Turning without air?

[KEW]

The comments on the inefficiencies of powering a sander with air (see my thread on the Grex sander) have me wondering.
Right now, I only have a portable pancake compressor I use for my nailers. I have not been using it as a source for shop air.
I know most of you have air.
What do you use it for (sanding? clearing chips from hollow forms?)?
Are there decent ways around these (electric sanders? small wand for DC?)
How big of an air compressor (CFM) would you recommend.

I'm just hoping for an array of responses to help mature my perspective before I make a decision on whether or not to buy a shop compressor.

Thanks!

 

[robo hippy]

I have one of the Campbell Hausfeld 60 gallon 5 hp compressors. I used a pneumatic Sioux angle drill. It would keep the compressor running full time when sanding. I figured the electric drills were a lot cheaper to run.
robo hippy

 

[David Somers]

Aside from running a nail gun, I only use my pancake compressor to blow chips out of hollow forms. It works great for that. It is just not big enough for most other chores, and very inefficient besides. I will use it for an air hammer on occasion, and for impact wrenches. I don't need that often though.

For sanding I use a handheld non powered inetial sander for most things. Sorby, Vicmark, and The Sanding Glove all make some nice ones. They work great for most things. For the remaining things I will hand hold paper or use a powered sander.

Hope that helps!

Dave

 

[waltben]

I've been using an oil-less 30 gal. noisemaker for five years (hoping it'll die and I can get a belt driven one that will be quiet!), to blow chips and sanding dust. I've two Milwaukee angle drills that I use for sanding as I could never find an air driven one with the same 45 or so degree angle. I tried a 90 degree electric drill years back, but never liked it and am certain a 90 degree air one would be the same. I also use the compressor to work on our vehicles and other odd jobs, but that's it.

 

[john lucas]

I do 90 percent of my turning without air. I don't have a big enough air compressor to run a sander. I use a standard Dewalt 3/8" drill for that.
I have a 3 hp 26 gallon cheapy. I use it mostly for spraying lacquer, air brushing, cleaning out hollow turnings, and I have an impact wrench that I use for putting screws in the faceplates and a small brad nailer. It has to recycle a lot so I try to keep all of those activities to a minimum.

 

[Captain Eddie]

airless mothods

I use two air powered sanders for turning, without air. i have both a straight and angled die grinders (from Harbor Freight) and I use them as inertia sanders for all sorts of work. The older they are, the better. I just removed the vanes from an angled die grinder to make it spin better.
To power sand I use a 0-1500 rpm angle sander from Harbor Freight to sand with. At $19.00, they beat the Souix and others.
I found out the hard way, that air powered sanders run at very high speeds and will throw off the pads and the cushions. Hit the trigger, change the pad or the holder.
The electric is cheap, buy the warranty, use it only for sanding and be happy.

 

[GeorgeH]

I have an old (about 25 years old) 1 1/2 HP Sears air compressor that's about 12 gal capacity with about 5 SCFM recovery @ 90PSI (7 SCFM @ 40) and I use it to power all the pneumatic tools in my shop. I have been using it to power my pneumatic angle drill/sander for use with the lathe and, while it does a great job, I have grown to despise the noise. I can handle the noise with ear protection but I think my neighbors would prefer not to have the experience. So I'm looking toward purchasing a good electric angle drill/sander to meet this need.

 

[Mjonesrdg]

Air

My air hose with blow valve hangs right next to the lathe and I reach for it constantly. The workpiece, chucks, spindles, allen-head screws, and myself get periodic hosing off. The band saw needs compressed air to clean too, and I spray more and more finishes.

I have an air driven DA sander that lives in a drawer...comes out only on occasion... it is very effective at what it's effective at, but I wouldn't replace it if it went belly-up on me.

I, too, would opt for bigger when my current compressor dies. Probably just a guy thing. Generally, short bursts of comp. air for blowing things off is what is needed most, and the pancake will do that. Continuous use air tools, like a DA sander, need more air than the pancake can deliver.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

I was looking at ultra quiet air compressors. These things deliver a respectable quantity of air with virtually no noise. You can talk on the phone and the person you are talking to won't know the comrpessor is running.

Sounded really great until I saw the price

Well over a thousand dollars for the smallest unit. Maybe some day I'll win the lotto or something.

