Advice on full lathe brand

[Neil S]

It has puzzled me for a long time why lathes that were originally designed for spindle work still dominate the lathe market when the majority of turning done nowadays is bowl, platter and hollow form work, the majority of which doesn't require tailstock support.

It is understandable that most hobbyist can only afford and accommodate one lathe and that they will want that one lathe to do most things for them. However, this means that they get a lathe that is optimised for between centres work and a compromise for most of what they actually do on their lathe.

For a brief time dedicated 'bowl' lathes became available like the Union Graduate, which Richard Raffan used before moving to Australia.

https://turnedwoodenbowls.co.uk/2017/03/07/graduate-lathe/

L.R.E Machinery & Equipment Co. Home

But those never became a trend, so we are left with hybrids that mostly don't do the outboard turning platform component very well, IMO. In most cases they seem to me to be afterthoughts that weren't designed by outboard turners who are very familiar with the requirements for outboard turning.

This thread isn't the place to kick that can about any further as the OP is looking for lathes that are currently available, but I might at some stage run a separate thread on outboard turning rigs. Who knows, we might design the perfect lathe between us!

 

[JeffSmith]

Your story is a nice one.
But you might add outboard as another stand in front of option.
A 17” outboard on a ONEWAY gives all the same posture benifits without the need to unlock, move, and lock the headstock.
Having an outboard banjo is a benefit too.

Yep - I’d meant to include the outboard option, just thought I was getting a little long before I got there. The outboard option is available on several lathes that fall into the OP’s budget plans - if I’m not mistaken, the Laguna's, Harvey’s and perhaps a couple others offer an outboard configuration option like the Oneway.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Your story is a nice one.
But you might add outboard as another stand in front of option.
A 17” outboard on a ONEWAY gives all the same posture benifits without the need to unlock, move, and lock the headstock.
Having an outboard banjo is a benefit too.

However an outboard spindle requires the work to be removed from the mounting and moved to the OB spindle. More invloved than rotating the headstock.

 

[hockenbery]

However an outboard spindle requires the work to be removed from the mounting and moved to the OB spindle. More invloved than rotating the headstock.

True if I have the piece in a chuck or on a faceplate on the inboard side.

However, if i turn the outside of the piece between centers and then hollow on the outboard it’s maybe the outboard is little faster than fiddling with the headstock, especially I leave the the chuck mounted outborad to do several pieces.

 

[Odie]

However an outboard spindle requires the work to be removed from the mounting and moved to the OB spindle. More involved than rotating the headstock.

Correct.....and, in my case, I have many specialized tools and jigs that are stored on, or near the lathe. A sliding headstock would place everything inconveniently out of reach and/or require me to move all onboard items to some other location. Also, I have become accustomed to leaning on my lathe for additional support for many cuts. Turning outboard would eliminate that supported tool-work completely. For me, the rotating headstock is the perfect solution. I assume it would be the same concern for some other turners as well.

-o-

 

[William Rogers]

The OP asked about lathes under $5K. I only have experience with the Laguna 18-36. I had that lathe for about 2 years. During that time I replaces every switch and relay on it. Laguna then sent me a new headstock and I had to replace the electronic board on it. I always had great CS from Laguna where some have not. Lathe has a lot of capabilities, however I did not like the steel ways and floor to spindle height was not adjustable. Riser are available, but still a fixed height. When I finally got the lathe “right” I sold it. So there is some risk with the Laguna 18-36. The Laguna 18-36 has a cone headstock as do other lathes. I never experienced any increased vibration because of the cone design. For that to be true it would mean the cone would have movement and that doesn’t happen.

Looking for a new lathe the Powermatic 3520C is close to the $5K range. I have turned on the Powermatic 4224 and it is a nice lathe, but well over the $5K price range.

However my final decision was the Robust AB that is well over the $5K price. Yes more than I wanted to spend, but have no regrets at all. I was concerned about the stainless steel ways based on my experience with the Laguna, but now I never want to go back to cast iron. The tailstock swing was just one of the features that drove me to the Robust. I also wanted a sliding headstock.

