Flat or oval skew?

[David Wrate]

My lathe came with a Henry Taylor oval skew. I was practicing tonight and found it very difficult to use as it tended to roll over as soon as it started cutting. I thought maybe I needed to tilt the blade so that the cutting edge was supported by the tool rest but it made it only slightly easier to control.
Watching a beginner skew video by Mike Waldt I see that all his skews are flat.
Are flat skews the norm?

 

[Dean Center]

In my opinion, oval skews are evil. They are much harder to control well and use without problems. However, there are capable turners here on the forum who use them with success. My strong recommendation for someone learning to turn is a standard skew, with a radiused end, and rounded corners on the short point side.

 

[David Wrate]

In my opinion, oval skews are evil. They are much harder to control well and use without problems. However, there are capable turners here on the forum who use them with success. My strong recommendation for someone learning to turn is a standard skew, with a radiused end, and rounded corners on the short point side.

Thanks Dean, I'll add a flat/standard skew to my tool rack.

 

[Dean Center]

When turning wood in spindle orientation, the rule is A-Anchor, B-Bevel, C-then Cut. The skew requires that you follow this rule and it will punish you if you deviate. Alan Lacer's DVDs on using the skew are very helpful.

 

[David Wrate]

Thanks, I'll keeps my eyes open for those.

 

[Brian Deakin]

I would exchange or sell the oval skew

Richard Rafen hates them
Woodturner21 probably one of the best exponents of the skew uses an Ashley Illes skew with rounded edges

Youtube.com/user/woodturner21/videos

Instagram.com/stevethewoodturner/?hl=en

Example video 2 methods using skew

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXeCCLOFpqX/

And
Instagram.com/p/CRQiSRPsFl9/?hl=en

 

[Pat Patterson]

If you get a skew, take the time to take off the 4 corners to slightly round them like you might take off the edges on a table top. This will give you better control and your tool rest will thank you . Belt sander is good for this
Pat

 

[Kirk Amidon]

All of my skews are flat. That said, a club member let me borrow his set of Sorby oval skews to test drive earlier this year. I found that they worked quite well, in particular I like the 1" and 1/2" sizes. I found them slightly easier to roll beads with, but can't really equivocally that the difference was the oval, as it could have been the sharpening and grind (straight vs rounded end) I guess I can say not a huge difference in use, but there is a huge difference in ease of sharpening - flat skews are easier. I currently have about 5-7 skews, as I acquired a bunch with a recent lathe purchase - no plans to buy any soon, but based on the test drive, the Sorby 1/2" oval would likely be on the short list. If only for having something different.

As others pointed out, rounding the bottom edges of the skew makes things much easier to control, and is easier on the tool rest.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

You might enjoy this video Alan Lacer-- Befriending the Skew I'm sure he discusses the evils of the oval skew in there at some point. More importantly he shows how to sharpen it and use it effectively and safely.

 

[Roger Ziegler]

I agree with Pat Patterson, when you get your new flat skew, slightly round off the 4 corners. You will be less likely to cause nicks and roughness in your tool rest. I use both flat and oval skews.

 

[David Wrate]

Thanks for all the great advice!

 

[robo hippy]

Woodturner 21 is a master. If I had spent as much time with a skew as I had with bowl gouges, I might be a master also. Allen Batty has an excellent video up on You Tube as well. He was a master. I have never tried an oval skew, and don't think I will. I would guess that the most important thing with it is learning to feel the bevel rub, and forget about feeling the tool flat on the tool rest. I have done a bit of playing with the skew. One variation I tried was a convex grind, which I learned from Eli Avesera. I did find it easier to cut shallow coves with but more difficult to cut a straight surface like a rolling pin. I have a couple of skews that are ground straight across. Woodturner 21 has all of his skews ground straight across, and at a very shallow angle, maybe 20 degrees or so, rather than some of mine which are more at 30 to 45 degrees. The ones I prefer have a slight straight area on the nose, then kind of a quarter round to the down hill side, similar to the grind I use on my scrapers. It just works for me. I do like to use peeling cuts a lot for roughing small things, and a 1 1/2 inch wide scraper that is straight across would put too much metal into the wood at one time. I am getting better with the skew... There may still be hope for me!

robo hippy

 

[David Wrate]

I watched a few of Woodturner21's videos and he is amazing with the skew. True mastery of the tool.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks Dean, I'll add a flat/standard skew to my tool rack.

