Tung, Walnut or Danish Oil?

[Norm Marentette]

I am about to finish some hickory and hackberry bowls. I am not sure what is the best oil for the job. I have used Danish Oil (Natural) on some projects but wondering if tung or Mahoney's Walnut oil would be a better product? Would like to keep the natural look of the wood and also make some items food safe. Would you finish the inside with a different finish than the outside? Have read a lot of articles on the subject just can't get my head around it for some reason and make a final decision. Thanks ahead of time for the input everyone!

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

If you decide on walnut oil, in my opinion from the grocery store is just as good as Mike's. I've used both and have had similar results. I like the brand La Tourangelle Roasted Walnut Oil. I've moved away from walnut oil to a tung and citrus oil mix. It applies just like walnut oil, darkens the oil like walnut oil but seems to dry faster and doesn't dry out as fast. With Walnut oilI was having to re-apply it every few months. The diluted tung doesn't need to be re-applied as often. I haven't tried polymerized tung oil (PTO) but if I understand correctly after it dries you can buff it to almost a shellac like finish.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks Charles for the info. I have read that PTO is becoming more popular for a lot of turners. Would like to keep a natural satin sheen if possible. Not sold on the glossy look but I know some people tend to like it. For those who sell at shows or wherever, what do most people seem to like?

 

[Dave Landers]

I personally like walnut oil (I use Mahoney's). It's easy to tell someone it's food safe without having to delve into "oh well you know if the nasty chemicals are cured....". I also tell my customers they can get walnut oil from their market and touch up their bowl if it needs it.
As for inside/outside, I usually buff the outside (3 wheels, ending with carnauba wax) because I (and my customers) like the way it feels (ad shines) when they pick up the bowl. I don't buff the insides because I want people to use their bowls, and too glossy a finish on the inside might discourage that.
My $0.02 anyway.

 

[Richard Coers]

There is no "best" oil. Do you want a natural oil that never really cures, an oil that has some driers in it so you can get a little sheen, an oil that has resin in it so it's more like a thin varnish. etc.... I suggest you do a little testing with some samples to see what you like. Test on scraps, not finished bowls. I can't say I've ever seen a chip or chuck of finish end up in food to poison anyone.

 

[Wally Crawford]

I use both shellac and Watco natural finishes for bowls that I sell at craft fairs and pop up events. Shiny outsells oiled finishes 3-1. I "sell" the natural oil finish as I think it is the better finish if the bowl is going to be used, but either I am not much of a salesman or there is a much higher interest in the shellac finish.

 

[Dean Center]

Be aware that Danish Oil is not truly an oil, in the way that walnut, tung and linseed/flaxseed are oils. Danish oil is a mix of oil and varnish. Different brands have different components, but all are a blend. That doesn't mean you can't apply like oil or achieve a soft satin lustre, just that it's a different product.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I’m in the same camp as @Richard Coers, each oil type has its pros and cons. Each turner will have their opinion of what they like and why. I throw another finish into the mix, plain poly varnish, thinned 1:1, and applied the same as the oils.

Much depends on the “food safe” aspect of a given finish and what a turner believes. The FDA regards all of them as food safe once cured (I have the regulation somewhere in my computer).

Another aspect is voc’s - some dont want to deal with the voc’s from danish, poly, etc.

Decide for yourself about food safe and voc’s, then do some tests based on that.

IMO food safe and voc aspects have led to the polularity of tung and citrus solvent. Its good but expensive vs other possibilities. I have not tried it but did find a prepolymerized tung oil (faster cure - similar to Mahoneys and Drs wood shop walnut) from the Skin Boat School store.

Intended item use has a lot to do with how I finish an item. Any item intended to have metal utensils touch it will get a walnut oil finish, matte or satin (controlled by final sanding grit, and amount/# of coats of oil). Most easily touched up by the user.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

@Doug, how do you thin your poly, do you use mineral spirits? Thanks!

