As it applies to woodturning, what is the definition of "embellishment"?

[Michael Anderson]

@Doug Freeman all good points. And, you’re probably right that if you’re not considering the upper echelon, there are endless examples of poorly turned forms that have been attempted to be saved with carving (or by adding beads and coves for that matter). And I also agree that piercing generally requires more technical thin-turning skills than carving.

One good example where carving necessitates solid turning skills is Dixie Biggs’ relief carved hollowforms. I watched a video recently where she described her process. She required a consistent 1/4” thickness, because her relief carving was 1/8” - 3/16” deep, and the extra 1/16” was her safety net. If her thickness was inconsistent she would cut through her wall. The point was that she was preserving the excellent form she achieved on the lathe. She also focused on retaining high spots so that her carved from still hd the original turned shape in profile. Interesting stuff!

Even though we might not agree on everything, I really like these kinds of discussions. I think they’re part of what makes the forum interesting, and it’s fun to get into the academic minutiae.

 

[Russ Braun]

Great post here, Russ!

Does this mean we can't define and categorize what is accomplished on the lathe, as opposed to what is accomplished off the lathe? .....and, the entirety of the visual impact of these two things as an whole piece of artwork?

To my thinking, there is no question that the lathe work, AND the embellishments, BOTH require a great deal of skill to accomplish extraordinarily well.......however, mediocre lathe skills can be camouflaged by great skill in creating the embellishments. This is not to diminish the achievement of creating a great piece of art, but the opposite is not true. ie: The visual impact of a great turning is ALWAYS decreased when the embellishment isn't as good as it could be......hmmmmm!

-o-

Great question Odie! One might be shocked at how much time Jerry spends at the lathe in order to make his whimsical pieces. Of course, in order to know this, you need to see his processes before making an informative call on where to catagorize something.

While it is true he has a good amount of time off the lathe, at some point it’s splitting hairs. You most likely prep blanks, seal them, bag them, filling voids, etc…time off the lathe. Most woodturning projects have time off the lathe. It is just part of one’s process….. I say, potato’s, potautoes, lol!!

While it’s true that I have never seen a whimsical musical instrument come out of your shop, I can only hope that one day I might!! Of course, that is up to you Brother and I can always hope!

Regarding defining and categorizing; time is of the essence to us turners getting a little long in the tooth; time better spent creating rather than categorizing things IMHO. I will leave such things to our members who find that stuff fulfilling!!

My segmenting has hidden my poor tool skills for years. I have recently become better with a bowl gouge because with 90- 120 days spent gluing something up, it deserves a decent chance to survive me introducing a cutting edge to it. I still need better tool skills, no question about it. Our world is full of newbie turners and self-taught knuckleheads like myself! Thankfully, the AAW is doing what it can to make us more skilled.

I’m not sure if you recall; I posted a message about when I hit the sweet spot while turning with my bowl gouge. This is the kind of thing you hit all the time….do you remember your first?? I sure do, lol!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Appreciate the devil’s advocate aspect. I understand your confusion regarding piecing vs carving - let me continue. I dont carve, so I could be off base. It APPEARS to me that much of the carving does not require a great starting point, and a talented carver can make some corrections. Typically The carved pieces use a relatively simple turning as the “canvas”, as the carving is the “show”, with much or the original form carved away. This can affectively “hide” a mundane form and turning skill set.

On the other hand, piercing effectively increases the need for good form and control of wall thickness, elevating the turning skill requirement vs a “standard” piece.

My logical engineering mind is just trying to make sense of it all. I dont disagree that at the highest level combining skill sets shows great accomplishment and talent. I’m targeting more a notch or 2 down. What if I already struggle to develop turning skills, and now I need to develop carving skills, which I already tried and suck at (or don’t like)? If mundane turned items with average carving or pyrography (pick your non turning art form) art get the attention over excellently turned forms, the message is be avg at different things vs great at one.

Perhaps an analogy can be found in Olympic sports. The decathlete must be good at 10 different skills, yet would not win a gold or probably even place in the individual events. Thing is, the decathlete can get a medal in that event, and other specialized athletes can get a medal in the individual events.

Doug,
There are some absolutely amazing “strictly turned” pieces quite often posted in our gallery! I find them as impressive as a Dixie Biggs turned and carved vessel. Hitting a great form on a great piece of wood is a Home Run in my book!! Unleashing the beauty in a piece of wood really requires a great form and tool skill otherwise it becomes a bit of a yawner for me!! Seeing great tool skills from expert turners on a great piece of wood is just as impressive as a Jerry Bennett piece in many ways. Just look at some of Kevin Jesequel’s, Gabriel Hoff’s or Michael Anderson’s recent pieces. It seems like you are getting a piece of their soul in each of their pieces….just like Jerry Bennett!!

