Bowl steady tips?

[Charlie Knighton]

Heh,heh,heh...... Yeah, you know it, Zach!......It's a joke that has an element of truth, and that's what makes it funny.....and, VERY applicable!

You know, Zach......I think some of us turners may be surprised with how many new (and even some "experienced") turners have no concept of how many things MUST come together, in order to have any real degree of success. New turners come, and they go.......most of them (as I see it) will initially have a great deal of enthusiasm, because they have learned that no matter how bad a tool finish they end up with, the power sanding will bring their turning to a reasonable conclusion. In my opinion, it's the lack of sanding that is the real key to success. The less sanding that is required, the less variation from a pure geometric shape is possible. Of course, it's not possible to entirely eliminate sanding, but striving for that goal is that which becomes a springboard to success. Yes, I do believe the OBS is one notable contraption available to us that is worthwhile to pursue, and it's performance can be improved upon.....with the notation that it will never be any more than one small part of a very big overall equation. If ALL those other elements of the "big picture" are not successfully addressed.....then no matter how much any one component of the equation is individually successful.....the overall result will not be as aesthetically appealing as it could have been.

Because quite a few turners require excessive sanding, it's the main reason why so many of them pursue "embellishment"......because embellishment is not dependent on a pure geometric shape....... (Note: This is not to disparage the many beautiful turnings that are accomplished through embellishment.....but, there is embellishment as one aspect, and excellence in the mechanics of turning on the lathe......two entirely different things.

ko

I believe that Turner's seek embellishments is because they are not ready to be finished.

 

[Bill Boehme]

it's the lack of sanding that is the real key to success

... and all this time I thought it was money that was the key to success. I need to get a new financial advisor ... one who is less abrasive.

 

[Odie]

Here is an example of when one may wish to use the OBS scissor arms locked down, and not use the spring. Along the rim of this maple burl, there are some voids, which I wish to keep. If I use the spring pressure, the wheels tend to dip down into the big void, and the result is thump, thump, thump, as the bowl spins on the lathe! By locking down the scissor arms, the rubber of the contact surface will dip into the void only that amount the rubber compresses where there isn't a void. In this state, you can still hear the wheels running over the void, but less in intensity.

ko

 

[Odie]

I finished the bowl this morning.....except for the foot, as it's still attached to the waste block right now. It's the same one as in the above post.

With the exception of bringing the roughed bowl back to round, I used the OBS every step of the way. I tested whether the OBS was helping several times, and found that it was. It's easy to test......lock the scissor arms full open with the wheels not touching, while making a cut......and then use the wheels, while doing the same cut. You can tell by the sound, or feel, if the OBS is helping.

Some places, like the undercut rim, and (not shown) where the rim tapers into an inside angle on the exterior. These trouble places would have been much more difficult without the stabilizing effect of the OBS. Most surfaces started at 320......one at 220, and the interior started sanding at 100.

ko

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Very nice piece Odie. So, now I want to know what grit you ended up with on the sanding, and what the finish is? It is a beautiful looking finish from where I sit.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, that bowl with its little gaps and voids is a good illustration of the benefit of being able to start sanding at a fine grit. It's a common occurrence to see pieces such as that where the edges of a void have been rounded over by sanding. It's one of those fine points that don't bother many people, but having nice crisp edges around natural defects and edges is something that I pay attention to.

 

[Odie]

Very nice piece Odie. So, now I want to know what grit you ended up with on the sanding, and what the finish is? It is a beautiful looking finish from where I sit.

Tom.......I believe there were one or two surfaces that started sanding at 220, and the rest of the exterior surfaces started at 320. The interior started sanding at 100. The finish is Watco Danish oil natural.

Odie, that bowl with its little gaps and voids is a good illustration of the benefit of being able to start sanding at a fine grit. It's a common occurrence to see pieces such as that where the edges of a void have been rounded over by sanding. It's one of those fine points that don't bother many people, but having nice crisp edges around natural defects and edges is something that I pay attention to.

Bill.......

