Once you pointed out the cracks at 1:10 it's hard to unsee them and as a newby explains to me why the bowl came apart the way it did.
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Advice on full lathe brand
- Thread starter Rachel Aberle
- Start date
Odie
I've been turning on Woodfast lathes now for over 50yrs... but, not the same one! My latest Woodfast has a rotating headstock and I would never have another lathe without that feature. My old back thanks me every day for that.
As well as the rotating headstock, my latest has cast iron legs. All of my previous Woodfasts had a metal cabinet. I found them to be top heavy, so had to load the cabinet up with railway line offcuts to bring down the centre of gravity. Those metal cabinets also complained loudly when anything was out of balance on the lathe without some extra ballast in them. My current lathe with the cast iron legs probably weighs less than my previous Woodfasts, but the weight in the legs is at a lower centre of gravity and I find that works OK for me. I'm also more patient nowadays and just dial down the revs to begin with if the blank wants to buck the lathe about. One of my previous Woodfasts went down to 10rpm, which was very nice to have and this one goes down to 50rmp, which isn't quite as good, but adequate for most of what I do...
I don't think that Woodfast makes that model anymore, so that wouldn't be an option for you now, but hope you find something similar or better that works for you when it comes time to replace your current lathe.
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I absolutely love my Nova Nebula. 18"swing, great technology.
10 years with my Nova DVR-XP and still love it.
Rachel- what is your timeframe to purchase? It seems you are in WI. I am quite certain the AAW symposium will be in St. Paul, MN in 2025. Every lathe for sale in the USA will either be displayed at the vendor trade show, or in use at the demonstration rooms. You'll be able to spend quality time shopping all of them under one roof. All of those lathes are typically available to take home with you, too, and sometimes with incentives so the vendors don't have to haul them back. But you would have to be prepared to load it into your vehicle and haul it home. In 2001, this is how my former Vicmarc VL300 came to me. (I still own a VL200 shortbed.)
Speaking of Vicmarc- they have some of the beefiest cast iron lathes from any brand. I know this objectively because at that 2001 show I brought a caliper, tape measure and notebook with me and measured them all- headstocks, tailstocks, banjos and beds. Nobody had a bed as massively cast as the Vicmarc, and that's probably still true today. But, that's just one feature to look at. All the "heavies" out there are massive in their own rights.
Budget-wise, I'm not a fan of the "buy something now and upgrade later" thought process. I'd encourage saving now and for a bit longer until you can buy that "just right" machine. Skip the short-term compromise machine. You will save money doing it this way.
Steve,
Owner of a Vicmarc VL 200 shortbed and a Oneway 1224.
Speaking of Vicmarc- they have some of the beefiest cast iron lathes from any brand. I know this objectively because at that 2001 show I brought a caliper, tape measure and notebook with me and measured them all- headstocks, tailstocks, banjos and beds. Nobody had a bed as massively cast as the Vicmarc, and that's probably still true today. But, that's just one feature to look at. All the "heavies" out there are massive in their own rights.
Budget-wise, I'm not a fan of the "buy something now and upgrade later" thought process. I'd encourage saving now and for a bit longer until you can buy that "just right" machine. Skip the short-term compromise machine. You will save money doing it this way.
Steve,
Owner of a Vicmarc VL 200 shortbed and a Oneway 1224.
Yessir, Neil..... 🙂
I feel exactly the same way about a rotating headstock. Unfortunately, the American woodturning culture seems to gravitate towards a sliding headstock.....and turning off the tailstock side of the lathe for those times when access to the interior of bowls presents a critical need. This is yet another example of how our American woodturning culture tends to change gradually from what's considered as ideal woodturning methods, strategies, tooling, etc., etc., etc.....! People who have spent money, time and effort following "the herd" don't like to consider alternatives to what is the established way to do things. This is hard to fathom, but on many fronts, the American culture seems to follow the herd much more diligently, than does the rest of the world.
