Bowl steady tips?

[Odie]

There are only three possible scenarios where the OBS wheels will run true and without interference with various issues resulting from the rubber wheels compressing on the surface of your bowl: Anywhere along a parallel line to the spindle.....and with convex and concave surfaces, only a single point where it will intersect perpendicularly with a parallel line to the spindle, at only one single point. Ideally, these are the theoretical points where the OBS wheels should be located for best results, and should be maintained as close as possible.

At the moment, I only have one real world example of a convex, or concave surface where it illustrates the point where the OBS wheels should be located for best results. The photo illustrates where the wheels should be positioned on a concave surface, similar to the middle example in the above drawing. Note that the further the distance from the spindle to the outermost point of the bowl rim, the more tendency to vibrate.....so that should be taken into consideration when positioning the wheels. This is the point where the wheels will run as true as can be had, and will have the most influence on dampening any vibrations. (In the photo, if the wheels were positioned just to the right and on the very narrow parallel surface of the rim.....that would also be a good place to position the wheels.)

This all brings to the forefront another incongruity, which is not consistent with what is logical.......specifically because the width of the scissor arms themselves results with the two wheels not running true to one another. In order to solve this problem I have made up a special jig for positioning the two wheels so that they are running true to one another:

In this photo below, it shows that longer bolts have been substituted for the shorter bolts that came with the OBS as supplied by the manufacturer. This substitution allows for multiple washers positioned strategically.....with the specific purpose of bringing the two wheels in perfect alignment with each other.

There is an ascribed line on the jig that allows you to see exactly where the wheels make contact, and align with each other. Use this visual indication to add and subtract washers to accomplish the goal of both wheels running in alignment with each other, as close as possible.


ko = burning the midnight oil.....! 🙄

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Interesting thread....

If chatter is the main concern in using various steadying methods there may be another way to help with the chatter. Automotive machine shops that surface brake drums wrap a giant rubber band around the outside of the drum to dampen chatter. I've only tried it on a small diameter bowl with thin walls and it helped quite a bit.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Funny you bring up rubber bands, I was considering heavy gauge o-rings wrapped around a guide pulley
on several sides of the ways encompassing the item being turned. With 3 or 4 of these equally spaced around the billet you would provide support for the billet and it would be easier to apply and remove the "rubber bands"
from the billet. Adjusting inline skate wheels around the billet can be a pain sometimes trying to get them
adjusted for the diameter of the billet and equal pressure from each wheel on the billet.

I can see where a large diameter rubber band would work on a thin walled vessel when turning. Rubber inner tubes are a cheap and easy way of finding the different diameters needed for wood turners needs. These also
work nice when putting segmented rings together.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Rockler Hardware used to sell bags of large rubber bands that we're about 3/4" wide, very thick and different diameters. Originally I used them for holding glue ups, but then discovered that they were also useful to wrap around hollow forms to help dampen vibrations. I don't know if they are still available, but my local store was getting rid of them.

 

[Odie]

I have modified the profile of the OBS wheels into a "V" shape, so that the original "fat balloon tire" shape didn't interfere with some shapes I've been using......such as this one:

If I hadn't reshaped the wheel profile, I couldn't have snugged up so close to the flared rim. Because of this, the rubber on the tip of the "V" seems to have been altered in how "spongy" the wheel surface is (because it's less wide). This may have led to better results with eliminating vibrations overall. Anyway, I'm not completely sure of that, and regardless, the "V" shaped wheels are more suitable to negotiate more intricate bowl shapes.

The wheels are easily altered by using a 60gt sanding disc while the wheel is spinning against the wheel spacing jig I mentioned in the last post.....like so:


ko

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The nice thing about using my single wheel when set at center height, it can be set at any angle to flat concave or convex surface, even when not at right angles with them.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

So far I've managed to avoid pulling out my steady rest on most thinner bowls since starting this thread. I improvised on Bill's idea about the leather gloves. Since I can't stand wearing gloves, I've been sanding the outside of the bowl to 4-600 before finish cuts on the interior.

The rubber band idea is interesting. Part of the reason it seems we get vibration in thin forms is from the varying densities of wood between side grain and end grain.

Great thread, everyone. Thanks for all the ideas, especially you, Odie—you've really gone the distance here.

