This site not used. Why?

[Norm Smith]

Compared to other wood turning sites, this one , in my opinion is not utilized. I cant figure out why. With our large membership, the resourses, the wealth of information available and the knowledge and talent of members that can be tapped into, this site should be one of the busiest on the net, or am I wrong?
Norm

 

[KEW]

I don't consider it a problem. I like the AAW forum and view it as a good source of information.

The others which have more traffic have more "personality" with some joking around and some members who are fixtures and routinely get chided (with good humour) for what they turn or turn with, etc.

I'm not sure how it happens, but I don't look to this site as a place to "socialize". Rather it is a more content driven site.

I do not see this as a weakness; rather, it complements the other sites well.

 

[MichaelMouse]

The URL is something that folks aren't likely to come across casually, as it contains neither the word "wood" or "turning."

Then again, the membership may be at a stage in their development where they've more answers than questions.

 

[john lucas]

I'm like you I don't really know why it isn't used more. I know it's not the same as Wood Central or WOW but it is used much more than Wood magazine forum and a couple others that I visit. We have had some lively discussions and we do have our share of fun poking.

 

[Ken Grunke]

I like Kurt's response and agree with his viewpoint. It's not extremely active here, but it's not dead either. The "atmosphere" on the AAW forums is more formal, and less chaotic. Every site has it's good points and not so good points, and I think the strongest point of the AAW forums is the Gallery which is generally the first thing that new visitors see. Excellent exposure for woodturners to the general public!

A similar site that's more laid back and less formal is the Woodturner's Resource site, which also has a prominent Gallery.

 

[Jake Debski]

Like others I come here for information, but I'm not above a little attempted humor nor opposed to it. It also seems that the site was considerably busier prior to summer and has not picked up again, yet. There is a wealth of knowledge available here and just reading the daily posts often answers yet unasked questions. I have used the search section, rather than asking, just to be sure it is not an old or previous topic. I usually find an answer.

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Norm,

Come Thanksgiving when everyone starts working on the Christmas list and dreaming of thier sales at next year's art show circuit thing will come to life again. I frequent 3 sites, they are all quiet lately.

I also think the little battles that erupt in any group of humans irritates more than just those involved. People fade away until some little battle prompts them to move again and once they make the circle they come back. No harm no foul.

There also comes a point when the topics repeat themselves so you get bored and read something else for awhile until that repeats itself.

Frank

 

[Brian Hahn]

I noticed the lower traffic right after the URL was changed. Maybe a lot of people didn't want to (or couldn't remember how to) change their bookmarks.

 

[John Nicholas]

Site Not Used

How do you define Not Used?

Number of people posting?
Number of people reading?
Number of pictures posted?

Time spent surfing all the images by lots of people?
Time spent reading all the postings by lots of people?

I think the site is well used by those here. Could we benefit from more traffic? Perhaps Yes.

What would more traffic mean? More topics? More subforums? Maybe? More posts along the lines of Great! Way To Go! I like it!

Reading the posts above I hear "Busy Lives", "More Formal", "Personality", "Socialization"

I also hear "Gallery", "Knowledge", "Answers"

Somedays with work, family and maybe some turning ... I don't get here or I just get here to read.

Somedays something gives and like tonight I get to post.

John

 

[Barry Elder]

While it may appear that the forum is not bursting at the seams, we must remember that this is not simply a forum. This site has more information available to you and me than all the other sites put together. Please don't take offense! None is intended. This site is the headquarters, so to speak, of over 12,000 woodturners of various levels of skill and intention. So when you say this site is underused, I understand you to say that this "forum" is underused. That may be true today, but over the last five years or so, most of the knowledge I've soaked up has come from here or the people who post here as well as other places. This is the site I look to when I have a real "meaty" problem because I have great confidence that my problem, if it can be solved, will be solved here.

 

[Richard Baker]

Ditto what KEW, MM, and Elderbarryl said. The Wood site was "my first", some years ago. Great source of knowledge, support, and encouragement from the Tolly brothers and some others that I still see here and elsewhere. Until they "improved" it, slowing it by a factor of about 10. Just don't have that much time left.

This forum is a great source of knowledge, support, and encouragement, and it doesn't take all night to read the posts.

 

[Bill Blasic]

This forum is not being used at all. With out use there are no questions and with no questions there are no replies. It may have been busy in the past but that is not the case now. The powers that be should be trying to find a way to get people active on this site. There is tons of info being shared on WOW and Wood Central and that should be the same here.

 

[drjcbarton]

I'll dare to be different too and second the under use issue. Comparatively speaking, this forum is near needing life-support. Other's have many more posting by people of various skill levels.

