Tormek Alternatives?

[Tony Perelli]

Hi All,
A friend is shopping for a Tormek after using mine, it has me wondering if anyone has had good luck with any specific clones out there. They will only operate it occasionally for short amounts of time, Tormek feels like overkill.
I've used the Wen and it did a nice job, especially with a updated wheel. How about the Jet or Grizzly? Or others? Thanks for any input!
Tony

 

[Richard Coers]

My Jet has performed very well for more than 10+ years. Added a CBN wheel a couple years ago since they don't need water.

 

[John Whitley]

A professional woodworker of my acquaintance in my area is a fan of the Grizzly model. Important note: he's a flat woodworker who uses hand tools extensively in his work (planes, chisels, etc.). That wet grinder is used only to reestablish a hollow grind, for time-efficient honing. Anyhow, that was some years ago, so I've no idea if the current model has undergone revisions since then. In my experience, the revisions are largely engineering improvements and/or fixes, but there have been occasional reports of regressions.

To expand on Richard's point, if your friend ends up going CBN anyway, then I wouldn't bother with a Tormek-style grinder. Just get a decent basic grinder ala an 8" Rikon. The RPMs on wet grinders are very slow for use with a CBN wheel, IMO. For example, a "slow" dry grinder is ~1800 RPM or so, and a regular grinder twice that. Either is fine for woodturning use with modern HSS tools. By comparison, these wet grinders typically run in an adjustable range of 90-150 RPM. That's going to take a lot longer to get your edges sorted out and get back to turning. EDIT: I stand corrected here, thanks to Bill Boeheme's post and others, below. Bill clarifies that there's a difference in pressure applied, and otherwise Tormek and similar grinders work fine for turning.

 

[RichColvin]

I find it interesting that this forum discusses knockoffs as being a problem but looks at “alternatives” as ok. Tormek is the only company innovating in this space and that should be considered.

 

[Richard Coers]

A professional woodworker of my acquaintance in my area is a fan of the Grizzly model. Important note: he's a flat woodworker who uses hand tools extensively in his work (planes, chisels, etc.). That wet grinder is used only to reestablish a hollow grind, for time-efficient honing. Anyhow, that was some years ago, so I've no idea if the current model has undergone revisions since then. In my experience, the revisions are largely engineering improvements and/or fixes, but there have been occasional reports of regressions.

To expand on Richard's point, if your friend ends up going CBN anyway, then I wouldn't bother with a Tormek-style grinder. Just get a decent basic grinder ala an 8" Rikon. The RPMs on wet grinders are very slow for use with a CBN wheel, IMO. For example, a "slow" dry grinder is ~1800 RPM or so, and a regular grinder twice that. Either is fine for woodturning use with modern HSS tools. By comparison, these wet grinders typically run in an adjustable range of 90-150 RPM. That's going to take a lot longer to get your edges sorted out and get back to turning.

Maybe the guy does more than turning tools. I do carving tools and planer/jointer blades on mine too. As long as you aren't creating a new shape on a turning tool, the rpm is not a hinderance.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The RPMs on wet grinders are very slow for use with a CBN wheel, IMO. For example, a "slow" dry grinder is ~1800 RPM or so, and a regular grinder twice that. Either is fine for woodturning use with modern HSS tools. By comparison, these wet grinders typically run in an adjustable range of 90-150 RPM. That's going to take a lot longer to get your edges sorted out and get back to turning.

I've used a Tormek for 25 years, about 5 years before I started woodturning. I originally bought it for sharpening chisels, plane irons, jointer blades, and planer blades.

I have updated my Tormek Supergrind 2000 over the years to incorporate improvements made with the T6 and T7 models. The current T8 model uses a diecast zinc alloy frame. The previous models used a powder-coated steel frame. The T8 has a mechanism for raising and lowering the water trough. It also has a different type of honing wheel to replace the leather honing wheel used on previous models. The new honing wheel does not require oiling and charging with honing paste ... add a bit of water to wet the wheel, and you're good to go.

The Tormek is most definitely NOT too slow for use with a CBN wheel. I had a ten-inch 1000-grit CBN wheel from Woodturners Wonders and it cut just as fast as using a CBN wheel on a dry grinder. The reason is the difference in applied pressure. On a dry grinder, you apply a feather-light pressure whereas on the Tormek the pressure is much greater, but I still consider it "light". Ken Rizza says not to use the CBN with water, but I did along with Honeright Gold anti-corrosion additive. I didn't leave the wheel sitting in water; I removed the wheel and dried it when I was done. I gave my CBN wheel to Bill Blasic because I now use diamond wheels.

My latest toy accessory for my Tormek is the drill sharpening fixture. I had a lot of dull drill bits and I was hoping that I could get them reasonably close to their original sharpness so I was caught off guard by how much better they were than new conical point drills. The Tormek drill fixture puts a four-facet point on the drills that I think is close to a split-point drill sharpness. Conical point drills have a somewhat blunt chisel tip across the web that can only grind, it can't cut. They also like to walk when applying anything more than light pressure or drilling hard materials (including wood that has a difference between early and late wood hardness in the growth rings.).