 

[Bill Boehme]

... Great thread, everyone. Thanks for all the ideas, especially you, Odie—you've really gone the distance here.

Should we make Odie an honorary member of the herd for his contributions. 🙂

 

[Odie]

Should we make Odie an honorary member of the herd for his contributions. 🙂

OK, Bill......you made me LOL......! 😀

 

[Bill Boehme]

OK, Bill......you made me LOL......! 😀

Moo. Moo-o-o-ooo! 😀 That's the secret herd password

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've never felt a need for one. On the very large and thin basket illusion pieces that I make, I run the lathe very slow and grip the bowl wearing a heavy leather glove While beading the front and back.. I have my thumb of my left hand against the inside and palm against the outside to balance the force applied by my thumb when beading the inside. . . . .

. . . . . . I improvised on Bill's idea about the leather gloves. Since I can't stand wearing gloves, I've been sanding the outside of the bowl to 4-600 before finish cuts on the interior. . . . .

Zach, I found these pictures taken on the last basket illusion piece that I did. They don't show me gripping both sides with the glove while beading, but you kind of get the idea of what I was doing with the gloves here to dampen the vibrations while cleaning up the surface with a scraper.



And the view from the other side.



Why buy a new face seal for your respirator when you can use tape. I was out of duct tape so I had to make a substitution.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Thanks for the photos, Bill. Worth at least 2,000 words! 😀 That's a heck of a nice profile on the piece you're turning. Just right.

Yes, that left thumb is vital for guiding your tool into the bowl, especially with a gouge of course. I'd always done that with no glove, but you inspired me to sand the outside of the bowl first. Much better control and feeling, and not quite as warm.

I come from a long line of men who just never felt right wearing gloves. My dad was a journeyman machinist...heck even for welding, he never wore gloves. I make an exception when commercial fishing, but that doesn't mean I like it!

And nothing wrong with blue tape... I hear it's all the rage, now that everyone has run out of room for tattoos and piercings. 🙂

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

If I can give myself permission to go further off topic, I just heard a great comment from Swedish turner Ulf Jannson over on Instagram.

I mentioned that a bowl can be both beautiful to the eye and functional and still be a mediocre bowl—it needs to feel right in the hands.

Ulf replied, just go read up on the cortical sensory homunculous for the answer why. I had forgotten all about the crazy looking illustration of the man with giant hands and big lips. The short version of homunculous is that our hands take up a large percentage of brain real estate.

I'll venture to say that's a big part of why we love to work with our hands...that tactile feel, especially of turned objects. It says a lot about why a finished bowl or other turned object brings such satisfaction, even to those who aren't the turner. And it also answers in small part why gloves drive me crazy.

Boy, that's a long way from bowl steady tips...and yet, weight (and thickness) of a bowl is equally important to the feel of bowl.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I would rather burn some anamal's hide than my own and save my ability to appreciate feeling things with my hands for occasions where it isn't a destructive appreciation.

 

[Odie]

Boy, that's a long way from bowl steady tips...and yet, weight (and thickness) of a bowl is equally important to the feel of bowl.

That's ok, Zach......I've always been one who appreciates conversation with other turners on these AAW forums......no matter where the topic goes. There are those who maintain that threads MUST stay on topic, but that isn't like real life is. When engaged in a discussion, face to face, the topic nearly always shifts to tangents. The official policy on that is more appropriate for someone like Bill to comment on.....but, from my point of view.....this isn't a formal gathering of woodturners........it's better as a casual interaction.

To my thinking, if someone wants the subject to shift back to the main topic in a thread.......he needs to add some input to the thread, so that it does......! 😛

 

[Bill Boehme]

That's ok, Zach......I've always been one who appreciates conversation with other turners on these AAW forums......no matter where the topic goes. There are those who maintain that threads MUST stay on topic, but that isn't like real life is. When engaged in a discussion, face to face, the topic nearly always shifts to tangents. The official policy on that is more appropriate for someone like Bill to comment on.....but, from my point of view.....this isn't a formal gathering of woodturners........it's better as a casual interaction.

