Stu Batty

[Emiliano Achaval]

Folks, not since waiting for Guilio Marcolongo to arrive to Maui I have been so excited! Stu is here, the Big Island now, he's coming to Maui Wednesday morning. We had several other "celebrities" come over, Betty Scarpino and Dixie Biggs, but we found them other lodging. Stu will be staying with me 5 days... On Wednesday I'm planning on taking him way up the mountain, where the views are unbelievable and I will show him the Koa forest where I have been harvesting lately... I know enough woodturning to know and realize that I don't know much. I'm completely open to learning from guys like Guilio and Stu. Believe it or not, some guys are set in their ways, happy with what they are doing, and have not even bothered to join the only AAW club in the Island. One of them asked me, "Why would I want to join your club" I hope when I come back in my next life I'm also a turner, maybe in a few lifetimes of learning I won't have to sand anymore and hopefully I will finally master the skew.
I got to meet and talked some with Stu in Portland, still, I'm still a little "Star struck", LOL. I will be having a one on one with him, hopefully, in my shop, then a club demo, then a hands on with 2 other club members. That would leave him one full day to relax and maybe go to the beach, clothing optional, but if I can afford it, I will keep him hostage in my shop. Aloha from Maui

 

[Ricc Havens]

Jealous!!

 

[robo hippy]

I love play dates.... Maybe I will have to get over there some day for a play date too....

Why wouldn't some one want to join a woodturning club??? We didn't have one when I first started some 20 years ago. When I think of all the things that I figured out by myself that would have been so much easier if I had some one to show me the little tricks.... I love learning as much as I do turning...

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Why wouldn't some one want to join a woodturning club??? We didn't have one when I first started some 20 years ago. When I think of all the things that I figured out by myself that would have been so much easier if I had some one to show me the little tricks.... I love learning as much as I do turning...
robo hippy

I know joining a club had a profound affect on the turns my life took afterwards. I went through so many doors that opened from the joining the Chesapeake Woodturners.

While it is incomprehensible to me as to why.
not everyone sees value in learning more turning or being exposed to the ideas and methods of others.

Putting your work to others in an instant gallery is humbling, exhilarating, rewarding, and challenging.
Why would anyone avoid it.

 

[John Torchick]

Have a meaningful time and a great learning experience.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

When I told David Ellsworth about the attitude of some of our island turners, he told me he saw the same thing in his first visit to France, many years ago. People there could not believe he was sharing his knowledge, his "secrets"! He called it island fever. Same situation here. Add that we have limited places to sell our things. One said I won't tell you how or where to sell your turnings . Fair enough, we do not do that, we are an educational club. But, a new gallery owner was invited to a meeting to invite us to sell at his place. Woodturners came out of the wood work for that meeting!! So many showed up that I ask the owner to come to another meeting, lol.

 

[Bob Sheppard]

Folks, not since waiting for Guilio Marcolongo to arrive to Maui I have been so excited! Stu is here, the Big Island now, he's coming to Maui Wednesday morning. We had several other "celebrities" come over, Betty Scarpino and Dixie Biggs, but we found them other lodging. Stu will be staying with me 5 days... On Wednesday I'm planning on taking him way up the mountain, where the views are unbelievable and I will show him the Koa forest where I have been harvesting lately... I know enough woodturning to know and realize that I don't know much. I'm completely open to learning from guys like Guilio and Stu. Believe it or not, some guys are set in their ways, happy with what they are doing, and have not even bothered to join the only AAW club in the Island. One of them asked me, "Why would I want to join your club" I hope when I come back in my next life I'm also a turner, maybe in a few lifetimes of learning I won't have to sand anymore and hopefully I will finally master the skew.
I got to meet and talked some with Stu in Portland, still, I'm still a little "Star struck", LOL. I will be having a one on one with him, hopefully, in my shop, then a club demo, then a hands on with 2 other club members. That would leave him one full day to relax and maybe go to the beach, clothing optional, but if I can afford it, I will keep him hostage in my shop. Aloha from Maui

I'm jealous. But we've got Beth Ireland coming to our next meeting, so I'm not too jealous <g>

 

[john lucas]

When I first started photographing for artists many were afraid to open up about techniques. The general thought was someone will steal you idea and then be in competition with you. then the woodturners came along. They shared everything and the willingness to help each other just spilled over into other mediums. Now 25 years later I see artists in most mediums sharing their ideas and teaching. Can't say for sure that it was woodturners that started this but it sure seemed that way to me and I knew a lot of artists.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

Some turners act like they are in a medieval Guild and will be severely punished if they reveal the secrets of the trade.

