I used to work we used only laboratory grade PGA for critical cleaning.
I think you can tack weld the M42 without affecting the hardness of the top surface. Use a good heat sink on the top (I'd use a large steel clamp or a thick steel plate) and small quick tacks, But I don't see why the JB Weld shouldn't work.
One perhaps interesting thing about JB Weld epoxy - it contains steel particles. I once used JB Weld to fasten a small cylindrical super-magnet to a steel fence-stapling tool so I could use the tool to pull staples out of the can to speed up the fencing without finger damage. I drilled a shallow hole so about 1/4" of magnet would stick out, added a little 5-minute JB Weld (strength was not an issue), pushed the magnet into the hole, then made a fillet from the epoxy around the magnet for strength. The while I watched the JB Weld slowly flowed up the magnet and made a rounded end on the magnet! I finally got what I wanted by repeatedly pushing the epoxy down to where I wanted it until it started to set up. Never imagined this happening. Still using the tool 20 years later.
Greg,
Might test a small dab of your JB Weld on the newly cleaned (and hopefully scuffed up) M42 steel rod to see if it sticks.
JKJ
I think you can tack weld the M42 without affecting the hardness of the top surface. Use a good heat sink on the top (I'd use a large steel clamp or a thick steel plate) and small quick tacks, But I don't see why the JB Weld shouldn't work.
One perhaps interesting thing about JB Weld epoxy - it contains steel particles. I once used JB Weld to fasten a small cylindrical super-magnet to a steel fence-stapling tool so I could use the tool to pull staples out of the can to speed up the fencing without finger damage. I drilled a shallow hole so about 1/4" of magnet would stick out, added a little 5-minute JB Weld (strength was not an issue), pushed the magnet into the hole, then made a fillet from the epoxy around the magnet for strength. The while I watched the JB Weld slowly flowed up the magnet and made a rounded end on the magnet! I finally got what I wanted by repeatedly pushing the epoxy down to where I wanted it until it started to set up. Never imagined this happening. Still using the tool 20 years later.
Greg,
Might test a small dab of your JB Weld on the newly cleaned (and hopefully scuffed up) M42 steel rod to see if it sticks.
JKJ
AKA "Everclear". Hilariously, I know of recording engineers who would cross state lines to buy the stuff, to clean their DAT (digital audio tape) heads. Those were helical scan heads similar to what VCRs used. Anything that could leave any residue was a huge problem.
Also comes highly recommended for use with shellac...
I followed the instructions included and in the video to a t, so did 2 or 3 spot welds (I forget) and then taped it to hold overnight before finishing the next day. What you've got going in the pic looks exactly right, and is certainly a neater bead than I did. I would be shocked if that doesn't hold now.
@Aaron Harris - Hey did you do the back and ends also ?
I checked it this morning and all seems good to this point.
I checked it this morning and all seems good to this point.
@John Whitley :
Hey did you do the back and ends also ?
I checked it this morning and all seems good to this point.
Hey did you do the back and ends also ?
I checked it this morning and all seems good to this point.
Yeah, I ran a bead on both sides of the bar, and like I said earlier, that setup has been rock solid on some pretty brutal turns with, for example, an out of round bradford pear live edge half a log that I needed help to lift between centers. After a rough-turn like that, especially with green walnut or similar, I will occasionally wet-sand/scrub it length-wise with 220/320/400 and then 0000 steel wool, all soaked in mineral spirits (or at least that last step). Wipe down and buff in a little paste wax with a shop towel-good as new, and no nicks!