I like the 1/2” rolled edge skew
It is like a flat skew with the edges pre-ground for rolling beads smooooothly.

Also like a 1/4” round skew

All my finials are done with these two skews and a 3/8 spindle gouge for coves.

 

[David Wrate]

I like the 1/2” rolled edge skewView attachment 47270
It is like a flat skew with the edges pr ground for rolling beads smooooothly.

Also like a 1/4” round skew

All my finials are done with these two skews and a 3/8 spindle gouge for coves.

That's a very subtle rounding but I can see how that would be very effective at smoothing the rolling action.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

My lathe came with a Henry Taylor oval skew. I was practicing tonight and found it very difficult to use as it tended to roll over as soon as it started cutting. I thought maybe I needed to tilt the blade so that the cutting edge was supported by the tool rest but it made it only slightly easier to control.
Watching a beginner skew video by Mike Waldt I see that all his skews are flat.
Are flat skews the norm?

My lathe came with a Henry Taylor oval skew. I was practicing tonight and found it very difficult to use as it tended to roll over as soon as it started cutting. I thought maybe I needed to tilt the blade so that the cutting edge was supported by the tool rest but it made it only slightly easier to control.
Watching a beginner skew video by Mike Waldt I see that all his skews are flat.
Are flat skews the norm?

Do yourself a BIG favor and watch this and learn all you can about Allan Lacer.
Alan Lacer Skew

 

[Pat Patterson]

You can pretty easily make an Lace skew out of hss bar stock from amazon or others. The only burdensome part is grinding down about 2" to make a tang to add a handle.
Pat

 

[RichColvin]

I have both sizes of the Lacer skew (from Hamlet), and they are awesome. They far exceed the oval and traditional flat bar ones.

 

[Michael Beswick]

I’ve only ever had and used an oval skew-18mm. The rounded “edge” makes moving along the tool rest easy but with the bevel riding, that rounded edge is just kissing the rest. In view of the compound angles in use it seems to me that tool rest height is more critical, particularly with planing cuts as the diameter reduces. To be honest I keep practicing- when it works the finish is superb but it many cases I can and do achieve the end result with other gouges.

 

[Kirk Amidon]

I have both sizes of the Lacer skew (from Hamlet), and they are awesome. They far exceed the oval and traditional flat bar ones.

How and why? What is it about them other than the grind/shape that sets them apart? Would love to know more details having never used them.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

My personal favorite is my D-Way skew, primarily because it came ready to use with all the corners properly rounded off. Some others required a lot of filing to get them right, and they're still not as nice as the factory finish on the D-way.

A diamond card hone is another secret to skew happiness-- sharp is good! (and remember to hone the points as well as the flats)

Alan does a better job of explaining the logic of his grind than I ever could, suggest watching one of the videos posted here. I find it makes many tasks much easier than the straight across grind. The "Lacer grind" can, of course, be applied to any skew pretty easily. Having the long point at 90 degrees makes the tool much more controllable in long point down cuts as well as facilitating peeling cuts.

 

[Jonathan Silwones]

David, I do little spindle work, so my use of a skew has a different focus. With that said, my oval skew is one of my top three tools for bowl work. Details mostly. I believe it has to do with the changing fulcrum as the tool rotates on the rest though the mechanics are a little fuzzy for me. Good luck!

 

[Bill Boehme]

My favorite skew is a Sorby 1" oval with slightly curved edge. If your skew is getting out of control then you’re not using it correctly. Generally, you should be using the lower third of the cutting edge regardless of leading with the toe or heel. I like the oval because I can get the support closer to the cut.

 

[David Wrate]

Ok maybe I need more practice Well clearly I do!