 

[Bill Blasic]

And I thank Bill for that CBN wheel for my Tormek. Along with that CBN addition the new Tormek shaft with the easy tighten lock nut is like a brand new grinder. Now I'll have to look into that new toy accessory that Bill has got for sharpening drill bits

 

[Mike Novak]

I have the Wen, but use the Tormek jigs. The wheel on the Wen machine is not very good if you want to get things really sharp. A good 10 inch wheel is very expensive.

Instead of buying a new 10 inch wheel for the Wen I bought a half horsepower grinder from woodcraft and a couple of CBN wheels. I set up the grinder so I can use the Tormek jigs. Works great for turning tools and chisels, but it’s too aggressive to sharpen knives. For sharpening knives I use the DMT aligner pro kit.

Here’s my grinder set up. I can slide the long USB rod into hole a or B. I can go from the course wheel to the fine wheel with perfect alignment. The platform slides into the two holes on the top. Because the. USB goes into fixed holes the alignment for that is always perfect also. No futzing with adjustments.

 

[John Whitley]

The Tormek is most definitely NOT too slow for use with a CBN wheel. I had a ten-inch 1000-grit CBN wheel from Woodturners Wonders and it cut just as fast as using a CBN wheel on a dry grinder. The reason is the difference in applied pressure. On a dry grinder, you apply a feather-light pressure whereas on the Tormek the pressure is much greater, but I still consider it "light".

Thanks for the insight and clarification, Bill. I'll tweak my post above accordingly to reference your experience here.

 

[robo hippy]

Every body and their extended families now make these wet wheel style grinders/sharpeners. I do think the Tormek may be over priced a bit, but they were the original. Mine is maybe 30 years old, can't remember. I am sure there is some dust on my drive part of the system since if I push too hard, the drive slips. I do have the diamond wheels for it, but haven't put them on yet. My plan is to use those for my plane irons and bench chisels. Maybe planer knife blades unless I buy a new planer with the indexable carbide inserts, which I may do. I do use it for stropping my skew chisels. I would use it for my kitchen knives, but those are in the house, and I have manual strops over there. Some day I will sharpen the box of carving chisels I purchased off of Craigslist...... Some day....

robo hippy

 

[Tony Perelli]

Thanks everybody for the great input!
I love all the reports of how long these things can last and thanks Rich C for the point you make about knockoffs etc.
I've been stoked to have my T8 but it's still pretty new, I love that it's made sharpening a bit more enjoyable in that I trust the process, the machine feels solid and the work happens fast enough while still feeling relaxed/quiet/smooth.
Thanks!

 

[Bill Alston]

One thing with the Tormek is that the spindle shaft is Stainless Steel on the later models, so shouldn’t rust so readily.
Do the alternatives have this feature? Rather handy I would have thought if you forget to empty the water tray?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Mine is maybe 30 years old, can't remember. I am sure there is some dust on my drive part of the system since if I push too hard, the drive slips.

That problem is easily fixed. The motor shaft rides on a thick rubber ring on the drive wheel (the honing wheel is attached to the drive wheel with three screws). Given the age of your machine, l think that the rubber ring has gotten hard due to ozone cracking. You might be able to temporarily restore it with belt dressing. The better long term solution is to replace the drive wheel.

If your machine still has the original drive shaft with a big hex nut, one of the best things you can do is replace it with a stainless steel shaft with a thumb screw. This will make changing wheels much easier and no tools required. While you are at it, replace the plastic drive shaft bushings because they are no doubt worn out.

 

[Bill Boehme]

One thing with the Tormek is that the spindle shaft is Stainless Steel on the later models, so shouldn’t rust so readily.
Do the alternatives have this feature? Rather handy I would have thought if you forget to empty the water tray?

The early stainless steel shafts with the thumb nut used an alloy that was more prone to corrosion especially if you frequently left the grinding wheel sitting in water for days. I was guilty of that and had hell to pay getting the grinding wheel off the shaft. The shaft had very deep corrosion and had to be replaced. The replacement shaft appears to be more resistant to corrosion, but I don’t tempt fate by leaving the grinding wheel sitting in water.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I find it interesting that this forum discusses knockoffs as being a problem but looks at “alternatives” as ok. Tormek is the only company innovating in this space and that should be considered.

Knockoffs aren't the issue - *as long as they acknowledge they are knockoffs* - The issue comes up when Knockoffs are trying to be sold as the Quality brand (I.E. take a knockoff like Wen and polish/paint/modify it to look like the Tormek and the sell it as a Tormek, at the Tormek price... or as the original thread was about - someone copying the woodcut bowl saver and selling it as a Woodcut.)