Some dumb questions for the hollowformers…

[John Ames]

In 15 years of turning, I’ve never turned a hollow form of any sort nor have I even held one in my hands. I love to look at them and admire them (and those who turn them) greatly.

Questions from a complete ignoramus:

1. Is it possible to turn a hollow form without special equipment/tools? I would think a swan neck tool is the bare minimum for entry…

2. In the hollow form world, what is most desirable? Thinness of the wall i.e. less weight? Or overall shape? Is it “better” to be very thin with a mediocre shape, or great shape with thicker walls?

3. What is an acceptable thickness for the walls? And are the walls supposed to be uniform thickness? It appears to me, if the bottom is as thin as the walls, many pieces may be very prone to rolling. Is a weightier bottom deemed inappropriate to the form or perhaps crucial to the form?

4. How does one compensate for the amount of tool that is required to hang over the tool rest? I assume this is where captured bar systems are required….

5. Do the hollow forms that are created by cutting blanks in half, turning out the centers, then gluing them back together, less valuable (perceived value or actual value) than the ones bored out with a single hole?

6. Is there a general rule as to what defines a “hollow form” piece? How large can the entry hole be before it just becomes a bowl with a large undercut rim?

7. To my eye, the very best hollow forms are the ones with no embellishments and I rarely see embellishment on the traditional hollow forms. Whether tall rocket shaped or low sitting flying saucer shapes, it’s rare to see turquoise, stone. Milliput, etc features…. Is this because the walls are so thin, or is it rather frowned upon?

8. For those who sell, is there a higher end market for the hollow forms? (I would hope so). How has selling hollow forms compared to your sales of “regular” bowls/platters?

Thank you for indulging me…. I look forward to hearing from you all.

 

[Bill Blasic]

1. Yes and a swan neck tool would definitely help but dependent on the size of the hole you're hollowing through is what controls the tools in use.
2. There is no doubt that shape is foremost and then thickness.
3. The thickness is up to the individual, myself I like thinner but that is not a requirement. Some folks hollow through the bottom. I have never had a problem with the piece being unsteady due to a thin bottom.
4. The easy way it to use hollowing system but there are other ways, it requires strength to hold the hollowing tool level and not turn left in the cut.
5. I have never seen or tried that but it is a way to do it (sounds more tedious and more work).
6. For me I like the smallest hole possible but I would think you could call a vase a hollow form if it was tall (My thought).
7. There is nothing anymore that is frowned upon. You deal with the wood as thing arise and do what is necessary in your mind to complete it to your satisfaction.
8. My hollow forms are priced at a higher level than bowls and such but that does not mean it will sell around here. My area does not have regular high spenders and many a bowl will sell before a hollow form.
Hopes this helps a little.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I've only made a few over the years, and this next statement is subjective, but generally when the top opening are starts to (or more) close in again from the overall diameter, it starts to be thought of as a hollow form.

Crude examples- a basketball with a 2" hole cut out of it- hollow form. A basketball cut in two on its hemisphere- open form (in this case, 2 rubber bowls). A basketball cut in two on its 45th parallel... I'd still call the large section a hollow form (with the smaller section being a candy dish!), but others may debate that.

 

[hockenbery]

In the hollow form world, what is most desirable? Thinness of the wall i.e. less weight? Or overall shape? Is it “better” to be very thin with a mediocre shape, or great shape with thicker walls?

Shape shape shape shape. Surface surface surface. Wall needs to be thin enough and even enough to let the wood dry without cracking

Do the hollow forms that are created by cutting blanks in half, turning out the centers, then gluing them back together, less valuable (perceived value or actual value) than the ones bored out with a single hole?

Only if the glue joint is done poorly.

For those who sell, is there a higher end market for the hollow forms? (I would hope so). How has selling hollow forms compared to your sales of “regular” bowls/platters?

Good looking hollow forms sell for higher prices and in the right market outsell bowls.

To my eye, the very best hollow forms are the ones with no embellishments and I rarely see embellishment on the traditional hollow forms. Whether tall rocket shaped or low sitting flying saucer shapes, it’s rare to see turquoise, stone. Milliput, etc features…. Is this because the walls are so thin, or is it rather frowned upon?

