What are your biggest costs?

[Isaac Litster]

As I don't have to pay it directly out of my own pocket I don't think of it as a cost, but gallery commission would also be the largest $ component of getting a piece of wood through to a sale in the gallery. The galleries take close to half of the retail price, however, I don't begrudge them any of that. They earn every bit of their cut and selling directly to customers is the last thing I would want to be doing myself. Without the galleries I couldn't continue to turn, which is what I like to be doing.

I do spend some of my surplus income from my turning buying bowl gouges that I don't really need, but find interesting, however, that is not a necessary cost to keep me turning; it's just a peripheral indulgence to keep me amused...

Our town was settled by Norwegian fishermen, and we still celebrate Norwegian independence day (mostly for tourism). Part of the parade is vendors downtown, which are locals ranging from small children selling candy to retired people selling knitting. Last year my dad and I sold our turnings on two stacked totes. We sold to tourists for cheap prices on the sidewalk. The largest purchase was a large yellow cedar bowl for $85 US. A couple of weeks ago, we flew to a larger town in Alaska so my dad could get a medical appointment. In the larger town, with much more tourism, and people, a gallery sold a yellow cedar bowl for the same price, but the bowl was less than half the diameter. Yellow cedar has virtually no variation between trees, the wood was identical, and the designs of both were pretty bad, but at the end of the day, I was selling on the sidewalk, and the other turner was selling in a gallery. His bowl took less than 10% of the wood my bowl blank was.

I think I need to make work that appeals to a higher-paying clientele before I try to sell to them. Maybe eventually.

 

[hockenbery]

understand that a lot can change in four years.

Indeed it can.
I thought I wanted a pharmacy major. Then I discovered I was making A’s math classes without much effort and I liked math.
Then declared as a math major the lazy me - no studying just learn it in class.
Got a change of direction in my sophomore year when my probability of getting drafted went from 0 to 1. Student deferments ended and I got number 60 in something called the draft lottery.
So ROTC to finish college annd Active duty with the army after graduation. The Army decided not to send me Vietnam and assigned to Fort Meade where I worked as a mathematician.

 

[Gary W Miller]

A good enumeration of the many reasons I try avoid having woodturning become a business. I do teach and demo, but those don't have all of those ancillary costs. My big equipment buying is (hopefully) over. I turn for pleasure and to explore ideas. I don't want it to become stressful. Materials and supplies are relatively minor expenses.

If I didn't know better, it could have been written by me. I'll just say "me too"

 

[BobCoates]

Many of us have mentioned sandpaper as a major expense once our tools and equipment have been purchased. A good way to save costs is to buy in bulk: buy rolls or sheets and then punch out 2" discs using an arch punch. (They're a bit hard to find that large; I probably got mine on Amazon.) Instead of $1/ea for Abranet discs I can get the cost down to about 20 cents.

Karl I made a punch from a tail pipe adapter. Put in lathe and made one end sharp, works well.

 

[Odie]

Those who embellish can turn any ol' piece of wood into something spectacular, but that's not what I do.

I want only the nicest highly figured woods for my bowls, and I rely on my turning ability to transform them into something better than it would have been if it were just a simply shaped bowl. The woods I choose are quite often more difficult to turn than your average turning blank, and to this day, I still have way too many disappointments.....but the successes are well worth it to me. With time and experience, I'm evolving into a turner who has less failures than I did 43 years ago, when I first started turning bowls.

I rely on some of the best sources of turning woods. These dealers know the very best wood commands a higher price, and I usually end up paying premium prices for my source wood. I have paid more than $400 for a single piece of wood, and I'm not guaranteed the results will justify the expense. Sometimes it's a total loss.

Therefore, wood is my biggest expense.

=o=

 

[Isaac Litster]

Those who embellish can turn any ol' piece of wood into something spectacular, but that's not what I do.

I want only the nicest highly figured woods for my bowls, and I rely on my turning ability to transform them into something better than it would have been if it were just a simply shaped bowl. The woods I choose are quite often more difficult to turn than your average turning blank, and to this day, I still have way too many disappointments.....but the successes are well worth it to me. With time and experience, I'm evolving into a turner who has less failures than I did 43 years ago, when I first started turning bowls.

I rely on some of the best sources of turning woods. These dealers know the very best wood commands a higher price, and I usually end up paying premium prices for my source wood. I have paid more than $400 for a single piece of wood, and I'm not guaranteed the results will justify the expense. Sometimes it's a total loss.

Therefore, wood is my biggest expense.

