What is a fair price for these lathes, and this hollowing tool?

[Adam Vila]

I'm looking at upgrading from my Jet 1642 lathe and considering buying one of two used lathes available to me, both with very different capabilities and price points. Capabilities aside, I'm wondering what the collective wisdom in this forum suggests would be a fair price for me to offer? I also really like the Rikon 70-3040 for its compact form and ability to turn up to 30" between centers, but a new one feels a little bit beyond my budget at this point. Live in Hawaii and missed the Rikon 15% off sale in March at Woodcraft.

Powermatic 3520a, motor dated 1/2002:


The other is a Vicmarc VL300 long bed (age unknown):



The hollowing tool below (new, still in package) is being offered with the Powermatic sale. I already have the larger version of the Trent Bosch Hollowing System, but it seems like this one could handle much deeper hollow forms and vases. Curious if anyone has experience using this boring tool, and what I might offer for it:


Thank you to anyone reading this, I welcome any and all comments.

 

[Darryl Fective]

I don't think I'd get any disagreement when I say the Vicmarc is an awesome lathe; way better than any Powermatic.

 

[Adam Vila]

I don't think I'd get any disagreement when I say the Vicmarc is an awesome lathe; way better than any Powermatic.

No doubt many will agree. What would you offer for this Vicmarc, assuming there are no known issues?

 

[hughie]

down under they sell well and hold their price 1800-2000 AUD$ with tools around $2500. This is only a guesstimate as they come and go fast. But much would depend on age, new or in pristine condition, probably 3000+ as new they are over 6000

 

[Adam Vila]

down under they sell well and hold their price 1800-2000 AUD$ with tools around $2500. This is only a guesstimate as they come and go fast.

I assume you're talking about the powermatic. Sounds like a deal to me. Converted to USD, that's about $1,280 without tools, $1,600 with tools. At that price, I am definitely a buyer.

 

[Darryl Fective]

You could offer $4500 and see what they say. (if it's local)

 

[hughie]

I assume you're talking about the powermatic. Sounds like a deal to me. Converted to USD, that's about $1,280 without tools, $1,600 with tools. At that price, I am definitely a buyer.

oops sorry no the Vicmarc, Powermatic really arnt available as there would no support

 

[Adam Vila]

You could offer $4500 and see what they say. (if it's local)

I saw a post where someone was selling for $4200, so that's not too far off.

Thread 'Lathe for sale: Vicmarc VL300 CS Series Longbed Variable Speed. Appleton, WI'

Nov 23, 2022

Description:
The Vicmarc VL300 EVS lathe is capable of holding work up to 24" diameter, and is powered by a variable speed drive with a 3 h.p. motor that handles large work with ease. The lathe has a heavy cast iron construction and a steel base which dampens vibrations.
Features:
-Electronic variable speed drive (reversible)
-Remote switch box
-Vibration absorbing cast iron construction
-Solid 5mm thick steel stand
-Wide footprint for stability
Specifications:
-Swing Over Bed: 24"
-Distance Between Centers: 48"
-Indexing Holes: 24
-Headstock & Tailstock Spindle: No. 2 MT...

• Larry Mercier
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Marketplace Archives

• 

 

[Adam Vila]

oops sorry no the Vicmarc, Powermatic really arnt available as there would no support

If this is what they're going for there, we need to open an import/export business. Tariffs, no problem. $1600 for a VicMarc VL300 longbed is a deal that I find far too good to be true.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Vicmarc, no question. Built to last forever. Go to the Vicmarc website and you find a video on how to repack, or replace, the tapered roller bearings as a DIY Saturday project.

VL300, 200, and 100 have all spent many, many years with me. Wonderful machines.

 

[Adam Vila]

Vicmarc, no question. Built to last forever. Go to the Vicmarc website and you find a video on how to repack, or replace, the tapered roller bearings as a DIY Saturday project.

VL300, 200, and 100 have all spent many, many years with me. Wonderful machines.

Thank you, Steve. Ballpark an offer price for a used VL300 long bed for me, please.

 

[Scott Hoefs]

As far as the hollowing system goes, if you are interested in doing deep hollowing, ie vases 40" the McEvoy hollowing system is.... IMO the best, but.. I recently had one replicated by a local fabricator. It cost me around $1200, I forget as a defense mechanism for when my wife asks me how much it cost. It doesn't do the small opening vesels as the boring bar is 1 1/2".
I agree on the Vicmarc, but I would also pursue the hollowing system if that's what you want to do.

my $.02

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Thank you, Steve. Ballpark an offer price for a used VL300 long bed for me, please.

