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Steady rest ?

Richard Patrick

Richard Patrick

Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
67
Likes
366
Location
Stuart, FL
I’m really enjoying the ar of making hollow forms and could use some advice. I currently have the Trent Bosch stabilizer ( with 3/4 inch bars)and have been very pleased with it, but I’m looking to work on pieces a little larger. I’m thinking up to about 18 inches in depth. I’ve been looking at the system from Lyle Jamieson. My question is at what point does a stea rest become necessary? I realize there is no exact answer but looking for a general idea.
 
With my methods I prefer not to use a steady rest. It is a fix/Band-Aid for vibration I would rather prevent. The fix has unintended consequences, not good. One major weakness is using chucks. I NEVER use chucks for Hollow forms. A faceplate with lots of screws will be safe at any scale. Again I would rather use safe techniques and methods and prevent problems rather than think I can fix the weakness. Your goal of 18 inches deep is going to exceed the limits of most purchased systems. I choose to turn without vibration. You would need a boring bar near 1 1/2 inches in diameter to safely go that deep. No handle will handle that size hollowing. I have one but most folks that get into that scale build stronger systems to handle the stresses and weight involved. Call me if you want more details.
 
I also have the Bosch 3/4 stabilizer. With 3/4 bars I can get about 10 - 11" without too much vibration. With my custom 1 1/4" bar I can get a few inches deeper. I have the Carter Multirest for a steady rest and use it frequently. If you want to go really deep or large size hollow forms talk to Lyle. I got a lot of useful information on hollowing from his demonstrations and videos.
 
Lyle Jamieson said:
The fix has unintended consequences, not good.
Click to expand...
Lyle, Richard's question and your reply are timely for me, but I would benefit from some elaboration of your point about the "unintended consequences" of using a steady on a hollow form. Assuming one is using a faceplate (instead of a chuck), is there a reason not to use a steady? That is to say, if the piece is properly held at the headstock, what are the bad unintended consequences of also using a steady rest on a hollow form?

Gord
 
Richard, I've been moving up the ladder myself lately on larger hollow forms. Some 18-19 inch done and just finished a 24". Like you said, I don't have a set formula for when I use a steady rest but certainly anything over about 12". It can depend on the wood and shape a bit too. I have a small home made rig I've used for years that works well for pieces that size. You can find plans online and it's not a difficult build. A while back I invested in a Clark steady rest. It's a beast but easily handles the very large, wet and heavy pieces. I don't use faceplates except for very large pieces and I don't use a typical faceplate mount. It's a faceplate with large spikes sticking out and a spur drive for the center. I may reposition pieces as I see what things look like once I start shaping.
 
A steady rest is a worthwhile investment if you plan on turning hollow forms on your lathe. No fun taking risks with larger pieces that are a total loss if they come off the lathe while you are trying to make risky turning and finishing work without a steady rest. You can use more force with your lathe work when you have the steady rest in place, without one you will always question how much of a cut you can get away with.
 
I use chucks for all my hollow forms big and small and I have never lost a piece. Past practice was to use my John Jordan or Kelton hollowers but since acquiring the Hunter boring bars in conjunction to his hollowing set they have become my more used option. At the AAW Symposium in Chattanooga I purchased Steve Sinners 20" Center Steady for use with the longer hollow forms. Not that I had a problem with larger pieces but as Mike above stated why take risks and you can definitely take heavier cuts with less stress.
 
Steve Sinner likes the Munro hollow cutters. You get a bigger chip at a much slower lathe speed. So if speed bothers you, that's the way to go. What is an annoyance to me with the Munro cutter is the big curls are hard to get out of a small opening hollow form. You really have to get a hook hand tool to catch the curls and pull them out. Not an issue with the style Sinner makes with the large opening.
 
I use the Munro cutter head with carbide cupped cutters on a 3/4" bar. It's a love/hate relationship to use it and takes some practice but overall I like it for certain stages of the hollowing process. Since most of the openings where I use it are large I put a piece of thin wall PVC on the end of my vacuum hose and use it to suck them out. Clogs sometimes depending on the chips but overall works well enough. Some are large enough I can stick my hand in to drag them out.
 
Well you all have certainly given me plenty to think about. I really appreciate the different approaches and the details you have given. This can definitely be another one of those rabbit holes with all the different methods and tools available. I’m going to keep researching a bit and figure out what I think may work best for me. Thanks again!
 
Most of the replies are intended for green wood turning, if you do large segmented hollow forms you will be cutting through various species of hard dry woods, composites and various glues. This will put more forces on your cutting tools, face plates, chuck mounts, and steady rests. You are more likely to get a tool catch when turning these types of hollow forms.
 
