Alan Lacer's article

[MichaelMouse]

🙂Not all roughing gouges are created equal:

Or, more to the point, not all people have the sense to use a tool. Extra metal is nice, but hardly needed to remove a shaving from a piece of wood. It is, however, a better solution to a non-problem than the nanny approach of banning something because someone might misuse it.


Reinforcement required? Not if you use good sense, which has been suspended here for purposes of demonstration.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/?action=view&current=DontDoThis.flv

 

[KEW]

I took that picture.
Gordon

Sorry, I should have credited you. The link is to your photobucket album. I was happy to find it quickly and posted it in a hurry without proper consideration.

You have my apologies, sir.

 

[Gordon Seto]

Kurt,

No apology needed. They were a picture of turning tools. I just want to add the description to what those two tools are.

 

[KEW]

Or, more to the point, not all people have the sense to use a tool.

That is why it is important to keep them away from potentially more hazardous situations!
I didn't have the sense to make a cut like yours when I started turning. Happily, I didn't try. I now understand the forces in play well enough that I believe I could be successful with it. However, on boards like this the audience is not known and I must agree with the people who say a SRG should not be used on a bowl (unless there are more cautions associated with it then can be properly related through a forum venue).
A new turner thrilled (and cocky) with their first successes, could view your video and think "Well, any idiot knows better than to hold a tool by the shank", then proceed to pull out his SRG to turn a bowl without realizing that some of the critical points of your video are the angle of approach relative to the wood grain and the tool overhang.
I believe you've been turning long enough that much of your obvious is not to a new turner.
As an analogy of sorts, I have made a conscious decision not to try to cut a rabbit with a skew or back hollow with a spindle gouge. I just feel that as long as I am only getting ~6 hours a week in the shop (on a good week), these are not practical cuts for me to add to my technique. If and when I have more time, or if I develop a better understanding of them, that may change.

 

[john lucas]

I agree with Kurt. We need to err on the side of caution with beginners. My friend Terry Scott turns the outside of winged vessels with a skew. I've done it and it works quite well but i would not show that to beginners. I have also used a spindle roughing gouge upside down to turn the inside of a bowl just to show that it can be done if you understand how a tool cuts. I would not ask a beginner to do this. There are quite simply safer ways to turn a bowl than to use a spindle roughing gouge or skew.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Amazing. So the idea is not to teach safe use, but tell them it's something they are incapable of using safely? How patronizing that sounds.

When do we take the governor off the lathe and allow them to turn over 500 RPM? After all, danger in a catch increases exponentially with speed.

You want to ban something because of the shape of the steel, ban parting tools. After all, they're thin in one direction, and are often used at great extension over the rest.

Is this organization dedicated to teaching or preaching?

 

[Keith Burns]

Oh, swell, here we go again. Why is it so dang important to you Mr. Mouse to try to convert people to follow your way of turning when there are tools made for this purpose and quite frankly who gives a flip that you can rough your bowls with a spindle roughing gouge. You have been pushing this for years and argued your points and I think people are just downright tired of it.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Amazing. So the idea is not to teach safe use, but tell them it's something they are incapable of using safely? How patronizing that sounds.

I see it as we teach from the ground up. You don't start driving in an F1 car, you start in dad's Volvo (or whatever) as people progress, you teach new things that they are capable of understanding the physics and tool control required to accomplish it. You don't start math at trig, how many examples do you need.

If it looks like it is to dangerous to you, would you try it anyway, or teach it to someone who has never picked up a tool?

 

[Gordon Seto]

I don't think the problem is with the tool; it is how the tool is used, its limitations and most importantly how the new turners learn the skill. The days of apprenticeship was over. A great percentage of new turners are self-taught. Some didn't even have a 2 hour class from the stores where they bought their lathes. They acquire their knowledge from experimentation on their own and internet, books, dvd.
A new turner may not notice that you may have tilted the band saw table to pre-cut the blank into cone shape in order to have the tool rest so close. Some one may mis-read the term "roughing gouge" and starts with a chain sawed rough blank or doing a natural edge bowl, the risk of something bad happened would be greatly increased.
If my kids didn't show me how they can maneuver the car in an empty parking lot, I won't let them drive off the parking lot. There is no license, no exam to make sure new turners learn what they should know before leaping into riskier techniques. We should exercise our restrain to err on the sake of precaution.
I have no problem if "roughing gouge for bowls" is taught in a class setting, as long as the how and why are taught.