 

[Randy Anderson]

Norm, the debate, facts, preferences and opinions on "best" finish to use can send you into a never ending spiral. At least it did me early on. Lots of folks here are experts at finishing techniques so I read lots of threads here that helped a lot. After a bit of trial and error I decided I needed to settle on what worked in my shop, for my tastes, my patience limits and my customer preferences. I couldn't keep chasing the next finish.

For bowls I use Mahoney's oil and sometimes Doctor's Woodshop. Most all my bowls are natural/live edge. Walnut oil is easy to apply, food safe, etc, etc. and I think it matches the expected look and feel of a natural edge bowl. I buff with Acks wax, or a couple others I have around that work as well. I sell a lot at local area craft shows and markets. Walnut oil as a finish on bowls works very well for me. On vases and hollow forms I use shellac as my final finish. I use abrasive paste after sanding to add some tone and a nice base surface.

As a caveat to the oil on bowls standard I use danish oil on poplar. I've had some issues with walnut oil curing correctly on it. Likely my error but I just avoid the potential problem.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

My feeling is to use what you like best and is the easiest for you to apply. I've gone through several phases. I like duller finishes. At various times I've used,
-a mix of beeswax and mineral oil because it's easy to apply and gives me a nice soft, deep finish (but, over time, it may need to be reapplied)
-a couple of base coast of alcohol thinned shellac from the can, then a final finish of satin poly
-wipe-on satin poly (Minwax is good)
-Hope's Tung Oil thinned with orange citrus solvent which is my current favorite. It gives the deep finish that I really like from tung oil and thinning it 50/50 with the citrus solvent makes it dry quickly with no bleeding back out. With the citrus solvent it smells like oranges (which is good if you like oranges).

I have never found one that is "the best". They all work. It depends on what you want the result to look like, time you want to take with it, and what type of turning it is. I like tung oil, beeswax or poly for bowls which are just bowls with no carving, etc. If the wood is great looking they bring out the grain best (at least to me the do).

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks for the great info gentlemen. I just ordered some of Mahoney’s walnut oil. Will give it a try. I like the citrus mix suggested and will try it also. Again thanks from all of you. Think I will try all suggestions and make a wood and finish display.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

a little drift here—anyone use Tru-Oil? It’s on gunstocks mostly but on YouTube it looked nice for a bowl.

 

[Dean Center]

I have used Tru Oil in special situations. It makes a nice finish, if you put on a gazillion thin coats. It also turns to gel in the jar in weeks and is kind of pricey. (though there are lots of comparably priced finishes woodturners use) It would be classed as a "Danish Oil" as it is a proprietary blend of oil and varnish.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I have used Tru Oil on a few small projects and it does work well but is high gloss since is used for gun stocks. I recommend the spray as the brush on can does go bad rather quickly once opened.

 

[Doug Freeman]

@Doug, how do you thin your poly, do you use mineral spirits? Thanks!

Either mineral spirits or paint thinner, the water clear, non- “green” stuff. FYI I use minwax semi gloss poly.

Poly vs do or oils - It depends on the finished look one wants. All applied the same - let soak in to saturation, wipe off. The poly builds more, giving a more “full” look, but the negative grain etc is still visible. Hard to describe, just give it try and compare. Semi gloss so the bark and negative areas dont shine, which is where the “plastic look” originates.

 

[Michael Edelman]

a little drift here—anyone use Tru-Oil? It’s on gunstocks mostly but on YouTube it looked nice for a bowl.

One of my favorites. It‘s easy to apply and hardens quickly.