 

[john lucas]

Those are probably the guys still using scrapers made from files.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You can share all the knowledge and techniques in the world with another person but it still comes down to the motivation and natural talent that the individual has in retaining or applying the knowledge. By the time someone learns a new skill or technique or application the market is usually moving on to the latest and greatest new design or trend that a creative artisan has developed and brought to the market place. The most successful artisans are the ones that have their own vision following their own path expressing their individual creativity in different formats.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I always enjoy stopping at the Woodworkers Emporium booth at SWAT to watch Stu demoing his line of tools. He is a captivating teacher.

 

[John Torchick]

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I was blown away by Stuart today. Simply amazing. I was sold on the 40/40 grind and his push cut within minutes. I have never seen Koa cut so clean. He turned one bowl for The Maui News reporter that came to my studio to do an interview. Story is coming out tomorrow. I had a Cook Pine bowl on the lathe, the end grain I had cut ok, Stuart did one push cut and left a surface that if you sand with 180 you will scratch it. This guy is not human!! LOL I'm doing a one on one with him for 2 days. Then Saturday a club demo, then a hands on with Wayne Omura and Craig Levken on Sunday at Wayne's Studio. We had time to hike up in the mountain, took him to see the edge of the rain forest. Lots of Ohia and Koa. We walked a lot, we got stuck in a blackberry patch for a while... Then we went to see the comercial Koa forest. He helped me find a Koa tree to cut down. He was involved with the timber industry for many years and his insight while searching for a tree was another learning experience. Below is a pic of Stu in the Koa forest by the Koa that he picked... The guy is an enciclopedia, tremendous amounts of information.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Would like to see the bowl grain that he picked....hmm leaning tree = stress grain = goody

 

[Tom Beatty]

Stuart gave classes and demonstrated at our club a couple of years ago and I took one of his all day classes. Best woodturning demonstrator and teacher I have seen. Really enjoyed the way he worked with students. Also he demonstrates at SWAT almost every year, either as a demonstrator for SWAT or in the vendors booth for Woodturners Emporium. Wherever he is, he is always best there. When you have both Stuart and Jimmy Clewes demonstrating in the vendor area it is really great. Also, really interesting to talk to, so you should enjoy his stay.

 

[hockenbery]

Stuart is one of the most skilled woodturners out there.

He does the best long stemmed goblet demo I hav ever seen.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Stuart is one of the most skilled woodturners out there.

He does the best long stemmed goblet demo I hav ever seen.

Al, not sure how to say what I'm about to tell you.... I feel I have not ben turning correctly for the last 23 years. Today I spent 8 hours with Stu. Wayne Omura, Stu, and myself. We made a lot of shavings. 2 of the bowls made out of Cook Pine, you could not tell that I did not sand them. Maybe you could, LOL but a tourist at the gallery, could not. I have never cut a bowl so clean, inside and outside. I have converted several Thompson gouges to his 40/40 grind, and my 3/4 U gouge to a 40* secondary bevel, and I adjust to different types the main bevel. I put a piece of Koa, end grain, box size. You always end up with a little torn grain with my former grind. Stu first cut it, like glass!! I was then able to cut it too. Video is on my Facebook. Question is, why is this style not more popular? Reason is, I believe a beginner might have a hard time doing it. You need tool control. I have 3 more days of one on one with Stu!! And one day long club demo.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Would like to see the bowl grain that he picked....hmm leaning tree = stress grain = goody

We were both drooling, LOL

 

[john lucas]

