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Symposium 2012, Reflections....

john lucas said:
I you kidding, we just got shoes a few year ago. Still ahead of Kentucky though. (where's Jamie) 🙂
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to bring up the shoes thing. I have a BIL (brother-in-law) in Jackson, TN. We sent him shoes for Christmas. He wrote back and said that he appreciated the fine gift and was wondering if they came with instructions for their use. He said that they were pretty good for cracking hickory nuts, but still preferred using a vise. I wrote him back and also sent some socks. He wrote back thanking me and said that they were nice, but kinda small and could only hold about a pound of hickory nuts.

Jackson is sort of a famous place. Their big hero is a fellow by the name of Casey Jones. He is best known because he was a train engineer who drove his train into a ditch and got hisself kilt dead according to BIL. It's not everyday that a hero like that gets the recognition that he deserves.
 
They have a good turning club in Jackson. Last time I looked most had shoes but that may have just been to honor my presence. 🙂
The first time I demo'd down there Chuck filled up my car with lumber (he has his own mill). I had to leave the rear tail up to hold the 8 foot boards. Everything was fine until I got to the interstate. All of the sudden the wind sucked in from the back and pulled all the sawdust up to the dash and in my eyes. It was kind of like in Star Wars when the go into light speed with everything flying past. I had to stop the car and get the dust out of my eyes. It was very funny. On the next trip I dusted all the boards before loading them. I told Chuck I would bring the truck next time. Of course I could take the motorcycle and get really short boards.
 
If anybody ever takes a picture of you hauling wood in your car or on your motorcycle, it will wind up in one of those funny emails showing pictures of redneck problem solving that my octogenarian friends are always sending around. 😀

Maybe your car really does have warp drive. Is there a W on the shifter?
 
Here in Chicago two weeks ago, I saw a guy with a set of crutches across his motorcycle handlebars going North on I-90 (I didn't look but I'm sure he had Tenn plates). 😀
 
Bill Many years ago my wife and I used to haul the Canoe behind the motorcycle. I made a carriage for the rear and attached the front to the rack on the bike. She would drive the car with canoe to the river and I would ride the motorcycle. We would leave the bike downstream and then drive back to the put in. Canoe down stream, attach the canoe to the bike and ride back to the car. We did that for about a year before a cop finally stopped us one day and told us we couldn't do that anymore.
The Kayak I have now is lighter and I do have a one wheel trailer for the bicycle. Hmmmmm, maybe.
 
You Might Be A Redneck . .

john lucas said:
Bill Many years ago my wife and I used to haul the Canoe behind the motorcycle. I made a carriage for the rear and attached the front to the rack on the bike. She would drive the car with canoe to the river and I would ride the motorcycle. We would leave the bike downstream and then drive back to the put in. Canoe down stream, attach the canoe to the bike and ride back to the car. We did that for about a year before a cop finally stopped us one day and told us we couldn't do that anymore.
The Kayak I have now is lighter and I do have a one wheel trailer for the bicycle. Hmmmmm, maybe.
Click to expand...

"So ossifer, last I looked t'weren't agin the law to tow a boat."

"No sir, thet's right, but we do ask that you use a trailer."

Thanks, John. It's Monday and I needed that. 😀😀
 
A lot of good points already made in this thread. I attended a few symposiums before getting serious about this in 2006 (Portland) and have attended every one since then. It's always expensive but it's also always a lot of fun, and like many of the folks responding on this thread we are retired without a ton of extra cash.

So, what my wife and I do is make the symposium venue our annual vacation, fitting it into a couple of weeks of touring in the host state or nearby. To hold costs down we shop for airline tickets way ahead, we drive whenever we can (for us that's anywhere east of the Mississippi), and usually we can minimize hotel expenses by staying with friends. And that's one of the huge benefits of attending the national symposium: you can't help but meet people and make new friends. Who will, in turn, want to stay with you when they come to your part of the country. We enjoy having houseguests, so it's a win all around as far as we are concerned.

