Sanding your work

[Dave Fritz]

Emiliano, your post's interest tells me this is an under discussed aspect of woodturning. I guess it's a boring subject to most of us. I'm beginning to think I need to change my attitude toward sanding. As Robo said, he can spend as much time sanding as turning. I'm not surprised to see the discussion drift into tool control. It's a more familiar topic. At some point all wood most likely will be sanded and a finish applied, good or bad tool control.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

While I usually want to hear the various disagreements on techniques, it also usually disturbs me that many posters seem to feel their way of doing things is right . . . and, of course, it is - for them. We all have our own ways of doing things that yield results for us that meet our needs and standards. Sanding is a troubling process, especially for turned objects. I think this is true mainly because of the great possibility of tear out. This isn't surprising because there are a number of reasons tearout occurs, including the tools used during turning, sharpness of the tools used, technique used, skills used in employing the various techniques, whether the wood is wet or dry, species of wood used, and others I didn't mention and maybe haven't even thought of.

Therefore, sanding is many times used to remedy tearout, when it isn't a really great solution, especially for significant tearout. Don't ask how I've found that out but, suffice to say, I've had my share as I've learned about turning. So, my goal has been to eliminate tearout through sharpening and employment of techniques that keep tearout to a minimum. I'm not always successful and then, in the end, if I'm not satisfied with the end result, I either put the piece back on the lathe and re-turn till I'm satisfied or run out of wood or sand it until I'm either satisfied or just can't do anymore.

So I think we all have our ways and tools used to get a result that is satisfactory to each of us, depending on our skill level, the woods we use, and our sharpening capabilities (plus how patient we are).

I don't see anyone as completely right or wrong, just as a resource to provide me with possible techniques and information that might help me in the future.

 

[odie]

While I usually want to hear the various disagreements on techniques, it also usually disturbs me that many posters seem to feel their way of doing things is right . . . and, of course, it is - for them. We all have our own ways of doing things that yield results for us that meet our needs and standards. Sanding is a troubling process, especially for turned objects. I think this is true mainly because of the great possibility of tear out. This isn't surprising because there are a number of reasons tearout occurs, including the tools used during turning, sharpness of the tools used, technique used, skills used in employing the various techniques, whether the wood is wet or dry, species of wood used, and others I didn't mention and maybe haven't even thought of.

Therefore, sanding is many times used to remedy tearout, when it isn't a really great solution, especially for significant tearout. Don't ask how I've found that out but, suffice to say, I've had my share as I've learned about turning. So, my goal has been to eliminate tearout through sharpening and employment of techniques that keep tearout to a minimum. I'm not always successful and then, in the end, if I'm not satisfied with the end result, I either put the piece back on the lathe and re-turn till I'm satisfied or run out of wood or sand it until I'm either satisfied or just can't do anymore.

So I think we all have our ways and tools used to get a result that is satisfactory to each of us, depending on our skill level, the woods we use, and our sharpening capabilities (plus how patient we are).

I don't see anyone as completely right or wrong, just as a resource to provide me with possible techniques and information that might help me in the future.

Some good observations, and insight here, Randy.

Yes, you are correct that we all have to develop our own methods that work for us. I believe it was In the thread about "spiritual turning" where I mentioned it is possible to eliminate tearout completely......even on the most difficult of dense hardwoods! Anything less than that, and the only solution is use aggressive sanding to get rid of the tearout. The downside of excess sanding, necessarily results in altering the state of perfect geometry......and, that's the issue if the intent is to produce many fine details. I know this is a difficult thing for many turners to swallow, but I'm maintaining that the concept of "spiritual turning" is true.....and, I'm afraid the only way to truly understand it, is to experience it!

I tried to explain what "spiritual turning" is, and for those who read and responded to that thread, it's obvious that many don't understand....and, some strongly disagree. When I say "spiritual", that's exactly the word I intend to describe it......because eliminating tearout is possible through a very sensual experience, during the act of turning. It is a sensual process of observation and adjusting in response to those observations. These observations involve using three of our five senses....seeing, hearing and feeling the available input you're getting. Of course.....all the other things, like sharpness, tool selection and grind shape, technique, perfect rpm, balance of the piece harmonic with the rpm, etc,etc,etc......all come into play to get the desired result as well.....but, spiritual turning is a separate component that can be used effectively in conjunction with all the other necessary elements of that equation.