I'm still playing with the 40/40 grind but it's too steep for my style of bowls. I can reach in better with a grind of about 50 or 55 degrees. I also use the wing of the gouge for a lot of cuts or removing lots of material similar to the way Mike Mahoney and Glen Lucas do. I ended up making my 40/40 gouge about 45/45. When I need a really clean cut and reach for either my Hunter tool or a spindle gouge. I find 2 things that improve the cut quality. The angle of the cutting edge (the more acute the cleaner it cuts) and not forcing the cut. Just to learn I will frequently make several passes on the outside of a mirror using different tools. Sometimes you can really tell a difference between a gouge ground more blunt and the 40/40. Sometimes not. Since my mirrors are somewhat flat I can often use a spindle gouge ground at 35 degree angle and it will cut cleaner than the 40/40. I still don't understand exactly why the Hunter tool will cut so clean because the cutting angle is roughly 60 degrees. It has to be the smaller radius of the cutting tip and the polished inside. That's the only thing that can explain it. That also may be why my Thompson V cuts pretty clean on push cuts. It's ground about 55 degrees but leaves a very clean surface most of the time and it has a small radius tip and I hone the inside flute with a diamond fish hook sharpening tool.
Not saying that I couldn't learn something from Stu. I've seen him demo several times but never taken a class. I have tried his techniques and they seem to work I'm just not sold on the 40/40 grind for my turning.

 

[robo hippy]

Same with me about the 40/40. It just doesn't feel right to me. I do use a 45/45 as my primary gouge grind, and pretty much only use 60 or 70 degree bevels for BOB (bottom of bowl) cuts. I had 2 Ellsworth signature gouges that I wore down to nubs, but don't use the swept back gouges at all any more. Stuart did say that a 60 degree bevel does take more effort to push through the wood. I guess for roughing cuts that is true, but for fine finish cuts, I can't see it, well, can't feel it. If I am having problems with tear out, a 600 grit CBN wheel pretty much eliminates that. I have been going through some rather nasty tear out prone myrtle wood lately, and no variation of shear scraping cleans it up like the 600 grit edge. Never could get the same results with hand honed tools...

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Yea my next CBN wheel will probably be 600. I've been experimenting with 1" sanding belts and different grits to see what I think works best. 600 seems about right. Higher than that and if you aren't dead on the grind it simply doesn't take off enough metal to get sharp all the way to the edge. Of course CBN wheels seem to remove more metal. Polishing the edge to 600 grit seems to accomplish some of what I get with the Hunter Carbide cutters with the polished interior. I backed off the 40/40 because it was just too flat a grind for much of the work I do. 45/45 isn't as grabby and still cuts very clean and reaches most of the shapes I do although I still tend to grab my Thompson V most of the time.

 

[hockenbery]

Different grinds work better with different woods and in different hands.

Several well known turners have adopted the 40/40.

Also I know two pretty good turners locally who use the 40/40 for certain elements in a turning and the Ellsworth every where else.

 

[John Torchick]

After reading this thread and the many posts, I find it interesting that I now know why photos of shops show a rack full of turning tools.

 

[john lucas]

What would you call an Irish grind. Mine is approximately 55/35. The wings are sharpen than the cutting edge. Of course that depends a lot on the flute shape and how you sharpen the wings. If you roll them over like an Ellsworth grind they may be 55/45 or maybe you sharpen the tip differently with a U shaped gouge and have something like 45/20 ( I have a gouge like that with really long wings and love it for some cuts.) Stewarts 40/40 concept is the wings are ground to the same sharpness as the tip so as you rotate the tool you get a new sharp edge without changing the angle of presentation of the tool. If however you have a tool with a different flute shape the wings will not be the same sharpness angle as the nose and king of defeats this. I guess that's why we all learn to use whatever grind we have and then have special grinds on other tools for different cuts.