You need to visit an AAW instant gallery.
Check out work by Don Derry, Paul Fennel, Trent Bosch, Avelino Samuel, Christian Burchard, and many many others.

 

[hockenbery]

Is it possible to turn a hollow form without special equipment/tools? I would think a swan neck tool is the bare minimum for entry

Here is a link to a seed jar hollow form. A split turning you can probably make with tool you have.
I use a bowl gouges, spindle gouge, square nosed scraper, and a pyramid point tool.

Turning a seed jar - split hollow form

I turned one of these for after dinner entertainment at SWAT-2017 along with Trent Bosch. Trent turned a traditional hollow form in an informal race and finished first. A fun time. Since then I have done several of these in club demos and also did a club workshop where students turned them...

www.aawforum.org

 

[Ed Weingarden]

1. Special equipment/tools - yes. At a minimum, you'll need hand held tools that are either scrapers, or cup shaped carbide cutters. You will be somewhat limited as to the depth of the hf with hand held tools. For deeper hf's, some form of a captured system is beneficial.

2. IMO, form/shape supersedes all else. You can have a beautiful piece of wood, but if the shape/proportions are not pleasing to the eye, you will not appreciate the beauty of the wood.

3. Wall thickness - not too thick, but not too thin : ). My twice turned hf's usually have a finished wall thickness of 3/16" - 1/4". Some turners probably go thinner, while others stop at a thicker wall. I leave the bottom, and transition from the bottom to the side wall thicker than the rest of the hf. The additional weight at the bottom provides for some added stability, especially with a tall piece.

4. As you go deeper, a boring bar with a larger diameter will offer more stiffness, and absorb more of the vibration. In my experience, a 3/4" bar gets me to about 10". My 1 1/8" bar gets me to about 15". Beyond that, I use a setup from Advanced Lathe Tools...the boring bar is two pieces of 1 1/8" bars welded together, side by side (except for the first 14" which is a single bar).

5. ? Haven't done those.

6. One definition is a vessel in which the opening is smaller than the largest diameter of the piece.

7. Sometimes the wood speaks for itself and doesn't need any surface embellishments. In contrast, some wood is just plain vanilla and needs something to make it interesting. If you search or look in the photo gallery, you will see many beautiful pieces with carving, texturing, piercing, airbrushing, inlays, etc...the sky is the limit.

8. There are many variables with respect to sales/market (e.g., location, juried vs none juried shows...).

 

[Doug Freeman]

1. Is it possible to turn a hollow form without special equipment/tools? I would think a swan neck tool is the bare minimum for entry…

Yes, @hockenbery provides a great example. For one piece hf's, a straight and bent hollowing tool are needed. I made a lot my own tools and purchased cutters.

2. In the hollow form world, what is most desirable? Thinness of the wall i.e. less weight? Or overall shape? Is it “better” to be very thin with a mediocre shape, or great shape with thicker walls?

Great shape, and thinner walls shoe more skill IMO. Lightness seems to impress turners and others.

3. What is an acceptable thickness for the walls? And are the walls supposed to be uniform thickness? It appears to me, if the bottom is as thin as the walls, many pieces may be very prone to rolling. Is a weightier bottom deemed inappropriate to the form or perhaps crucial to the form?

As thin as you want, ie translucent with light inside, up to ~3/8" at ~15" dia. Depends on the material and, shape, and resulting structural integrity. Uniform thickness, the Depending on the shape of the bottom it may be a bit thicker. Creating a bit of heft at the bottom can help stabilize the piece resting on the display surface.

4. How does one compensate for the amount of tool that is required to hang over the tool rest? I assume this is where captured bar systems are required….

Hand held - handle length. With a long enough handle, one can go very deep. Hollowing can take a while, depending on the size etc., and can get a little boring. A lapse in concentration can result in a destroyed piece and possible injury - this is why I went to a captured system for more than a 3-4 inches off the tool rest. It removed a heck of a lot of mental stress and made hollowing a lot more fun, and as a hobby it should be fun.

5. Do the hollow forms that are created by cutting blanks in half, turning out the centers, then gluing them back together, less valuable (perceived value or actual value) than the ones bored out with a single hole?