To my thinking, if someone wants the subject to shift back to the main topic in a thread.......he needs to add some input to the thread, so that it does......! 😛

I think that you summed it up quite well. Of course, we don't talk politics, religion, or hot rods ... and whatever else is liable to start an argument if it isn't woodturning related. Difference of opinion is to be expected when it comes to woodturning. Just recognize that other people's opinions are just as valid as your own ... or at least act like they are. The line between facts and opinions is sometimes rather fuzzy.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

If I can give myself permission to go further off topic, I just heard a great comment from Swedish turner Ulf Jannson over on Instagram.

I mentioned that a bowl can be both beautiful to the eye and functional and still be a mediocre bowl—it needs to feel right in the hands.

Ulf replied, just go read up on the cortical sensory homunculous for the answer why. I had forgotten all about the crazy looking illustration of the man with giant hands and big lips. The short version of homunculous is that our hands take up a large percentage of brain real estate.

I'll venture to say that's a big part of why we love to work with our hands...that tactile feel, especially of turned objects. It says a lot about why a finished bowl or other turned object brings such satisfaction, even to those who aren't the turner. And it also answers in small part why gloves drive me crazy.

Boy, that's a long way from bowl steady tips...and yet, weight (and thickness) of a bowl is equally important to the feel of bowl.

I totally agree with the notion that a bowl or HF can look very nice and yes you can use it as you like, but the moment you pick it up, that feeling of the wrong balance makes it a flop.

Ok to bring this back on topic, It might not be because there was no steady used while making them, but 😵 😕 😉

I have had this happen on a couple of occasions that stand out for me, one was a very good looking Hollow Form, at someones house, then as I had to pick it up of course, found that whomever made this, didn’t bother to make the inside bottom anywhere near the thickness of the rest of the piece, it just felt so bad and heavy to me, and I will always remember that, mind you it will collect dust as well as any very nice and thin walled HF 😉.

Another one was a turner that came to one of our get togethers, and we would bring some of our pieces we made along for just showing them, one of them that had been making very nice bowls from a board, brought that time a bowl he turned from a normall bowl blank, looked good and finished nice, but as soon as I picked it up, it didn’t feel right at all, as it had way to much wood still in the bottom, it felt so unbalanced and clunky, even as it was a good looking bowl, so yes for me it needs to feel right, also if your fingers feel the wall of a bowl, and you notice the uneven thickness, it becomes a mediocre bowl, yes I’m picky 😀

 

[Odie]

There have been times when I've been able to increase the effectiveness of the OBS, by using several wraps of Renfrew hockey tape on the surface in prep for using the OBS. This is possible, because the hockey tape is similar to medical bandage tape, in that it's a thick cloth tape. The sticky portion of the hockey tape tends to transfer to the pores of the bowl itself, so in preparation for the hockey tape, the surface is first wrapped with blue painter's delicate surface masking tape.

The delicate surface masking tape is laid down first:

Then two complete wraps of the Renfrew hockey tape is laid down:

I then use the spring pressure on the wheels against the tape and let it run for a minute. The result of this, is a little furrow is left in the tape where the wheels track. It tends to improve on an out-of-round condition by compressing more on the high spots, and less on the low spots.......get what is happening here?

This procedure can sometimes improve the effectiveness of the OBS in reducing harmonic vibrations caused by the cutting action of lathe tool to wood. Anything that can help increase the fineness of the tooled surface prior to sanding is well worth the time to do it.

Like any improvised techniques for the purpose, it sometimes works out beneficially, and sometimes it doesn't........but always well worth the effort when it does! 😀

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

This procedure can sometimes improve the effectiveness of the OBS in reducing harmonic vibrations caused by the cutting action of lathe tool to wood.

How were you able to determine that there were harmonics in addition to the fundamental vibration frequency?

 

[Odie]

How were you able to determine that there were harmonics in addition to the fundamental vibration frequency?

I may have used words that have resulted in some confusion here, Bill.......Any felt vibration I'm assuming to be harmonic in nature, because it is resulting from interaction between tool and wood geometry. For the purposes of understanding what I meant, I'm not making distinctions between the origins, or types of vibrations.....only that it exists, and can be dampened.😀

ko

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Odie, I'd like to see how that blue tape- hockey tape wrapped piece finished & turned out. Otherwise I won't believe it.

Also, I was just looking back at your first photo with your spring modification. Do you use the spring resistance only, and not tighten that wing nut?