I'd also like to comment on the Instant Gallery, which for me is always a thrill, including the professional work and flashy show-off stuff. I doubt that anybody besides my wife even notices the little round brown boxes that I display. I don't give a hoot, I'm proud to be able to present my modest work in the same room as the field's giants. And I'm delighted to belong to an organization that allows amateur turners like me to participate in this way.

As for the symposium offerings themselves, of course your mileage may vary, but I'm trying to get better at turning my little boxes with lids, and in San Jose, as in St. Paul, Richmond and Hartford, I had to hop to attend all the rotations that were of direct and practical interest to me.
 
Maybe one of these days, I will be able to make one of the national symposiums. I was preparing to go to the one in Albuquerque, but a niece picked that weekend to get married without consulting me first. 😀

john lucas said:
.... The Kayak I have now is lighter and I do have a one wheel trailer for the bicycle. Hmmmmm, maybe.
Click to expand...

John, maybe you could wear the kayak like a bicycle helmet.
 
Well, this generated more comments than I thought it would.

I am starting to see the AAW as being more like Fine Woodworking. They are showing the high end/master class work being done. This represents the minority of turners out there. Being inspired is good for all levels, but the level is beyond what most turners will ever do, and not just because of skill levels, but also because it does not appeal to the majority of turners. The Symposium is also getting to that point. There are still a lot of demonstrations that interest most of the turners. Thing to me is that the event sites are still catering to the elite. I look at my local County Fair Grounds, and think that the event could be held there with no problems, except for maybe the banquet. Cost would be more affordable. Having the Hilton and Marriot hotels as our Guest hotels is expensive. I don't really think that is within range of most turners. Again, what can we do for sites that would make it more affordable for all turners.

I looked long and hard at the back cover of the last AAW Magazine and tried to figure out if there was any turning at all involved in making the piece. There were some colored lines that were circular, but that was the only indicator I could see. Maybe this is part of the old debate about 'is it art or utilitarian' thing. Where is the AAW headed in keeping the average turner involved? Maybe all basic instruction has been covered to the point where it is redundant to the point of being boring, but the questions on all the forums indicate otherwise.

robo hippy
 
Robo,

I don't think you are suggesting that we have beginners conduct most of the demonstrations.

I heard an interesting statistic used in a presentation on successful crafts people. Regardless of the craft it takes about 10,000 hours to excel and this closely matches the time spent in a 5 year apprenticeship.

Not many AAW members will put in the 10,000 hours and that is just fine.
However I think most want to learn from someone who has mastered the craft.

Regarding costs. I know lots of folks who go to the symposiums and stay at less expensive motels or camp grounds.



Al
 
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robo hippy said:
I looked long and hard at the back cover of the last AAW Magazine and tried to figure out if there was any turning at all involved in making the piece. There were some colored lines that were circular, but that was the only indicator I could see.
robo hippy
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you look again and consider the piece turned as a square bowl that is then cut in half, the cut faces mitered, and then rejoined, you might see more in the way of turning involved beyond those lines you mentioned.

County fair grounds are an interesting concept, but I suspect very few counties have the transportation facilities needed to stage an international symposium. While Wendy's might actually be better than that dry rubber chicken they plated in San Jose [and way waaaay, cheaper to boot], I'd have to question the viability of running the EOC Auction in their parking lot 😉.

Seems to me that local fairground venues would be great places to stage local and regional gatherings, sort of like multi-club meetings. Not sure, however, how much public outreach you'd generate away from a more major population center. It seems we also have to confront the problem of "draw." If we limit the professional topics and demonstrators, what will be the attraction to draw people from across the country or around the world to come to the venue? The IG is, of course, nice and inspiring, etm., but people aren't going to travel thousands of miles each year to see what I or you made, or buy a tool at a slight discount from the catalog price.

OTH, if the AAW is doing its job with the way things are being done, there will always be beginning turners asking those beginning questions you refer to on the forums. That those questions abound tells me that the AAW is fulfilling its mission statement by expanding involvement to more and more people. I suspect that the number of hobbyist and beginner members so far outweighs the professional membership that we might be hard-pressed to make a 10 to 1 ratio. If I'm correct, then an organization started by a few hundred professionals 25 years ago has shown a remarkable level of success in the way its been developed.