For me, the one real very huge advantage to the rotating headstock, is the whole darn turning doesn't have to be uprooted from its usual positioning on the lathe in order to satisfy one operation among many others that involve bowl turning. A rotating headstock may be a little more complicated from an engineering standpoint when compared to a sliding headstock......but, from a woodturner's perspective, it is so much more advantageous.
-o-
@Brent@TurnRobust
After 20+ years I'm happy with my oneway 2436. I have a 17" extension in the front of the lathe that I thought I needed to turn bowls. It sat there for 20 years as I much prefer turning bowls over the bed. Recently added it to the back. 5 of my friends have bought Languna's and love them. If I were to downsize, It would be a Laguna. Can't beat the price performance. There is no shortage of choices. Good Luck and let us know what you purchased!
The powermatic 3520b has treated me right for years. Right price point and quality.
I can appreciate the sentiment but one of the well known Professional Woodturners (I can’t recall which one) suggests it’s not such a good idea. Personally I agree. If I had the space I’d be happy with a headstock that just slides along the bed. Of course if I did mainly bowl turning then the VB36, with a fixed head would be a natural choice.
Hello Bill.....
I can also appreciate the sentiment.....but, you, I, and your "well known professional woodturner" are going to remain in disagreement about the value of a rotating headstock. 🙂
If you'd care to research the owners of the Vicmarc VL240, you might be persuaded to consider other points of view!.....including Glenn Lucas, whom you might also know as a "well known professional woodturner".
-o-
Hope this isn’t seen as high jacking, but I see little difference between sliding and rotating headstock lathes. The only real advantage of the rotating heads, in my opinion, is that the overall length of area required of the lathe is slightly less. Other than that the differences are in how the banjo/toolrest is accommodated. I’ve turned on a few rotating head lathes and found the way the banjo is fixed is critical to function - some are better than others (one in particular, was a horrible collection of badly cast pieces held together with bolts - but that was a cheap ‘first lathe’ decision). I’ve also turned on several sliding head lathes and in general found them more user friendly and solid in use. Either way, at least for me, standing in front of the rotating blank is a better way to turn that saves a lot of strain on my aging back. In my case, the headstock is only at the left end of the bed very rarely when hollowing and using a steady rest. The vast majority of the time it’s slid to at least half way down the bed or closer to the right end.
I find the more important part of the configuration how the toolrest gets placed and how the headstock is locked down. The Robust headstock(at least my older version) is secured to the ways by a plate that is the same size of the footprint of the headstock casting, making the locked-down headstock incredibly solid.
I find the more important part of the configuration how the toolrest gets placed and how the headstock is locked down. The Robust headstock(at least my older version) is secured to the ways by a plate that is the same size of the footprint of the headstock casting, making the locked-down headstock incredibly solid.
The Nova Nebula headstock slides and rotates. Problem solved.
Outrigger is available. https://www.teknatool.com/products/lathe-accessories/nebula-outrigger-55261/. It's on my shopping list!
There are a few differences it sounds like you are not aware of. The pivoting headstock is a lot faster to set up and move back than the sliding headstock. Also with the pivoting you don’t have to remove the tail stock. I can pivot mine and still use my hollowing system, don think you can do that with the sliding. I have a Record Power with pivoting headstock and it is very solid.
The lathe you buy will depend, to some degree, on how much money you can or want to spend. I started out with the Nova Comet lathe and turned on that for about 3-4 years before upgrading to a Powermatic 3520C. It's a great solid lathe and I am not sorry I bought it. However, the Robust lathes are definitely superior with a very high cost attached to that superiority (superior because the beds are stainless, the swing away tailstock cannot be beat, and it's just a better product). I didn't want to spend an extra $4,000 - $5,000 because I'm older and won't get the 2 decades or more service from a lathe like the Robust (American Beauty would be a better choice than the Sweet 16; not that much more cost and just better features).
Glenn Lucas uses Vicmarc lathes but, when I priced those, they are a significant amount more than the Powermatic was also.