Suspected Reasons:

1) Belief that you must be a member to post
2) Perception that anyone on this forum is an expert
3) Getting to the forum is not easy, too many buttons to push
4) Use of alias; is depersonalizing, you have no idea to whom you are speaking
5) The "big boys and girls" of woodturning don't seem to post here, or very rarely. I see them post more often on other sites. You have to ask yourself why?

As an AAW member I think it' a shame. If the premier woodturning organization in the known universe doesn't have the most website users, it a sign that others are doing something right and we're not...

 

[Ruth Niles]

Too tempting, I have to express my opinion.

I look at the woodturning "world" as a huge party. We're all here for the same reason but there are little groups of people all around the room having their conversations. You stop at one, talk, joke around, someone starts a conversation you've heard before, you walk to the next group, they are just talking about general life stuff so you hang with them a few minutes, get bored, walk to the next group or, like I do, just take a break and walk outside.

Every turner can not be at every forum. Some members of this little group seem to be looking around the room saying "how come those people aren't over here talking with us?"............... there is no answer because you'd have to go to every turner and ask them. I love this forum just the way it is.

This site is no more difficult to get to, I have it in My Favorites, one click and I'm here. As to using the word wood or woodturning, if anyone is looking for anything pertaining to woodturning and do a google search (for instance), AAW home is the first hit. That's as good as it gets.

This site is a heck of a lot faster than WoW. Wow has a lot more pictures but I pull up 12 at a time and, if nothing interests me, I'm out of there. They don't have good subject threads, in MY opinion, and if there is a good one, chances are the same guy started the same thread on another forum. There are about 800(?) members and the same 50(?) post the most.

Woodcentral is very good, pictures, conversation, moderator, OT discussions, over 600 members and the same 50(?) post the most.

One Woman's Opinion

Ruth

 

[drjcbarton]

Hi Ruth,

I agree with much of your primary theory that we're a big ecclectic group and solically wander the many offerings out there but, I do disagree about the site navigation. My example; I have the main page of AAW bookmarked and navigate to the forum from there. So, for me to get to new posts I have to go through 3 pages to get there. Having both a picture gallery and post site also makes for confusion. I had a co-worker tell me once that our company website wasn't hard to use (we all complained about what a dog it was) and the problem was that employees just needed to be trained to use it. My reply to her also seems to apply to this site in my opinion. "If you need to learn how to use a website, then the site is a wretched failure." I don't have to learn the nuiances of the LL Bean website to order a jacket. Additionally, the AAW site is overly "wordy" and could do with a dose of parsimony.

 

[jffink]

I think new visitors to the site are confused (like I was) by the following: When you find the "forums" button on the AAW homepage(and this doesn't jump out at a first time visitor) and click that button, you are directed to a page that isn't a forum page. From that page you need to find and click another "forums" button in order to get to the list of forums. Who expects to have to search for another forums button when he/she has already clicked a supposed forums link? I initially thought the forums link just didn't work. I think that changing the link on the AAW homepage to go directly to the list of forums would increase use of the forums.

I do like this forum and consider it a valuable resource, and I am grateful to all who have worked hard to get it online and keep it going — it's not an easy job I'm sure. I suspect those folks appreciate constructive suggestions for improving the site.

As for increasing the forum activity, maybe I'll go start a thread to help rouse some dormant pundits.

Regards,
John

 

[Hstudio]

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[Jerry Hall]

Threads stay alive on the AAW forum

I notice that while the pace and volume of posts may be slow, posts stay alive over time, and as members have ideas they add a post, and the thread then floats to the top. That provides some continuity on a subject within one thread. I like that. It is a more deliberative process in a way.

 

[Ed Davidson]

The AAW homepage link to the forum is now a direct shot, with no intermediate page visits required...thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Griesbach]

Well done, Ed. Thanks.

 

[Ruth Niles]

Hi Ruth,

I do disagree about the site navigation. My example; I have the main page of AAW bookmarked and navigate to the forum from there. So, for me to get to new posts I have to go through 3 pages to get there. ..............



Why not just put the AAW Forums > Main Category as your favorites along with the AAW home page. That's how I have it so if I want the forums, that's the "favorite" I click and I'm here instantly.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Good obvious link to the forum, and the words wood and turner are there. Ought to make it easier. Quick response!

Ruth, and others who might want more direct, can mark any page they want to be directed to. I use http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/ so that I can see the pictures too, but if time is short, mark and jump into later screens with your setup.

 

[Ruth Niles]

On one other forum, if someone posts a pic of a terrible looking piece, about 20 guys chime saying "Great Form!" or "That's a beauty!". It is a Mutual admiration society! The only word that they know is "form".....Never a comment on balance or proportion or the use of negative space.
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*the above from Hstudio and below the response from George.