Getting back to the $5K range the Harvey T60 looks impressive on paper. I have no experience with that lathe and you would need to do your own research. I don’t think it was available when I was looking.

Keep in mind the spindle to floor height. I didn’t do that when I bought my Laguna and it was a back breaker. I never was a fan of the rotating headstock, I don’t like how the banjo is extended out, but that is a personnel preference. I can slide my headstock to the end of my lathe in about 20 seconds or less.

@odie is always commenting about the “herd”, In regard to American lathe manufactures not having a rotating headstock it may be because the “herd” really doesn’t want that and there is not a market that would make sense for them to produce that lathe. Me, I don’t think there is a “head” where we all vote on things, just a a lot of individuals that have the same preferences. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

The OP asked about lathes under $5K. I only have experience with the Laguna 18-36. I had that lathe for about 2 years. During that time I replaces every switch and relay on it. Laguna then sent me a new headstock and I had to replace the electronic board on it. I always had great CS from Laguna where some have not. Lathe has a lot of capabilities, however I did not like the steel ways and floor to spindle height was not adjustable. Riser are available, but still a fixed height. When I finally got the lathe “right” I sold it. So there is some risk with the Laguna 18-36. The Laguna 18-36 has a cone headstock as do other lathes. I never experienced any increased vibration because of the cone design. For that to be true it would mean the cone would have movement and that doesn’t happen.

Looking for a new lathe the Powermatic 3520C is close to the $5K range. I have turned on the Powermatic 4224 and it is a nice lathe, but well over the $5K price range.

However my final decision was the Robust AB that is well over the $5K price. Yes more than I wanted to spend, but have no regrets at all. I was concerned about the stainless steel ways based on my experience with the Laguna, but now I never want to go back to cast iron. The tailstock swing was just one of the features that drove me to the Robust. I also wanted a sliding headstock.

Getting back to the $5K range the Harvey T60 looks impressive on paper. I have no experience with that lathe and you would need to do your own research. I don’t think it was available when I was looking.

Keep in mind the spindle to floor height. I didn’t do that when I bought my Laguna and it was a back breaker. I never was a fan of the rotating headstock, I don’t like how the banjo is extended out, but that is a personnel preference. I can slide my headstock to the end of my lathe in about 20 seconds or less.

@odie is always commenting about the “herd”, In regard to American lathe manufactures not having a rotating headstock it may be because the “herd” really doesn’t want that and there is not a market that would make sense for them to produce that lathe. Me, I don’t think there is a “head” where we all vote on things, just a a lot of individuals that have the same preferences. Nothing wrong with that.

Just curious what the difference is between the banjo being extended out for the pivoting headstock or turning the outside of a large bowl? Do you not do larger projects because of the banjo having to be extended out?

 

[Odie]

@odie is always commenting about the “herd”, In regard to American lathe manufactures not having a rotating headstock it may be because the “herd” really doesn’t want that and there is not a market that would make sense for them to produce that lathe. Me, I don’t think there is a “head” where we all vote on things, just a a lot of individuals that have the same preferences. Nothing wrong with that.

Bill.....It has nothing to do with voting on what methods to use.....it's all about thinking outside the box.....hence: the exact opposite of "herd-think".

-o-

 

[William Rogers]

Just curious what the difference is between the banjo being extended out for the pivoting headstock or turning the outside of a large bowl? Do you not do larger projects because of the banjo having to be extended out?

When I turn my tool rest is over the ways with the clamp below. So no I don’t have the tool rest extended beyond the ways. Maybe not a good description on my part, but this is what I mean. I have a 14” tool rest, so I am not extended out what would be required for a pivoting headstock.

 

[William Rogers]

@odie To me outside the box is the turning you produce. Preference on tooling is not a herd thing IMO.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

When I turn my tool rest is over the ways with the clamp below. So no I don’t have the tool rest extended beyond the ways. Maybe not a good description on my part, but this is what I mean. I have a 14” tool rest, so I am not extended out what would be required for a pivoting headstock.

Yea still not real clear. This is my point. The picture is how far the banjo goes out when pivoting the headstock. I have had to take it out a lot farther with the headstock straight and a large bowl chucked up. I don’t understand about having to move the banjo beyond the ways.