 

[Steven Forrest]

I also sorted this issue out as best I could for my purposes. For decorative, sit-on-a-shelf items, I use General Finishes Seal a Cell, usually a couple of coats - some protection and gloss, but still feels like wood, and not wet shiny. (Buffed out with Beall tripoli and either Renaissance Wax or Doctor's Microcrystalline Oil/Wax. I abandoned white diamond after it visibly settled in the pores of dark wood). If I were making furniture or chairs, I doubt the Seal a Cell would suffice, but for stuff that's mainly on display or carefully handled, it's fine. It's oil (linseed, I believe) and a modest proportion of varnish, and has dryers in it. (By comparison, the Armor Seal is oil and varnish, but heavier on the varnish.) For daily use items, I use polymerized tung oil from Sutherland Welles. I have also used the stuff from the Skin Boat Store noted in Doug Freeman's post, but I had some that didn't want to dry, so I found the Sutherland Welles. Both are heat treated, and both offer citrus solvent thinner. I may be convincing myself, but I feel like the tung oil offers a bit more protection and durability than the walnut oil. I also usually wet sand these with one of the heat treated walnut oils (Doctor's Woodshop or Mahoney's) before applying formal finish. Finish with Beall and Doctor's oil/wax. I've been pleased with the results, which feel silky smooth and have a nice mellow glow, and so far, so have my customers, as far as I can tell.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

adding to the mix—just used Tried and True—a proprietary mix of BLO and beeswax. Easy to apply and gives a nice finish with just a couple coats a day apart.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone, I can't wait to try some of the suggestions everyones made!

 

[robo hippy]

I have been using the Doctor's Woodshop oil/carnuba wax mix for a number of years. With his wax mix, you don't need heat to get it to spread. It does take a while to dry, and sun and/or mild heat will accelerate the curing. I will not put anything on my bowls that I can't eat straight out of the can. Some people can be sensitive to the driers used in the poly type finishes and can react long after the FDA says they are safe. All store bought walnut oils are not the same, due to different extraction and heat treating of their oils. Some will cure, some will not.

robo hippy

 

[Steve Chaplin]

I use a lot of pure Tung oil. Many products that say Tung oil on them are oil varnish mixes or a varnish made with Tung oil. Make sure it is 100% Tung oil. Thin with either citrus solvent or real turpentine (not the big box stuff) down to 50/50. I wipe on 3 to 4 coats or more waiting a day for the first couple and two days for the last couple. If you want to buff it out for a nice shine wait at least a week for it to get hard, I usually wait at least 2 weeks. A Beall buff works well to get a nice soft luster, looks like a semi gloss. It does take a while but not much of your time as wiping on a coat only takes a minute.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

In the first 10 years or so of my turning addiction I did try different finishes and oils were tried as well, looking at the MSDS infos I could find gave me info like (it makes it look like Tung oil finish but there is not a drop of Tung oil used in it), others got rancid and others never hardened or stayed sticky, all kinds of claims and secret ingredients and/or treatment, like you can buy it in the store but of course that could not be the same things, as is/was claimed.

So then I landed on Polymerized Tung Oil (PTO as I call it for short) well that did exactly what I wanted, easy to apply and fairly fast harden, just overnight in a warm place and you could add another coat on it, and that is usually all that is needed.

If I wanted a glossy finish I would wait for the PTO to harden more and can than polish it with no problem.

So for the last 25 years or longer I have used PTO as my finish, no reason to go and try some other highly claimed super finish, I know what I like and have it already. POLYMERIZED TUNG OIL.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks for your opinion Leo. In the end I agree with your summation fully. Looking at the MSDS sheets etc. of various oils and varnishes etc.. I agree that the PTO option looks like a go to finish for what I am looking for. Have you had any luck or opinion on Mahoney's walnut oil because I just ordered one 16 oz. bottle to try. Another thing I have found is that some of the brands mentioned in this thread are not readily available in Canada. What make of PTO do you buy? Or do you mix your own? I see that Lee Valley sells a brand of PTO. Thanks again for the info.