To non-turners, doesn't matter. Non-turners typically don't care about the process, though many seem impressed that larger pieces were done through a small hole. To some turners it does matter.

6. Is there a general rule as to what defines a “hollow form” piece? How large can the entry hole be before it just becomes a bowl with a large undercut rim?

Not as far as I know. I would say if the form can be done with a gouge its a bowl, after the rim gets in the way and a "hollowing tool" is required, its a hf.

7. To my eye, the very best hollow forms are the ones with no embellishments and I rarely see embellishment on the traditional hollow forms. Whether tall rocket shaped or low sitting flying saucer shapes, it’s rare to see turquoise, stone. Milliput, etc features…. Is this because the walls are so thin, or is it rather frowned upon?

Nothing is frowned upon. I used to fill defect areas, now I tend to leave as is. Structural integrity plays a role. Defect holes show wall thickness, which relates to uniformity. In the end its all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Dave Landers]

Lots of questions (good questions). My suggestion would be to ask around your local club and see if you can find a willing mentor.

Or better - take a class (I can recommend a Trent Bosch class from personal experience, but he's not the only good teacher out there). That will give you lots of good info, an opportunity to ask questions, and the ability to try things using someone else's investment in tools.

I started making hollow forms for the freedom of expression. I feel somewhat limited by bowls - constrained by the basic requirement that they be bowl-like. I find more opportunities to explore a wider range of form and shape in hollow forms. And I find them fun to make.

But hollow forms are another turning-tool vortex. So many special tools and "systems" to buy!

 

[John Ames]

Thank you all for the depth of the replies…. Very interesting stuff! I have some ideas floating around in my head that I think might be interesting or unique and understanding the “rules” is very important to me.

But hollow forms are another turning-tool vortex. So many special tools and "systems" to buy!

This is what I’m afraid of!!!

 

[Dave Landers]

This is what I’m afraid of!!!

Which is honestly why I recommend finding a mentor or class - make sure hollow forms are something you want to do before investing in the tools.

And there are very few actual "rules" (in my opinion). It's generally called a hollow form if it has an opening smaller than the max diameter. But you can make something with a small opening and call it a bowl (or Fred or Wilma, etc). It's your creation, so your decision. I kinda figure if it looks like you would want to put flowers in it, it's probably a hollow form. If you want to put keepsakes in it and it has a lid, it's a box. Want to put other things in it, it's probably a bowl.

You can start with one or two home-made tools - get some steel bar and fashion a place on the end for a cutter - like tap a hole for a round carbide cutter. That's what I did - discovered I liked hollow forms (and discovered that my home-made tools weren't going to stand up to my needs). The thickness of the bar (generally) determines how far it can overhang the tool rest. A 3/4" round bar of decent steel will probably get you to almost 12" depth - thinner works for smaller forms.

With a smallish opening that people can't stick their fingers too far into, wall thickness is unimportant (except for wood drying considerations) and only determines the overall weight of the piece, thus how it feels to hold it. I usually aim for something between 1/8" and 1/4", depending on what I'm trying to achieve with the piece. The other thing about wall thickness is consistency - too much variation or ridges etc can promote uneven wood movement and may lead to cracks. Basically wall thickness for a hollow form has the same sort of considerations like a bowl or any wood object.

Nobody really cares how you get there - split turned, turned from the bottom, whatever - as long as you make something nice. Well, somebody may complain - but they'd be a woodturner purist of some sort and ain't gonna buy anything anyway.

As far as sales go, I feel like hollow forms are in a bit of a different category than bowls. People naturally recognize bowls as"useful" (for salad, fruit, popcorn, keys, etc). Hollow forms are usually mainly decoration. So there's a "craft/utility" vs "art" distinction being made by your customer. While the two can co-exist on the same sales table, I feel like they attract a different set of buyers.

OK, that's enough of my opinions... good luck with your journey!

 

[hockenbery]

Thank you all for the depth of the replies…. Very interesting stuff! I have some ideas floating around in my head that I think might be interesting or unique and understanding the “rules” is very important to me.

@Dave Landers has made some great suggestions.
A class with Trent Bosch would be terrific if you can swing a trip to Fort Collins. Trent is a terrific teacher.
Closer to home, probably can hook up with a local mentor through the clubs.