If you get close up, there is some minor rounding of the edges, but still looks pretty crisp. I don't think it's possible to sand on the lathe and not get some amount of rounding over on the corners of voids.......but, you are right......it is definitely an indication of a finer aesthetic point to consider, and the higher the grit you can start sanding at, is a major key to keeping the edges looking crisp and clean, without noticeable rounding over.

These three places are the "trouble" spots I was talking about. If a clean tool surface with the minimum of sanding required isn't done in these areas, there will be an exceptionally difficult time sanding here without major distortion. The OBS helps to make this possible.......

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

I try to hand sand such details like that, but it's getting difficult to do since I tore my right shoulder rotator cuff last year. My head thinks I'm still twenty, but my body knows that I'm a half century older.

 

[hockenbery]

The two outside spots where the arrows point to inside corners can be cleaned up with a Al Stirt style scraper to where they won't need but a hand sanding with 320. Al does those details as well as crisp details on the peaks of flutes cut with the scraper. A bowl steady isn't needed to get a crisp detail so much as a light touch with the tools.

The bowl steady can certainly work. Depending on choice of tools, design of the piece, type of wood, size of the work, amount of touch with the tools.... the bowl steady may yield better results. Kelly's experiment reported getting better results with the steady so it makes sense to use it.

If you ever get a chance to see a turner like Al Stirt, Stewart Batty, and many others turn inside corners where the wide rim meets the bowl you will see crisp clean results from a gouge followed by crisper cleaner results from a scraper. It's the touch.... of course those guys have a bit more skill than us mere mortals.....

Nice curve on the bowl..

 

[Gretch Flo]

"Odie, that bowl with its little gaps and voids is a good illustration of the benefit of being able to start sanding at a fine grit. It's a common occurrence to see pieces such as that where the edges of a void have been rounded over by sanding. It's one of those fine points that don't bother many people, but having nice crisp edges around natural defects and edges is something that I pay attention to."

Bill Boehme


Hmmm. I make an effort to round over rim voids so sharp edges do not injure the carressor

 

[Gretch Flo]

Odie, that bowl with its little gaps and voids is a good illustration of the benefit of being able to start sanding at a fine grit. It's a common occurrence to see pieces such as that where the edges of a void have been rounded over by sanding. It's one of those fine points that don't bother many people, but having nice crisp edges around natural defects and edges is something that I pay attention to.

Bill Boehme

Hmmmm-I make an effort to round over rim defects to avoid injury to the carressor!!!!!

 

[Gretch Flo]

"Odie, that bowl with its little gaps and voids is a good illustration of the benefit of being able to start sanding at a fine grit. It's a common occurrence to see pieces such as that where the edges of a void have been rounded over by sanding. It's one of those fine points that don't bother many people, but having nice crisp edges around natural defects and edges is something that I pay attention to.

Bill Boehme"

Hmmm-I go to great efforts to round over riim defects to avoid injury to the carressor Gretch

 

[Bill Boehme]

Some things are worth repeating ... repeating ... repeating ...

 

[Odie]

It's the touch.... of course those guys have a bit more skill than us mere mortals.....

Heh,heh,heh.......

A few years ago, I had a discussion with one of the AAW board of directors about how some people seem to give "divine" status to a select few turners. The general conclusion was, there are a thousand turners who are every bit as capable as those who have attained some degree of cultural status among those who consider themselves to be....."mere mortals".....!

I suppose some people need this sort of mentality, but from another perspective, there is an alternative belief that this sort of thinking is exactly that which ultimately holds one back from ever achieving their goals.

ko

 

[Charlie Knighton]

U mean if I practice and where Mikeal Jordan Nikes, I should be like Mike.......I sort of believe that there are a few Turner's that are in another zone, and they can articulate their perspective.....It really is amazing some rotations by certain Turner's

 

[hockenbery]

The general conclusion was, there are a thousand turners who are every bit as capable......

there is an alternative belief that this sort of thinking is exactly that which ultimately holds one back from ever achieving their goals.

ko

Kelly,

IMHO a person has to see a few world class turners in order to have an informed opinion about them. I encourage you to go to Kansas City this year. It won't corrupt your journey to become awestruck by the Demonstrations, gallery shows, instant gallery, and trade show.
Until we have seen another turner turn, the best turner we have seen is us- a seemingly limited perspective.
AAW Sympsoium provides an intense overwhelming perspective about what is out there.