 

[Odie]

Odie, I'd like to see how that blue tape- hockey tape wrapped piece finished & turned out. Otherwise I won't believe it.

Also, I was just looking back at your first photo with your spring modification. Do you use the spring resistance only, and not tighten that wing nut?

Tom......That example was put together specifically for the photo, and I removed the tape afterwards. The bowl is still out in the shop, and I haven't touched it since then. I have a basic idea of what I want to do with it, but seldom does the final turning ever turn out exactly like I envisioned it. When I get back to it, I may use the tape, and I may not. Like I said, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. With woodturning, sometimes you just have to use every little advantage in your bag of tricks to bring a piece of wood to a conclusion you are happy with.....and in the process, continue to self-improve.

You are welcome to believe what you want.......personally, I really don't care.......because I'm not here to instruct. I'm happy to give my opinions, and point out what I think is important. The bottom line is I am in it for me, and me alone. Take whatever I have to say, any way you wish. The real reason I'm here on these forums, is to keep my mind focused on all aspects of woodturning, and to get inspiration from others......in which I'm very much like everybody else is........sometimes the input inspires me to do some investigation and experimentation. That is where any value other's input has for me.......growth, in any way I interpret "growth" to be!

To answer your question: Yes, I have the option to either use the spring pressure on the wheels without locking down the scissor arms...........or, to bypass the spring's influence, and lock down the scissor arms. There are advantages to either method, and neither holds any universal advantage. You may be like I am, and have to try things repeatedly, before the light bulb clicks. 😱

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

I figured that Tom was just yanking your chain, Odie. 😀

About hockey tape. That's like speaking a foreign language here where the only ice is in our tea glass. 🙂 I'll have to look it up on the Internet. I suspect that I won't find it on the shelf in any store here unless its the same thing as some other kind of tape. What is it used for? hand grip on stick, wrap around your shin or elbow, or something else?

 

[Odie]

I figured that Tom was just yanking your chain, Odie. 😀

About hockey tape. That's like speaking a foreign language here where the only ice is in our tea glass. 🙂 I'll have to look it up on the Internet. I suspect that I won't find it on the shelf in any store here unless its the same thing as some other kind of tape. What is it used for? hand grip on stick, wrap around your shin or elbow, or something else?

Bill......The hockey tape is mostly used for wrapping hockey sticks, I think......gives it a better gripping surface. Anyway, I first used it to wrap dumbbells, and other exercise equipment. It's commonly available on Amazon and eBay.....that's where I get it.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

... You are welcome to believe what you want.......personally, I really don't care.......because I'm not here to instruct. I'm happy to give my opinions, and point out what I think is important. The bottom line is I am in it for me, and me alone. Take whatever I have to say, any way you wish. The real reason I'm here on these forums, is to keep my mind focused on all aspects of woodturning, and to get inspiration from others......in which I'm very much like everybody else is........sometimes the input inspires me to do some investigation and experimentation. That is where any value other's input has for me.......growth, in any way I interpret "growth" to be!
ko

Sorry if I offended you Odie, it was my lame attempt at being humorous.

 

[Odie]

Sorry if I offended you Odie, it was my lame attempt at being humorous.

That's quite alright, Tom.......probably some things need to be said anyway......specifically the point of how I'm not trying to be an instructor to anyone on these forums. (With my own son, this is an entirely different matter, though. 😎)

I do have my core beliefs and self-learned procedures concerning woodturning that tend to run contrary to popular opinion, at times. These things have brought me to confrontation with others about "right and wrong"......but, as long as it's understood that I'm not attempting to do anything but give opinions......then we all can digest each other's input from a perspective that promotes openness about giving those thoughts and ideas.

One suggestion I would make, is when using humor, take advantage of using the emoticons......😉 It's a difficult thing to convey tone when typing, and those little smiley faces go a long way to suggest the standpoint from which one speaks. 😀

ko

 

[Odie]

About that hockey tape......

Although I began using it for my exercise equipment, it morphed into other uses around my shop. Most significantly, it's usefulness has been great for me as a wrap for my lathe tools. This offers a little more "substance" to the feel, and I've had thoughts of it leading to just a smidgen of more control over that you get with bare wood. Anything that leads to that, is a good thing.......but, other than that, it does give a little "color coding" to the lathe tools.