=o=

Do you turn bowls exclusively? I see the quality of your finished pieces, but what is the scale of your production? Are $400 pieces of wood a daily purchase, weekly, or less? If I embellished a piece of wood I got for free and spent 100 hours doing so, I could potentially sell it for a significant amount, and the wood is free. The cost then would be my time. If you spend most of the money on wood, do you spend less time? The quality is impeccable, however, it is all done on the lathe. How much time would it take to finish a bowl?
If I want to make money turning, whether it is a little bit to sustain the hobby, or eventually as a significant income, I should think about what I want to make. I recall a woodturning magazine I got secondhand, and an article from Raffan. He was making a point about considering turners who, in a year, turn thousands of bowls and sell them for $100, and turners who turn 3 pieces and sell them for $50,000 both being considered production turners. What I thought was interesting is the spectrum of quality or quantity. Where do I want to invest that will bring enjoyment, but also not be a waste of time?

 

[Tim Hunter]

I rely on some of the best sources of turning woods. These dealers know the very best wood commands a higher price, and I usually end up paying premium prices for my source wood. I have paid more than $400 for a single piece of wood…

Therefore, wood is my biggest expense.

=o=

…and it shows! I sometimes wish I had your rolodex of wood sources.

Tim

 

[Neil S]

Our town was settled by Norwegian fishermen, and we still celebrate Norwegian independence day (mostly for tourism). Part of the parade is vendors downtown, which are locals ranging from small children selling candy to retired people selling knitting. Last year my dad and I sold our turnings on two stacked totes. We sold to tourists for cheap prices on the sidewalk. The largest purchase was a large yellow cedar bowl for $85 US. A couple of weeks ago, we flew to a larger town in Alaska so my dad could get a medical appointment. In the larger town, with much more tourism, and people, a gallery sold a yellow cedar bowl for the same price, but the bowl was less than half the diameter. Yellow cedar has virtually no variation between trees, the wood was identical, and the designs of both were pretty bad, but at the end of the day, I was selling on the sidewalk, and the other turner was selling in a gallery. His bowl took less than 10% of the wood my bowl blank was.

I think I need to make work that appeals to a higher-paying clientele before I try to sell to them. Maybe eventually.

View attachment 73747

My advice after turning thousands of pieces and selling through galleries is to not try and make what you think might appeal to gallery clients, but to make what appeals to yourself and then make a bit more of whatever is selling best, which is not a chore as you already like to make those.

But, don't discount the value of your tourist sales. Your financial returns may not be as high per piece, but they allow you to practice your skills. Richard Raffan honed his turning skills by turning countless numbers of small condiment scoops that he sold through the small tourist shops in Devon where he began turning. I would think those and your miniatures would go well with the tourist trade. When you can do a dozen of those scoops an hour your skills will have become very good.

Those scoops can be turned from small branches from whatever trees you have in your local area. Identifying it as a local wood goes down well with tourists. The more varieties with interesting names, like Sitka mountain ash, the better!

Very small lidded boxes would also sell well, but are more time consuming and not quite as profitable for the tourist trade. Start with some quickies without much detail...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbvUn0wqHgE

And when you have done enough of those you can then move onto more detailed ones with your preferred design for the galleries...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmuwQWj6uo

Isaac, just in case you think I'm being totally unrealistic about how quickly you can turn out small lidded boxes, I have watched the turner Benoît Averly, who spent some time with RR earlier on learning how to do production turning, and I have seen him turn out his smallest pill boxes (the smallest acorn shaped one at the front in the following photo) at the rate of just over one a minute, one after the other, off the one long spindle blank...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/70087337938843067/

View: https://au.pinterest.com/pin/70087337938843067/

I remember Petersburg from when I was coming down from Juneau on the Alaskan Marine Highway ferry (not on a cruise ship, thankyou). It reminded me a lot of some of the small ports along the Norwegian fjord coastline with its shoreline buildings sitting up on stilts and some with the same colour scheme that you see all over Scandinavia. What I great place to live!

 

[Odie]

Do you turn bowls exclusively? I see the quality of your finished pieces, but what is the scale of your production? Are $400 pieces of wood a daily purchase, weekly, or less? If I embellished a piece of wood I got for free and spent 100 hours doing so, I could potentially sell it for a significant amount, and the wood is free. The cost then would be my time. If you spend most of the money on wood, do you spend less time? The quality is impeccable, however, it is all done on the lathe. How much time would it take to finish a bowl?
If I want to make money turning, whether it is a little bit to sustain the hobby, or eventually as a significant income, I should think about what I want to make. I recall a woodturning magazine I got secondhand, and an article from Raffan. He was making a point about considering turners who, in a year, turn thousands of bowls and sell them for $100, and turners who turn 3 pieces and sell them for $50,000 both being considered production turners. What I thought was interesting is the spectrum of quality or quantity. Where do I want to invest that will bring enjoyment, but also not be a waste of time?