A thousand tier one turners is way beyond what I would consider tier 1
Regarding top tier turners my perspective is based upon:
1. classes early on with o’Neil, Ellsworth, Burchard, Peterson, Michelson.
2. Working with Bosch, Jamieson, Stirt, Clewes, Drozda, & Ellsworth at Md Hall and local club classes.
3. Running a couple of AAW Symposiums and serving about 8 years on the AAW Symposium committee.

In my opinion there are three levels of turners demonstrating.
Tier one – international level get invited to the AAW, Utah, & other countries to turn.
Tier two – national turners get invited to multiple regionals and get accepted to the Aaw
Tier three – do demos at clubs once in a while.

Roughly there are
100-150 tier one turners world wide
200 tier two turners in the US
700-1000 tier 3 turners.

There are also a few hundred excellent studio artist turners out their who do not demo or teach.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Here's the resume of a tier 1 turner. So far, my pieces are in the "collections" of friends, neighbors, relatives, and a handful of strangers. Not quite tier 1, yet. I'm still waiting on that call from the Masons.

Being a world class turner is a lot more than being exceptionally skillful in producing pieces with perfectly crisp details, flawless surfaces, and flowing curves that are pleasing to the eye. I think that I'm a decent turner, but I'm always pushing myself to do better. I have been exposed to a number of world class and national turners as well as many average turners like myself and that hasn't hurt me one bit. Quite the contrary, it has shown me the great diversity that exists in our craft and that everybody has something to bring to the table.

The interaction and sharing that takes place on this forum benefits us all, but face-to-face interaction is a level beyond that.

One example of my learning is when I took a class from Cindy Drozda. Learning her techniques for the incredibly crisp details that she does that don't need sanding was just a part of the class. The greatest benefit was gaining a greater appreciation of form, proportion, and leading lines and creating a piece where everything "fits".

 

[Odie]

It's interesting to note that "world class turners" don't necessarily share the opinions of those who are followers.....and, the thoughts expressed don't necessarily become that which they are willing to convey publicly. It's all about the public persona, which may not coincide with their own private beliefs. In that conversation I mentioned, it was suggested that not everyone is in agreement on what constitutes what a "world class turner" is, as the definitions, as well as who is to be considered among that group, is subject to interpretation, acceptance, and personal evaluation of those within, as well as outside of that group. There are those who wish to establish, or define boundaries according to a set criteria which is applicable to the culture......and, the culture's established policies and beliefs are something that is engineered within the culture......to the exclusion of those who don't row the boat with the rest of the group.

ko

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Well, to be considered, you must partipate within side by side in variety of forms.....Say as an example "the volcano"

 

[Odie]

Well, to be considered, you must partipate within side by side in variety of forms.....Say as an example "the volcano"

Hi Charlie......Yes, I think those who do aspire to that, should work within the limitations set by the culture. Those who don't, have a perfect freedom to decide where their own boundaries are!

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

Well, we could quibble over who is a world class turner, but it is a figure of speech and not a formal recognition. The term world class is applied in many areas to acknowledge somebody's achievements.

You referred to limitations. I believe that limitations are mostly self imposed. Here is the link to the catalog for "Rising" an AAW invitational and juried exhibition. The results show that those accepted rose to the challenge by not restricting their creativity.

 

[hockenbery]

Well, we could quibble over who is a world class turner, but it is a figure of speech and not a formal recognition. The term world class is applied in many areas to acknowledge somebody's achievements.

The organizations that run symposiums vote with their dollars. When they decide to invite and pay a particular turner they believe that turner will deliver a comenserate value product for them.

As individuals we would all make wildly different list because each of us will have seen wildly different set of turners.

 

[Odie]

As individuals we would all make wildly different list because each of us will have seen wildly different set of turners.

This, I can agree to, Al......I was going to say something very similar, until you said it, instead of me!

ko