Magma cast iron

[Omer Klee]

Has anyone here had experience with the Magma Titanium cast lathes either the 400 or 315 as well as the Titan 400 or 315 in the steel version?
I’m wondering if there is a noticeable difference in how easy the tail stock and banjo moves on them and if one dampens vibration better.

 

[odie]

Sorry.....can't answer your question, Omer.

However, I tend to consider weight of the lathe a much more important specification than the composition of the material used......however, I'm open to discussion by those who feel the material used is a factor worth consideration.

These Titan lathes are impressive, and I like that they have a swivel headstock.

Here's a link to the website:

Magma qualitativ hochwertige Maschinen und Werkzeuge zur Holzbearbeitung

Magma ist seit über 30 Jahren Spezialist wenn es um hochwertige Maschinen und Werkzeuge zur Holzbearbeitung geht. Seit mehr als 20 Jahren bietet die Innviertler Firma auch Drechselkurse. Weltweit bekannt sind die Internationalen Magma Vorführtage.

magma-titan.com

There are some videos in the drop down menu. The first is in Swedish, but the others are in English.

I assume 315 and 400 is the radius swing, and not diameter....correct?



-----odie-----

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I’ll have to plead the 5th amendment here. I get in trouble every time this subject comes up. All lathes are created equal and can live peacefully amongst each other.

 

[Omer Klee]

Sorry.....can't answer your question, Omer.

However, I tend to consider weight of the lathe a much more important specification than the composition of the material used......however, I'm open to discussion by those who feel the material used is a factor worth consideration.

These Titan lathes are impressive, and I like that they have a swivel headstock.

Here's a link to the website:

Magma qualitativ hochwertige Maschinen und Werkzeuge zur Holzbearbeitung

Magma ist seit über 30 Jahren Spezialist wenn es um hochwertige Maschinen und Werkzeuge zur Holzbearbeitung geht. Seit mehr als 20 Jahren bietet die Innviertler Firma auch Drechselkurse. Weltweit bekannt sind die Internationalen Magma Vorführtage.

magma-titan.com

There are some videos in the drop down menu. The first is in Swedish, but the others are in English.

I assume 315 and 400 is the radius swing, and not diameter....correct?



-----odie-----

Hi Odie
I’ve been doing a lot of research on them. The swivel headstock is a big plus for me. My back doesn’t like me bending over the bed. I would love the Titan400 in steel but I’m tight! The cast machines are thousands less.
I have contacted Magma and they are willing to make me a hybrid (315 headstock , tool rest and tailstock (from a Titanium) on a steel bed. I’m waiting for the salesman to get back to me with a price. He’s going to check into shipping, import fees/duties and taxes as well.
Hoping the price is right.
And yes the 315 and 400 are the radius swing over the bed.

 

[odie]

Hi Odie
I’ve been doing a lot of research on them. The swivel headstock is a big plus for me. My back doesn’t like me bending over the bed. I would love the Titan400 in steel but I’m tight! The cast machines are thousands less.
I have contacted Magma and they are willing to make me a hybrid (315 headstock , tool rest and tailstock (from a Titanium) on a steel bed. I’m waiting for the salesman to get back to me with a price. He’s going to check into shipping, import fees/duties and taxes as well.
Hoping the price is right.
And yes the 315 and 400 are the radius swing over the bed.

Hope you get one of these, and let us know your thoughts on it......

So, can I assume you feel the titanium might be more absorbent of vibration, than cast iron?.....or was that a simple open-ended enquiry? I'm sure you've read this, but for the benefit of those who haven't seen this.....here's what Titan has to say:

Cast iron versus steel

Cast iron has been without doubt a useful material to build a wood turning lathe in the past and for generations it has been the material of first choice in mechanical engineering. However, technology has moved on and it is now possible

to machine high-alloyed steel using diamond cutting tools not available in bygone days. The many types of high quality steel which are available today have made our choice an easy one. After all, why use good quality casting, when the finest quality steel is available to produce high performance machines with top specifications for crafting woodturning

lathes. These precision machines will be enjoyed by future generations for many years to come, in the knowledge that any worn parts can be exchanged for new spare parts of the same high quality. This could not have been guaranteed easily for broken or worn parts

made of cast iron because of the demand of casting molds.