That's just my opinion, however. I've been wrong before, and will be again.🙂
 
Send me a proposal.

If you know of a potential symposium site that is available for a weekend between June 14 and July 10
Do a checklist against the criteria on the web site.
Remember this is a volunteer organization. If you do the leg work and it looks to me like your site has potential I'll get it to the board.
If you say look at fairgrounds or universities we probably won't because it appears to be a waste of time.

If you send a proposal that shows fairgrounds xyz. Has the hotel space, the airport, the function spaces and has an attractive cost
We will be sure to give it careful consideration

http://www.woodturner.org/sym/AAWSymposiumSiteSelection.pdf

Generally AAW is looking for sites that have 200 members within a 2 hour drive. ( I can help with this)
Or maybe you have a group we can hire in the area that knows how to set up lathes and rent/borrow air-compressors and vacuum systems etc.

Demo rooms need to seat minimum of. 100 maximum 250. With at least 10 seating over 150
we use 85% of theater seating as an estimate.
Trade show 40,000 sf. IG 30,000 sf. Banquet room for stage and seating for 18,000.



Al
 
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I would not want to see, or recommend demonstrations by beginners at the Symposium. Fine for local clubs, and you are right, I was not suggesting that. The AAW is a great teaching organization. The questions we should never stop asking is how can we reach more people.

I am curious as to how many people who are not turners come through the show. My guess would be very few. The instant gallery should be advertised under the 'Arts' section of local news papers and PBS stations. Here, there is a monthly 'Art Walk' that focus's on some featured gallery and/or artist/artists. Is this done on behalf of the AAW Symposium? Just news coverage would not reach a lot of this type of spectator.

Maybe we need to look for a site, and have our host hotel, one or two in the higher price range, and one more in the budget range. They ran shuttles in 2011 from the cheaper place, which I used.

Mark, with your explanation, I now can see some turning in it. Thanks.

This thread is doing what I hoped it would. Explain the AAW's position from the organizer, and getting feed back.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I am starting to see the AAW as being more like Fine Woodworking. They are showing the high end/master class work being done. This represents the minority of turners out there.

I looked long and hard at the back cover of the last AAW Magazine and tried to figure out if there was any turning at all involved in making the piece.
robo hippy
Click to expand...

Reed, yes, we do show high-end turnings, and will continue to do so, but we try to keep a balance and offer something for everyone (turned mushrooms, page 52, avoiding spiral catches, page 46), in the journal as well as at the symposium.

The piece on the back cover is turned (Mark thank you for pointing that out), albeit a contemporary approach. I saw Mark Gardner make one earlier this year at a local chapter demonstration. He's a young turner and I'm pleased to support his efforts as he tries to make a living as a professional. (BTW, Mark was a student of John Jordan's.)

As for expense of the symposium, that is true, with this past year probably being an all-time high. There is new leadership in the Administration, so I doubt that a San Jose-type, expensive location will happen again.

Al, Indianapolis would be ideal.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
 
Al,

A few years ago I went to a National dog show held at the Iowa State farigrounds in Des Moines Ia. I was very impressed with how clean and huge the facilties were. They have multiple buildings in every size needed. The dog show drew thousands of people, and they have the infastructure to support the AAW symposium which is far smaller. Being in Iowa it would be a farily central location and probaly quite affordable. Membership nearby is probably the only possible limitation. If I get a change in August I will look at the details if you could send me membership cluster map. Right now I'm trying to finish several pieces for the Turn-On-Chicago Symposium IG.

(I too am in favor of Indianapolis, central, cheaper and close to me is not a bad feature either 🙂)
 
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Betty I'll second Indianapolis, it's not far a drive. I'm sure you and Dick Gerard would love it. 🙂 Oh forgot about Clay and Jennifer.
 