You can get into some serious hollowing for about $25
You can do great hollow forms with Ellsworth hollowing tools. These are easy to make.
Two. 1/2” or 5/8” steel bars(a 3ft bar cut in half) a couple of 3/16 cutter bits, CA glue and wood for the handles.
I used these tools for a while. You can make usable calipers from bent wire.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Is there a general rule as to what defines a “hollow form” piece?

Well, there's the M&M's test. Could I scoop or spoon out M&M's without lifting the piece, or would I have to pick it up and shake the M&M's out.

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

In the hollow form world, what is most desirable? Thinness of the wall i.e. less weight? Or overall shape? Is it “better” to be very thin with a mediocre shape, or great shape with thicker walls?

Agree with the others that shape is paramount. Second most important IMO is weight (which mostly correlates with wall thickness). The lighter, the better as far as I’m concerned. I love it when someone picks up a piece and is surprised at how light it is.

How does one compensate for the amount of tool that is required to hang over the tool rest? I assume this is where captured bar systems are required….

Long handle is key as it gives you the proper leverage. I strongly recommend doing a few freehand before falling back to a capture system. You’ll learn a ton from feeling that direct, immediate feedback from the piece and tool.

Do the hollow forms that are created by cutting blanks in half, turning out the centers, then gluing them back together, less valuable (perceived value or actual value) than the ones bored out with a single hole?

The thought of turning two bowls, gluing them together and calling it a hollow form makes me die inside a little. For me, the difficulty of hollowing through a tiny open is what makes a hollow form special.

For those who sell, is there a higher end market for the hollow forms? (I would hope so). How has selling hollow forms compared to your sales of “regular” bowls/platters?

In my experience they def command a higher price point, but that, combined with their non-utilitarian nature, makes them more difficult to sell than bowls, scoops, etc.

 

[Rick Moreton]

If you are unsure if it is something you want to invest in, you could start with small hollow forms. Find an extra hex key and grind it into a mini swan neck scraper.

 

[R Henrickson]

The thought of turning two bowls, gluing them together and calling it a hollow form makes me die inside a little. For me, the difficulty of hollowing through a tiny open is what makes a hollow form special.

Does the buyer care? Hollowing through a small hole is like the pop fit for boxes -- prized by woodturners but buyers -- especially *users* -- tend to prefer being able to open the box one-handed. An elegant form is key -- how it was arrived at is "inside baseball".

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

Does the buyer care? Hollowing through a small hole is like the pop fit for boxes -- prized by woodturners but buyers -- especially *users* -- tend to prefer being able to open the box one-handed. An elegant form is key -- how it was arrived at is "inside baseball".

I get the point, though I think this is a bit of a false equivalency. The box example is about utility, whereas this is more a question of what is considered a hollow form (I wouldn’t consider two bowls glued together to be a hollow form, personally). I’d also argue that a lot of buyers, especially those shopping on the higher end of the price spectrum, would recognize and be sensitive to the difference. That said, if you feel good about a piece and someone is willing to buy it, everything else is a technicality.

 

[hockenbery]

I get the point, though I think this is a bit of a false equivalency. The box example is about utility, whereas this is more a question of what is considered a hollow form (I wouldn’t consider two bowls glued together to be a hollow form, personally). I’d also argue that a lot of buyers, especially those shopping on the higher end of the price spectrum, would recognize and be sensitive to the difference. That said, if you feel good about a piece and someone is willing to buy it, everything else is a technicality.

I appreciate your point of view.
You probably know there are a lot of two piece glued together forms in high end collections.
John Jordan and Clay Foster are two makers who come to mind. I’ve watched them both make two piece forms on several occasions. I miss John.

I’ve been invited to demo 3 styles of hollowforms at regional symposiums and the AAW. Maybe two

Seed jars:
These aren’t high end works of art but come close to being “two bowls glued together.”
People like them


Suspended spherical forms
This is a one piece hollow form. People like these too


Natural edge hollow forms- one piece- fairly wide opening

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

You probably know there are a lot of two piece glued together forms in high end collections.