That 400 swing would be 31.5 inches diameter.....that's huge!

The 315 would be 24" capacity.

-----odie-----

 

[Tim Tucker]

Omer.....
With exchange rates...freight...wait time....no support in the USA.....
Why not call Robust - which are made in Wisconsin, have the longest warranty, and are widely supported here.....and go for a visit? Remember that price is either something you cry once about....or every time you wish you had spent a little more more for top quality.....

 

[odie]

Omer.....
With exchange rates...freight...wait time....no support in the USA.....
Why not call Robust - which are made in Wisconsin, have the longest warranty, and are widely supported here.....and go for a visit? Remember that price is either something you cry once about....or every time you wish you had spent a little more more for top quality.....

Hi Tim......

If he's thinking like me, The one and only reason I wouldn't consider a Robust lathe, is they aren't offered with a swivel headstock.

I admire the Robust line of lathes a lot, and have done business with Brent in the past......and, it was a very good experience. He offers a great product, well engineered, well built.....can't think of anything about them that isn't first class. Unfortunately, he doesn't produce a product that matches the requirements of some of us turners.

-----odie-----

 

[Tim Tucker]

Odie -
What about the moving of the headstock to the end of the lathe? I have my head stock in a place that is not far from then de of the bed - because I can't crank my back over the bed either. But - with e headstock slid almost all of the way toward the end of the lathe bed - I can turn in a comfortable manner can sit comfortably and sand even while sitting on a nice padded shop stool. Just a thought......

 

[odie]

Odie -
What about the moving of the headstock to the end of the lathe? I have my head stock in a place that is not far from then de of the bed - because I can't crank my back over the bed either. But - with e headstock slid almost all of the way toward the end of the lathe bed - I can turn in a comfortable manner can sit comfortably and sand even while sitting on a nice padded shop stool. Just a thought......

Hey there, Tim......

Swiveling the headstock, in my case, would be so much easier than removing all the special tools I prefer to keep on the tailstock side of my lathe. Besides that, I could stand where I usually do.....that may not be important to some turners, but it's a consideration for me. I have a space problem in my shop, and there just isn't enough room to comfortably turn off the end of the bedways.



In any case, it does seem like the US market is the result of what most American turners want......a sliding headstock. It seems like foreign manufacturers servicing an international marketplace are the only place swivel headstocks are in demand. I'm not sure why that is, but it may have something to do with how lathes are marketed here in the states. The demand for sliding headstocks is a creation of that, and so is the demand for swivel headstocks in the foreign marketplace.......(just my take on it, anyway!)

-----odie-----

 

[Tim Tucker]

I see your point. - What a shame that no manufacturers in the U.S. - see the rationale. If we had a headstock that rotated - AND slid....well, we can dream....

 

[Omer Klee]

Hope you get one of these, and let us know your thoughts on it......

So, can I assume you feel the titanium might be more absorbent of vibration, than cast iron?.....or was that a simple open-ended enquiry? I'm sure you've read this, but for the benefit of those who haven't seen this.....here's what Titan has to say:


That 400 swing would be 31.5 inches diameter.....that's huge!

The 315 would be 24" capacity.

-----odie-----

Odie
My objectives are to have a solid lathe with a headstock that swivels, has a 3hp motor, has a tool rest and tailstock that glide on the steel bed and hopefully keep the price under ten thousand dollars. That’s why I’m checking on the hybrid rather than going with the Titan400 in steel.
I’ll let you know how this plays out.