In Din Nap'lis

I'm game! Could bop down to Bloom'ton and maybe see old professors and friends from . . . forty? [yikes!!] . . . years ago.
 
Indianapolis would be awesome. The indiana State Fairgrounds has buildings and meeting rooms of every possible size. The city has the infrastructure, airport, and all that. And, it is within 2-3 hours of chicago, Louisville, Cincinatti, Dayton. I guarantee there are far more than 200 AAW members within 2 hours.
 
Scott Austin said:
Indianapolis would be awesome. The indiana State Fairgrounds has buildings and meeting rooms of every possible size.
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Not only that, the Pepsi Coliseum at the fairgrounds is being rennovated, upgraded over the next couple of years. The problem with the Fairgrounds, though, is the lack of hotels. Just aren't any within walking distance and in fact, the drive to the fairgrounds is fairly long from just about any hotel. Plenty of parking once you get there, though.

The downtown with the convention center (enlarged and remodeled) is a fabulous area, alive with night life every night of the week. The restaurants don't shut down on Saturday or Sunday. There are two major museums within walking distance, a zoo close by, cultural trail, plenty of hotels, and so on. Louisville and Cincinnati are less than two-hour drive each. Chicago 3 1/2 hours. Dayton. Even St. Louis is close enough for an easy day's drive. Scott, I think you meant 2,000 AAW members within a very close distance to Indianapolis?

Al, are you taking notes?


Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
 
Betty Scarpino said:
Reed, yes, we do show high-end turnings, and will continue to do so, but we try to keep a balance and offer something for everyone (turned mushrooms, page 52, avoiding spiral catches, page 46), in the journal as well as at the symposium.

The piece on the back cover is turned (Mark thank you for pointing that out), albeit a contemporary approach. I saw Mark Gardner make one earlier this year at a local chapter demonstration. He's a young turner and I'm pleased to support his efforts as he tries to make a living as a professional. (BTW, Mark was a student of John Jordan's.)

As for expense of the symposium, that is true, with this past year probably being an all-time high. There is new leadership in the Administration, so I doubt that a San Jose-type, expensive location will happen again.

Al, Indianapolis would be ideal.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
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And he's co-teaching with me next week at Arrowmont. One of the best and most talented turners working. 🙂

John
 
Betty,
No notes.
Indianapolis was suggested by our conference coordinators for future consideration.
It probably fits best with 2016.

Sometime his year the board will be working on 2015 probably in the North east.
Indianapolis will get a good look.

Al
 
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Scott, I think you meant 2,000 AAW members within a very close distance to Indianapolis?



Thank You Betty. Yes, I did mean 2,000. Lost count of the zeros I guess.


You are doing a beautiful job with the AW magazine by the way. As a beginner I love seeing the very intricate professional work in there. I like to try to pick the prjects apart, and try to figure out how they did it. It motivates me to push myself and try new techniques. I figure that every professional was at one time a beginner. At one time David Elsworth and Richard Rafan didn't know how to chuck a piece of wood on the lathe, and with years of practice they have become legends in the art of woodturning. I also enjoy the beginner's advice, projects, and techniques you offer in the same issue to help me become a better turner. And as far as what I have read about too many pro's at the symposium, I beleive that is the place where you want to congregate the greatest of the great. Just my humble opinion on the 6 pages of posts I've been keeping up on for the past few days. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers.

Thanks
 
Scott Austin said:
I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers.
Click to expand...

No feathers ruffled here, in fact, thank you for your kind words about the journal.

Yes, everyone was a beginner at one point in time. I clearly remember turning my first bowl, which took me twelve hours to finish! I was so proud of that bowl and actually still am.

I just noticed you're from Indiana! I'll have to look up to see where English is.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
 
He's just South of you Betty. By the way, (just a friendly reminder) last time I checked you were coming to Turn On Chicago, but hadn't registered with Scott Barrett so we can plan for your meals etc.
 
I'm originally from Brownstown , Indiana a little southwest of Indianapolis. My great great grandfather started the Hamer mill in Spring mill state park. I'm not familiar with English In either but then I haven't lived the since I was 2. Visit a lot but haven't lived there.
 