Very interesting; I didn’t realize this was such a common practice. I’d been thinking of a two piece form as trying to “fake” the appearance of a conventional hollow form, but I suppose it’s a just a different category of hollow form, with its own aesthetic virtues and technical difficulties. Guess I’m more of a traditionalist when it comes to the hollow forms I like to make, so get a bit defensive about how we define the category. Good to hear different perspectives, though, as it gets me thinking about new possibilities.

3 styles of hollowforms

These are all great, but that suspended form is incredible! It’s fun to try to reverse engineer how you were able to turn the sphere and still keep the carved sections. I’d love to see that demo!

 

[Randy Anderson]

Lots of wise and valid inputs here so won't repeat them but, my own experience (and maybe some encouragement for John) is likely like others. Started out with bowls, made and sold tons of them over the years and then decided to "try" making a vase. I was hooked and since then that's my primary focus. When I see a log on the side of the road now my first reaction is can I get a good hollow form out of it. If not, then maybe a bowl. It pains me to see guys gather mountains of great stock and immediately split it all into bowl blanks. I still make enough bowls to display for a market event but my focus is on hollow forms, large and small. The design and form options plus the flexibility of size and shape make them much more interesting to me. They also sell better for me.

Yes, the tools investment is an obstacle. My advice, start with a small setup. Either captured or articulated, and get the hang of the entire process and limitations of your setup. For small pieces I dry them the same as I do once turned bowls - paper bags. For large pieces it's a completely different animal for drying but - start small. Just like with bowls there are numerous "right" ways to go about making, drying and finishing them. Lots of great artists here that can help you at each decision point on how to get started.

 

[hockenbery]

These are all great, but that suspended form is incredible! It’s fun to try to reverse engineer how you were able to turn the sphere and still keep the carved sections. I’d love to see that demo!

Thanks, Fun and challenging
I did a post on these in the tips section
They are Soren Berger scoops with a second handle scaled up.
They all came from watching a Soren Berger scoop demo

I made an original shape but it’s just a Soren Berger scoop on steroids
Here is my journey
Soren Berger scoop ….tiny handles Wings. Feet



Links to tips

Suspended spherical forms

These forms have a hollow ball in the middle and wings or legs extending out on the sides. I hollow the ball held in a vacuum Chuck. I originated these forms in 2004 after contemplating making a two handled Soren Berger scoop. While I probably would not have gotten there without seeing...

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[Timothy White]

The deeper you hollow the larger the diameter of the bar.

 

[hughie]

As someone who exclusively does hollow vessels and who believes there are no dumb questions , this is a very good question to help clear the air on the aspects of hollowing.

1 The simplest hollowing tool I know and use is the Öland type of hollowing tool, adding a goose neck to it would make it most ideal.
2 Shape and form apply to all that we turn, albeit a hollow form or bowls and platters, bad form, bad finish and bad design can ruin any fancy chunk of wood.
3 Wall thickness much depends here on what if being turned. In my case, the wall thickness is there to accommodate the carving. As for the base, it's often left thicker to give a tall piece stability and longevity, I like the idea that some of my pieces will be around long after I am gone.
4 Compensation for depth is either support or larger diameter hollower shafts. There are some shielded type cup cutters that will allow for a lesser cut, but at the end of the day this has its limits.
5 Gluing up segments other than segmented pieces in the market I deal in would lessen the value of hollow vessel. But I think its a case of horses for courses, each market has its variables.
6 Small entry, vase or hollow forms it's the maker's call, you made you decide.
7 Yup, you're the maker, it is what the maker determines it is.
8 Hollow vessels command a higher price as they are often perceived to be art, certainly the type I normally do are higher price and I place them in suitable venues that cater for such buyers.

 

[John Ames]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies…

Another question has come to me regarding the hollow form process… I hope I can articulate this clearly enough.

I’ve been studying the design of the various hollow form “rigs” that are for sale, (and/or home made) and there seems to be two types: The captured bar systems (Jamieson) and the articulated type (Simple, and Bosch).

I’ve noticed that during use, they all move the cutter in two ways to attack the wood: In/Out and sweeping Left/Right

Regular bowl turners need to have to more axes to adjust the tool… we “tilt” the handle/cutting edge Up/Down and also rotate or twist the tool to produce an optimal cutting angle for wherever we are in the cut.

For those who use a “system” or “rig” have you ever wished you could rotate/twist the cutter, or drop/raise the handle during a cut?