 

[hughie]

Much of what is available in the USA isnt avialable or is very exspensive for me down under. Tung oil by and large has quite a few additives , if I want polymerized its around $100 per litre its not so attractive .

https://www.fiddesaustralia.com/product/tung-oil/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnrmlBhDHARIsADJ5b_nNQvv_jC-8sMnCbopvFAuLOaWO9_Cryu4WV_JbbT9hixXrPUP_Jv8aAgELEALw_wcB

So I use Danish Oil and generally mix it myself I loosely follow the 33/33/33 recipe

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks for your opinion Leo. In the end I agree with your summation fully. Looking at the MSDS sheets etc. of various oils and varnishes etc.. I agree that the PTO option looks like a go to finish for what I am looking for. Have you had any luck or opinion on Mahoney's walnut oil because I just ordered one 16 oz. bottle to try. Another thing I have found is that some of the brands mentioned in this thread are not readily available in Canada. What make of PTO do you buy? Or do you mix your own? I see that Lee Valley sells a brand of PTO. Thanks again for the info.

Norm, Walnut oil is a very slow drying oil, plus when fully dry it is a soft finish, Walnut oil will never be a hard finish that is just what the product is.

Yes I do use the Lee Valley PTO, you could also use the Pure Tung Oil, it dries slower and will not become as hard and shiny as the Polymerized Tung Oil.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks again Leo for the info on PTO. Hughie, I just visited Australia in April of this year, would trade access to your trees for the finishes. Woodturners dreamland for sure!

 

[Tom Lucas]

For food safe applications, I use Tried & True, either original or pure danish oil. These leave a nice soft luster and are great to hold.

Lately, on some pieces, I've just used a polishing wax called True Grit abrasive paste. Easily applied on the lathe and leaves a very pretty finish with tactile feel. I haven't found anything easier to use.

In almost all cases, I first use a 1-lb cut of shellac to seal before final finish.

On really porous pieces, likely heavily spalted, I sometimes use MinWax tung oil finish. I do this when the wood is just too thirsty where the danish oil finishes just won't raise a shine. The Minwax does a good job of sealing the wood so it's not quite so thirsty. If the Minwax is applied sparingly (1 or 2 coats), it won't build a visible layer and can be overcoated with oil/wax mixes. (I really need to just stop working with such crappy wood).

When I want a high gloss finish, I use wipe-on poly.

 

[Mike Harman]

If you use walnut oil on anything to do with food you MUST tell people the object has been done with walnut oil in case they or anyone touching it is al[ergic to nuts.
Nut allergy is one of the worst there is and only takes an very small amount to do the damage to people.

 

[Dean Center]

On really porous pieces, likely heavily spalted, I sometimes use MinWax tung oil finish. I do this when the wood is just too thirsty where the danish oil finishes just won't raise a shine.

The MinWax tung oil finish is a "Danish Oil", even if not labeled that, as "Danish Oil" as a category simply means an oil-varnish blend. Also, be aware that the Minwax "Tung" oil finish is one of those peculiarly labeled products that may not actually contain any tung oil, and instead will use a different oil in the blend.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

For food safe applications, I use Tried & True, either original or pure danish oil. These leave a nice soft luster and are great to hold.

Lately, on some pieces, I've just used a polishing wax called True Grit abrasive paste. Easily applied on the lathe and leaves a very pretty finish with tactile feel. I haven't found anything easier to use.

In almost all cases, I first use a 1-lb cut of shellac to seal before final finish.

On really porous pieces, likely heavily spalted, I sometimes use MinWax tung oil finish. I do this when the wood is just too thirsty where the danish oil finishes just won't raise a shine. The Minwax does a good job of sealing the wood so it's not quite so thirsty. If the Minwax is applied sparingly (1 or 2 coats), it won't build a visible layer and can be overcoated with oil/wax mixes. (I really need to just stop working with such crappy wood).

When I want a high gloss finish, I use wipe-on poly.

Tom I see and know that there are more turners using MinWax tung oil finish, I did get the info and can tell you that there is not a drop of Tung Oil in it, they get away with this lie by using the word finish, as they claim it will make a finish like tung oil, but it is mostly just volatiles.

And pure Danish Oil ???, so called Danish Oil is a mixture ofBoiled Linseed oil and some other stuff depending who makes it, and Boiled Linseed Oil has the heavy metal salts in there to have it harden up, not quite Food safe IMO.