FINALLY, something I agree with you about... It IS sad that their sense of "kindness" or fear of hurting someone's feelings keeps them from making an honest evaluation.
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I agree with both of you. I understand why this happens and it will never change.

Most people don't want to assume they "know" what's better.

There are too many "works of art" that totally escape my sense of design, proportion, balance or anything else.

We do not know the poster personally so we can't really be sure that our opinion of what he should do to improve his work will help or hurt him. I've seen pictures of turnings that didn't impress me, then saw them in person and they were perfectly beautiful with no changes needed what so ever.

It's no different than a friend asking if you like the color he painted his house. You hate it but say something like "it's nice" or "I didn't know you liked purple and red so much". Ok, a very few might say "it's ugly".

Most turners want to encourage. Too much critique can discourage.

From infancy we say "good job" when a kid scribbles, "nice work" when a teen makes his first shop project (even if the legs aren't straight like the little table I'm using that my son made 22 yrs. ago!), we say "this is good" when our married daughter makes (burns) her first meal and it starts all over again with grandkids. We are conditioned to compliment first, criticize ONLY if necessary.

I realize offering suggestions is not criticizing.

One woman's opinion yet again.

 

[Hstudio]

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[Hstudio]

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[Richard Baker]

Hstudio,
Beautiful work, and great form! But have no clue about that other stuff that Ruth mentioned. Despite a few local folks' comments to the contrary, I am no "artist" and not likely to become one. Just a simple country turner.

Seriously, I think the pieces Hstudio posted are indeed very pretty, but am poorly qualified to comment on their "artistic merit".

Should we (who are using this forum) all be just a little resentful at being called "Nobody"? Probably not. In my case, it fits, and those who aren't will just ignore it.

Yeah, I just have the link in my "favorites" that connects directly to this forum. Probably should spend more time in the gallery looking for stuff to copy, er, to inspire and guide me to improve my own stuff.

Interesting thread.

 

[Jake Debski]

I still think that Doug Fisher and Robbie from New Zealand are doing the most original work here. end quote ]

I'll go a bit further and say that the Kiwis' and Aussies are really breaking new trail. Their work seems to possess a greater sense of adventure and willingness to experiment. I'm speaking of work I see posted on a couple of sites in addition to here. Not all of it is successful, but overall very creative stuff.

 

[Hstudio]

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[Jake Debski]

........... I like turnings that look like turnings. When they stop looking like they have been near a lathe, I lose interest (as a woodturner - I might really like the "art," just not care for the category it is considered in).
But that's just me.

George, that is precisely why I enjoy the work of many of our "down- under" posters. Their work is obviously turned, with a large dose of how'd he do that thrown in.

 

[drjcbarton]

I'm not exactly clear where we swerved from talking about site traffic and lost control and ended up looking into the on coming headlights of just what constitutes turning. However, it does seem that clear and frank discussion makes for interesting reading, just looks at the number of replies and views on this thread. George, clearly tact is not one of your strong points. Hstudio, let's picth a big tent here and let everybody in, including a myopic George. Being able to voice your views can be done without acrimony (to all). And George, about that being the only person in the thread, take your own words to heart.

 

[Eric]

Time out......

I'm not exactly clear where we swerved from talking about site traffic and lost control and ended up looking into the on coming headlights of just what constitutes turning. However, ............

I agree, let's step back and take a breath.......

For me, I think of the art of turning as I think of the world with it's many different people and many different cultures, everywhere I look I see something new and interesting, true I may not want to live there - but it's still interesting. Now the questing is how do we get our world of members to stop in and say hello from time to time.

I am active in many different forums, not just wood related forums like this. One of the first things I noticed is how dry this forum is visually. Other than a few Smilies I don't see any cut-and-past graphics or photos,, just text. My eyes and mind get board. It would be nice if we could easily post photos of what we are talking about in with the text. If we can do that now, I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any directions anywhere. I've tried the attachment function but have no idea of what the effect will be when I'm doing it, I've got to complete the attachment and then go to Preview Post to see what I've done, that too laborious. We need WYSIWYG functionality so we can see what we're talking about. This forum is like a cake with no icing.

Well that's my thoughts on the original subject.

Cheers

 

[KEW]

This forum is like a cake with no icing.

I view this forum more as being like a professional journal compared to other forums which are more like popular magazines.

They both have their place and I feel it would be a loss to change the flavor of the AAW forum to make it more like the others.