 

[Omer Klee]

Odie -
What about the moving of the headstock to the end of the lathe? I have my head stock in a place that is not far from then de of the bed - because I can't crank my back over the bed either. But - with e headstock slid almost all of the way toward the end of the lathe bed - I can turn in a comfortable manner can sit comfortably and sand even while sitting on a nice padded shop stool. Just a thought......

Hi Tim
I have looked into the AB. I have communicated with Brent a few times. But like Odie points out I really want a headstock that swivels. The Magma Black line have more of the features I’m looking for and right now the euro equals 1.09USD. Of course shipping and import fees may end all

 

[Jim McLain]

Has anyone here had experience with the Magma Titanium cast lathes either the 400 or 315 as well as the Titan 400 or 315 in the steel version?
I’m wondering if there is a noticeable difference in how easy the tail stock and banjo moves on them and if one dampens vibration better.

Omer - I have been turning on the steel version of the Titan 400 for several years and love it. I also have a Vicmarc VL240 which is a great little lathe with a swivel head. I have also owned a Oneway 2436 and an Robust American Beauty in the past. All are good lathes but I really like the swivel head feature and the Titan is the best large lathe with this feature but the Vicmarc is a sweet little lathe. If you would like to talk more feel free to call me at 575-517-6535.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Jim -
I too would like to hear more about this lathe...I hope you don't mind if I call you as well?

Omer - I received an Axminster sale e-mail. I am not sure who makes their lathes, but I love my Axminster chucks. Truly finer machining and features than my Vicmarcs.
And.....there is a lathe they sell that might fit the bill : https://www.axminstertools.com/us/axminster-professional-ap508wl-woodturning-lathe-230v-107657

 

[Omer Klee]

Jim -
I too would like to hear more about this lathe...I hope you don't mind if I call you as well?

Omer - I received an Axminster sale e-mail. I am not sure who makes their lathes, but I love my Axminster chucks. Truly finer machining and features than my Vicmarcs.
And.....there is a lathe they sell that might fit the bill : https://www.axminstertools.com/us/axminster-professional-ap508wl-woodturning-lathe-230v-107657

Hi Tim
It is a nice lathe. But their website says it’s not available for international delivery.

 

[Jim McLain]

Jim -
I too would like to hear more about this lathe...I hope you don't mind if I call you as well?

Omer - I received an Axminster sale e-mail. I am not sure who makes their lathes, but I love my Axminster chucks. Truly finer machining and features than my Vicmarcs.
And.....there is a lathe they sell that might fit the bill : https://www.axminstertools.com/us/axminster-professional-ap508wl-woodturning-lathe-230v-107657

Tim - Don’t mind at all.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Omer.....
With exchange rates...freight...wait time....no support in the USA.....
Why not call Robust - which are made in Wisconsin, have the longest warranty, and are widely supported here.....and go for a visit? Remember that price is either something you cry once about....or every time you wish you had spent a little more more for top quality.....

Especially considering that you could get to the Robust factory in less than 2hrs from Caledonia and try one out.

 

[odie]

Especially considering that you could get to the Robust factory in less than 2hrs from Caledonia and try one out.

I have looked into the AB. I have communicated with Brent a few times. But like Odie points out I really want a headstock that swivels.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I don't understand. What is the advantage to a swiveling headstock?

 

[odie]

I don't understand. What is the advantage to a swiveling headstock?

Hi Tom......see post #9

The swiveling headstock may not be seen as an advantage by those who would prefer a sliding headstock, but rest assured there are those who do think the swiveling headstock has advantages a sliding headstock doesn't address.

One thing that is new, and a welcome concept is having a headstock that does both. It seems there are a few major foreign manufacturers of professional quality lathes who are taking this into consideration.....this is the basic philosophy of capitalism at work!

attn: @Brent@TurnRobust

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

I don't understand. What is the advantage to a swiveling headstock?

It’s all personal choices and how it fits with your style.
Pivoting to hollow a bowl is a lot faster than getting the tailstock out of the way, sliding the banjo, and sliding the headstock.
5-10 seconds vs 30-60 seconds
Also saves space in cramped quarters.