 

[William Rogers]

@Rusty Nesmith I don’t have a bowl on my lathe right now, I’m doing some hollowing. Looking at your picture the end opposite the tool rest is at the edge of the way and tool post appears in the center of the bowl. If you rotate to 0 position I would think you would move the banjo inward and the tool post would be closer to the ways to be in the center of the bowl. Even doing the outside of the bowl I am still not out as far as it would be if I had a rotating headstock. Also you can’t do anything to the outside of the bowl except sand. Not often, but occasionally I take a shear cut on the outside before sanding. Again my preference, not saying it is some problem.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Also you can’t do anything to the outside of the bowl except sand.

Correct. The bottom of the bowl is turned in the in-line configuration. Pivoting the head is only for the bowl's interior. But speaking of sanding, I just leave the headstock loose when sanding (it doesn't move freely, it has some resistance). That way I can pivot it to positions that are most comfortable for the current task.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

“Also you can’t do anything to the outside of the bowl except sand.”

I would agree to an extent. There have been a few times where after I finished turning the inside I have taken another light finish cut on the outside.

 

[William Rogers]

I do a variety of turnings, not just bowls. For a bowl turner a rotating headstock would make more sense. I have a Robust AB with the tilt away tailstock. When I do turn a bowl it is no problem for me to tilt the tailstock away and slide the headstock. With my lathe a rotating headstock provides no advantage. Those that have the rotating headstock feel it is a great feature for them to have. However I am just as happy with my setup and a rotating headstock is not a must have feature for me.

 

[Odie]

I do a variety of turnings, not just bowls. For a bowl turner a rotating headstock would make more sense. I have a Robust AB with the tilt away tailstock. When I do turn a bowl it is no problem for me to tilt the tailstock away and slide the headstock. With my lathe a rotating headstock provides no advantage. Those that have the rotating headstock feel it is a great feature for them to have. However I am just as happy with my setup and a rotating headstock is not a must have feature for me.

You are correct Bill...... Somewhere I saw that the majority of turners engage in mostly turning bowls.....so, the rotating headstock is a feature of interest for them.....I am among that group. It's interesting that most of the American market is concentrating on a sliding headstock, while the international marketplace seems to be converting to having the rotating headstock feature. A lathe that has a combination of both capabilities would be of interest to me, but speaking only for myself, I'd probably never use the sliding headstock.

-o-

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

You are correct Bill...... Somewhere I saw that the majority of turners engage in mostly turning bowls.....so, the rotating headstock is a feature of interest for them.....I am among that group. It's interesting that most of the American market is concentrating on a sliding headstock, while the international marketplace seems to be converting to having the rotating headstock feature. A lathe that has a combination of both capabilities would be of interest to me, but speaking only for myself, I'd probably never use the sliding headstock.

-o-

Yes. Mine does both and I always rotate it. I have never slid it to the other end.

 

[Thom Schuck]

I’m currently working with midi nova lathe which has served me well but I find the 3/4 HP to be frustrating at times.

Any advice on a full lathe model under $5,000 you’d recommend?

I fully agree with Leo. If I had a budget of 5K I would buy that exact machine. It will last you a lifetime. If you had Superman level dough I would buy the Robust. But Boy Howdy, they are expensive. 5K is a great budget for a lathe. That will get you into a lathe for a lifetime. I dont have that kind of money. I bought a Laguna. For what I do I could not ask for more. Well I could but that would be the Robust Sweet 16. That Bad Boy is a wicked nice machine. With 5K you are going to get a GREAT machine. Good Luck!

 

[William Rogers]

You are correct Bill...... Somewhere I saw that the majority of turners engage in mostly turning bowls.....so, the rotating headstock is a feature of interest for them.....I am among that group. It's interesting that most of the American market is concentrating on a sliding headstock, while the international marketplace seems to be converting to having the rotating headstock feature. A lathe that has a combination of both capabilities would be of interest to me, but speaking only for myself, I'd probably never use the sliding headstock.