I haven't any idea. How much is the seller asking? If you are comfortable with the price, buy it. If not, haggle some, see if they come down. It's only money, and you can't take it with you. If the machine brings you joy and satisfaction, it was worth the price.

That silver tag at the lower front of the headstock may have the year of manufacture. All of mine did.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Vicmarc, no question. Built to last forever. Go to the Vicmarc website and you find a video on how to repack, or replace, the tapered roller bearings as a DIY Saturday project.

VL300, 200, and 100 have all spent many, many years with me. Wonderful machines.

And if you do the bearings as preventative maintenance (a very good idea for any older machine, and not a very difficult task here), replace the belt at the same time. Bearings, if needing replacement and not just new grease, are standard fare at any bearing shop, belt as well.

Here is the part 1 video for bearing and belt service. Scroll down the list for part 2. And farther down the list for bearing seat removal and replacement. Lots of videos here, made in the Vicmarc factory.

Videos | Vicmarc

www.vicmarc.com

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I would offer up to $3000 for the Vicmarc, and $1500 for the Powermatic.

 

[Richard Coers]

I would offer up to $3000 for the Vicmarc, and $1500 for the Powermatic.

$1,500 is a common street price for a 2hp Jet 1642. The Powermatic should go for around $2,500 and the hollowing system for $1,000. No idea on the Vicmark.

 

[robo hippy]

The biggest difference between the two lathes, to me, is the PM has a sliding headstock and the Vic does not. Since I turn mostly bowls and do not like turning bowls on long bed lathes, I would prefer the PM. I have a Vicmark 240 with the pivoting headstock, and love it. One advantage the Vic has, is 3 speed pulleys. I consider that optimal. My Robust was one of the first, and it has the 3 speed pulleys. What that does is offer the option of very slow speeds for coring, though middle pulley works fine for that. Oh, on the PM, check the pressure plate on the bottom of the headstock. The first ones were cast iron, and mine snapped while coring some black locust. You want a steel plate!

robo hippy

 

[Adam Vila]

As far as the hollowing system goes, if you are interested in doing deep hollowing, ie vases 40" the McEvoy hollowing system is.... IMO the best, but.. I recently had one replicated by a local fabricator. It cost me around $1200, I forget as a defense mechanism for when my wife asks me how much it cost. It doesn't do the small opening vesels as the boring bar is 1 1/2".
I agree on the Vicmarc, but I would also pursue the hollowing system if that's what you want to do.

my $.02

Thank you for the input, Scott. It's worth more than $.02 to me. I have selective amnesia as well. I call it sometimer's

 

[Adam Vila]

And if you do the bearings as preventative maintenance (a very good idea for any older machine, and not a very difficult task here), replace the belt at the same time. Bearings, if needing replacement and not just new grease, are standard fare at any bearing shop, belt as well.

Here is the part 1 video for bearing and belt service. Scroll down the list for part 2. And farther down the list for bearing seat removal and replacement. Lots of videos here, made in the Vicmarc factory.

Videos | Vicmarc

www.vicmarc.com

Thank you Steve. This video will be helpful if I go this route.

 

[Adam Vila]

I would offer up to $3000 for the Vicmarc, and $1500 for the Powermatic.

Loving these prices, Wyatt. Might ruffle some feathers where I live. I'll have to assess temperament beforehand.

 

[Adam Vila]

$1,500 is a common street price for a 2hp Jet 1642. The Powermatic should go for around $2,500 and the hollowing system for $1,000. No idea on the Vicmark.

Thank you, Richard. I'm starting to get a sense of where most people think prices should land. Helpful.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Check the floor weights on each lathe (crucial detail). The Vicmarks I've seen and worked on were lightweights in comparison.
I do like the Destaco clamp on the Powermatic to hold the stop in in place when changing tooling. Brilliantly simple idea.
Be sure that the Powermatic works well.
Look carefully at the tailstock differences in the photos. The Vicmark is one level down in rigidity if not more.

 

[Adam Vila]

The biggest difference between the two lathes, to me, is the PM has a sliding headstock and the Vic does not. Since I turn mostly bowls and do not like turning bowls on long bed lathes, I would prefer the PM. I have a Vicmark 240 with the pivoting headstock, and love it. One advantage the Vic has, is 3 speed pulleys. I consider that optimal. My Robust was one of the first, and it has the 3 speed pulleys. What that does is offer the option of very slow speeds for coring, though middle pulley works fine for that. Oh, on the PM, check the pressure plate on the bottom of the headstock. The first ones were cast iron, and mine snapped while coring some black locust. You want a steel plate!

robo hippy

Very helpful info. Thank you Robohippy

 

[Wyatt Holm]

You will be $6000 at least for a Vicmarc 300 shorted new. If you want to add a bed extension to make it a long bed another $1000. Just recently I saw Powermatic 3520 A listed for only $1200

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Also look at the bearing sizes and load ratings
The Powermatic uses a 6207 at the front and a 6206 in the rear.
The Vicmarc seems to use tapered roller bearings and that's a good thing. A bit of an annoyance to replace.