I bought a bunch of the hockey tape that was advertised on a close out......so, have quite a few different colors and patterns available to use........😀

ko

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I figured that Tom was just yanking your chain, Odie. 😀

About hockey tape. That's like speaking a foreign language here where the only ice is in our tea glass. 🙂 I'll have to look it up on the Internet. I suspect that I won't find it on the shelf in any store here unless its the same thing as some other kind of tape. What is it used for? hand grip on stick, wrap around your shin or elbow, or something else?

Bill, hockey sticks are not cheap, and if you have a couple of boys playing, especially out on the road they wreck them in no time at all, so hockey tape repairs and extend the life of them.

The tape doesn’t last very long but some tape, even electrical is cheaper than another hockey stick, and yes some is used on the handle as well, there it will last much longer than on the end 🙂

Someone even made a video of something that every kid here already knows how to do 😉

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzPP292HHds

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks for the information, Leo. If I could read between the spoken lines in the video I would guess that the pro players don't tape up the stick because they don't want to obscure the brand. 😀

This has led me to wonder about the brooms that the sweepers use in the sport of curling and whether an opportunity is being overlooked by sporting goods manufacturers. 🙂

Curling seems to be a cross between bowling and chess while hockey ls sort of like rugby with sticks.

 

[RichColvin]

Odie,

What is the motivation for wrapping your lathe tools in tape ?

Kind regards,
Rich

 

[Odie]

Odie,

What is the motivation for wrapping your lathe tools in tape ?

Kind regards,
Rich

Hello Rich......It does add a bit to the feel......more "positive", and I can't help but think it gives me just a tad more control.....probably very subjective.

As a default, it becomes part of quick identification......🙂

ko

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks for the information, Leo. If I could read between the spoken lines in the video I would guess that the pro players don't tape up the stick because they don't want to obscure the brand. 😀

This has led me to wonder about the brooms that the sweepers use in the sport of curling and whether an opportunity is being overlooked by sporting goods manufacturers. 🙂

Curling seems to be a cross between bowling and chess while hockey ls sort of like rugby with sticks.

Bill I think they (pro players) can afford to pay for new sticks, if they don’t get payed for using someones sticks, then again tape makers could advertise their name also, who’s willing to pay for what is the ???, maybe Ford could advertise on the brooms, sweep the road clear from Chevys 😉 😀

 

[Odie]

Odie, I'd like to see how that blue tape- hockey tape wrapped piece finished & turned out.

Tom.......I finished that one this afternoon. Used the OBS, but didn't use any tape. The tape is useful occasionally when it's a bit too far out of round, but this one had minimal variation anyway.
It's English Walnut.......

ko

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Tom.......I finished that one this afternoon. Used the OBS, but didn't use any tape. The tape is useful occasionally when it's a bit too far out of round, but this one had minimal variation anyway. View attachment 21957
It's English Walnut.......

ko

Hi Odie,

That looks like a great shallow bowl. If I may ask...I would never think to put the OBS on something that small or seeming to have a substantial rim like...can I ask what the OBS does for a bowl like that? Thanks!

And a small question...do you use a gear wrench or anything a bit faster for the bolt that attaches the OBS to the ways? I thought about using my el cheapo smaller banjo since I upgraded to a Robust banjo. That would mean talking to my machinist to turn a 1" shaft on big solid shaft for the OBS. For some reason, a regular wrench just feels a little slow to me.

Again: I appreciate all the sharing of your OBS experience.

 

[Odie]

Hi Odie,

That looks like a great shallow bowl. If I may ask...I would never think to put the OBS on something that small or seeming to have a substantial rim like...can I ask what the OBS does for a bowl like that? Thanks!

And a small question...do you use a gear wrench or anything a bit faster for the bolt that attaches the OBS to the ways? I thought about using my el cheapo smaller banjo since I upgraded to a Robust banjo. That would mean talking to my machinist to turn a 1" shaft on big solid shaft for the OBS. For some reason, a regular wrench just feels a little slow to me.

Again: I appreciate all the sharing of your OBS experience.

Howdy Zach.......

