The "newbie" advantage

[odie]

There is a certain distinguishable advantage that a newbie turner has over many experienced turners. I can recognize it, but explaining it is a more difficult proposition. There is a certain sense of "inquisitive hesitation" when a newbie pursues the perfect cut......but the big disadvantage he has, is his lack of knowledge concerning choice of tools, not-so-sharp tools, and combining these with presentation, best rpm, technique, and etc.

Somehow, the experienced turner will lose that "newbie" advantage, but gain knowledge on just about every other aspect of turning. Now, if that "inquisitive hesitation" can be combined with continual knowledge gained through experience, there is a distinct mental to physical connection that springboards a turner into a new realm of evermore perfect cuts.

The problem is the experienced turner loses his innocence, and since he's done this a zillion times before, his confidence puts that "inquisitive hesitation" behind him. It takes mental effort to identify and keep the newbie advantage, while further gaining knowledge through experience.

-o-

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Good subject. I'm still a newbie, but I recognize that I could already be in a rut in some areas. I have been using the 55 degree Ellsworth grind in both 5/8 and 1/2". More recently, I bought a Thompson gouge with the fingernail grind (is that the Jamieson grind?). I've been using the Thompson more, primarily to understand how to use it and what it is capable of. I'm trying to remove "I don't know, I've just always done it that way" from my vocabulary.

 

[Darryn Achall]

Couldn't agree more. Trying new things keeps me in that mode where a lack of confidence gets me to really think and pay attention to what is going on. When doing things that I've done many times before, I have to make an effort to remember that adjustments can still be made. Feel what is going on. Does it feel rough, average, or Zen? It does take some effort to not get caught up always following the same familiar procedure. Keep evolving!

All that said, it depends on your goals. If you intend to produce a volume of a certain product for a specified purpose, sticking with a particular expertise and not straying far will make you more productive.

 

[odie]

Does it feel rough, average, or Zen?

Now.....that sentence makes a lot of sense to me, Darryn. Your word choice of "Zen" speaks to me of what I sometimes speak of as....."spiritual turning".

....And when I think of it, "the newbie" advantage has a integral relationship with both Zen and spiritual turning......hmmmmm, that should make the gears turn for some of the readers of this forum.....

-o-

 

[Darryn Achall]

Now.....that sentence makes a lot of sense to me, Darryn. Your word choice of "Zen" speaks to me of what I sometimes speak of as....."spiritual turning".

....And when I think of it, "the newbie" advantage has a integral relationship with both Zen and spiritual turning......hmmmmm, that should make the gears turn for some of the readers of this forum.....

-o-

Makes your gears turn or your eyes roll! One vote for gears here.

 

[John Ames]

. I can recognize it, but explaining it is a more difficult proposition. There is a certain sense of "inquisitive hesitation" when a newbie pursues the perfect cut.....

Are you suggesting you can see it in the final product or just when you watch a new turner in action, making the cuts?

 

[Jerry Bennett]

The newbie is an important ingredient to advancement in any endeavor. They are open vessels. The well experienced have established ways that work for them. They usually teach theirs is the best way and many are not open to new ideas. The newbie will find other paths out of curiosity. God bless ‘em.

 

[odie]

Are you suggesting you can see it in the final product or just when you watch a new turner in action, making the cuts?

More so with remembering how it was with my own newbie experience.....and from that, making the assumption that most other turners have the same initial learning experience that I had. I feel quite certain that very few other turners have followed the same path that I did, and at some point later on in their own personal journeys, most have taken different forks in the road......but, there should be no reason to think that others can't pursue the same results that I've come to expect from myself.

This whole thread is the afterthought when I had a surface on some Brown Mallee end grain that I started initial sanding at 320gt......and, I began to contemplate the process I went through in order to have all the necessary components in achieving this fine of a tooled finish. @Jerry Bennett 's post above this one touches on the surface of how a newbie turner processes information, and I apply that sort of thinking to the more experienced turner, and his ability to continue receiving input directly from what can be observed while performing a difficult cut.

-o-

 

[John Ames]

More so with remembering how it was with my own newbie experience.....and from that, making the assumption that most other turners have the same initial learning experience that I had. I feel quite certain that very few other turners have followed the same path that I did, and at some point later on in their own personal journeys, most have taken different forks in the road......but, there should be no reason to think that others can't pursue the same results that I've come to expect from myself.

This whole thread is the afterthought when I had a surface on some Brown Mallee end grain that I started initial sanding at 320gt......and, I began to contemplate the process I went through in order to have all the necessary components in achieving this fine of a tooled finish. @Jerry Bennett 's post above this one touches on the surface of how a newbie turner processes information, and I apply that sort of thinking to the more experienced turner, and his ability to continue receiving input directly from what can be observed while performing a difficult cut.

-o-

I see what you’re getting at…. I’m self taught - never been to a meeting, never watched anyone else turn anything in person other than a buddy of mine who does pens.

Because of the nature of the horrible wood that I turn, I’m constantly in newbie mode….

“How the hell am I going to get this to work and not injure myself….?” It’s always new in some way.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Now.....that sentence makes a lot of sense to me, Darryn. Your word choice of "Zen" speaks to me of what I sometimes speak of as....."spiritual turning".

....And when I think of it, "the newbie" advantage has a integral relationship with both Zen and spiritual turning......hmmmmm, that should make the gears turn for some of the readers of this forum.....

-o-

I wonder if you can spark that newbie feeling by turning something you've never turned before. Go way outside your normal turnings.

 

[Russ Braun]

Segmenting keeps one young in turning, lots of new things to explore.