Regarding you trying something new…it will likely be novice at the start. Keep after it and it will become old hat in no time……well maybe a bit longer (from my experience)!
Russ

 

[John Tisdale]

I want to see all of it. I do not want to miss anything. I can do my own filtering.

Jerry,
You said it all.
Thanks
John

 

[odie]

I’m not sure if you recall; I posted a message about when I hit the sweet spot while turning with my bowl gouge. This is the kind of thing you hit all the time….do you remember your first?? I sure do, lol!!

Russ.....Are you asking if I recall the first time I hit the "sweet spot" with a gouge?.....no, but I can recall many times that things went right, and I wasn't sure just what it was that I did that made a difference. You have to do this over and over again.....until you "get it"!

One thing about that, though......is the struggle will continue without all the essential physical things coming into harmony.....sharp tools, technique, presentation, a smooth transition over length of the cut. Then there is the spiritual element that ties it all together......and, that is something very difficult to explain with words, but it's a connection between your senses.....your body's controlled reaction to your senses, and those previously mentioned essential physical things.

It's kind of like a dance.....we can see great dancers doing what they do, and they can try to explain it to you......but, if you don't have "it", you'll never be able to do what they do. Personally, I think many more turners can do "the dance" than they think.....and, a few think they can, but can't, or don't!....and, nobody can fully understand what it takes to do the dance, until they have actually done it!

-o-

BTW: Your segmented bowls are truly outstanding.....something that takes a lot of effort, experience, and plain ol' "time in the saddle" to do what you do. I'm sure everyone here recognizes that in your work. Embellishment is an art in itself, and you've taken it to a very high level of accomplishment!

.

 

[Doug Freeman]

A few years ago a group tried to form as anti - Artsi fartsi - they had te requirement that at least 50% of the work had to be done on the lathe.

Then they realized this eliminated:
Segmented, pens, bottle stoppers, many NE bowls…. - common items where blank prep and off the lathe fishing usually takes more time than the turning.

Well, they screwed up the definition.

Total Time/ amount of work on or off lathe is irrelevant. Its a question of how turning skill impacted the final result. For example, a segmenter can spend “forever” cutting and gluing up a piece, but the final result depends on skill on the lathe.

While I don’t know @Jerry Bennett ’s process for his remarkable work, I can visualize a lot of creativity and skill being required on the lathe with fixturing and tool handling to create the work.

 

[hockenbery]

Well, they screwed up the definition

Not so much screwed up definition but more a testimony to the inability to create pigeon holes that accurately capture the diversity of what turners create.

 

[Larry Mercier]

Not so much screwed up definition but more a testimony to the inability to create pigeon holes that accurately capture the diversity of what turners create.

Very well said, Al. It encapsulates the thread.

 

[R Henrickson]

Not so much screwed up definition but more a testimony to the inability to create pigeon holes that accurately capture the diversity of what turners create.

Having spent 40 years working with archaeological pottery -- sorting and classifying pottery (millions of sherds and tens of thousands of vessels)-- creating a typology or classification is one of the most difficult tasks, especially when others try to use it. Simply agreeing on definitions of basic terms is difficult-- I had ongoing discussions with core project members as to what was a "bowl" vs "pot" vs "jar" (and many others). At one site I was responsible for 1500 years worth of pottery, created by at least 5 entirely distinct cultures (Hittite, Iron Age, Phrygian, Persian, Greek). Each presented different classification problems. Clearly defining what the terms you use mean is essential. All too often people use the same word to refer to differing things. The result is incoherence, then discussion (disputes).

 

[odie]

Having spent 40 years working with archaeological pottery -- sorting and classifying pottery (millions of sherds and tens of thousands of vessels)-- creating a typology or classification is one of the most difficult tasks, especially when others try to use it. Simply agreeing on definitions of basic terms is difficult-- I had ongoing discussions with core project members as to what was a "bowl" vs "pot" vs "jar" (and many others). At one site I was responsible for 1500 years worth of pottery, created by at least 5 entirely distinct cultures (Hittite, Iron Age, Phrygian, Persian, Greek). Each presented different classification problems. Clearly defining what the terms you use mean is essential. All too often people use the same word to refer to differing things. The result is incoherence, then discussion (disputes).