The short bed isn't a great deal in my mind, regardless of whether you turn just bowls and hollow forms or not. I didn't go with it because of height adjustment issues compared to the reglar bed length lathe, the cost isn't much more for the regular length bed, and with a moving head, it doesn't matter that you only turn bowls. Who knows if you won't need the length some day. The Robust lathes have a sliding head also. When I hollow I move the head on my Powermatic down toward the tailstock and just turn from that end.
Glenn Lucas uses Vicmarc lathes but, when I priced those, they are a significant amount more than the Powermatic was also.
The short bed isn't a great deal in my mind, regardless of whether you turn just bowls and hollow forms or not. I didn't go with it because of height adjustment issues compared to the reglar bed length lathe, the cost isn't much more for the regular length bed, and with a moving head, it doesn't matter that you only turn bowls. Who knows if you won't need the length some day. The Robust lathes have a sliding head also. When I hollow I move the head on my Powermatic down toward the tailstock and just turn from that end.
In 5 years ask your friends about the quality of their lagunas and their experiences with customer service.
I’m aware of the advantages of both systems - just don’t subscribe to the notion that speed of setup is one of them. I think the only real advantage is the very slightly smaller footprint in length required in the shop. Without trying to break a sweat, I can tilt the tailstock out of the way and slide the headstock into position in less than 15 seconds it’s a distinction without a difference. The problem with some pivoting head lathes I’ve used in the past is the way the toolrest is positioned. Some of the outriggers are just plain poorly engineered - probably more of a problem on the cheaper models. It does seem appropriate that the better outriggers add to the footprint of the equipment.
Ultimately, we make our decisions based on information and impressions - and, in most cases, feel that we made the best decision. Let’s not manufacture rationales to justify. If you’re physically more comfortable it was a good decision.
I've had my Laguna 24/36 for 6 years, I haven't coddled it. Whatever takes my fancy, is what it does. But, and there is always a but, I did have an issue with the headstock bearings, they were running hot from the get go. A simple replacement of bearings from the local bearing shop did the trick. The replacement was done by the state representative for Laguna at the time.
Apart from that, it has been faultless, my machine was manufactured in 2018, serial number is 22 so I assume its the very first batch.
I have used swivel head Vicmarc lathes, which work very well but they come up short when you wish to do quite large blanks. The Vicmarc VM300 lathe fixes that with the ability to use the rear of the headstock, but then you need a mount for the banjo and so on. Slightly fiddly, to quite fiddly, but once you have a setup that works for you, you are in clover.
This is my 24/36 doing it's first largish bowl on a hot summer day in early February 2019. I put the bed extension on the end in the lower position, and using the tailstock riser and tool rest riser, I was ready to go. Once underway I worked the blank, I then managed to get a set of four bowl blanks from this blank using my coring tool.
That bed extension is also the same bed extension kit that comes with the 18/36 Laguna lathe, I would suggest to anyone with either the 18/36 or 24/36 lathes doing bowls or platters, may wish to think about the bed extension kit; it really works well for these lathes. That blank is around 700mm on the diagonal, the 24/36 can handle around 950mm of material. I use a winch attached to the roof of the garage, roll the lathe under, attach the blank, then wheel the lathe back.
I have only had my new lathe for a couple of weeks, but it has a rotating headstock. Most people think of outboard turning when they hear rotating headstock, but that's only one of several uses. I rotate the headstock for sanding. I can move it any way I like to sand the inside and outside, both. I might also rotate it if I'm applying something messy and don't want the bowl over the ways.
I see the Vicmarc has headstock index stops. I found it odd that the Rikon doesn't have any index stops on the headstock. It rotates freely. I expected there would at least be one for the home position. It's not a problem, I just found it curious.
Agree. I have the Rikon. I think the perfect answer for anyone considering a Laguna and a Rikon is this.
Google the following:
Laguna customer service
Rikon customer service
I haven't tried those yet but I know what the results will be.
I don't doubt that they are good lathes, but I could never recommend one due to their customer service record.