I'd like to take some time to think about my answer here Isaac.....

I'll get back to this later.

I'm just coming in from the shop right now, and I need to sleep for a very busy day tomorrow.

Take care...

=o=

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Those scoops can be turned from small branches from whatever trees you have in your local area. Identifying it as a local wood goes down well with tourists.

I have a similar experience regarding local wood. I use exclusively wood from my neighborhood. I’ve gone to the point of having a map on the wall with pins labeled with each tree I collect wood from. Most of my local customers love knowing where the tree that produced their bowl or hollow form lived. But full disclosure: I don’t work too hard to sell, and don’t rely on the income. I give away as many bowls as I sell. Mostly I sell to create room for more bowls.

 

[robo hippy]

I do own one of Odie's bowls a black and white ebony one that he did post some pictures of here on the forum a while back. You have to see them in person. Pictures do not do them justice!

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

Do you turn bowls exclusively? I see the quality of your finished pieces, but what is the scale of your production? Are $400 pieces of wood a daily purchase, weekly, or less? If I embellished a piece of wood I got for free and spent 100 hours doing so, I could potentially sell it for a significant amount, and the wood is free. The cost then would be my time. If you spend most of the money on wood, do you spend less time? The quality is impeccable, however, it is all done on the lathe. How much time would it take to finish a bowl?
If I want to make money turning, whether it is a little bit to sustain the hobby, or eventually as a significant income, I should think about what I want to make. I recall a woodturning magazine I got secondhand, and an article from Raffan. He was making a point about considering turners who, in a year, turn thousands of bowls and sell them for $100, and turners who turn 3 pieces and sell them for $50,000 both being considered production turners. What I thought was interesting is the spectrum of quality or quantity. Where do I want to invest that will bring enjoyment, but also not be a waste of time?

Isaac...... Right from the beginning, I wanted to sell my work. Now, I although I still do want to sell my work, I've given up on the thought of ever making a living doing this. If you check around, you'll see a great number of very good turners who can't honestly say they make a living at it.....even if it was a part of their dreams in life. Most move on to teaching, or making a name for themselves before they sell their specialty tools.

There is one well known turner from Ireland who has spent a lot of money, time and effort building a production bowl business. I've always thought what he was doing would be terribly boring......but, I think he does (did) make a living. His bowls are very basic, intentionally designed to be made fast and appealing at a moderate price At what cost this is to his soul is up to speculation. He is now selling his specialty tools.

I imagine there are a few turners who make cheap items and sell a lot, but I don't think they are very happy doing this either. There just can't be much self-satisfaction in this.

Someone else in this thread said to find something that you like, and do that......forget about trying to make what you think will be great sellers, but tend to what will satisfy your inner self. I subscribe to that philosophy.....and, it's what I do. Still, I want to make sales, but I do it on my terms. I'm not doing this from a capitalist mindset, but in my own way, I'm seeking an artistic outlet, while I try to be self-sustaining. There is a certain amount of juggling between the two goals.

Now, to answer your question...

No, $400 bowl blocks are very rare, but I purchase a few in the $150-250 price range. The great majority of my wood is in the $50-150 price range.

I was 32 years old when I began making bowls......this was after I tried my hand at production turning of wooden toys. Wooden toys were all the rage back in the late 1970's.....and, you now seldom see them.

I see a lot of myself in the thoughts you are expressing, and the questions you are asking......and, it's important to reach for your dreams. If you don't do at least that, your spirit will suffer.

=o=

 

[Brian Gustin]

I imagine there are a few turners who make cheap items and sell a lot, but I don't think they are very happy doing this either. There just can't be much self-satisfaction in this.

Yup. definitely ain't much satisfaction A.K.A. Enjoyment in it.

Only reason I continue to try and build up an inventory of "smalls" is to try and justify the time/cost of booths at local farmer's markets (Which when you get down to it is 95% of the total socializing I do in any given year) Isn't any profit to it either...

However when I do the things *for me* they are usually complex, complicated, and at a price point that typically doesn't sell at farmer markets (but sometimes sells at artisan center)

So if it was not for the just wanting to get out of the house once a month and meet up with a small like-minded group of local vendors/farmers/artisans I probably would not bother with those simple "price point" items (Spin Tops, birdhouse ornaments, lantern ornaments, honey dippers, small boxes, etc.) even though I do sell quite a few of them, and it helps pay for the booth fees, plus maybe some sandpaper/ finish/ tooling.