May I pile on?

Betty, the AW journal looks better with each successive issue which is not an easy thing to pull off. More important than mere looks, perhaps, is that it is increasingly useful for things that interest me personally.

I do think that looks (layout, quality of images, etc) are very important in an often subtle way that draws in a persons interest even though many older club members that I have asked claim that they are only interested in content and wouldn't mind if it looked like it was done on a mimeograph machine. The same people will remark that the journal is "looking" better with each new issue. Go figure.

Thank you, most sincerely, for the very hard work and dedication to a sometimes thankless and always under-appreciated mission.

I eagerly anticipate the arrival of each issue (after the mailman has finished reading it, of course 😀).
 
English, IN is a little speck on the map in southern Indiana. It is in Crawford County, which is nothing more than a collection of specks on the map. But to be a little more descriptive, I am 45 miles west of Louisville, KY right off of I-64. Some bigger specks on the map that you might have heard of that are close would be Corydon (20 miles east), Jasper (30 miles west), and Paoli (20 miles north).

John,
That is interesting that your family built the grist mill at Spring Mill State Park. We took the kids there on a little day trip not long ago, and it still amazes me every time I see it. Not to mention all the other nifty crafts people they have there. Don't miss the opporitunity to see it all if you are in the area.
 
Below are maps of
AAW members as of June 2012
AAW Chapters 2011
AAW members within 75 miles of cities.
a tool to gauge local support is how many AAW member live in a 75 mile radius. if you have any experience with groups of any size you know about the 80/20 and 90/10 rules these are that 10-20% of the group does 80-90% of the work. If you are in a local club and more than 20% of your members actively run it that is unusual. To get 20-30 active local volunteers, you need a 150 AAW members to draw from. Phoenix is a little light but Tuscon is just out side.
Indianapolis is similar with lots of AAW members just out side.

The San Jose Population jumped by 139 from 2010 to 2012. I suspect the enthusiasm for AAW grew in the local chapters during that time.
The largest concentration of AAW members in the Baltimore/Washington/Northern Va. so the figure for Baltimore is about as big as it gets.

2012 San Jose 428 (was 289 in 2010)
2013 Tampa 210
2014 Phoenix 121
Baltimore 639 (about as big as it gets)
Indianapolis 125
Des Moines 57

-Al
 

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It might be a bit of a stretch for local support, but, how about Omaha, NE.
The center of the country needs revisiting someday.
A 300 mile circle covers a lot of members and chapters ( well some are just outside )
Their convention center is about the right size. 16 meeting rooms.
They are on major interstates, they have an airport served by major airlines.
Hotels, Art museum...

mark
 
Al,

The 80/20 and 90/10 rule definitely has to be considered. But there has never been one in the Chicagoland area? Plenty of appropriate venues to choose from with all the suburbs, hotels, airports tourist sites etc. There are three clubs and I think a forth is forming. Plus the Rockford club and several others a short distance away in southern Wisconsin. We also get some Peoria/Bloomington members come up once in awhile. The three Chicago land clubs alone make up about 250 members. Maybe there is a good reason why its never been there but I'm not aware of it?
 
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Thomas,

Chicago would be a great location. Lots of AAW members.

Generally big cities are too expensive. Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Miami,
Dallas, Houston, Boston. Often hard to get hotels for less than $200 a night.
And the conferences facilities are pricey too.

That said it may be possible to find a time where everything is priced right.
Al
 
Al,

That's actually why I mentioned the suburbs, the northern suburbs would be more central to not only our membership, but also for the various surrounding clubs, more convention center choices, and hotels can easily be found for between 60-120 a night.
 
Arlington, Texas midway between Dallas and Fort Worth might be affordable. We have a very nice convention center and lots of hotels. However, prices are rapidly spiraling upwards so it won't be many years before we are also too expensive. Fort Worth isn't nearly as expensive as Dallas. They might even be more affordable than Arlington.
 
arlington is great, i have kin in mansfield

just my 2 cents worth
 
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