I think your post is especially applicable here, because the incoherence you mention is obvious....

I suppose the best way to go forward, is to use the meanings/definitions as you would apply them, and if there is confusion resulting from your word usage that impacts the current discussion, then deal with it on a case by case basis......or, simply come to a realization that it is what it is, and to clarify, while expecting universal acceptance, might be beyond any reasonable expectation.....

-o-

 

[Doug Freeman]

Not so much screwed up definition but more a testimony to the inability to create pigeon holes that accurately capture the diversity of what turners create.

If your definition is that as long as a lathe was used somewhere in the process, regardless of turning competence, then it is correct.

 

[odie]

If your definition is that as long as a lathe was used somewhere in the process, regardless of turning competence, then it is correct.

Yes, Doug......

I'd have to say your statement is very applicable here.....with the emphasis on "regardless of turning competence".

Since many turners today focus on shapes that are easily power sanded, the whole ballgame has shifted from excellence in turning skills, to excellence in embellishment skills. My statement here, in no way, is intended to diminish the skills necessary to produce those great embellishments.....but, to provide a separation between them and those absent "on lathe" skills. This significantly reduces the "visual impact" of what is produced on the lathe, when considering the scope of the artwork as a "whole entity".

-o-

 

[William Rogers]

I don’t understand some of the comments. The impression I’m getting is embellishment takes away from the turning skills. I just don’t see that. Just because a piece is embellished it should not degrade the turning skill. I just think embellishment is an expression to create something different.

 

[odie]

I don’t understand some of the comments. The impression I’m getting is embellishment takes away from the turning skills. I just don’t see that. Just because a piece is embellished it should not degrade the turning skill. I just think embellishment is an expression to create something different.

Hi William.....

I think you are misunderstanding the scope of what is being said here. Embellishment does not take away from any turning skills that are present. Embellishment can hide mediocre turning skills, simply because they can become the main characteristic of a turning. It is not the intent here, to minimize neither great turning, or embellishment skills.....but, to make a separation between the two, because they are two entirely different things.

-o-

 

[hockenbery]

Embellishment can hide mediocre turning skills, simply because they can become the main characteristic of a turning.

Depends on the embellishment some of which depend on a well turned surface or a nice curve.
Poor surfaces are obvious in some embellishments

I do know of two artists who make pieces where the only turning is hollowing. The entire surfaces are carved.
The hollowing prevents cracking.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Interesting. There is skill that one can see from the finished work and there is skill unseen during the making. I once heard Raffan can turn a salad bowl in an astonishing amount of time, 2-3 minutes. I am, in that world an astonishingly poor turner. Given a little time, I can end up with what I intended to do with a piece. When I started turning, there was an old guy that looked down on the use of sandpaper. What was cool, he could back it up with the most incredible skill I have ever seen. I have no interest in doing that or turn a bowl in three minutes. I happily use sandpaper to refine curves and it works every time. What is more important to me is having a good eye in determining if something is right or not and the WILL to not quit until it is right. To each, his own.
In my estimation, will trumps skill.
Does that make sense?

 

[hockenbery]

will trumps skill.

Absolutely. I see young artists with “will” get into shows all the time while they apologize for their lack of “skill”.

I think doing the interrupted cut to hollow a natural edge bowl or turn a surface on an off axis/center piece is one of the more difficult skills in turning. Ellsworth and Sfirri make it look easy.

Can you be a good turner without mastering the interrupted cut? Sure.

If you like the results it’s hard to criticize the methods or even care about them.

 

[Tim Mehling]

The AAW has a big tent philosophy. There is a reason. If you believe the same way Florida does that the only thing to come from the lathe are vessels plates and spindles, you and they have a surprise coming. These pieces consist of
segmented layers each turned to specific dimensions, assembled, sanded and finished. No carving, no burning. No different than any other "certified" turning.
If you do come up with categories, I want my own.

The AAW got it right. A well executed vessel can easily stand up to anything. I like to think of the undiscovered possibilities the lathe has to offer.
How about the unreal work of Derick Wiedman? All turned and blows my mind!

View attachment 54323


Here is another. The keys are segmented and turned also. I did do a little reshaping of the the horn bell by sanding and added a scroll at the bottom.
View attachment 54324


Same here. I flattened out the neck and added a fretboard and a scroll at the bottom. All turned, assembled, sanded and finished.
View attachment 54325

Jerry: We’ll said.