People that have the convenience of an outboard don’t see the advantage in a sliding headstock that takes longer to set up.
Pivoting is faster than moving to an outboard. Pivoting 180 would put you on the outboard.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I doubt if "315 mm swing" means 24 inch capacity. I am unaware of any manufacturer who quotes radius instead of diameter. I will bet you a beer that it is a 12 inch swing = 12 inch capacity.

 

[robo hippy]

My first 'real' lathe was a 3520A, one of the very early ones, and I bought it because of the sliding headstock. My next lathe was a Robust AB, 3 hp and a sliding headstock, and it has 3 speed ranges. Again, one of the very early ones. As far as vibration issues, the only difference I noticed was that they made different noises. With the AB, there is a bit more vibration on larger bowls, like in the 12 inch range, which I attribute to the bell housing on the headstock spindle, which puts the mounted bowl out another inch or two off of the headstock tower. This vibration is totally gone when the tailstock is engaged. The swing away set up on the AB is the best out there, and time to move it is seconds, maybe. I don't have the one with the little hydraulic piston, and it is still pretty much effortless.

As far as experience with pivoting head lathes, I have a Vicmark 240. It pivots to 30 and 90 degrees, and at the 90 degree setting, you can pretty much turn down to the floor. With the 30 degree setting, you can turn 14 or more inches comfortably. I have no experience with the Titan lathes, haven't even seen one. I really like the Vic 240. The standard banjo will turn all regular bowls at the pivoted position. I like the headstock design because the spindle is right on the headstock tower, rather than in any housing, so your piece mounts closer to the headstock rather than cantilevering out a ways. It also has 3 speeds and has a 2 hp motor. Yes, I can stall it, but I haven't met a lathe yet that I couldn't stall. Yes, I am on the Brute Squad! It is not lacking for power. It is cast iron, and at least as heavy as my AB. I needed help arm wrestling it across the floor.

Some of the old Jet lathes had pivoting and sliding headstocks. That was in the early days of the pivoting. I know the Nova lathes pivot as well. I did turn on one of the Novas for a demo once, and when you swing it back to parallel with the bed, you had to fiddle with it to get it to line up spot on. With the Vic, you pull a pin, which fits pretty tight, and move to the desired position, then put the pin back in. It goes back spot on every single time. Part of me thinks that a headstock that both slides and pivots could present alignment problems. Maybe not, if they have straightened out all the possible kinks.

robo hippy

 

[Jim McLain]

I doubt if "315 mm swing" means 24 inch capacity. I am unaware of any manufacturer who quotes radius instead of diameter. I will bet you a beer that it is a 12 inch swing = 12 inch capacity.

Not sure why but Vicmarc and Titan both use the radius in their product number.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

I doubt if "315 mm swing" means 24 inch capacity.

I doubted it at first also, but watch the video. It is a big lathe. The motor is in the headstock under the spindle. The specifications appear reasonable. It's closer to a 30" diameter capacity.

Joe

 

[odie]

I doubt if "315 mm swing" means 24 inch capacity. I am unaware of any manufacturer who quotes radius instead of diameter. I will bet you a beer that it is a 12 inch swing = 12 inch capacity.

I doubted it at first also, but watch the video. It is a big lathe. The motor is in the headstock under the spindle. The specifications appear correct.

Joe

Michael.....

Seems to me I remember that in ancient times, metal working lathe specs were only given as a radius, and that's where these specifications all started. I can only guess that US specs for wood lathes followed this, until there was confusion. It then became a diameter specification, instead of a radius. We are discussing a foreign made lathe in this thread, and it may be that the old standard is still being used.

-----odie-----

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Hi Tim
It is a nice lathe. But their website says it’s not available for international delivery.

Omer, this page at their website says it is available for US delivery. And shipping is free.

