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First there were laminated bowls, then there were hollow forms.........

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Don, you do the tapered staves on a 3 axis router with a 4th axis add on, at least I would. Seems like most of the common CNC routers offer the 4th axis option in the under $500 range. I'm not into the current pricing of the better quality hobby CNC's. I would bet though a complete router with 4th axis would be substantially less than a top of the line wood lathe.

The tapered stave could also be done on a basic 3 axis router. Create a 3D model of the stave and let your CAM software determine the cutter paths. I don't like that way because to get smooth glue surfaces you need small step overs in the cutter path which take a long time.
 
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Back at the birth in 2022 of the Ornamental Turning section here when CNC issue was broached I was not a proponent of mixing the two and said so. Being a human being with a brain that remembers and can look back on decisions made one can change their mind about things. For many years when I started woodturning there was nothing but that woodturning was a lathe and a turning tool nothing else. Well after a while it's not hard to figure that it can be a lot more than that. It is a wide open category now with so many options to create so much in addition to the lathe. There is room in this hobby for everything, not a thing wrong with round and brown but the same goes for using anything else to enhance. You can love it or hate it, take it or leave it but it is here to stay and I'm sure it will go farther. The older I get the more I want to do as an addition to my woodturning. My Rose Engine, my lasers and my CNC are all going to enhance my woodturning with the only bad thing is that there are not enough hours in the day to learn and to play. So for me it is bring it on I welcome it all!
 
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There are a lot of problems with doing many of the things that the novice think can be done with a CNC machine. Most of what they think can be done could be if you had enough money to buy the machine with the bells & whistles to accomplish it.
Quite aside from the expense of a 4 or 5 axis router is the extensive training in 3d design, learning the foibles of a CAM program and controller and learning how to hold and machine the work without breaking things. Once mastered, those skills and the right machinery can produce amazingly intricate and precise objects. I'm sure CNC methods will become more widely used by a segment of the woodturning community, but it does distance the maker from the material in a way that will not appeal to everyone.
 
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I've spent the last couple years designing a bolt-on CNC for the woodlathe. This is not something that is intended for creating bowls, as Odie and others have pointed out, that takes away the handcrafted element that I think is important (and greatly enjoy). Instead, it is a machine that is intended for doing many different kinds of embellishments and can replace many of the jigs that people create to perform specific tasks. You can follow the evolution and get a sense for what it can do here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/BG8NHAd63CduHQvdA

Technically, it is a 4-axis CNC but it has a huge advantage over the traditional 3-axis CNC with the added rotary: you can also rotate the tool to bring it normal to any position on the workpiece. This lets you do things you would never be able to do with a 3+1 CNC.

I do plan on making the plans completely open-source, so anyone can build one themselves. In the next 6 months or so I will also have kits and fully-built versions for sale. It uses 100% free software
 

hockenbery

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can follow the evolution and get a sense for what it can do here
Quite impressive! Thanks for sharing the link.
Your Celtic sailors knot particularly caught my attention I’ve used a similar variation in sandcarving
You’re getting much more relief.
20230723_105320_Original.jpeg. IMG_2810.jpeg
 
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the only bad thing is that there are not enough hours in the day to learn and to play.

Or as one gets older, the bad thing slowly changes into "there are not enough YEARS in the life to learn and play."
Whatever we choose to do, have as much fun as often and as long as we can! And share as much joy with as many other people as possible!

I personally have never been attracted to those electronic and computer-controlled CNC things but support those who are. (I even gave away my "additive" computer-controlled machine, a 3D printer.)

My personal goal remains: learn to use and improve control of those tool thingies held by hand against the wood as it goes round and round. :)
I'm even passing on my Jamison hollowing system, Baxter threading jig, and Vermec sphere jig.

JKJ
 
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Quite impressive! Thanks for sharing the link.
Your Celtic sailors knot particularly caught my attention I’ve used a similar variation in sandcarving
You’re getting much more relief.
View attachment 67631. View attachment 67632

That is one I want to re-explore, as it was done in the pretty early days. I've streamlined a lot of things since then that allows more intricate work. This includes starting from a 3D model, as opposed to a 2D drawing.
 
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Quite aside from the expense of a 4 or 5 axis router is the extensive training in 3d design, learning the foibles of a CAM program and controller and learning how to hold and machine the work without breaking things. Once mastered, those skills and the right machinery can produce amazingly intricate and precise objects. I'm sure CNC methods will become more widely used by a segment of the woodturning community, but it does distance the maker from the material in a way that will not appeal to everyone.
This was a big consideration when I was developing my machine. I put a lot of time into the software side to make as simple as possible. For doing inlays (like pockets for pewa), it is as simple as measuring the diameter at the center of the cut site, selecting a shape from a library of templates, setting the cutter normal to the cut site, then clicking Run. The good thing is that you can use any typical 3-axis CAM software to generate Gcode, so those with some CAD/CAM experience can easily create their own templates (and it pretty easy to learn the basic to reach that point). Of course, the more complex the project, the complex the software solutions have to be create toolpaths.
 
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This was a big consideration when I was developing my machine. I put a lot of time into the software side to make as simple as possible. For doing inlays (like pockets for pewa), it is as simple as measuring the diameter at the center of the cut site, selecting a shape from a library of templates, setting the cutter normal to the cut site, then clicking Run. The good thing is that you can use any typical 3-axis CAM software to generate Gcode, so those with some CAD/CAM experience can easily create their own templates (and it pretty easy to learn the basic to reach that point). Of course, the more complex the project, the complex the software solutions have to be create toolpaths.
That's a very clever approach. I was thinking more along the lines of Nicholas Berchtold's work- 20 years of 3D modeling and what looks like a 5 axis router to produce his sculptural work- but using a 3 axis system to do embellishments on hand-turned work is far simpler yet opens up considerable new territory.
 