 

[William Rogers]

Hi William.....

I think you are misunderstanding the scope of what is being said here. Embellishment does not take away from any turning skills that are present. Embellishment can hide mediocre turning skills, simply because they can become the main characteristic of a turning. It is not the intent here, to minimize neither great turning, or embellishment skills.....but, to make a separation between the two, because they are two entirely different things.

-o-

Hi Odie. I don’t think I am misunderstanding. I don’t believe a purpose of embellishment is to hide mediocre turnings at all. Mediocre turnings in my opinion is someone who is learning the skill and best he can accomplish at that time. I’ve been there, it is a learning process. I have made my share of mediocre pieces, but never used embellishment to hide anything. To me that is dragging down those that embellish thinking it they may have done embellishment because they lack turning skills. Secondly (to me) it isn’t necessary to separate things unless there is a competition involve. Then you should have different classes. It is obvious when something is embellished by carving,pyro,etc. and turnings that are only done with traditional turning tools. I don’t see any competition here, all varieties of turnings embellished or not are welcome. There are tags to add in the photo gallery, but don’t know if any just say tradition with no embellishment.

 

[odie]

Hi Odie. I don’t think I am misunderstanding. I don’t believe a purpose of embellishment is to hide mediocre turnings at all. Mediocre turnings in my opinion is someone who is learning the skill and best he can accomplish at that time. I’ve been there, it is a learning process. I have made my share of mediocre pieces, but never used embellishment to hide anything. To me that is dragging down those that embellish thinking it they may have done embellishment because they lack turning skills. Secondly (to me) it isn’t necessary to separate things unless there is a competition involve. Then you should have different classes. It is obvious when something is embellished by carving,pyro,etc. and turnings that are only done with traditional turning tools. I don’t see any competition here, all varieties of turnings embellished or not are welcome. There are tags to add in the photo gallery, but don’t know if any just say tradition with no embellishment.

William.....perhaps the word "hide" suggests a purpose that was not intended in my statement.....to a point. I might say that a very simplistic turning might be insignificant without the embellishments. When I say "simplistic", that is to suggest it's a very average turning, one that doesn't exhibit advanced skills, or anything else of significance that would make it a stand out without the embellishments.

However, the point stands when a turning isn't finished as well as it could be, therefore imperfections, such as tearout and finish quality are hidden with embellishments. This would be less often the case, and not the perview of more experienced turners, such as yourself.

-o-

 

[William Rogers]

William.....perhaps the word "hide" suggests a purpose that was not intended in my statement.....to a point. I might say that a very simplistic turning might be insignificant without the embellishments. When I say "simplistic", that is to suggest it's a very average turning, one that doesn't exhibit advanced skills, or anything else of significance that would make it a stand out without the embellishments.

However, the point stands when a turning isn't finished as well as it could be, therefore imperfections, such as tearout and finish quality are hidden with embellishments. This would be less often the case, and not the perview of more experienced turners, such as yourself.

-o-

Hi Odie Well we disagree that the point stands when a turning isn’t finished as well as it could be.........
Sure it is possible to use embellishment to hide an imperfect, but really not likely IMO. If I am going embellish I have a plan before I ever start turning the wood. If I am doing beading or piercing there can be no imperfections. With pyrography if I left a little tear out, the surface still meet my requirements for pyrography. I had planned to do the pyrography. Same with carving. I just don’t think embellishment is add after because of imperfections or poor turning beginners or experienced. I think it is very unlikely embellishment is added after the fact because of poor turning. And in those unlikely instances “So What”? The end result is all that matters. I don’t think this “hiding imperfections” with embellishment is something that happens with regularity.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

This may sound awful but my efforts both mentally and physically are directed towards the piece, whatever that may be. I do not defer to any tool as a priority. I do not let the wood tell me what to do. I do not entertain any inhibitions it the design, including my skill. Later I put on a different cap and figure out how to do it. As a result, I have an active burn pile. Thus not everything I do ends up at a woodturning event or forum. I seek to place work on the table that stands totally on its own with a voice, unencumbered by it’s maker or by any tool or process.

 

[Larry Mercier]

,I seek to place work on the table that stands totally on its own with a voice, unencumbered by it’s maker or by any tool or process.

Jerry, I came to this turning journey two years after I retired. I never had a shop course. While I depend on symposia and club demos for skill improvement, your work is absolutely jaw droppingly beautiful. I think it is my ability to know that I am on the uphill side of being a good turner that enables me to better see and greatly admire what you are able to do with wood. Your work is very inspiring.