Or is In/Out and sweeping Left/Right all you ever need?

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

A captured system, set up correctly, can not get a catch. Big advantage over hand held tools. And the laser means you are no longer working blind in there, can't put a laser on a hand held boring bar.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

A captured system, set up correctly, can not get a catch.

So, when one does what would have caused a catch, what happens? If the energy is not transferred to the tool, does it just rip the piece off the tenon?

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

Yes, LOTS of bad things can happen when you get a catch in hollow forms. Very dangerous. Blow the turned piece up, rip your arm off (Slightly exaggerated), but you can get hurt in a number of ways. Just the fear of it happening is stifling. Hollow form turning is a finesse thing not a strength thing, you don't have to work hard. And there is a very short learning curve with a captured system.

 

[hockenbery]

captured system, set up correctly, can not get a catch. Big advantage over hand held tools. And the laser means you are no longer working blind in there, can't put a laser on a hand held boring bar.

In using the Jamieson system for about 25 years. You can’t get a catch when it is set up properly.
You also cannot go through the sidewall unexpectedly when you add a laser or video

o, when one does what would have caused a catch, what happens? If the energy is not transferred to the tool, does it just rip the piece off the tenon?

A catch happens when the wood can drive onto the tool. When that happens the tool doesn’t cut its way out of the catch and the wood drives further onto the tool. In lucky cases the cutter is freed by breaking out a chunk of wood. In other cases the piece comes apart. Often the downward force on the caught tool tip translates to an upward force on the tool handle. Lots of folks have gotten shoulder injuries from catches.


3 common ways to get a catch
Bar level cutter tilted up bevel contact wood - catch
Bar tilted down cutter level bevel can contact the wood - catch
Bar tilted down cutter tilted down bar the cuttin toward the rim the back edge of the cutter bevel contacts the wood- catch

In hand hollowing it is important to work in sections and not leave bumps inside. We aren’t perfect. Hitting a bump we can loose control of the tool which can bounce around inside a bit and can create a catch situation.


Consider taking a class or working with ay mentor.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies…

Another question has come to me regarding the hollow form process… I hope I can articulate this clearly enough.

I’ve been studying the design of the various hollow form “rigs” that are for sale, (and/or home made) and there seems to be two types: The captured bar systems (Jamieson) and the articulated type (Simple, and Bosch).

I’ve noticed that during use, they all move the cutter in two ways to attack the wood: In/Out and sweeping Left/Right

Regular bowl turners need to have to more axes to adjust the tool… we “tilt” the handle/cutting edge Up/Down and also rotate or twist the tool to produce an optimal cutting angle for wherever we are in the cut.

For those who use a “system” or “rig” have you ever wished you could rotate/twist the cutter, or drop/raise the handle during a cut?

Or is In/Out and sweeping Left/Right all you ever need?

Your observation is correct, although I would say that the hollowing systems generally have 3 motions, In/Out, yaw L & R and translate L & R. These devices are designed to be used with tools that need to be held at zero pitch with zero roll (or at least a fixed roll) and at a fixed altitude. For example, various scrapers and many carbide tools. The beauty of the hollowing rigs is that they keep these tools in their proper orientation.

The exception to the above is the Trent Bosch Stabilizer, which does allow the operator to rotate the tool shaft.

I wouldn't describe the Bosch as an articulated arm (like the Simple or Elbow), nor as a captured bar. It's a hybrid of the two.

 

[Paul Lajoie]

I wouldn't describe the Bosch as an articulated arm (like the Simple or Elbow), nor as a captured bar. It's a hybrid of the two.

I disagree, the Bosch system has articulating joints as do The Simple and the Elbo. So I consider it an articulating system. MHO.

The exception to the above is the Trent Bosch Stabilizer, which does allow the operator to rotate the tool shaft.

The Elbo system also allows user to rotate the boring bar, and I’m gonna guess the Simple system also does. Unless the boring bar has a flat milled into it for grub screw securing.

Paul

 

[Doug Freeman]

A captured system, set up correctly, can not get a catch. Big advantage over hand held tools. And the laser means you are no longer working blind in there, can't put a laser on a hand held boring bar.