 

[Adam Vila]

Check the floor weights on each lathe (crucial detail). The Vicmarks I've seen and worked on were lightweights in comparison.
I do like the Destaco clamp on the Powermatic to hold the stop in in place when changing tooling. Brilliantly simple idea.
Be sure that the Powermatic works well.
Look carefully at the tailstock differences in the photos. The Vicmark is one level down in rigidity if not more.

I'm not sure I know what you mean, Bob. I haven't heard the phrase "floor weights". If you mean overall weight I believe the VL300 would be heavier as the bed is 48" and I believe the ways are 1" thick!

Yes, the destaco clamp is definitely clever. On my Jet 1642 I just drilled holes in the bracket and use a cotter pin. (see pic below)

Your comment about it being 1 level down contrasts with some of the earlier comments above. Not trying to spark a heated debate here, but what specifically are you referring to? I don't know much about either of these lathes but the general impression I've gotten so far is that they are superior build quality.

 

[Adam Vila]

You will be $6000 at least for a Vicmarc 300 shorted new. If you want to add a bed extension to make it a long bed another $1000. Just recently I saw Powermatic 3520 A listed for only $1200

Wow, $1200! Sounds like a reason to have a second lathe in the shop.

Yeah I realize new Vicmarcs are pretty spendy. Which is why I'm trying to get a better value in something used. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[Adam Vila]

Also look at the bearing sizes and load ratings
The Powermatic uses a 6207 at the front and a 6206 in the rear.
The Vicmarc seems to use tapered roller bearings and that's a good thing. A bit of an annoyance to replace.

Thanks Bob. I'll look into it.

I don't mind if I need to use a bearing press and/or puller to change out tapered bearings. Just learning about them, but frmo what I've read I gather they are more robust. Since I plan to turn large and heavy pieces that could be preferable.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Floor weight (net weight) is what the machine itself actually weighs rather than what is referred to as "shipping weight". There can be a big difference in lighter weight machines. Compare the tailstocks visually and you'll see that the Powermatic is heavier built.
You'll need a bearing press to remove/install bearings on either machine unless you're mechanically clever with what you've got.f
Roller bearings are superior in many ways to regular (Conrad) bearings, but not always. Many good lathes including Oneway use regular bearings.

I like the hole in the bracket and Cotter pin. Less obtrusive looking by far.

I think the Powermatic lathe for sale is a 3520-A
My Powermatic 3520 lists its weight as 650 lbs. That would also be about right for the 3520-A also.
The Vicmarc VL 300 specs also say 650 lbs. but that small tailstock and headstock give me pause.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

The Vicmarc headstock and tailstock might look small in the picture, they are not. The headstock casting is over an inch wall thickness. I have used both machines, the Vicmarc is far superior to me.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

In 2001, I went to the AAW symposium for one day to explore the trade show for the matter of large lathe research. Notebook and pen, tape measure, and caliper were at hand. In 2001, the biggies were Oneway, Stubby, Powermatic, Woodfast, and Vicmarc. (Did I miss anyone? Robust was not yet on the scene, I believe.) In short, Vicmarc had the thickest, beefiest castings of the lot, and the largest bearings (that I could confidently confirm), and so I bought a VL300 off the show floor. Vicmarc was (and still is) the brand of preference of Mike Mahoney, Richard Raffan, and other pros. Vicmarc and Woodfast were the lathes of choice at Craft Supplies' school. Vicmarc's tapered roller bearing are the same type of bearing used on motor vehicle wheels and handle the associated loads of the wood lathe at least as good as, if not superior to, cartridge ball bearings. Their banjo and tailstock clamps lock positively and with authority. And if the relationship between the Australian and American dollar ever improves, maybe we'll see more Vicmarc lathes here again someday.

Powermatic's cast iron legs may (maybe?) give more weight than the shown Vicmarc's steel tube stand, but not necessarily greater strength nor rigidity and stability. Want more mass in any lathe? Sand bags.

And I know I'll catch flack for this, but country of origin is meaningful to me in a great many of the products I buy, and given the chance, I don't want to send my money to Powermatic's country of origin. It's not that I feel the product is somehow inferior (it may, or may not be), it's everything else that surrounds it that I have issues with. But, these are my opinions, with or without merit. It was a sad day when Powermatic (and Delta, and Canada's General) decided to sell it all off because they could no longer compete with their ripped-off clone counterpart machines being made in China and sold at significant discounts. Discounts which are probably not as applicable today.