 

[Russ Braun]

This may sound awful but my efforts both mentally and physically are directed towards the piece, whatever that may be. I do not defer to any tool as a priority. I do not let the wood tell me what to do. I do not entertain any inhibitions it the design, including my skill. Later I put on a different cap and figure out how to do it. As a result, I have an active burn pile. Thus not everything I do ends up at a woodturning event or forum. I seek to place work on the table that stands totally on its own with a voice, unencumbered by it’s maker or by any tool or process.

The actual recipe on how to work outside the box; how about this Jerry Bennett share!! Fantastic!!!

 

[Russ Braun]

Interesting. There is skill that one can see from the finished work and there is skill unseen during the making. I once heard Raffan can turn a salad bowl in an astonishing amount of time, 2-3 minutes. I am, in that world an astonishingly poor turner. Given a little time, I can end up with what I intended to do with a piece. When I started turning, there was an old guy that looked down on the use of sandpaper. What was cool, he could back it up with the most incredible skill I have ever seen. I have no interest in doing that or turn a bowl in three minutes. I happily use sandpaper to refine curves and it works every time. What is more important to me is having a good eye in determining if something is right or not and the WILL to not quit until it is right. To each, his own.
In my estimation, will trumps skill.
Does that make sense?

“Will not quit until it’s right” is a great statement to ponder. I need to practice this more often as this mentality hones your game, your eye and ultimately your work!!

Jerry helped me with my deconsrtruct piece with this simple tip; I probably should have continued further with the piece but a deadline was looming.

If you’re not happy with a piece, you’re not done. If you can’t fix something, deconstruct, reconstruct, lol!!

 

[odie]

Hi Odie Well we disagree that the point stands when a turning isn’t finished as well as it could be.........

OK.....we disagree, and I'll leave it at that, William.....have a good day!

-o-

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

This may sound awful but my efforts both mentally and physically are directed towards the piece, whatever that may be. I do not defer to any tool as a priority. I do not let the wood tell me what to do. I do not entertain any inhibitions it the design, including my skill. Later I put on a different cap and figure out how to do it. As a result, I have an active burn pile. Thus not everything I do ends up at a woodturning event or forum. I seek to place work on the table that stands totally on its own with a voice, unencumbered by it’s maker or by any tool or process.

Jerry, I couldn't agree more with you.

This forum, IMHO, seems to be too obsessed with developing skills. I couldn't care less about limiting my work to my skill level. Some of my heroes of woodturning (and wood sculpture) are Giles Gilson, Wendell Castle and Mark Lindquist. They all strongly advocated using whatever tools and whatever level of technology needed to achieve their art. Note that in Giles' shop tour he didn't even mention his wood lathe, he did mention his metal lathe and milling machine though.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Jerry, I couldn't agree more with you.

This forum, IMHO, seems to be too obsessed with developing skills. I couldn't care less about limiting my work to my skill level. Some of my heroes of woodturning (and wood sculpture) are Giles Gilson, Wendell Castle and Mark Lindquist. They all strongly advocated using whatever tools and whatever level of technology needed to achieve their art. Note that in Giles' shop tour he didn't even mention his wood lathe, he did mention his metal lathe and milling machine though.

Doug, Giles Gilson was one of mine also. He is one reason I am picky about embellishment discussions. Many years back, Giles was soundly criticized for painting vessels with automotive paint within the AAW. He was inspired to leave and never came back. A huge loss to woodturning. A huge gain for the art world. His work was meticulous and astounding. Years later, Betty Scarpino reached out to him and put a great article in the journal about him and his work. He was invited to come to a symposium but health issues prevented it. Soon after he passed. Betty could fill in accurate details but his work was remarkable. I would hate to lose another “Giles” because of the baloney that ran him off.

 

[Larry Mercier]

Even though we might not agree on everything, I really like these kinds of discussions. I think they’re part of what makes the forum interesting, and it’s fun to get into the academic minutiae.

Michael, I not only enjoy seeing your turnings but also your shared insights.

Odie, because you have a wide concept of turning, you have started some insightful threads. Imo, you are a very good teacher- you challenge us to think about turning issues. As the threads evolve, our interest grows and we have fun as we learn. I am very grateful for your shared insights.