 

[robo hippy]

As near as I can tell, the only real difference in the variations of swept back/Irish/O'Donnell/Ellsworth grinds is that some want a more straight wing, and some prefer a slight arc. Those of us who platform or free hand sharpen tend to have more obtuse/blunt angles on the wings than you get when you use gouge jigs which won't roll over as far. I can't tell if that really makes any difference. Only possible one I think may happen is that a more acute wing angle may do a slightly better/cleaner cut when shear scraping than a more blunt edge like my standard scrapers do which have a 70 degree bevel...

robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Folks, not since waiting for Guilio Marcolongo to arrive to Maui I have been so excited! Stu is here, the Big Island now, he's coming to Maui Wednesday morning. We had several other "celebrities" come over, Betty Scarpino and Dixie Biggs, but we found them other lodging. Stu will be staying with me 5 days... On Wednesday I'm planning on taking him way up the mountain, where the views are unbelievable and I will show him the Koa forest where I have been harvesting lately... I know enough woodturning to know and realize that I don't know much. I'm completely open to learning from guys like Guilio and Stu. Believe it or not, some guys are set in their ways, happy with what they are doing, and have not even bothered to join the only AAW club in the Island. One of them asked me, "Why would I want to join your club" I hope when I come back in my next life I'm also a turner, maybe in a few lifetimes of learning I won't have to sand anymore and hopefully I will finally master the skew.
I got to meet and talked some with Stu in Portland, still, I'm still a little "Star struck", LOL. I will be having a one on one with him, hopefully, in my shop, then a club demo, then a hands on with 2 other club members. That would leave him one full day to relax and maybe go to the beach, clothing optional, but if I can afford it, I will keep him hostage in my shop. Aloha from Maui

On my third day on 2 on 1 private instruction with Stuart. Today we made lots of pommels practice, straight and round. We then made 3 natural edge bowls. I made 2 out of Milo and one spalted tamarind. Amazing final product. I'm still in awe at his knowledge, technique, craftsmanship, all around nice guy. 3 more days!! Wayne Omura is also taking the clases.
Delete Edit

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I'm still playing with the 40/40 grind but it's too steep for my style of bowls. I can reach in better with a grind of about 50 or 55 degrees. I also use the wing of the gouge for a lot of cuts or removing lots of material similar to the way Mike Mahoney and Glen Lucas do. I ended up making my 40/40 gouge about 45/45. When I need a really clean cut and reach for either my Hunter tool or a spindle gouge. I find 2 things that improve the cut quality. The angle of the cutting edge (the more acute the cleaner it cuts) and not forcing the cut. Just to learn I will frequently make several passes on the outside of a mirror using different tools. Sometimes you can really tell a difference between a gouge ground more blunt and the 40/40. Sometimes not. Since my mirrors are somewhat flat I can often use a spindle gouge ground at 35 degree angle and it will cut cleaner than the 40/40. I still don't understand exactly why the Hunter tool will cut so clean because the cutting angle is roughly 60 degrees. It has to be the smaller radius of the cutting tip and the polished inside. That's the only thing that can explain it. That also may be why my Thompson V cuts pretty clean on push cuts. It's ground about 55 degrees but leaves a very clean surface most of the time and it has a small radius tip and I hone the inside flute with a diamond fish hook sharpening tool.
Not saying that I couldn't learn something from Stu. I've seen him demo several times but never taken a class. I have tried his techniques and they seem to work I'm just not sold on the 40/40 grind for my turning.

John, I do 90% of my work with Koa. Koa has a reputation of been difficult to cut. That reputation has ended, LOL. What used to take me endless push cuts, and then lots of sheer scraping with the Ellsworth gouge, I can do it in half the time or less, with better results. I won't give up my Ellsworth grind, I'm sure I will have to use it with some woods. Different woods, different grinds, angles, styles etc... I wish turning was one size fits all, but, every timber is different, and every bowl we make is different, so many darn variables! But, that is what makes it interesting and addicting! For the bowls that I make, the 40/40 is amazing...

 

[Dean Center]

Emiliano,
Can you describe what adjustments you've had to make to get the new grind to work for you? Most of us won't be able to spend 3 days with Stuart and we'll need to try the grind out on our own. What are we doing now that we'll have to stop or change? In particular, how do you get around the transition zone with such an acute an angle?