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Quite aside from the expense of a 4 or 5 axis router is the extensive training in 3d design, learning the foibles of a CAM program and controller and learning how to hold and machine the work without breaking things. Once mastered, those skills and the right machinery can produce amazingly intricate and precise objects. I'm sure CNC methods will become more widely used by a segment of the woodturning community, but it does distance the maker from the material in a way that will not appeal to everyone.
Some hobby CNC's come with Vectric software. Vectric is oriented to beginners and also serves more advanced users. It's well supported for even 4th axis work at a low price.

High end CAD/CAM is incredibly expensive with a matching price tag and learning curve, not really needed for most hobby type work.
 
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i was hoping to create a non-CNC setup using stepper motors; one to sense the rotation of the spindle then one to out put to a different motor to move proportionally to the spindle rotation. (like to create a curved router path. Arduino programming is more than I want to get into at the moment, though.
 
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I've spent the last couple years designing a bolt-on CNC for the woodlathe. This is not something that is intended for creating bowls, as Odie and others have pointed out, that takes away the handcrafted element that I think is important (and greatly enjoy). Instead, it is a machine that is intended for doing many different kinds of embellishments and can replace many of the jigs that people create to perform specific tasks. You can follow the evolution and get a sense for what it can do here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/BG8NHAd63CduHQvdA

Technically, it is a 4-axis CNC but it has a huge advantage over the traditional 3-axis CNC with the added rotary: you can also rotate the tool to bring it normal to any position on the workpiece. This lets you do things you would never be able to do with a 3+1 CNC.

I do plan on making the plans completely open-source, so anyone can build one themselves. In the next 6 months or so I will also have kits and fully-built versions for sale. It uses 100% free software
Paul, that's an incredibly impressive piece of work. It looks like you're using quality components. A wild guess is it'll cost more than a basic 4 axis CNC Shark machine from Woodcraft. Estimated cost?

Other than making the cutter normal to the work I don't see anything I can't do on my 4 axis machine (mine is a knee mill which gives me more Z axis than most routers). Generally if possible I try not to use ball nose cutters normal anyway because of the dead zone at the center.

Looking carefully at your pictures it doesn't appear it does v-carving for inlays, pewa inserts and text. That can also be useful for chip carving among other things. Picture shows a v-carve inlay of ebony into an unknow very hard wool Notice the sharp points.

inlay star.JPG
 
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Paul, that's an incredibly impressive piece of work. It looks like you're using quality components. A wild guess is it'll cost more than a basic 4 axis CNC Shark machine from Woodcraft. Estimated cost?

Other than making the cutter normal to the work I don't see anything I can't do on my 4 axis machine (mine is a knee mill which gives me more Z axis than most routers). Generally if possible I try not to use ball nose cutters normal anyway because of the dead zone at the center.

Looking carefully at your pictures it doesn't appear it does v-carving for inlays, pewa inserts and text. That can also be useful for chip carving among other things. Picture shows a v-carve inlay of ebony into an unknow very hard wool Notice the sharp points.

View attachment 67653
Thanks, Doug! The silver one you see in most of the pictures has high quality components (Parker linear axes with ball screws, linear rails). I got most of those parts from next to a dumpster, so the cost to me was...negligible. That was the first iteration, but as you note, using those components would cost quite a lot. As primarily an engraving machine (minimal cutting forces) that is bolting onto the lathe, it doesn't actually need quite the amount of rigidity I get from the nice components, so I settled on using OpenBuilds based C-beam extrusions for the linear axes. Right now, these use V-slot wheels on the gantry, but the next iteration will use linear guide rails. Those versions you'll see in a few shots with black aluminum extrusions. There are a number of trade-offs but some big advantages to that system as well (cost being the large one). The OpenBuilds version BOM is around $800.

Putting the cutter normal to the work is the magic sauce, though. If the cutter can reach it, I can cut the exact same pocket anywhere on a bowl (bottom, side, rim, even the inside) using the exact same starting gcode. I just have to account for the diameter at the cut site and the tool rotation, and my custom gcode sender will do all the coordinate transformations on the fly. Effectively, you end up cutting into a plane normal to the cut site. I have worked it out so you can even cut the pockets with flat bottoms (adds extra Z-depth at the cut origin) to fit inlays that are cut out on a 3-axis CNC/laser. Unless you have a very unique 4-axis mill I am not aware of, having the tool orthogonal to the rotary axis won't allow you to make those cuts at any arbitrary position on the work piece.

The machine is fully capable of V-carving. You can use any 3-axis gcode and the software I've worked on will convert Y movements to A rotations (based on diameter) and will alter X and Z coordinates based on tool rotation (B axis angle). I've found V-carving in curved surfaces much trickier than doing it on flat pieces, because since you are working in a plane, the work piece falls away where you have most of the v-carving (edges). The only real solution is to make deeper cuts, which isn't always an option. EDIT: Or use specialized software (GrblGru) which can do this.

It doesn't end there though. Obviously, lots of laser possibilities, and there are some photos/videos of thread cutting, which is the latest thing I've added. You just put in the parameters and it writes the gcode for you: 1728950843881.png

That's probably more info than most others care about! I'd love to chat more about it in direct messages, or if anyone is interested, I have a Discord server where I am providing support (right now it is just for the couple of people that are Beta testing machines).
 
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i was hoping to create a non-CNC setup using stepper motors; one to sense the rotation of the spindle then one to out put to a different motor to move proportionally to the spindle rotation. (like to create a curved router path. Arduino programming is more than I want to get into at the moment, though.
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but take a look.
 
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