Been using Lyle’s system for ~6 yrs. I would add “used correctly” to the set up correctly. I have gotten catches using the system, when I have left a good size transition/bump and just got too heavy of a chip load on the cutter, and/or gotten in too big of a hurry. Also, the 45deg cupped carbide cutter will self feed if you cut in the wrong direction.

Laser - it can shift while in use, and needs to checked periodically. If not you can cut through. I do have a laser attachment I use with hand held, from Ron Browns Best Tools, but its 10-12 yrs olc and Im not sure it is available anymore.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Elbo system also allows user to rotate the boring bar, and I’m gonna guess the Simple system also does. Unless the boring bar has a flat milled into it for grub screw securing.

While you can mount the tool in a Simple with some degree of roll, you have to secure the tool with set screws, so that rolled position is fixed. The Bosch allows the tool to be rolled left or right while in use. I would think the Elbow is similar to the Simple.

 

[Paul Lajoie]

The Bosch allows the tool to be rolled left or right while in use

Are you saying the boring bar does have some rotation in normal turning? The cutter is not necessarily locked in a fixed position at all times?
Paul

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Yes, that is correct. I have not used the Bosch Stabilizer, but I saw Trent using it a demonstration at the Ohio symposium several years ago.

 

[Paul Lajoie]

I didn’t know that

 

[Hugh]

Shape, shape, shape.
Learn to hollow with hand tools. Then, If you like it, move on to a hollowing system.
Go order David Ellsworth's book on Woodturning. Most of your questions would be answered there. It is a book that you will want to go back to on occasion.
He even has a chapter about making hollowing tools.

 

[Dave Landers]

Are you saying the boring bar does have some rotation in normal turning? The cutter is not necessarily locked in a fixed position at all times?
Paul

With Trent's system, the tool is locked in place with a set screw. Can be set at whatever rotation you want, which I think is only really useful for teardrop cutters to get a negative rake.
I guess you could leave the set screws loose, but I wouldn't...

 

[hughie]

I have had a couple of hollowing systems, just found them a bit cumbersome. So now I'm back to hand held as it were, I use a couple of proprietary shielded hollowers the WunderKut 10 by Rolly Munro and a Woodcut Pro-Forme both from NZ plus several other shop made hollowers shielded with carbide cup cutters.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have both Monster Hollowing Systems (Articulating and Captured) along with Alan Trout's Pro Rail Hollowing System. For years I used the tools of John Jordan and the Kelton Hollowers. These are basically scrapers and I would set the angle that the tool contacted the wood. This angle is locked in and not moveable until it is opened and adjusted if need be. Now my go to tools for hollowing are the Hunter carbide tools. I no longer scrape as these tools cut and they cut fast. Benefits are a whole lot less noise and a superior finish. When going deep the Hunter boring bars in conjunction with his tools allows very deep access and again cutting not scraping. I have never had a catch that I know of while hollowing but that is probably due to hollowing itself as you do not actually see the tool (I use a laser, tried the screen but that was not for me) and at the speeds I hollow I always pay attention.

 

[Bernie Hrytzak]

I have both Monster Hollowing Systems (Articulating and Captured) along with Alan Trout's Pro Rail Hollowing System. For years I used the tools of John Jordan and the Kelton Hollowers. These are basically scrapers and I would set the angle that the tool contacted the wood. This angle is locked in and not moveable until it is opened and adjusted if need be. Now my go to tools for hollowing are the Hunter carbide tools. I no longer scrape as these tools cut and they cut fast. Benefits are a whole lot less noise and a superior finish. When going deep the Hunter boring bars in conjunction with his tools allows very deep access and again cutting not scraping. I have never had a catch that I know of while hollowing but that is probably due to hollowing itself as you do not actually see the tool (I use a laser, tried the screen but that was not for me) and at the speeds I hollow I always pay attention.

I tend to turn while hollowing at low speeds , 500-800 rpm, what speed do use use Bill?

 

[Bill Alston]

Just to add something to the mix.

You can turn “hollow forms” with a very small opening and without any special tools.
You just turn the item in two parts and join them together after turning. You can hide the join with a trio of turned rings or some other form of embellishment. Grain matching can be an issue though in figured wood. A classic example would be basket illusion type vase.