For all the postings at this board that talk about failed widgets and gidgets on their machinery built in China (some of those parts being quite substantial), I don't see similar posts for machines built in Australia, Canada, and the USA. I'd buy the used Vicmarc VL300, and I back that up with 20+ years of flawless experience with 3 different machines of theirs.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

Thanks Steve,
I own a 2007 Vl300, still works as well as the day I bought it. I used it side by side with a friend's Powermatic 4224. The Powermatic may have heavier legs, but it was prone to a lot more vibration than the Vicmarc. And of course because the Vicmarc is mine, and I am used to it I prefer it. I still refer to a Vl300 as a Mike Mahoney lathe.

 

[Bill Boehme]

My opinion is photographs can make or break a deal. The Vicmarc looks like a well cared for clean lathe in a clean shop. I see just the opposite in the picture of the Powermatic. I agree with those who believe that the Vicmarc is a better lathe than the Powermatic. The Powermatic is a good lathe, but it isn’t top tier. If you want to turn deep hollow forms or coring (especially if using the McNaughton BowlSaver) then I believe the Vicmarc is the better choice.

Given that the Powermatic is over twenty years old and not clean, the absolute maximum I would consider paying is $1K which is about half the original price. Get the Vicmarc if you can negotiate a mutually acceptable price.

 

[Larry Mercier]

I saw a post where someone was selling for $4200, so that's not too far off.

Hi Adam, I got my asking price and had several other potential buyers. It also sold fast.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Most responses seem to indicate an assumption that the lathes for sale are ready to run. I think that's not the case.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Good observations, @Bob Vaughan, on the possible issues of the two lathes for sale. At first glance I wanted to chalk up the Vicmac tailstock handwheel as a wide angle photo distortion issue, but instead it looks like there could be an issue there needing hands-on investigation. (If the tailstock casting is unharmed, parts from Vicmarc are available and should be discounted off the price of the lathe.) And I bet those casters on the Vic were owner installed for their convenience. I'd remove any casters that were load-bearing the machine in daily use, they won't provide stability no matter how beefy they could be. The PM cord, I agree, but I'd still play dumb/remain silent about that issue until I got my hands on the cord. If my hands and eyes confirm a cut cord (and not just some piece of junk laying across the top of the motor), I'd turn heel and walk out the door with no further discussion.
---------
I've not seen any of Glenn Lucas' videos before today, but it seems he's an avid user of Vicmarc lathes. It appears that he uses the VL300 and VL240. Here's a screen shot (below) of an outside roughed blank on a VL300, captured from this video at 1:07.

View: https://youtu.be/o-Ec2YdB1iY?si=0X4PM0ANOeGYEaHX

He's plugging his signature tools in this video, but there are plenty of shots of the lathes in use, and plenty of other videos as well. Thousands of large turnings come out of his shop, a testiment to the machines he counts on. Even if the Vicmarcs were given to him for free, he would not use them if they didn't provide solid, dependable performance to earn his living upon. New or used, Vicmarc (or Oneway or Robust) over Powermatic for me.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Looks like changing belt positions may be a petty annoyance on the Vicmarc since access isn't up front like the Powermatic's.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

Changing belts may be a minor annoyance on a Vicmarc. Still much preferred to the Powermatic, the tailstock lock lever in a Powermatic pinches my hand against the hand wheel if not careful. The headstock is way too big and clumsy. I don't like the motor and vfd out in the ooen where they are prone to get full of dust and fail. I will still say a Vicmarc is worth ar least twice what a Powermatic is.

 

[robo hippy]

Best headstock design, to me, is the Vicmark. It actually tapers in slightly from the bed. This is what makes it so rigid when turning. I am not a fan of all the modern lathes that have bell housings to make removing the headstock spindle, or the "extended" head stocks for "easier access to the bottom of the bowl". What those do is extend your mounting point farther out off the headstock tower, which will induce some vibration issues. With the 3520A, the headstock spindle is flush to the headstock and does not protrude at all.

robo hippy

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Looks like changing belt positions may be a petty annoyance on the Vicmarc since access isn't up front like the Powermatic's.

Nah, piece o' cake to change the belt. I roll it to a smaller pulley to slacken, move to where I want it, and roll the other end onto the new pulley position. 10-20 seconds at most. I don't even loosen the motor mount. My VL200 has a 6 position pulley. 98% of the time it is in the 0-1800'ish range (DC Leeson, 1.5hp 240v). My former 2001 VL300 had a 4-step pulley, stayed in the same range unless I was moving serious rough weight.