 

[robo hippy]

One thing that made a big difference for me was learning that the skew should be stropped. I find I have a burr, even if I go up to 8000 grit on a lapping plate. My skews seemed to cut fine in one direction, but not the other. Stropping the burr off changed that. I think the stropping can work like a diamond card. The compounds come in different grits. The cheap black bars I can get at the local Ace hardware store is supposed to be about 800 grit. You can get DMT diamond pastes that go to 15000. The other colors of honing or polishing pastes as the store calls them can vary a lot, but the jewelers rouge seems to be in the ultra fine range. Other colors do not mean any specific grit.

robo hippy

 

[David Wrate]

One thing that made a big difference for me was learning that the skew should be stropped. I find I have a burr, even if I go up to 8000 grit on a lapping plate. My skews seemed to cut fine in one direction, but not the other. Stropping the burr off changed that. I think the stropping can work like a diamond card. The compounds come in different grits. The cheap black bars I can get at the local Ace hardware store is supposed to be about 800 grit. You can get DMT diamond pastes that go to 15000. The other colors of honing or polishing pastes as the store calls them can vary a lot, but the jewelers rouge seems to be in the ultra fine range. Other colors do not mean any specific grit.

robo hippy

Thanks Reed, do you grind yours flat or with a hollow?
I have a 16,000 grit Shapton ceramic 'stone' that I use for honing my planes and chisels but I've never thought to use it for turning tools. I think because they are all curved so I scratch my head at how to maintain consistent angles.

 

[William Rogers]

Oval or flat is a individual preference. My preference is flat. Never did like my Sorby oval skews. My favorite skews are my Colin Way skews. They have a radiuses edge. I admit I use my skews as scrapers sometimes right off the sharpener, but when using as a skew I do strope it on leather with the green compound, grit ??

 

[GRJensen]

Alan Lacer told me once that oval skews were great ... for digging potatoes!

 

[RichColvin]

How and why? What is it about them other than the grind/shape that sets them apart? Would love to know more details having never used them.

The Lacer skews certainly have a great grind shape, but they also are quite hefty (thick) bars of steel. This matters as the corners need to be rounded off to make cutting easier. With such a large width, the rotation is smoother.

I have found that I can cut really well with these but not nearly as well with the oval or traditIonal ones (And I’ve spent years trying to use them).

 

[Bill Boehme]

So far as I can tell, Nick Cook and I are the only two people who prefer the oval skew over a flat one. We also agree that a Tormek is the only way to sharpen and hone a skew properly. I recently bought a set of diamond wheels for my Tormek, but I haven't yet tried sharpening my skews on them. I have sharpened some of my Neanderthal tools (chisels and plane irons). The diamond wheels work great for that, but as the instructions point out, it takes a little while to break in the diamond wheels. In the beginning, they are a bit aggressive and the finish isn't quite as smooth as it will be once broken in. The same thing is true about CBN wheels.

I have the large-size Alan Lacer skew. It's a bear to sharpen it on the Tormek. It is great for planing and peeling cuts and for cutting pommels on table legs, but too heavy and cumbersome for fine detail work. It's also pretty good for hammering wooden stakes into hard ground and cracking macadamia nuts.

 

[hockenbery]

Tormek is the only way to sharpen and hone a skew properly

I use the tormek if I have to grind
Also have the stop wheel attached which I use often

On a typical session of turning finials
I use a soft and hard Arkansas stones to sharpen at the start.
Then the strop before every finial

After many sessions on the stones I realign the bevel on the tormek

 

[robo hippy]