Ed

 

[dbonertz]

I use an old 2hp 20 gallon oiless. It is used to blow out hollows. blow out pieces between sanding grits and to spray myself and tools off after use. The noise was a problem until I put the compressor in the garage attic and ran a line to the shop (3rd car garage sheetrocked and insulated) and a extension cord so I could plug it in when I go into the shop. I find it a must have and very usefull.

Dale

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'd get one with enough capacity to spray finishes. Choose your gun and exceed your capacity by a bit in the compresser. Take bigger tanks over bigger HP ratings, which are generally pretty inflated anyway.

I like to use compressed air to eject unbound water from roughs to help speed their way to the sub-mildew moisture content, and there the reserve capacity is nice to have. It's also pretty handy for pushing the water out so you can sand thin warp-and-go stuff as well. Keeps your paper from clogging so badly.

BTW, if you find the crepe rubber inconvenient in cleaning small slow disks, as I do, drag your grit over a file card or a brass-bristle flux brush or vice-versa. Cleans with minimal grit loss.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hi Kurt,

I have two compressors; 1 mobile, the other stationary. My mobile is a "2"hp Thomas oil-free that I use as a construction compressor when I go to work on friends' houses (my own as well). With 5 CFM @ 100psi it will run two full size framing nailers yet still work on a 15amp 110 circuit.

The stationary unit is a real 3hp, 220v oil-lubed Ingersoll-Rand SS3L3 on 60gal tank pushing 12 CFM at 90psi [about 14 CFM at 40 psi] which is set up in my garage and then piped to air stations in the garage and my basement shop. This unit is always pressurized, and each outlet runs from a separate regulator/filter set up. I bought it to do spray finishing (rather than the turbine HVLP I was using), and had hoped (until I learned better) to add some air tools in the shop. The only thing I use air for in turning is blowing chips out of hollow vessels, texturing with a scaler, and running a ultra-high speed carver for detail work. I also use the big one for working on the cars and such outside [15 minute tire rotations are nice]. One thing you should add to any compressor you plan to keep pressurized is an automatic condensate drain. At $60, it automatically drains all the water out of your storage tank and so largely prevents rust inside the air receiver. Beats the snot out of going out to open the manual drain every couple of days!!

There are, of course, way bigger compressors. The 2-stage units, 5 hp and over will give you air that's a bit cleaner because of less oil carryover from the 2nd stage, and can be a bit quieter by running at slower speeds. I could say it'd be "nice" to have one of those Bad Boys [20 CFM Quincy comes to mind], but I just don't have any real need for one.

Shopping by "horsepower" is the path to getting ripped off. Most of these outfits misstate the hp rating on their motors and sell the things on that rating. HP is largely meaningless here; what you look for is CFM or SCFM [Cubic Feet per Minute or Standard Cubic Feet per Minute] ratings which tells you the amount of air the pump will move. The more air, the more work can be done. The pressure rating tells you how much air can be stored in the tank, not how much the air will do for you, and how fast it will move. Opt for a larger storage tank if you can; 60gal. is good for most home/small shop use. That volume smooths out the pressure pulses put into the system by the compressor pump itself, and also provides a descent way to condense water out of the stored air (Boyle's Law) [Remember the Drain!]

Hope this helps.

 

[Burt Alcantara]

I use a shop vac to suck out debris from turnings. When the shop gets very funky I connect a 6" flex hose to the DC and suck it all up. I keep considering buying a compressor but the thought of blowing more dust into the air makes me put this tool on hold.

I hand sand with the lathe turned on. Gets the fingers warm but it's OK. I'd rather put the money towards a vacuum system.

Burt

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hold That Thought!!!

I keep considering buying a compressor but the thought of blowing more dust into the air makes me put this tool on hold.

Burt,

And don't let anyone talk you out of it. Why anyone who knows the dangers of breathing wood dust would use compressed air to "clean" anything is beyond my understanding, and may qualify for the Darwin Awards. I use air to blow chips out of a hollowform, however my DC hose is up tight to the opening so my use of the air is actually blowing the chips right into the DC hose. I use a thin tube glow gun and the DC hose (with the DC running, of course) is as tight to the opening as I can make it.

I've heard of people blowing dust and chips off their lathe, and I have to ask, "So then what do you do about all the dust blown all over everywhere?" The usual reply is "I just sweep it up." These people simply don't realize that the dangerous stuff is what doesn't fall on the floor.

