Tommy Bar Chucks vs Keyed Chucks

[Gregory Hickman]

Most scroll chucks are operated by a chuck key. This type of tightening device makes a lot of sense, as they are easier to tighten with one hand. Looking at the difference between the two methods shows that the keyed Chucks are a bit larger than the Tommy Bar Chucks, of course most know this already. Additionally the size and by default the weight difference, don't make much of a difference to most turners.

As a new turner, with a smaller lathe (than most), I'm thinking this might actually make a difference for me. I currently own a Nova Pro-Tek G3 chuck so I've made my decision on brand and jaw style, but am thinking of i add other chucks anytime soon should I consider a Nova 48122 Select Precision Midi Chuck? There is a slight difference in the depth of the chuck and a 1 pound difference between the Midi and Pro-Tek. On the smaller bathe that might be beneficial.

My question to those with much more experience is, is my thought process accurate? If you had a smaller lathe would you go the Midi chuck route? Is using Tommy bars enough of a disadvantage or PITA that they should be avoided? Additionally, do these chucks end up sitting on your shelf unused, after getting keyed chucks?

Gregory

 

[Bill Alston]

I’ve not used a chuck that used Tommy Bars but others have indeed commented that it’s not ideal. At least in comparison to a normal scroll chuck.

If you’re after a small chuck that’s very light I can recommend the Record Power SC2, it’s just 2 1/2” Diameter.

SC2 2 1/2" Mini Chuck Package, M33 x 3.5

Woodworking Machinery and Accessories

www.recordpower.co.uk

 

[Darryl Fective]

I bought one just to try out, and to use with my homemade threading jig. We had some kind of public demo eventand I was using it on one of our club mini lathes. Somehow after the event, I didn't find it in all my boxes of stuff. I was more upset about losing the jaws on it.

They work, and maybe if you started with them, you'd get used to them. With my intermittent use, I could never remember which ring moved, which direction, or which one was solid for removing the chuck. You have to know them well or you'll feel like you need 3 hands to chuck up a piece.

I hadn't really thought about a weight and rotational power as the difference seems negligible. You do gain just a touch more working (spindle) capacity because their lower profile, though.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

You're probably overthinking it. I'm not one of those guys that has 20 chucks. I have 3 SuperNova 2s. I like that I only have one T-handle to keep track of. I have one set up with 2" jaws, one with 4", and one with Cole jaws that I don't really use. I had a small chuck on my starter lathe. Since I got the new lathe and SuperNovas, I've never thought, "I wish I could use that smaller chuck on this lathe."

 

[Bill Alston]

I bought one just to try out, and to use with my homemade threading jig.

I used my little RP SC2 chuck on my Simon Hope threading jig. Having less weight hanging on the spindle was a definite advantage. I’m thinking of buying another specifically for jig use. One for the base of boxes the other for the lid.

Record Power SC2 Direct Thread Mini Chuck

The Record SC2 2-1/2" Mini Chuck features a slightly larger body diameter than the SC1 for increased holding capacity. Designed for intricate work, the SC2 is easy to work around and offers a solid grip and exceptional accuracy. Precision machined from 2045 high tensile steel for strength and...

woodturnerscatalog.com

 

[Gregory Hickman]

If you’re after a small chuck that’s very light I can recommend the Record Power SC2, it’s just 2 1/2” Diameter.

I've looked at those, but like their big brothers the jaws are not compatible. It doesn't mean if never get one, just not ideal.

Gregory

 

[Brian Gustin]

I like my no-name tommy bar chuck that I originally got along with my (long gone) Harbor Freight lathe - I find that sometimes - Key word sometimes - it makes chucking up a little easier because I can snug it up by hand without needing to lock the headstock.. I also use it when I expect to be turning freshly cut green blanks (not as much time spent cleaning chuck and jaws, since this junky one is already rusty)

But beyond that, I love my Supernova 2's (Hex key ball end tightening/loosening) more than my G3 (geared key) Despite what many others complain about the SN2 and ball end hex key, I find it isn't going to cam out or cause problems as long as you aren't *torquing* anything....