Mike Johnson said:
Most of the replies are intended for green wood turning, if you do large segmented hollow forms you will be cutting through various species of hard dry woods, composites and various glues. This will put more forces on your cutting tools, face plates, chuck mounts, and steady rests. You are more likely to get a tool catch when turning these types of hollow forms.
Click to expand...
Mike, you make very good points. So far everything I’ve turned has been green wood. Haven’t yet delved into the world of segmented wood turning. Yet another rabbit hole to dive into…lol
 
I have a Carter multi rest that mostly hangs from the ceiling from its storage hook. I used it a lot early on, but after watching Lyle Jamieson’s videos and turning pieces in stages (leaving mass toward the drive) I have not needed it much.

With proper drive attachment a piece is not coming off the lathe unless there is a very bad catch or the wood is too unstable (cracks etc) to turn a large piece. Vibration can still be an issue, but a single wheel applying a bit of pressure (like a bowl steady) can take care of it. Lyle has great info available - well worth the time and $ to see his videos and talk talk to him on the phone.
 
I think we could use another term other then vibration alone. How about vibration = imbalance and "flexing" to define the effect of extending a hollow form too far out from the HS or a large bowl with a proportionally thin wall that flexes for even the lightest finish cuts.
 
Hollow-forms fall into two groups with very different requirements:
1) Radial grain (bowl guys call it face-grain) - I always use a Oneway 6" faceplate and diameters are 18" to 21" - heights are less - never need a steady-rest
2) Axial grain (tall vase design) - I always use a chuck and a steady rest (Keith Clarks)

As I go from log to lathe (never bandsaw), I start between centers with a 1.5" spur drive and Oneway live center - both are slightly recessed with forstner holes. Most pieces are very out of balance but never had a piece come off.
Good luck
 
What really strikes me in this conversation is the differences in techniques, in preferred tools and different methods. Two of the people that I consider icons of the art of wood turning are Lyle Jamieson and Steve Sinner. Both are innovators with a high degree of skill and talent, yet they have such different approaches. Stead rest/ no steady rest, chuck vs. face plate, and more.
I’m two years into my wood turning journey and still trying to cipher out the best way for me. But I get a tiny bit better with each piece that I turn and really enjoy the process of “getting there “. There’s so much talent packed into these forums ( yeah, I’m looking at you guys out there) , and I really appreciate the resources you all provide.
Keep making shavings and have fun.
 
Richard Patrick said:
What really strikes me in this conversation is the differences in techniques, in preferred tools and different methods. Two of the people that I consider icons of the art of wood turning are Lyle Jamieson and Steve Sinner. Both are innovators with a high degree of skill and talent, yet they have such different approaches. Stead rest/ no steady rest, chuck vs. face plate, and more.
I’m two years into my wood turning journey and still trying to cipher out the best way for me. But I get a tiny bit better with each piece that I turn and really enjoy the process of “getting there “. There’s so much talent packed into these forums ( yeah, I’m looking at you guys out there) , and I really appreciate the resources you all provide.
Keep making shavings and have fun.
Click to expand...
Exactly - newbies that have had some instruction typically remark “ well, that’s how I was shown to do it”. What the instructor did not tell them is “this is A way to do it”.

Make it a point to research different methods, tools, etc, and determine why they will or won’t work for you. Experimenting and determining why something did or did not work is knowledge gained.
 
Larry Mercier said:
I would suggest doing a lot of research before experimenting with tools. Multiple tools enable your billfold to become a lot thinner. Then, what happens to the tools that don't act the way you thought they would? I am writing this from sad experience.:)
Click to expand...
Doug Freeman said:
Make it a point to research different methods, tools, etc, and determine why they will or won’t work for you.
Click to expand...
That’s the point - do the research AND determine why it (tool or method) will help, before buying.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
I think we could use another term other then vibration alone. How about vibration = imbalance and "flexing" to define the effect of extending a hollow form too far out from the HS or a large bowl with a proportionally thin wall that flexes for even the lightest finish cuts.
Click to expand...

I agree that more words for the different kinds of vibrations would help, especially for us newbies.
Imbalance of wood
Flexing of the wood
Flexing of the tool if too far over rest
Plus, vibration from a problem with the machine. Like loose headstock lock, bad bearings, or just poor construction. Think Harbor Freight vs Robust.
 
Lyle Jamieson said:
With my methods I prefer not to use a steady rest. It is a fix/Band-Aid for vibration I would rather prevent. The fix has unintended consequences, not good. One major weakness is using chucks. I NEVER use chucks for Hollow forms. A faceplate with lots of screws will be safe at any scale. Again I would rather use safe techniques and methods and prevent problems rather than think I can fix the weakness. Your goal of 18 inches deep is going to exceed the limits of most purchased systems. I choose to turn without vibration. You would need a boring bar near 1 1/2 inches in diameter to safely go that deep. No handle will handle that size hollowing. I have one but most folks that get into that scale build stronger systems to handle the stresses and weight involved. Call me if you want more details.
Click to expand...
Sage advice!
 
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