 

[57_T-Bird]

Air tools

In addition to those mentioned, I use:
Pneumatic screwdriver
Portable air drill ( for sanding too )
Die Grinder ( similar to Dremel )
90-degree Die grinder (w/o air as enertia sander, with air and 24-grit sander for texturing )
3" wheel cut off tool ( for cutting metal rod to make tools )
Sandblaster for cleaning metal and texturing wood.
And for Awata air brush

Very pleased when my old 12 gal. tank air compressor quit and I bought a 5hp with 60 gal. tank. My Grex doesn't run out of air. The only thing that taxes the compressor now is the sandblasters.
The pic is a small sandblasted piece.

T-Bird

 

[KEW]

Thanks!

This is great!

I hate using "trial and error" when it comes to buying equipment and I think I'm getting a pretty good sense of what applications and how much compressor I need from these comments.

I wonder what Dick Sing has for an air compressor. In his books he uses a drinking straw and his lungs to blow chips away from the drill press (when he is drilling pens), and when he strats his hollowed globes (for ornaments) he drills all of the way through (he puts finials on both the top and the bottom) and uses a vacuum cleaner to suck the chips out since there is a route for air to come in at the headstock.

I have used a shop vac with a floor switch to get the chips out with a 1-1/4" wand, and found it was a pretty decent system, but it limits the minimum size of the orifice. When I have had too small of an opening and cannot drill all of the way through, I either attempt to "scoop" out chips with one finger or unscrew the chuck and dump out the HF. Neither of these is a very good solution.
So right now, I see the need for compressed air for clearing out some HF's. Based on the comments here that does not seem to take too much air.

Also, I don't see a good alternative to using compressed air for some small cleaning duties - such as sending a puff of air to clear the morse tapers before inserting a center and clearing the dust from chucks and jaws isn't real handy.
Blowing out green wood sure seems handy as well.
It seems that a modest compressor system could handle these tasks.
Does anyone have any clever tricks for dealing with these tasks?
It almost seems like a souped up hair dryer with a reducing nozzle (and without the heat) could do the trick.
Or maybe I should just get a larger tank to charge with my little pancake unit.

I'm pretty ignorant on spray finishing, but I have the impression that it wouldn't make sense unless I had a decent volume of stuff to spray.
If that is true, I don't expect that to happen until we reach empty nest status or retirement. Those are both far enough away that I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
The same goes for sandblasting and powercarving - I don't see them in my future.

Please keep the comments coming!

 

[KEW]

One thing you should add to any compressor you plan to keep pressurized is an automatic condensate drain. At $60, it automatically drains all the water out of your storage tank and so largely prevents rust inside the air receiver. Beats the snot out of going out to open the manual drain every couple of days!!

That strikes a chord with me!
$60 is nothing if I don't have to wonder 10 years from now what type of condition the tank is in and if it might be ready to go ballistic.

Where would a body get such a thing?

 

[dbonertz]

If your wearing the proper respirator and running your dust collector and air filtration system then there is nothing wrong with spraiying the dust off of yourself, equipment and tools. It is better than letting the dust build up on/in them. The key is using good sense about what you are doing. I go so far as to run my filtration system for at least one hour past the time I am done in the shop. It comes in handy to have the timer on it. You always read the best way to remove the previous grit from your piece is to use compressed air.

 

[John Nicholas]

Compressed Air

I will, in good weather, used the compressor to blow the dust out of the shop. I do open both garage doors and the lathe is right in front of one. I have also used my leaf blower, when the floor gets bad.

Otherwise the primary task is to blow dust off me, before I track it into the domain of SWMBO. Occasionally a cutoff wheel, or air wrench.

For Christmas the LOML purchased a venturi type vac generator. That will be trying that out later this spring. Make a chuck first.

I keep straws handy. Coffee stirrer type for small dabs of CA and also for the close in chip removal. I use an inertia disc sander for the power stuff. I have a small air powered unit, but the extended noise is more than I care for.

John

 

[Mark Mandell]

That strikes a chord with me!
$60 is nothing if I don't have to wonder 10 years from now what type of condition the tank is in and if it might be ready to go ballistic.

Where would a body get such a thing?