 

[pfduffy]

Web Page use

There is a major factor at work on the above comments that I want to mention; "We do only wood turning". Every other site that I visit has some other aspect related to woodworking, be it tools, flat work, etc. I wish more turners were members of AAW and I love the current initiative to get more people committed to membership in our organization. Each and every chapter should be looking for new members for their club and making a strong effort to commit all members to an AAW membership. Let us work on that idea for 2008! Philip

 

[drjcbarton]

George,

One man's "clear and concise," when all context of body language is absent can also come across as another man's "forum bully." You make some very strong statements in your posts both here and elsewhere. I may be entirely wrong but, I'm guessing you are a much more friendly and personable individual in person than what you seem to be on the forum.

 

[Chuck Jones]

This site is very useful to me!

It would be hard to say something that hasn't already been said about this site, but as a newcomer to woodturning and to this forum I want to say "I love it".

I have benefited greatly from browsing through the threads and gallery. I don't post much because of my newness and because most of my questions can be answered by searching. I browse and search almost every evening. Searching is a very important and powerful tool. Taking a few minutes to get familiar with searching would be time well spend for anyone.

As others have said this site tends to be more like a professional journal. That's fine with me. That's what I need. At the same time there seems to be enough flexibility to meet everyone's needs.

Everything can be improved. As an example Ed Davidson fixed the navigation to the forum page before we got through complaining about it. As a lifelong software developer I know not every user's desire can be satisfied that quickly, but many can. It simply requires making the right people aware of the need/desire in a positive manner.

This forum is far from being broken. It may need some tweaking, but I think it is a valuable asset.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Hey George, I don't care what anybody says

I like and look forward to your posts, especially the ones that occasionally make me roll my eyes, but behind that involuntary movement perk some thoughts in my beebee brain that make me go aha! I like best your blunt opinions on turning, philosophy, ideas, contrarian barbs. Of course your thoughtful and heartfelt contributions come through best when there isn't an ad hominum element... Your ideas speak well for themselves. Hang in there. You're not so bad...Keep 'em coming. Don't hold back!

 

[Aaron G+11]

For all those detractors out there, just look at the level of discussion that this thread has demonstrated.

Some very concrete concerns, navigation problems, were raised and addressed.

Some perceptional concerns, opinions of others, were raised and feedback given.

Some usage concerns, to post or not to post, were raised and discussed.

Some content concerns, expert vs non-expert advice, were raised and validation provided.

The woodturnig community is an interesting mix. I have seen wonders created form individuals who turn for pure pleasure of turning and abominations from "professionals", and vice versa. The willingness to share information with others is very high as a group. It may be as simple as "this worked for me", to a citation of an OSHA regulation. I find that to be a blessing as I try to find my own expression.

That's my take on it. It is worth what you paid for it.

 

[Martin Braun]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me we might have run into one of the pitfalls of text communication. It is very hard to convey intention through email, discussion threads etc. From what I have been told, research says that something like 80-90% of communication is nonverbal. Throw in the fact that different phrases used in different geographies have different meanings, etc. and boom!

Getting myself back to the topic at hand, my experience has been that the demographics of the AAW membership probably presents some barriers. Add in the fact that computers are full of buggy software, non-compatible hardware, etc. and I think we see a golden opportunity for local chapters who meet face to face. Perhaps we can put together internet cheat sheets for members of local chapters. This might include:

• local chapter url
• AAW url (main page, forum, other links)
• vendor links
• lumber yard links
• municipality links (to get that free leftover landscaping wood)
• links to 'how-to' documents (jam chucking, jigs, project descriptions etc.)
• links to YouTube & other sites for videos demo'ing turning techniques
• links to online programming (thewoodworkingchannel comes to mind) - after all we have symposia snippets there
• addresses to local libraries, or other free internet access locations (I know not all of our members have computers or internet access)

I would think that if we made these in good font style and font size for readability, and maybe even demo'd these resources on the web for 30 minutes in front of the clubs, we might see a marked increase in use of this website, and other AAW resources on the web. Maybe chapters are already doing this and I'm out of touch?

I personally enjoy quiet forums (my favorite one only gets a handful of hits per month), but since the AAW exists to promote the education of woodturning, I had to put my self-interest aside and post .

Thoughts?

 

[Ken Grunke]

Guys, TAKE IT OUTSIDE.
This is going way off topic with people going on the defensive and trying to get the last word in.
George, and Hstudio, DROP IT, NOW.
Please.

 

[Richard Baker]

Good point re. use of the forum by Chuck ("Searching is a very important and powerful tool. Taking a few minutes to get familiar with searching would be time well spend for anyone.").

And could we please leave some space out there for all the non-professionals who try a lot harder than just "play" at the sport? Thank you.