-o-

You are correct Odie about the international market going toward the rotating headstock. When you think about it there are only two North America lathe manufactures that I know of, Robust and OneWay. All the other lathes that have a US present are manufactured overseas. I doubt there is much design work done by these companies. Where overseas in countries like England and Germany they design and manufacture their lathes. Australia is also included. They have much more competition to come out with new innovations than the US based companies. I doubt the US companies have much of a design team excluding Robust and OneWay.

 

[Aaron Harris]

For anyone looking at a big-boy lathe from Santa this Christmas, Woodcraft is having a serious Black Friday sale. As much as I love my Mustard Monster, if I had it to do again, I might jump on the big Rikon at a thousand dollars off!:
Rikon 70-3040

It really seems to have everything (except for the pivoting headstocks that are becoming popular!). And their PM 3520's are 10% off too. Anyway, I'm not shilling for Woodcraft, but when I ordered mine from them a couple of years ago, the customer service, delivery scheduling, and lift-gate to the bottom of my driveway went flawlessly. I would really love to give that big Rikon a spin if I ever get the chance!

 

[Stan Pressner]

Having recently upgraded my Laguna 18/38 to a Harvey T60, I would recommend the Harvey to anyone. Rock solid 850lb, plenty of power, great features, and contrary to their literature, I can slow it way down for finishing and sanding warped once turned bowls. I can get it to 33RPM a the high range and even lower on the low range. Best spindle lock I have seen on any lathe. At $4k, I think it is a tremendous value.

 

[Michael Brown]

I should have added......get your money ready......put it in a safe spot. When it comes to purchasing a used lathe......a good deal comes along and you may not have time to go find the money somewhere.
So.....be ready to jump.

This 100% I was in this position a few years ago and I found my jet 1640evs (with a pivoting headstock) for a screaming deal, and someone was going to drive from NM the next day if it was still for sale the next morning. So 8:30pm I drug my son a mere 15 miles away and I've been amazed by this beast ever since.

 

[John K Jordan]

It has puzzled me for a long time why lathes that were originally designed for spindle work still dominate the lathe market when the majority of turning done nowadays is bowl, platter and hollow form work, the majority of which doesn't require tailstock support.

To me this is proof that alternate universes exist! From my observations at numerous clubs and symposiums, I think a large majority (perhaps over 95%?) turn much more than just bowls. Even those who turn a lot of bowls still use the tailstock to orient and form ways to mount oddly shaped chunks such as burls and to support other deep things as needed. Personally, I would not want only a dedicated bowl lathe in my shop - too limiting.

I personally have no problem turning bowls, platters, and other round things as large as will fit on my PM3520b.


These things are all easily turned from the side of the lathe with no stretching.

HOWEVER, I do on occasion turn the inside of a bowl on the "far side" with the lathe in reverse, so I don’t have to lean over the lathe to see the cut. I have some special tools made for this, for example, for turning a wide-mouthed form or undercutting the rim of a bowl. But fact is I don't find bowl turning in general challenging (no offense intended to bowl turners) - I usually turn bowls when someone asks.

For turners with a deep-seated big bowl drive, maybe do what the Olands did and have a custom lathe built. Lisi showed me stunningly beautiful bowls in her gallery big enough to sit in and take a bath. (She also used a lathe with a tailstock in her shop.) Seems like even a dedicated bowl turner might make good use of both.)




BTW, I do have this hardware for my PM with an 18" extension that will, I think, allow something like a 35"+ diameter turning. But I have zero interest in that and have never even mounted the bed extention in this configuration.



But hey, fortunately, there is room in the world (and in woodturning) for a variety of opinions! Ack, what if the king decreed we all had to make the same things!!!

JKJ

 

[Neil S]

To me this is proof that alternate universes exist! From my observations at numerous clubs and symposiums, I think a large majority (perhaps over 95%?) turn much more than just bowls. Even those who turn a lot of bowls still use the tailstock to orient and form ways to mount oddly shaped chunks such as burls and to support other deep things as needed. Personally, I would not want only a dedicated bowl lathe in my shop - too limiting.

But hey, fortunately, there is room in the world (and in woodturning) for a variety of opinions! Ack, what if the king decreed we all had to make the same things!!!

JKJ

Indeed, JKJ, vive la différence!
.