As you say.....all of us have our beliefs, and those beliefs come from the many differing experiences we have had.

-----odie-----

 

[Steve Worcester]

Somebody please explain this one. I have been wrestling with a comment on one of my earliest pieces for over 12 years. The fellow who started me turning, when shown a piece I had made and was reasonably proud of commented, "It's over-sanded". How can you 'over' sand something? What did he mean? What did he see that I couldn't? Why didn't I ask him these questions at the time??

This thread has brought out the most widespread sharing of experience and learning that I've ever seen on the forum. I've been looking for help with sanding forever, and apparently, I'm not alone. Yes, somebody who instructs clearly should put out a demo. It's clearly much needed.

Odie, the comment on proudly saying you start sanding at a particular grit was NOT directed at you. You have no way of knowing since you don't go to demos, but it's pretty common for the experts to comment on what grit they start sanding with, and I'm pretty sure it started with the Big Dog. They don't intend it to sound like bragging, but there's always a little hint of it anyway.

You can feel a piece that has been over sanded in that there is a dip between the rings, especially noticeable in a side grain bowl of a softer hardwood. There is a noticeable difference in densities between the early wood and the late wood on the annular rings. So when you sand, the softer portion gets abraded more than the harder portion.
Outside of that is it rounding out some detail, like a sharp edge, but I wouldn't call that over sanding as much as just not paying as much attention to the detail portion of the sanding.

And there will be an IRD demo coming up on sanding.

I have posted a few YouTube videos, one of them goes over basics of power sanding, using interface pads and mandrels. Certainly more to come on that topic.
Also have some stuff in our Vendor showcase demo 4/1-4/3

Videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNoBgcnWlqznebzOs2lB06g

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[Tim Tucker]

I think a discussion of this sort would benefit with some terms and definitions. Example: "Over-sanding". To some, that may be interpreted as too much sanding in general, or too much pressure - especially with lower grits, or sanding to a grit that is finer than what each individual believes is more than enough.
That is why I specifically chose the term "improper sanding" - because I think you can do a little sanding, or a lot depending on personal definition of how much is "enough". BUT....ANY of it can be done improperly. Too much pressure, against the grain -if hand sanding, skipping grits, using worn out paper...ad infinitum.
It is a big subject.....

 

[Marc Banka]

Going back to the main point being, how to sand to remove scratches efficiently and effectively. My approach.
I use hand held paper—1/4 sheet folded in thirds.
And 3 inch disks on soft holder.
I start with hand held in my staring grit, usually 80 to level any tools marks and clean-up any torn grain.
Follow with 80 grit on a disk, making sure to remove all of the radial scratches from the hand held paper.
(the paper usually leaves deeper scratches than the powered disk)
Then the next grit paper, hand held to remove the swirl scratches, followed by the same grit with a disk.
I repeat the process through 800 grit.
Then hand held 1000 and 200.
Finally a light buff with the white, non abrasive non-woven pad.

At this point the wood has a beautiful shine to which I apply a simple finish. Shellac and paste wax, or Walnut oil/microcrystalline wax.

Now, it might seem this method would take too long, but I think it’s ultimately faster than hoping and wishing you’ve effectively removed the earlier scratches only to find a 100 grit scratch after working with 220 paper! My method gives certainty. I sand for just a bit then check for the direction change of scratches. No guesswork.

 

[Doug Freeman]

@Marc Banka just curious whether you make NE bowls or other items with uneven rims/edges, do you hand and disc sand (I’m assuming the lathe is powered for hand sanding)?

 

[Marc Banka]

Yes, I do make NE pieces. Certainly requires a hybrid approach. Hand sanding (piece spinning) the continuous, lower sections is helpful, but ONLY in the full circle areas. I’ve tried holding the paper steady, or with a rubber backing, with a light touch, on the wings, but found that causes the leading edge to be rounded over.
The wings are sanded with a disk and lathe ‘off’.