PS The Spaceman Spiff photo is much better than the elbow photo at showing off your appealing mug.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Emiliano,
Can you describe what adjustments you've had to make to get the new grind to work for you? Most of us won't be able to spend 3 days with Stuart and we'll need to try the grind out on our own. What are we doing now that we'll have to stop or change? In particular, how do you get around the transition zone with such an acute an angle?

PS The Spaceman Spiff photo is much better than the elbow photo at showing off your appealing mug.

The 40/40 is very specific, you can only get it by hand grinding. I made every possible mistake you can make by hand grinding, proved to be useful, I learned from each mistake. Took me 2 full days to get it sort of respectable. You have to know what you are after to be able to do it. It's the opposite of a Ellsworth grind. You want a pointy point, tight radius, not flat, and straight wings, not curved... And the bevel very small, 1/8 inch or less, so you need a very large secondary bevel. You use the 40/40 for most of the bowl. In most, you will need a second gouge, thats the catch. But I already have it, a U bowl gouge, a bottom gouge. Again a secondary bevel, and for example, for a calabash, I had to use 3 different angles to do the bottom, a very small bevel of 40, then 50, then 60. A 24 inch handle is necessary for the torque, to keep a 5 to 1 ratio... I ordered a 36 in handle today...
Heard from some other turners from the other islands. Nobody has ever seen the Koa cut do clean, it's truly amazing. I know I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity of working in my shop for 6 days with Wayne Omura and Stuart Batty. Wayne and I learned more in a week than in the last decade, lol Let me know if you have any more questions. Aloha

 

[Charlie Knighton]

U should add" asb" to your signature on your work

 

[Wayne Omura]

I was with Emiliano taking Stuart's class and I have to agree with Emiliano on Stuart's skill and techniques. Stuart is amazing and I believe the 40/40 grind and teaching techniques are the reasons. As I told Stuart that he really gave a lot of thought in the physics involved in turning. Stuart replied that he needed to do this in order to help in being able to explain the concepts in his teachings. The techniques taught by Stuart need to be practiced like anything else as the guiding principles to make these glass smooth slices in end grain and glass smooth peels in side grain has to become second nature. I know it can be done as both Emiliano and myself were making these cuts and smiling that we could actually accomplish this technique. There is a technique in the shape and sharpening of the 40/40 grind. The actual cutting bevel is short resulting in the glass smooth surface as that edge does the cutting or peeling with the wings clearing the surface waste. Any sort of rubbing of the secondary bevel creates surface ridges. Seeing this done by Stuart in person is unbelievable and doing this independently is simply gratifying. The class was a definite eye opening game changer. If you ever have an opportunity to take a class from Stuart I would recommend it for sure.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I was with Emiliano taking Stuart's class and I have to agree with Emiliano on Stuart's skill and techniques. Stuart is amazing and I believe the 40/40 grind and teaching techniques are the reasons. As I told Stuart that he really gave a lot of thought in the physics involved in turning. Stuart replied that he needed to do this in order to help in being able to explain the concepts in his teachings. The techniques taught by Stuart need to be practiced like anything else as the guiding principles to make these glass smooth slices in end grain and glass smooth peels in side grain has to become second nature. I know it can be done as both Emiliano and myself were making these cuts and smiling that we could actually accomplish this technique. There is a technique in the shape and sharpening of the 40/40 grind. The actual cutting bevel is short resulting in the glass smooth surface as that edge does the cutting or peeling with the wings clearing the surface waste. Any sort of rubbing of the secondary bevel creates surface ridges. Seeing this done by Stuart in person is unbelievable and doing this independently is simply gratifying. The class was a definite eye opening game changer. If you ever have an opportunity to take a class from Stuart I would recommend it for sure.