The following is a general statement and not directed at you. Customer service is important to us as woodturners. Why? Because we hate our lathe being down. If I have an issue with my Rikon, I know I'll have a fix within a few days, at most.
Hi Mick, I'm glad you have had a good experience with your 18/36. I wish I had have the same experience with my 12/16 that you have had and maybe's it's one of the differences between their larger lathes and smaller ones. I've had my Laguna for almost 5 years and had have lots of trouble with it. But my biggest issue has been with their customer service department. I have not had a good experience with them, on several occasions. Because of those experiences I will not purchase another Laguna lathe.
I’ve been trying to remember who it was and I think it was Stuart Batty that mentioned it during one of his demonstrations. I’m sure you’ve heard of him. I don’t think he elaborated on the point though.
I suspect it may be due to the number of extra parts required to enable a head to rotate. I had a lathe with a rotating head and I’m sure it wasn’t as solid as a similar size lathe with a fixed head. Seeing the amount of Banjo overhang on a rotated head also can’t be a good thing either. I’m not interested in a new lathe but if I were it wouldn’t be a Vicmarc. I mentioned in another thread that my ideal lathe would be a Powermatic.
I've heard complaints of rotating headstock lathes in the past that weren't engineered very well. Of course, I know who Stuart Batty is, and I'm wondering just what lathes with rotating headstock he was referring to.....considering there has been some very poorly executed examples over the years. A well-engineered rotating headstock is something that quite a few turners do prefer over the sliding headstock lathes that are more common in the US market these days. The opposite appears to be true and gaining momentum in the international marketplace.....and with some very prominent turners worldwide.
As for your personal preferences in what is important to you....you are certainly entitled to your opinions. The same freedom to have personal preferences applies to me, as well. 🙂
-o-
I remember a Batty demo video (on how tools cut) where he was commenting on vibration coming from the headstock..... it was a club, and he was using a Powermatic, and he was shimming the headstock, I think. But I think Powermatics slide, not rotate? And he turns on a Vicmarc which rotates, but doesn't slide? I am thinking maybe it's all a bit mixed up. I may have the PM and Vicmarc features mixed up, too, I have never used either.
I have not had any experience in dealing with customer service for my Laguna 18/36 that I have been turning on for the past four years. I have not had any reason to contact their service department because I have not had any issues with the lathe. I did replace the clamping lever handle for the tool rest. The replacement handle cost $8.15 from Amazon. I do overtighten the tool rest clamp.
As far as quality I consider the 18/36 a very capable lathe that has provided me with a great turning experience.
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The powermatic slides and does not rotate.
The Vicmarc 300 headstock is fixed. That is probably the model Batty uses.
The Vicmarc 240 rotates. It is a fairly recent addition to the Vicmarc line.
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This is the video I remember.... around 19:00 he starts talking about vibration and 'moving' headstocks (it's a Powermatic). Says he would never have a moving headstock.
Hey Kent, next time you're turning the inside of a bowl try rotating the HS, say +30*, and see if you like the access better.
Also, you mentioned that your HS does not have a detent/index for 0*. That seems strange to me, too. That might be worth asking CS about. Ideally you want to be able to swivel the HS back to 0* without removing the work to check the alignment.
I'll try that. It never occurred to me on regular bowls, frankly.
On returning the headstock to the 0 position, yes, it's inconvenient to remove the work to use the alignment tool. If I had a chucked bowl mounted, I would just eyeball the headstock back to 0. The problem with that approach, is that 2 days later I will have forgotten I eyeballed it and then wonder why things aren't working quite right. A detent would definitely be welcomed.
@Kent Reisdorph , I posted a response in your Rikon review thread.
This may not be a perfect alignment solution, but how about, when you know alignment has been achieved, using a square and an awl to strike intersecting indicator/witness marks at the base of the headstock and on the bed. Anchor the square to the bed against the headstock and with the awl, lightly scratch in (several times to deepen the scratches) the intersecting marks. This would aid eyeballing headstock alignment until you use your alignment tool. For best marking accuracy, you may want to scrape off a small patch of paint to make the mark on the headstock.