My skews are sharpened on the grinders, and I don't go beyond that, 600 or 320 grit, can't remember. I touch up on hones after that. The question of how sharp do you actually need it does come up. I am learning hand tools for flat work, and that seems to be a hot topic there as well. Some sharpen up to the 16000 Shapton stone, and then strop. I do have one of those stones, but haven't broken it out yet, but will do so in the near future. A demo that still sticks in my mind was Eric Loffstrom out of Washington. He took his skew and tapped the cutting edge on the bed of the lathe. Took it to a 60 grit CBN wheel, reground it, stropped it, and it took the hair off of his arm in one pass, and left a beautiful surface on his turnings. On a whim, I took a hand plane blade and sharpened it on a 220 stone, then stropped it. It does take a slight bit more pressure to cut, and for sure makes a different noise, but it still leaves a wonderful surface. Not quite as shiny as the one that I get from a plane blade that was taken to 8000 grit and then 3 different stropping compounds, last one being 15000. Working with hand chisels to find out the same thing, what works best. I do prefer the lapping plates from DMT, which go up to 8000 grit. Probably should try that one on my skews, just to see what it does. I have set aside some curly maple pieces from my firewood pile..... I have found that there is still a burr at 8000 grit, and this does not change even with feather light sharpening pressure. Cheap black polishing compound from the big box stores on a piece of MDF works great. There are auto polishing compounds which also work well.

robo hippy

 

[David Wrate]

For flat work tools I am proponent of the method Rob Cosman uses.

View: https://youtu.be/okLIEoz00v0

 

[Michael Beswick]

This set me off! I reprofiled my oval skew. It was at 30* and I felt it meant I had to use it almost flat. Trued up the Tormec, reprofiled, ground and honed it. Cut my thumb yesterday testing a spindle gouge-duh- so tried it on a piece of paper. It was sharp…..Now to practice!

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Not to get into the semantics of which skew or which way to grind but a little video watching. Alan Batty was a great teacher and you also might want to check out this video.
The Skew Chisel with Alan Batty

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I do have one of the Trend diamond plates, and the quality of it is not nearly as good as the lapping plates from DMT. The plates from DMT that have all the holes in them are on par with the Trend plate. The solid ones, the lapping plates and not the 'sharpening' stones, from DMT are much better, and pretty much dead flat. They do have 4000 and 8000 grit plates, and diamond stropping pastes up to 15000. I do have more 'experimenting' ahead to see if the stone leaves a better surface than the stropping pastes. I did try the 15000 stropping paste on some big leaf maple yesterday, and no real difference that I can tell, but I am not competent with the skew..... I can polish a bench chisel sideways or up and down, and the results are the same. My Trend plate is slightly concave on one side, the 320, I think, and convex on the other side. Still haven't gotten to the Shapton 16000 grit stone yet. DMT said to use water. A couple of other sources say to use automotive glass cleaner which doesn't have ammonia in it. Supposedly the ammonia can bother the electroplate bond of the diamonds.

robo hippy

 

[David Wrate]

Well, I do have one of the Trend diamond plates, and the quality of it is not nearly as good as the lapping plates from DMT. The plates from DMT that have all the holes in them are on par with the Trend plate. The solid ones, the lapping plates and not the 'sharpening' stones, from DMT are much better, and pretty much dead flat. They do have 4000 and 8000 grit plates, and diamond stropping pastes up to 15000. I do have more 'experimenting' ahead to see if the stone leaves a better surface than the stropping pastes. I did try the 15000 stropping paste on some big leaf maple yesterday, and no real difference that I can tell, but I am not competent with the skew..... I can polish a bench chisel sideways or up and down, and the results are the same. My Trend plate is slightly concave on one side, the 320, I think, and convex on the other side. Still haven't gotten to the Shapton 16000 grit stone yet. DMT said to use water. A couple of other sources say to use automotive glass cleaner which doesn't have ammonia in it. Supposedly the ammonia can bother the electroplate bond of the diamonds.

robo hippy

I know there were some quality issues with the Trend plates. I managed to get a flat one.

I'm not sure if going to a really high grit such as 16,000 matters that much in turning but it really makes a difference for flatwork.

 

[robo hippy]

It seems to. One channel I watch is Face Edge Woodworking. He sharpens on an old Norton India oil stone, which is about 400 grit, then strops the burr off. I am not experienced enough to be able to tell how much of a difference it actually makes going to far higher grits. For sure, a huge difference if you strop.

robo hippy

 

[David Wrate]

I watched some Alan Lacer videos tonight. That is some amazing skill!

 

[robo hippy]

Richard Raffen has one up on You Tube that he did for Fine Woodworking. No matter how many times I have watched it, I still jump when he gets a catch to start it off....

robo hippy