McMaster-Car (.com)

Part Number is 4919K13

Current price is $49 plus shipping. It automatically opens for 2 sec. with a drop of 10psi in air pressure. Mine's been installed for 4+ years without a hitch.



mm

 

[Mark Mandell]

If your wearing the proper respirator and running your dust collector and air filtration system then there is nothing wrong with spraiying the dust off of yourself, equipment and tools. It is better than letting the dust build up on/in them. The key is using good sense about what you are doing. I go so far as to run my filtration system for at least one hour past the time I am done in the shop. It comes in handy to have the timer on it. You always read the best way to remove the previous grit from your piece is to use compressed air.

I use the DC vac hose that I set up for a floor sweep. Can't see a good reason to load up the atmosphere of the shop with dust. I have a JDS 750 running while in the shop and for 2 hours after I leave, but I vacuum the lathe, floor, tools and me often to keep the fines under control.

I think you're asking a lot of your air cleaner. Consider vacuming the dust into something that doesn't return dust to your shop air. My DC has a 1 micron bag and is located in the garage; what goes up that pipe does NOT come back

mm

 

[dbonertz]

Mark,

I also use a wet/dry vac for the floor, benches and where ever I can. However I feel the need to get the dust off of my tools and racks that builds up over time. The best way to do so is to blow it off (where the vac can't get to). I also doubt that most turners use a wet/dry right after every use of the lathe. So to blow off the lathe/tools before you leave the shop, in my opinion, is a good practice to get into (especially if turning wet wood). Just my opinion.

Dale

 

[Mark Mandell]

So to blow off the lathe/tools before you leave the shop, in my opinion, is a good practice to get into (especially if turning wet wood). Just my opinion.

Dale

Dale, I strongly agree with your basic premise to keep things clean, we just disagree on how to go about it. I use my shop vac with a CleanStream filter installed when I'm sanding flatwork. You can get/make a longer 2-1/2" hose for your vacuum. Takes a little cobbeling to get the fittings to work, but I have a 12' hose on my vac that lets me reach most every part of the shop to pull off the dust.

mm

 

[Dave Roller]

I'm building a new garage with a 16x28 woodturning shop attached. The rear of the building will have an 8' overhang under which I'll put my air compressor. I find the noise from it to be the most obnoxious noise in my shop, and I can't wait until the source is as far away from me as possible.

I use mine mostly for painting, finishing, and keeping tire air pressure at recommended levels in my cars, truck, tractor, trailer, and yard equipment. And, for cleaning out the nooks and crannies of woodworking machinery it is indispensible.

Most wood, especially open-grained woods e.g. walnut, oak, elm, benefits from a blast of air after the final sanding and before finishing begins.

 

[Curt Fuller]

For power sanding I use a cheap Harbor Freight right angle drill and a few sizes of discs and extensions. They're so cheap that you can afford to burn a few out. However, I'm still using the same one I bought a few years ago. I just looked at their website and they're on sale right now.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92956

 

[Owen Lowe]

For power sanding I use a cheap Harbor Freight right angle drill and a few sizes of discs and extensions. They're so cheap that you can afford to burn a few out. However, I'm still using the same one I bought a few years ago. I just looked at their website and they're on sale right now.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92956

One of the observations I made years ago on rec.crafts.woodturning was:

At $20 per drill, you could buy 7 of them for the price of one Sioux or Milwaukee and dedicate each to a specific sanding grit. If you went this route, the Harbor Freights would each get about 1/7th the running time of a single Sioux and likely have a very long life.

 

[odie]

After having used a 2hp 20gal compressor for the past 20+ years, I recently purchased this 80gal 4hp Campbell-Hausfield. What a difference it makes for my purposes!

Some years ago, I invented this little regulated shot of air to clear out chips in the interior of bowls with inward slanting walls while the lathe was running. With the old compressor, it only worked for a short period of time before heat build up within the lines, caused by a continual running compressor, caused condensation and subsequent "spitting" of H20 on my bowl.......never again! The new compressor works like a dream. With this set-up, I don't need to keep starting and stopping the lathe to remove built up chips.

I am now one "happy camper"!

otis of cologne

 

[loberg]

I, also, have a large compressor. But I have all of my air tools from drag racing, metal lathe, welders as well as my woodworking shop. I use a Shopvac to clean up most of the mess and an air nozzle to clean the machinery. After my first air tool I could not live without them. I have a portable (110 volt) that goes with a generator for work "in the field". Just my opinion.

 

[robert davis]

i do not use a compressor as my shop is in the basement and do not wish to help dust get into upstairs. i have a small shopvac hanging at the lathe to remove stuff from hollow forms.tales a little longer but helps keep the house clean...