I'm not in the shop right now, but I believe that English Walnut bowl was about 7" diameter. If it makes the difference between start sanding at 320, rather than 240, it's well worth using the OBS......even on smaller bowls. I pretty much use the OBS on everything these days. The OBS is only a fraction of the total equation. Sharp tools, and good presentation/technique are also major factors. Starting at the highest possible sandpaper grit is where it's at......! The less sanding you do, the better pure geometric shape you can maintain. The better pure geometric shape you maintain, the better the details will appear to the eye.

I'll try to remember to take a photo of the bolt for the OBS bedway adapter. I've modified mine to better snug it up with my fingers.......still using a box end wrench to tighten it down......only about 1/4 turn to lock it in place after taking up the slack with my fingers. It's actually pretty quick......😀

Let us know if you end up using your old banjo for the OBS......that sounds like an interesting modification.🙂

ko

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Thanks, Odie. You mean I can't just attack the bowl with a dull tool and have all sins forgiven when using the OBS? 😀 Dang!

Seriously now, you've inspired me to try the OBS when I wouldn't think otherwise to try it. I'd definitely use the OBS frequently if I could save much of any sanding time. Even if I broke even on set-up time, I'd do it. Sanding just ain't fun...I bought some wireless headphones, so now I listen to a bit of a podcast while I powersand (never while turning) and that takes the drudgery away.

I'm well aware that I may get different results than you (different woods, different tools, different experience, etc.), but I'll give it a shot soon with the OBS on a number of bowls I wouldn't have thought to. Sometimes it seems to take a while before a good technique pays off, so I'll hang in there for a while if need be.

And yes, I'll keep in touch if I modify the OBS to fit the crummy banjo.

Have a good evening.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

A simple mod of an adjustable handle makes the adjustment a snap.

 

[Odie]

I'll try to remember to take a photo of the bolt for the OBS bedway adapter. I've modified mine to better snug it up with my fingers.......still using a box end wrench to tighten it down......only about 1/4 turn to lock it in place after taking up the slack with my fingers. It's actually pretty quick......😀

OK, here's the modified bolt and box end wrench. The bolt head is flattened on two sides to make it more compatible to using fingers to take up the slack......sort of like a wing nut. The original bolt doesn't protrude very far, so this was my thinking for keeping it.......to address "clearance" concerns. Once the slack is taken up by rotating the bolt with my fingers, the box end wrench is used.....only a matter of about 1/4 turn to snug it down. The box end wrench is flattened for access when the clearance is minimal. The box end wrench hangs on my accessory table that sits between the bedways.

ko

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Nice job, Odie. Like you, my father is a machinist, and he's always modifying that sort of thing. I love that spirit.

I should have thought of that sooner!

 

[Odie]

Thanks, Odie. You mean I can't just attack the bowl with a dull tool and have all sins forgiven when using the OBS? 😀 Dang!

Heh,heh,heh......😀 Yeah, you know it, Zach!......It's a joke that has an element of truth, and that's what makes it funny.....and, VERY applicable!

You know, Zach......I think some of us turners may be surprised with how many new (and even some "experienced") turners have no concept of how many things MUST come together, in order to have any real degree of success. New turners come, and they go.......most of them (as I see it) will initially have a great deal of enthusiasm, because they have learned that no matter how bad a tool finish they end up with, then power sanding will bring their turning to a reasonable conclusion. In my opinion, it's the lack of sanding that is the real key to success. The less sanding that is required, the less variation from a pure geometric shape is possible. Of course, it's not possible to entirely eliminate sanding, but striving for that goal is that which becomes a springboard to success. Yes, I do believe the OBS is one notable contraption available to us that is worthwhile to pursue, and it's performance can be improved upon.....with the notation that it will never be any more than one small part of a very big overall equation. If ALL those other elements of the "big picture" are not successfully addressed.....then no matter how much any one component of the equation is individually successful.....the overall result will not be as aesthetically appealing as it could have been.

Because quite a few turners require excessive sanding, it's the main reason why so many of them pursue "embellishment"......because embellishment is not dependent on a pure geometric shape.......😵 (Note: This is not to disparage the many beautiful turnings that are accomplished through embellishment.....but, there is embellishment as one aspect, and excellence in the mechanics of turning on the lathe......and these are two entirely different things!) 😉

ko