So to me, a chuck is a chuck, each has their pros and cons, each may have their usefulness over others in certain situations, but , if you could only have one, I don't think there's any overwhelming advantage of one type over the other.

The tommy bar chucks, you do have to fumble around with the two bars, so if you are chucking up something heavy without tailstock help, it's a struggle to get them snugged enough to hold the work....

 

[Odie]

My question to those with much more experience is, is my thought process accurate? If you had a smaller lathe would you go the Midi chuck route? Is using Tommy bars enough of a disadvantage or PITA that they should be avoided? Additionally, do these chucks end up sitting on your shelf unused, after getting keyed chucks?

Absolutely! I had two tommy bar chucks, and I sold them both a long time ago.

Keyed chucks are the only way to go!

=o=

 

[Dave Landers]

I have one tommy-bar chuck (old Nova). I don't use it that often.
It is smaller and lighter than its keyed brother. And likely less expensive as it was my 1st chuck purchase.
It is really inconvenient to use with 2 bars, as I don't currently have a 3rd hand to hold the wood.
It can be used with 1 bar if the lathe has a good spindle lock.
I can never remember which way the rings turn to tighten/loosen.
I have heard that some people like them because expanding/contracting the jaws is faster.

 

[Darryl Fective]

... I find that sometimes - Key word sometimes - it makes chucking up a little easier because I can snug it up by hand without needing to lock the headstock...

There is some convenience with being able to open or close a chuck by hand. All my other (Nova) chucks require the hex key.

 

[John K Jordan]

As has been mentioned, the tommy bar chucks benefit from having three hands or an assistant. However, if you turn a nice tenon or recess on a blank you can hold with a little pressure from the tailstock. But this can be helpful with any chuck since it keeps the blank aligned.

If I felt chuck deprived and found a tommy bar chuck for real cheap, I'd probably grab it. However, I haven't seen one in a long time.

As for a chuck for a small lathe, the smaller chucks like the Nova G3 work well and the insert version can be used with a larger lathe. (I did this for years) The Nova Supernova chucks are not too massive for even a mini lathe, although some might take up a bit more of the limited bed length.

 

[hockenbery]

Is using Tommy bars enough of a disadvantage or PITA that they should be avoided?

I would say yes for most hobby turners.

I know several professional turners who prefer the Tommy bar because it much faster for them.
They lock the spindle. Hold the piece with one hand. Pull on a long handled tommy bar with the other had to tighten push to release.
They all make a Tommy bar with a wooded handle

 

[Doug Freeman]

With about the same depth, there’s no real advantage gained in turning length.

The 1 lb weight difference might be noticed in how fast the lathe motor gets things back up to speed, as in a second or two. Might also notice that the lighter chuck coasts to a stop a few seconds faster - the rotational inertia aspect depends on the weight of the work - the heavier the blank the less the chuck weight difference will make.

If you want more chucks so jaws dont have to be changed as often, and funds are limited, it could make sense. I’ve never had one, but I think they would be a pita when mixed with keyed chucks. If a tommy chuck was all that was available I suspect most of us would use one vs faceplates.

 

[Russell Nugent]

I'd just continue with the g3. The Tommy bar chuck was of with a locking spindle lock so you could use one handed but I never noticed a difference between the 2 chucks on my nova comet when I had it.

 

[Bob Slocum]

At the time I bought my chuck it was the original Oneway or the Stronghold. I’m an occasional turner so fumbling around with the tommy bars has not been a problem. If I were to buy today, I’d probably choose the Talon with key to avoid the fumbling.

This past year I bought a larger chuck with a square key and it’s a joy to use. However I’m still keeping my original Oneways.

 

[Bill Alston]

I've looked at those, but like their big brothers the jaws are not compatible. It doesn't mean if never get one, just not ideal.