 

[Perry Hilbert]

not to hi jack, but along those same lines, some of the things I make, (not nearly so fancy and artsy) contain elements of lathe work along with other tools, band saw, blow torch, router etc.. Of the whole, perhaps 4 of 9 assembled parts were done on a lathe. For instance, a German Pyramid may have 50% of the total pieces made on a lathe and 50% made on other shop machines. Here is the first attempt at a diorama type decoration I made. old barn wood, 4 pieces on the lathe and three on other machines It isn't mixed media, but it is mixed disciplines. A Turned snow man with cloth scarf and twig arms..... Embellishment?

 

[odie]

Michael, I not only enjoy seeing your turnings but also your shared insights.

Odie, because you have a wide concept of turning, you have started some insightful threads. Imo, you are a very good teacher- you challenge us to think about turning issues. As the threads evolve, our interest grows and we have fun as we learn. I am very grateful for your shared insights.

Thank you, Larry......

This whole discussion seems to have erupted spontaneously. All I did is attempt to point out that embellishment needs a definition, as it's applied to woodturning. Embellishment skills and woodturning skills are two entirely different things, and I see these two things as basis for great artistic inspiration, even though the skills that produce them are done on or off the lathe.

@Jerry Bennett .....I hope you don't think I would shun anyone's artistic merits on the basis of whether it consists of lathe produced results, or off lathe results. Here, I've consistently attempted to stress that both these things are praise-worthy, if skillfully and artistically done. I am a great appreciator of well done embellishment.....It's just that we need accurate definitions to faithfully describe just what it is we are discussing.

-o-

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Odie, I have appreciated your input through posts for many years. I respect you and your judgement. You have always had the woodturners best interest in mind. On that basis, I did not hesitate to spar a little with you. The woodturning community is diverse. There is room for all of us. To quote Will Rogers, “I never met a turner and his work I didn’t like”. You have spoken the truth throughout.
jer

 

[Mike Novak]

As a newbie, this has been an interesting discussion for me to follow.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

a decorative detail or feature added to something to make it more attractive.
"architectural embellishments"
Above is a Google definition for embellishment so what more does anyone need that seems to say it all.

 

[hughie]

Embellishments, I have really never given it much thought, as I suspect its much like which angle is best for your gouge. Well for me, I turn everything on the lathe, then add whatever to the surface. It can and does at times remove 50-70% of the piece, it may also penetrate through the vessel.
So for me after turning whatever you do to the piece is an alteration or embellishment, whether it be removing or adding to the piece

 

[Larry Mercier]

E

When you wonder “how’d he do that”, your own juices are actually starting to flow; let that happen, find out the techniques, this will lead to your own evolution!! For me, climbing out of my box is refreshing and exciting; thank you Jerry Bennett!

Percentage of time on the lathe or adding embellishing techniques are secondary to unleashing your creativity….splitting hairs! Thank you AAW for the broad, ever expanding definition of woodturning!!

I agree. You nailed it.

 

[Richard Coers]

@hockenbery
It might be a good thing for AAW to establish the categories of woodturning as FL state did.....and, to focus on these different aspects.

-o-

Why? What is to be gained? More oversight is really needed? If it is, I bet the AAW would welcome you as a team leader to implement the effort

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

To me embellishment is anything that changes it from being plain. That could be burning, beads, chatter tool and basket illusion. Some are done on the lathe and some off the lathe.

 

[odie]

Why? What is to be gained? More oversight is really needed? If it is, I bet the AAW would welcome you as a team leader to implement the effort

Why you ask, Richard?

I don't know those who decided to make woodturning categories for Florida, but I'd suspect that if we could hear from them, they'd say that woodturning, in itself, is too broad a medium to not establish some categories for the many different kind of disciplines that are used to create turned objects. There are those objects that are turned in a traditional manner and that is where the emphasis of the overall appeal is.....and as well.....there are other items where the main focus is not turning related. This is a subject that has been discussed before, and there are probably as many people who feel as you do on this, as those who don't.

This is similar to the fine arts, where oil paintings are not judged against watercolors......and neither are judged against sculpture or charcoal drawings. After all, they are all contained within the realm of what is correctly defined as "fine art", but they are rightfully in their own separate categories.

I doubt the AAW will seek out my advice on this, because I suspect those who influence the directions the AAW will take, probably think more like you do.

-o-

 

[Doug Freeman]

This is similar to the fine arts, where oil paintings are not judged against watercolors......and neither are judged against sculpture or charcoal drawings. After all, they are all contained within the realm of what is correctly defined as "fine art", but they are rightfully in their own separate categories.

Apparently wood turning is not considered “fine art” and doesn’t need to be concerned with “categories”…