Regarding tool expertise, that’s a challenge in both segmenting and chunk. With segmenting, you have a lot of time away from the lathe so tool expertise takes more time (for me at least).

For me, the most noticeable newbie trait is the thought that there are all kinds of new forms out there that expert turners have not yet discovered. That’s a journey in itself breaking out of that novice level (don’t ask me how I know)!!

 

[DON FRANK]

I think there are multiple elements in the newbie situation. Often, "They don't know what they don't know but they are going to try anyway with whatever tools are in hand". They are often turning something they have seen someone else do . As they acquire a few skills they push theirselves to do something more difficult. Often the more difficult project requires some different tools but they are still using what they have. It reminds me of watching children with bandaids on their knees riding their first bikes. There is gonna be some pain along the way. Perhaps not physical pain but plenty of failed attempts but it's still freedom.
The "challenge" is what we are all really working towards. For some that challenge is making the finest presentation of the tools to get the best cut and reduce the amount of sanding (ie Odie's 320 example). For others finding the "perfect shaped form" is the challenge. All of these are simply journeys down the artistic trail. However, when you look back at your completed pieces over the last few months and they all look basically the same I think you have lost the path. If every bowl has the same basic shape and embellishments, or every hollow form you make has the same general shape, or everything you are burning or detailing looks repetitive, then perhaps you have wandered off the trail into the thickets and it's time to re-group. Many feel like they need a repeatable style that makes their work indentifilable. That is fine as long as they can find new shapes and forms to apply their style but at some point it can become stagnant.
The newbie advantage is that everything they see is a challenge. As a seasoned turner I think the way to find that freedom once again is to step out of the box we've made for ourselves and try something different. If you've always embellished the turning with beads or extra detailing don't do that. If the shapes that you always produce are similar, pick out something completely different. If you have never carved or textured or painted a piece please do. If you've always textured or burned or painted your pieces please don't. It's refreshing and sometimes scary to break the old habits but well worth it.
Sorry if I have veered off the path of the original post.

 

[Asher Langton]

There is a certain distinguishable advantage that a newbie turner has over many experienced turners. I can recognize it, but explaining it is a more difficult proposition. There is a certain sense of "inquisitive hesitation" when a newbie pursues the perfect cut......but the big disadvantage he has, is his lack of knowledge concerning choice of tools, not-so-sharp tools, and combining these with presentation, best rpm, technique, and etc.

Somehow, the experienced turner will lose that "newbie" advantage, but gain knowledge on just about every other aspect of turning. Now, if that "inquisitive hesitation" can be combined with continual knowledge gained through experience, there is a distinct mental to physical connection that springboards a turner into a new realm of evermore perfect cuts.

The problem is the experienced turner loses his innocence, and since he's done this a zillion times before, his confidence puts that "inquisitive hesitation" behind him. It takes mental effort to identify and keep the newbie advantage, while further gaining knowledge through experience.

-o-

One of my favorite pieces was one of my earliest, probably in the first 5 or so bowls I made. It was the only piece where my wife grabbed it when she saw it and said "ooh, I want that one", and it's still prominently displayed in the house. I barely knew what I was doing and a *lot* of sandpaper was involved, and the interior shows some torn grain I couldn't sand out. But I was really focused on form that day, despite my technical shortcomings, and it turned out very nice. Maybe it helped that I didn't yet know how to get a smooth, refined surface with a gouge or scraper and wasn't self-conscious about sanding the hell out of the piece until it looked the way I wanted?

 

[odie]

For me, the most noticeable newbie trait is the thought that there are all kinds of new forms out there that expert turners have not yet discovered. That’s a journey in itself breaking out of that novice level (don’t ask me how I know)!!

You know, Russ......when I read this ^^^^^, it occurred to me that I'm on the same page.....with one significant difference.......I continually pursue the same shapes*, but new methods to achieve them!!!!!

I'm on a targeted course to speed up the process, but NEVER allowing the pursuit of quality to wane.

*(Some of these "same shapes" refer to having components consisting of what I feel I've pioneered myself, and are the result of inventing some of my own woodturning tools......so, I don't have a sense of just blandly doing shapes that many other turners have done prior to my entry into the woodturning sphere.....)

-o-

 

[Alan Weinberg]

I don’t want to be a newbie. I’ve been at it 15 months, have devoured every woodturning book I could find, many YouTubes, this and a couple other forum sites, private classes, lessons from a mentor, and lathe time.

I want to get better and would love to be able to start sanding at 180! I’m still inquisitive—how could one not be—there’s so much to learn. It was intimidating—there are books on just how to attach a piece to a lathe, let alone turn a masterpiece.

But what I’ve learned to enjoy most is the journey—not the destination.

 

[odie]

One of my favorite pieces was one of my earliest, probably in the first 5 or so bowls I made. It was the only piece where my wife grabbed it when she saw it and said "ooh, I want that one", and it's still prominently displayed in the house. I barely knew what I was doing and a *lot* of sandpaper was involved, and the interior shows some torn grain I couldn't sand out. But I was really focused on form that day, despite my technical shortcomings, and it turned out very nice. Maybe it helped that I didn't yet know how to get a smooth, refined surface with a gouge or scraper and wasn't self-conscious about sanding the hell out of the piece until it looked the way I wanted?

Now I'm curious to see it, Asher......(even a quick cell phone photo will do...... ! )

-o-

 

[odie]

Sorry if I have veered off the path of the original post.

Well, yes, Don.....I think you have gone off on a tangent from what I was initially trying to explain.....but, I do get what you're saying here, and agree to the extent that your thoughts have relevance, too!

-o-