Anyway I have stopped using any of these products , no varnishes or BLO etc anymore for me.

 

[hughie]

Thanks again Leo for the info on PTO. Hughie, I just visited Australia in April of this year, would trade access to your trees for the finishes. Woodturners dreamland for sure!

I would agree Norm, shame we couldnt catch up on your visit. I usually carry alot of native wood for perusal and sampling you guys really should come by ship it takes care of the weight factor.

 

[Tom Lucas]

Tom I see and know that there are more turners using MinWax tung oil finish, I did get the info and can tell you that there is not a drop of Tung Oil in it, they get away with this lie by using the word finish, as they claim it will make a finish like tung oil, but it is mostly just volatiles.

And pure Danish Oil ???, so called Danish Oil is a mixture ofBoiled Linseed oil and some other stuff depending who makes it, and Boiled Linseed Oil has the heavy metal salts in there to have it harden up, not quite Food safe IMO.

Anyway I have stopped using any of these products , no varnishes or BLO etc anymore for me.

I don't know nor care what is in Minwax tung oil finish. That is simply the name Minwax gives it. I use it sometimes as a sealer on non-food turned items and then topcoat. I like it most for flat work because it is durable yet repairable without stripping and can be refreshed at any time.

Tried & True simply states it is polymerized linseed oil. I take that at face value as "pure", as I've seen nothing to prove there is anything else in it. The "pure" linseed/tung oil discussion has been beaten to death. I use T&T products as a food-safe finish, and will continue to do so. Others can and will do differently. This food-safe thing is way over the top. It's simply not a serious risk given how wooden kitchen items are used. How many have died or became seriously ill from finish residuals in wooden utensils? I'll die someday but it won't be because of the minuscule amount of BLO that might leach into my food.

 

[JeffSmith]

If you use walnut oil on anything to do with food you MUST tell people the object has been done with walnut oil in case they or anyone touching it is al[ergic to nuts.
Nut allergy is one of the worst there is and only takes an very small amount to do the damage to people.

Mike - as I understand it, both Mahoney’s and the Doctor’s brands of walnut oil finishes have been heat treated to destroy the protein in walnut oil that causes problems for those with nut allergies. It is 100% effective as they report. It also Allows the finish oils to cure where the grocery store versions do not fully cure. That’s the difference between walnut oils used for cooking available in the grocery store and those that have been processed for use as a wood finish.

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks Jeff for clarifying the walnut oil concerns. Leo I agree most labelled items are not what they seem. Just read the msd sheets. Thanks for everyone’s opinion on the subject.

 

[Mike Harman]

Jeff That may be right when you can buy those brands of oil but I have never seen them in New Zealand that is why I posted the warning better to be safe than sorry.

 

[JeffSmith]

Jeff That may be right when you can buy those brands of oil but I have never seen them in New Zealand that is why I posted the warning better to be safe than sorry.

Agreed - always better safe. Might be worth seeing if Mike Maloney or Doctor’s has a distributor over there. Both are on the West Coast of the US. I use the Doctor’s workshop product that combines walnut oil and micro - carnuba wax blended together. It does a good job and has not resulted in a reaction from my daughter who is effected by nut oils. Here are links to both their websites with full information and online stores - they may ship your way.

Doctor’s Woodshop: https://www.doctorswoodshop.com/

Mike Mahoney: https://bowlmakerinc.com/

 

[Norm Marentette]

Thanks Jeff for the info. Ended up ordering through Amazon.ca and got a 16 oz. bottle for $48. Woodchuckers.com also had it for even more. Only problem could only get the Walnut oil not the mix of wax with it. What wax would you suggest at the end of the finishing process? Or should one leave as is? I also purchased 2 small cans of polymerized tung oil 250ml of sealer and oil for $30 each at Lee Valley .ca. Getting expensive to try these finishes. Hope to try various finishes and pick one or 2 based on the satin natural look.