The stuff I DO enjoy and most often put a lot of time and work into them, Often end up being promised to someone who saw the work in progress, others will go to the local Artisan Center gallery. I cannot be bothered with online selling any more... (Former Ebay platinum power seller that shipped 100-plus packages a day every day for several years, so obviously got sick of it)
Is also usually why I don't put a lot of effort into photographing my work either - I don't especially enjoy that part either!

 

[John K Jordan]

Social sciences. … however, I understand that a lot can change in four years.

Isaac, I think the most important thing about the direction of studies in college is that you love the field. I know too many who started and stuck with a field for one reason or another and were unhappy in the long run. The first few years are great for exploring - don’t be afraid to change!

... Then I discovered I was making A’s math classes without much effort and I liked math.
Then declared as a math major the lazy me - no studying just learn it in class.
Got a change of direction in my sophomore year when my probability of getting drafted went from 0 to 1. Student deferments ended and I got number 60 in something called the draft lottery.

I too loved math, started with a dual major: psychology because it was so easy and math since it was fun AND useful, especially calculus and linear algebra. The math (and physics) led me towards electronics, computers, and software development, self-taught, turned into a career. I shake my head when people tell kids the only reason to learn math is to get through school, you’ll never use it again. Ha!

Was that draft lottery in ‘69? I was in college at the time and we all watched the number draw on the dorm TV. I pulled #325. I had a friend with a low number who went to ‘Nam and didn’t come back. I put his picture in the college yearbook. Some sad times.

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

Was that draft lottery in ‘69?

The first one. I got #60 and the draft board expected to draft up to 120.

 

[robo hippy]

Well Al, my lucky lottery number was #9..... I ended up getting a 4F due to asthma. The war ended a year or so later.

As for making a business out of it, I always referred to myself as a "semi-pro" which means I made enough money to support my habit, but not enough to make a living at it. I was a terrible business man, but a good turner. I did have a lot of fun. Those that do make a living at it do a lot of paid demonstrations, generally have a "signature" line of tools, videos, and sell to galleries. That would be more work than I wanted to put into it. For sure, finding some to do that does pay and that you love doing, that is most important. I was in construction because I didn't want to do metal fabrication at the family business, but knew I would end up working with my hands. Now that I am retired, I still have one show I do, and hope to continue for many years.

robo hippy

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Indeed it can.
I thought I wanted a pharmacy major. Then I discovered I was making A’s math classes without much effort and I liked math.
Then declared as a math major the lazy me - no studying just learn it in class.
Got a change of direction in my sophomore year when my probability of getting drafted went from 0 to 1. Student deferments ended and I got number 60 in something called the draft lottery.
So ROTC to finish college annd Active duty with the army after graduation. The Army decided not to send me Vietnam and assigned to Fort Meade where I worked as a mathematician.

Funny Al your history sounds a lot like mine except I did stay with Pharmacy. Did not care much for higher math and english

 

[Walter Mooney]

My dad and I sold at a local holiday bazaar and were able to purchase the Laguna 14bx, which arrived in January. Since then, we have gone through three blades and are waiting for the two weeks before Amazon ships the next couple. I think when I figure out what I can and can't do with it, without breaking blades, I can sharpen them and won't have to buy so many.

for smaller pieces, it is very difficult to sand, so I don't, or use very fine grit. I previously started at 320, but I just turned some extremely soft wood, so I used 80 grit for the first time.

Because the town is so small, everyone knows everyone. I can think of half a dozen people who would likely pitch in for a big drum of Anchorseal.

Isaac, plain old white Elmers glue is a great sealer, and cheaper, at least here in TX, than AnchorSeal. I think it was Mike Mahoney who told our club in an IRD several years ago that he was using it. Dilute it with a little water (very little). I’ve been using it for a while and have had great results. Of course, when I rough-turn a bowl and seal it with EG and pack it in a brown paper bag with shavings, when I take it out to finish turn it, there are shavings stuck to it! But they readily turn off!

 

[robo hippy]

I took my old chainsaw in for a tune up, and it looks like I need a new one. Cost for repair is over $400.... I may have to buy a Sthil this time. Old one was a Husky..... I do have logs coming in a week or two...

robo hippy

 

[Jim Byrne]

Wood

 

[Steve Nix]

New Sewing Machine