Axminster Professional AP508WL Woodturning Lathe - 230V

This is the largest in our Professional Series woodturning lathes. It has all the features a serious woodturner would need for almost any woodturning project, large or small. Made almost entirely in cast iron, with the bed being particularly wide and...

www.axminstertools.com

It's a very sweet lathe! Only thing I don't like about is the M33 spindle (instead of 1 1/4" x 8).

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I see your point. - What a shame that no manufacturers in the U.S. - see the rationale. If we had a headstock that rotated - AND slid....well, we can dream....

The Nova Galaxi headstock pivots and slides. And so does the Axminster.

I did turn on one of the Novas for a demo once, and when you swing it back to parallel with the bed, you had to fiddle with it to get it to line up spot on. With the Vic, you pull a pin, which fits pretty tight, and move to the desired position, then put the pin back in. It goes back spot on every single time. Part of me thinks that a headstock that both slides and pivots could present alignment problems. Maybe not, if they have straightened out all the possible kinks.

I don't doubt that was your experience at that demo, but I can report that all the Nova's I have played with at shows in the last four years have a detent mechanism for the swiveling head and at least in the case of my own 1624 the head swivels back to perfect alignment with the tailstock without any fiddling. In fact I bought the "alignment tool" only to discover I have no need of it.

 

[odie]

Part of me thinks that a headstock that both slides and pivots could present alignment problems.

Robo......

Off hand it would seem like the play necessary for the sliding mechanism would be more problematic than a swiveling head that would turn on a pivot point......

-----odie-----

 

[odie]

It's a very sweet lathe! Only thing I don't like about is the M33 spindle (instead of 1 1/4" x 8).

Mark.....check this out under the headstock information:

"M33/DIN800 spindle thread, hardened for durability (other spindle thread sizes available up to M50 on request)"

The M33 would be a deal killer for me, and I'd also prefer 1" tool post diameter (haven't seen any info on that)

-----odie-----

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Mark.....check this out under the headstock information:

"M33/DIN800 spindle thread, hardened for durability (other spindle thread sizes available up to M50 on request)"

The M33 would be a deal killer for me, and I'd also prefer 1" tool post diameter (haven't seen any info on that)

-----odie-----

Actually, on a lark I sent them an email asking if a poor damn yankee could get a 1 1/4" x 8 spindle (well that's not exactly how I phrased the question). I didn't think about the tool post diameter, but that's an important question.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I stand corrected on the swing. Come to Cleveland and I'll buy you a Burning River Pale Ale.

 

[Terry Vaughan]

I have a Titan 315 with a steel bed and love it. I haven’t noticed any difference between the steel and cast iron lathes I have owned. I like the swivel headstock and wouldn’t want a lathe without this feature. No problems with the sliding headstock, but don’t find this particularly useful. The 3HP motor means I very rarely need to change to the lower speed range. And yes, the 315 is the spindle height in millimetres, so it swings about 24” over the bed. The points I don’t like so much are the spindle thread, which is slightly too long for most accessories to fit without a spacer washer, though Oneway and Vicmarc are OK. And the Magma long tool rests are too flexible at the ends, even with the 40mm post.

 

[William Rogers]

Robo......

Off hand it would seem like the play necessary for the sliding mechanism would be more problematic than a swiveling head that would turn on a pivot point......

-----odie-----

And of course and I think the opposite

 

[odie]

And of course and I think the opposite

Hi William.....

As I see it, a pivot point could have a positive stop without any play, whereas a sliding mechanism must necessarily have some play to allow the the headstock to slide freely. Unless there is a way to take up the play evenly when it's locked down, there will always be that amount of play that will interfere with it's registration with the tailstock.

A pivot point with a positive stop is limited only by the amount of play in the locking mechanism, plus any play in the pivot point itself.
By virtue of design, the possible error is less than a sliding mechanism.