I was talking to Kelly Dunn today, I told him the same thing that Wayne mentioned, this was for me a game changer. I always say there are a few milestones in my career. When I ordered my Ellsworth gouge, simply because it was the only one that came with a users manual, a VHS tape, was my first milestone. Then, when David himself helped me with the sharpening of his gouge, and sent me to his friends house, just 5 minutes from mine!! Craig Lofton had invited David to Maui twice, and had taken his class in PA a few times... Another milestone, a before and after, was when I purchased my CBN wheels from David Ellsworth. A big one was, looking back, when I talked to Linda Ferber and she encouraged me to start a club... And now, a huge one, 6 full days, not just in the shop, after too, in the living room, at dinner and breakfast, with the best woodturner I have ever seen in person, Stu Batty. I ordered a few things from Woodworkers Emporium, a 36 in handle, and several adaptors for my Doug Thompson gouges. I bought from Stu a 24 in handle... Also Stu's round corners sharpening platform, super solid and great looking.... Today I put a big Cook Pine calabash on the lathe, just to practice , so much fun!!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Wayne, welcome to the AAW forum. Please add your AAW member number to your profile so that I can update your member status. Also, please take a few minutes to introduce yourself in the Introductions forum.

 

[Ronald Plumley]

The 40/40 is very specific, you can only get it by hand grinding. I made every possible mistake you can make by hand grinding, proved to be useful, I learned from each mistake. Took me 2 full days to get it sort of respectable. You have to know what you are after to be able to do it. It's the opposite of a Ellsworth grind. You want a pointy point, tight radius, not flat, and straight wings, not curved... And the bevel very small, 1/8 inch or less, so you need a very large secondary bevel. You use the 40/40 for most of the bowl. In most, you will need a second gouge, thats the catch. But I already have it, a U bowl gouge, a bottom gouge. Again a secondary bevel, and for example, for a calabash, I had to use 3 different angles to do the bottom, a very small bevel of 40, then 50, then 60. A 24 inch handle is necessary for the torque, to keep a 5 to 1 ratio... I ordered a 36 in handle today...
Heard from some other turners from the other islands. Nobody has ever seen the Koa cut do clean, it's truly amazing. I know I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity of working in my shop for 6 days with Wayne Omura and Stuart Batty. Wayne and I learned more in a week than in the last decade, lol Let me know if you have any more questions. Aloha

Okay,... you've piqued my interest. We had Ken Rizza from Woodturners Wonders out to the Apple Ridge monthly meeting tonight and I had his new helper put a 40/40 grind on a gouge for me. I'm going to give it a try and see what I think.

R

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Okay,... you've piqued my interest. We had Ken Rizza from Woodturners Wonders out to the Apple Ridge monthly meeting tonight and I had his new helper put a 40/40 grind on a gouge for me. I'm going to give it a try and see what I think.

R

You won't regret it. You do know it is a different technique right?

 

[Ronald Plumley]

Do you mean the grind or the use?
I figured it would be different in use and I've seen the grind being put on...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Do you mean the grind or the use?
I figured it would be different in use and I've seen the grind being put on...

The use is different. I bit different from what I have been doing...

 

[Tom Seymour]

What a fantastic opportunity. I watched Stuart at thePortland Symposium. He was amazing.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Fast Forward to January 25 & 26, 2019,

Tennessee Association of Woodturners 2019Woodturning Symposium

I spent two demonstration sessions with one of the hardest working wood turners in the business, Ashley Harwood. I have watched some of her videos with Batty, and without Batty, and she is definitely an admitted Batty disciple. I honestly have not given her enough credit up until now, but she is as amazing as Batty, and swears by the 40/40 grind and I have a whole new view of her and the 40/40. I asked Harwood some challenging questions while one-on-one in between sessions and she not only seemed appreciative, but asked me to bring them up during the next demo, which I did. One thing I mentioned is the radical idea of trying to get a predominantly grey haired & post retirement audience to forget about all the money we have spent on grinding jigs and accessories in order to easily achieve the ubiquitous 60 degree Ellsworth/ Irish/ Lucas/ etc grind. "Why can't I use my Ellsworth grind on that simple, easy, and effortless push cut you are doing? Because it won't be simple, easy, effortless, or clean."

The 40/40 is a no-jig, hand ground edge which I am looking forward to trying as soon as I get back to my shop.

Meanwhile, I'd like to know if there are any converts out there that have tried it and stuck with it?