Gregory

Oh sure, I understand. The thing is that the complete chuck with a set of standard jaws is quite cheap over here, just £69.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I’ve not used a chuck that used Tommy Bars but others have indeed commented that it’s not ideal. At least in comparison to a normal scroll chuck.

If you’re after a small chuck that’s very light I can recommend the Record Power SC2, it’s just 2 1/2” Diameter.

SC2 2 1/2" Mini Chuck Package, M33 x 3.5

Woodworking Machinery and Accessories

www.recordpower.co.uk

That is a nice Chuck, I have one. The jaws are a little different and won’t fit the normal RP and Nova chucks or jaws. Mine came threaded for 1-1/4” by 8.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Is using Tommy bars enough of a disadvantage or PITA that they should be avoided?

Yes, I would avoid any chuck with tommy bars.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

I have one tommy-bar chuck (old Nova). I don't use it that often.
It is smaller and lighter than its keyed brother. And likely less expensive as it was my 1st chuck purchase.
It is really inconvenient to use with 2 bars, as I don't currently have a 3rd hand to hold the wood.
It can be used with 1 bar if the lathe has a good spindle lock.
I can never remember which way the rings turn to tighten/loosen.
I have heard that some people like them because expanding/contracting the jaws is faster.

Perfect summary!

 

[Bill Alston]

There were some strange Tommy bar chucks sold to wood turners in the 1970’s? They didn’t stand the test of time once the scroll chucks we use today hit the market.
Nova claim theirs came out in 1980 and Axminster 1984?

 

[hughie]

Absolutely! I had two tommy bar chucks, and I sold them both a long time ago.

Keyed chucks are the only way to go!

=o=

Yup I have several Super Nova 2 the 5' dia fore runners to the Titan chuck. They can carry a 29" blank apparently, I say apparently as I dont think my lathe would be up to it the gripping power is very good and that whats its all about.

 

[Gregory Hickman]

and that whats its all about.

You do the hokey pokey...

I had to it was just laying there.

Gregory

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I will have to disagree. I use tommy bar chucks almost exclusively. I have one keyed chuck and 4 tommy bar chucks. They opperate much faster than a key chuck. And no I don't need 3 hands, as long as you have a good spindle lock.

 

[William Rogers]

I used my little RP SC2 chuck on my Simon Hope threading jig. Having less weight hanging on the spindle was a definite advantage. I’m thinking of buying another specifically for jig use. One for the base of boxes the other for the lid.

Record Power SC2 Direct Thread Mini Chuck

The Record SC2 2-1/2" Mini Chuck features a slightly larger body diameter than the SC1 for increased holding capacity. Designed for intricate work, the SC2 is easy to work around and offers a solid grip and exceptional accuracy. Precision machined from 2045 high tensile steel for strength and...

woodturnerscatalog.com

Bill, can you explain further what advantage the smaller chuck on your threading jig is providing. I have been build and testing my homemade jig. With a 3/4 (19mm) 10 tip I did not see any droop from overhang using my Axminster SK100 (gear type). Am I missing something. I have only done a couple of boxes so far and they are working fine.

 

[Bill Alston]

My small SC2 chuck weights 505g, the Axminster SK100 weighs 1,773g. I’ve found it very much easier to set up my jig with the SC2 hanging out the front. It also must be putting less pressure on the jig. All in all I think a small chuck like the SC2 is more suited to the job. Obviously though you can use any chuck you like. One chuck I most definitely won’t be using is my Supernova 2 at 1,885g, but I may use the SC3 at 1200g. Sometimes it’s handy to keep both parts of a box mounted in a chuck to preserve concentricity so I’ll use the SC2 and SC3. All weights are chuck only without Top Jaws.

The SC2 can be had for as little as £74.99 inc shipping over here at the moment so a real bargain.

 

[robo hippy]

I have tried them once or twice, and that was after getting used to keyed chucks. For sure, not enough time to get used to them or the tricks you need to learn to use them. I think having a good spindle lock is essential. Some people do like them, but not for me since I have so many other keyed chucks.

robo hippy

 

[John K Jordan]

I think having a good spindle lock is essential.