Certainly, I'm speaking of theory here, and if the play which allows the headstock to slide is only a matter of a few thousandths, then my point is insignificant. As a practical example.....while using my tailstock (which slides similarly in design to a sliding headstock), I do twist the tailstock in a clockwise direction prior to locking it down, and thus eliminating any inherent play. When I do this, it does align with the spindle more precisely. It probably wouldn't make any difference at all in a "real world" application, because the movement is only a few thousandths.

When both the headstock and tailstock have this sliding design, then the possible registration error is compounded.

-----odie-----

 

[Doug Freeman]

Nova Galaxy pivot HS lathe - address some questions in this thread:

Pivot vs Sliding:
> TS and other "stuff" on the bed can stay there
> No lifting of TS
> No need to slide the HS
> Sanding/finishing/buffing can be done at 90°, no bed in the way, no drips on the bed
> outrigger adds 13" to swing, total of 29", adds 5" to lathe length vs 20" bed extension

Re-alignment:
> Repeatable, easy and simple
> There is a small bit of play in the HS detent and in the TS when not locked. Adjust HS/TS to align as you lightly preload them to whatever position you choose, and lock down. Repeats every time.

Structural Integrity:
> Haven't found any issues turning items close to max size for the lathe. Sure there can be resonance from the tool edge through the piece to the lathe. Speed, tool size, depth of cut, and perhaps some dust under the HS can all play a role. Some call it vibration. It is, but its a resonance which is a result of a particular combination of variables - change the variables and it goes away. Fixed HS lathes are less vulnerable to the resonance, but give up a lot of flexibility. A pivot design gets more difficult with larger swing lathes. They are not a solution for XL turning.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I don't understand. What is the advantage to a swiveling headstock?

I have had the discs in my neck removed and fused together from C4 to C7. I also have spinal stenosis in T 9&10 and L2&3 so having to bend and reach out to hollow the inside of a bowl doesn’t work for me. I can turn the headstock for turning the inside which lets me stand up straight and keeps the pain to a minimum. It will also let me turn a larger project by not having to turn over the bed.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I looked at the like to their site and the electronics are 50 cycle. That will have to be upgraded.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I looked at the like to their site and the electronics are 50 cycle. That will have to be upgraded.

Rusty, I am no electrician ( in fact all I know about electricity I learned from peeing on an electric fence when I was 7 yrs. old....hated it every since....) but - I have been told by my electrician that the euro 50 cycle stuff really does not mind being run on 60 cycle 220 voltage. He said the tool may run a little faster - but should not hurt the electronics. Again, I only know what I am told......

 

[William Rogers]

Hi William.....

As I see it, a pivot point could have a positive stop without any play, whereas a sliding mechanism must necessarily have some play to allow the the headstock to slide freely. Unless there is a way to take up the play evenly when it's locked down, there will always be that amount of play that will interfere with it's registration with the tailstock.

A pivot point with a positive stop is limited only by the amount of play in the locking mechanism, plus any play in the pivot point itself.
By virtue of design, the possible error is less than a sliding mechanism.

Certainly, I'm speaking of theory here, and if the play which allows the headstock to slide is only a matter of a few thousandths, then my point is insignificant. As a practical example.....while using my tailstock (which slides similarly in design to a sliding headstock), I do twist the tailstock in a clockwise direction prior to locking it down, and thus eliminating any inherent play. When I do this, it does align with the spindle more precisely. It probably wouldn't make any difference at all in a "real world" application, because the movement is only a few thousandths.

When both the headstock and tailstock have this sliding design, then the possible registration error is compounded.

-----odie-----

Hi Odie

Actually I don’t think the opposite. I don’t believe one has an advantage over the other. You will have some “play” with either. To me when you pivot or slide the head there is that chance. When I slide my headstock to the end the tailstock is out of the way same as a pivot. When I return my headstock or when the pivot is returned seems to me you can have similar results using the tailstock as they slide similar. No difference in my mind. I don’t buy a sliding headstock has more chance for problems. I don’t think either better than the other and both are acceptable. As with anything it depends on the quality of the mfg.