Record Power lathes are understandably popular over here, and I’ve seen quite a number of comments from users having difficulty realigning the head after rotating it. The solution some have found is to use a double ended morse taper.
Many years ago I was discussing the design of a part with an engineer. I asked wouldn’t it have been cheaper and easier to make it in two parts bolted together? To which he replied, yes but it would never be as rigid and able to absorb vibrations as well as a single piece.
Many years ago I was discussing the design of a part with an engineer. I asked wouldn’t it have been cheaper and easier to make it in two parts bolted together? To which he replied, yes but it would never be as rigid and able to absorb vibrations as well as a single piece.
The Record Power has a detent ball that clicks into place. I double check it with a drive center and live center by aligning the points. Takes about 30 seconds. Not sure why it would be cheaper and easier to make a double MT in two parts and bolt it together.
I had a lathe with a detent but it still didn’t provide perfect alignment.
You misunderstood my post. If you notice it was in two separate paragraphs.
I wasn’t talking about bolting two Morse tapers together. They come ready made.
As did I. I think the second paragraph needed just a touch more context to separate it from the first. "...discussing the design of a [insert name of part here for clarity] with an engineer..."
After seeing your reply, I re-read your two paragraphs and then understood the message.
I find it interesting how these threads that ask for advice on the best lathe to buy evolve over the course of discussion. Lots of good advice here. My advice remains the same as it was when I was searching for my 'last' lathec - do your homework, make a list of the candidates and what you want/need in a lathe, then do whatever it takes to get some actual time turning on all of them. Does it take a longer time? Oh yeah - I spent a year getting there and learned a lot in the process while meeting some very nice people.
Reps and distributors can help you find owners in your area that may be willing to let you check out their choice and local clubs are always good sources - most turners are delighted to open their doors and show off a little. In my case there were 5 clubs within a 100 mile radius of where I live and several more south of me if I didn't mind a little drive. I took my own chucks, tools and blanks just in case the owner didn't mind me making some shavings, and always cleaned up after myself - often taking the bags of shavings with me. I discovered several things in the process - there were things that needed to be added to my list and several were removed.
I turn mostly bowls, platters and hollow forms, with smaller boxes added in once in a while. For me, a generous swing over the bed and at least 2 hp was near the top of the list. My current lathe had a sliding head, so I was familiar with the benefits and that made the list. I was close to retirement at the time, so a tool that was well designed and engineered with good components that were replaceable was mandatory. So was excellent, helpful customer service (something that becomes more apparent when discussing with reps and distributors).
In the end I had saved enough over the research period that the lathe at the top of my list but seemingly out the question because of cost, was suddenly within a comfortable stretch of the budget. Because time wasn't an issue, I was able to negotiate a little and take delivery at the AAW Symposium to save on shipping costs. I also bought a tool that fits perfectly into my turning style and routine and continues to please me every time I enter the shop – and its been 12 years now.
Much has been said about the benefits of fixed head, sliding head and rotating head lathes, but, in the end, sliding and rotating heads do only one thing - allow the turner to stand up a little straighter in front of the work. There's less/no reaching over the bed to position a gouge for hollowing a bowl, less impact on the back, torso and arm muscles. Get whichever will fit your space best and is engineered to lock down well and whichever allows secure placement of the banjo (I'm not a fan of freestanding outboard tool rest supports). In my case, I found that having the ability to adjust the spindle height was important - I don't like the idea of having to build a support to stand on or finding a way to get the spindle up to where it's comfortable for me to turn (I'm on the taller side). If you're shorter, make certain it will go down to where you are or plan for turning on a platform.
At the end of the day - this is your decision. Reviews and opinions are great sources of information. Take all input with a generous helping of salt, but spend some time kicking tires and comparing options - and enjoy the process.
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Your story is a nice one.
But you might add outboard as another stand in front of option.
A 17” outboard on a ONEWAY gives all the same posture benifits without the need to unlock, move, and lock the headstock.
Having an outboard banjo is a benefit too.