Maybe the latest PM3520 has a better spindle lock built in but for anyone with a PM that doesn't, Powermatic makes a little "spindle lock tab" - just push the spindle lock button and slide the tab up, a one-handed operation. The spring pressure on the button holds the tab up and keeps the spindle locked. Push the button again and the tab drops to release the lock It would be easy to make instead of buy one.



It's saved me some hand/arm gyrations at times. Handy when removing a chuck with a wrench.

Just remember to release the lock before using the big red power switch!

JKJ

 

[Dave Landers]

Maybe the latest PM3520 has a better spindle lock built in but for anyone with a PM that doesn't, Powermatic makes a little "spindle lock tab" - just push the spindle lock button and slide the tab up, a one-handed operation. The spring pressure on the button holds the tab up and keeps the spindle locked. Push the button again and the tab drops to release the lock It would be easy to make instead of buy one.


It's saved me some hand/arm gyrations at times. Handy when removing a chuck with a wrench.

Just remember to release the lock before using the big red power switch!

JKJ

Another way is to remove one screw from the guard that surrounds the spindle lock, loosen the other, and you can swing the guard over the lock button. Helps to stick a washer or two under the guard on the remaining screw to get the right spacing.
Also seen folks make a bar with magnets to hold the lock button down.
And another using a toggle clamp to engage the button.

 

[Pat Wisniewski]

One use of a Tommy bar chuck is for a very large Cole jaw setup. Trying to turn an Allen/ hex key up against the back of one is sometimes an issue. Instead use one Tommy bar and rotate the Cole jaw in one direction or the other to tighten or loosen it. (Of course, that being said one ‘could’ just use a hex bit in a battery-powered drill/driver to avoid spinning an Allen/hex key)

 

[Michael Brown]

I have a contrasting view today... I have the one-way chuck for my Cole jaws and I love it (tommy bar version) The rest of my chucks use the 8mm allen key: SN2, rikon Z4 and titan III. Except for the blocks I threaded as sacrificial pieces, those are homemade.

 

[Michael Brown]

Maybe the latest PM3520 has a better spindle lock built in but for anyone with a PM that doesn't, Powermatic makes a little "spindle lock tab" - just push the spindle lock button and slide the tab up, a one-handed operation. The spring pressure on the button holds the tab up and keeps the spindle locked. Push the button again and the tab drops to release the lock It would be easy to make instead of buy one.

View attachment 73458

It's saved me some hand/arm gyrations at times. Handy when removing a chuck with a wrench.
View attachment 73457
Just remember to release the lock before using the big red power switch!

JKJ

My jet1640evs has that tab. I love it. I think a pressure switch with a blinking light would save me some tread on the belt and spare my shop the burning rubber smell though...

 

[Russell Nugent]

My jet1640evs has that tab. I love it. I think a pressure switch with a blinking light would save me some tread on the belt and spare my shop the burning rubber smell though...

one of the things i like with my nova saturn. When I do forget the lock it senses that it can't move and alerts you. No wear or damage for my forgetfulness.

 

[John K Jordan]

My jet1640evs has that tab. I love it. I think a pressure switch with a blinking light would save me some tread on the belt and spare my shop the burning rubber smell though...

If abilities include playing with wires and circuits it seems like it would be straightforward to rig up a small switch to the control circuit to the VFD to automatically disable the motor when the tab is in the spindle locking position. The control circuits on my 3520 and 1642 lathes are low voltage DC.

 

[Michael Brown]

If abilities include playing with wires and circuits it seems like it would be straightforward to rig up a small switch to the control circuit to the VFD to automatically disable the motor when the tab is in the spindle locking position. The control circuits on my 3520 and 1642 lathes are low voltage DC.

Agreed. I actually have the long throw contact switches from another project that acted as end stops that are nc/no already. NO for the led and NC for the enable should be just what the lathe doctor ordered.