Sharpening problem

[John Torchick]

I have a set of HF beginner's HSS tools, Rikon low speed grinder, and the Wolverine sharpening jig. My grandson and I were working on a mini baseball bat for his older cousin. While sharpening the 3/4 inch roughing gouge, I held it up to the light and I noticed that one side of the grind was longer than the other. I held the short side on the wheel a bit longer and evened it up but there is still a very small difference. Your suggestions are most welcome for this new KOTL (new kid on the lathe).
Note: I pull out the jig so that the bevel rests square on the stone. I turn on the grinder and roll the gouge from side to side.
BTW, the baseball bat turned out real good. It was a soft wood and didn't have a real good finish on the wood. We spray painted part of it and I noticed the grain raised a bit. Will sand it a bit and apply another coat or two or three. Will show it when done.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Are you using a platform while sharpening?

 

[odie]

Even with the jig.....either platform, or v-arm, there always is a bit of "eye balling" it to get the grind shape you want. There is no secret, other than learning to see the grind take shape, as you grind.

-----odie-----

 

[Ron Solfest]

You’ll get better with practice. With that said, I wouldn’t worry about it too much in the meantime as the roughing gouge is probably the least important to get even. If it’s sharp it will cut, and you’ll be following it up with a spindle gouge that will clean it up anyway.

 

[Robin Thompson]

I'm wondering if your jig is centered on the wheel?

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Like Odie said, you always have to look to see where you need to apply pressure or not, the jig or platform help but you still need to know what you are after. That been said, thats the easiest tool to sharpen, and not too critical if you at first dont get it just right. Its not too late to let go, you have started a hobby that is highly addicting, lol. Have fun!

 

[John Torchick]

1. Using the arm with the V on it.
2. Sweated over centering the wheel with the jig. Drew lots of lines, measured, more lines, measured, ad infinitum. I'm a perfectionist in that.
3. It did cut good but, as I said, I'm a perfectionist in a lot of things. My spindle gouge is centered as perfect as I can get.
4. Does anyone have the website for Woodturners Anonymous? I can quit anytime I want.........but I don't want to quit!

 

[john lucas]

Everyone else is dead on. A sharpening fixture or tool rest will only get you in the ballpark and help you save metal because the angle is correct. If you grind too long in one spot you will get a dip or in your case change the length of the wings. I remember years ago I looked at my skew one day and one bevel was a lot longer than the other. I had simply ground on that side too long and apparently repeated that error often with each sharpening. There's not reason to go back and grind away the other side until they match all at once. Each time I went to the grinder I just concentrated on grinding on the short side a little longer. After a few dozen sharpenings both sides were the same again. I still have a bowl gouge that I purposely sharpen with the left wing a lot longer than the right side. I use it for long shear pull cuts. I never use the right side for that so no reason to grind there.

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks, John. I remember the sharpening demo at Cookeville a couple of years ago. Will you be doing another in the general Cleveland/Chattanooga area? Let me know, please.

 

[hockenbery]

1. Using the arm with the V on it.
2. Sweated over centering the wheel with the jig. Drew lots of lines, measured, more lines, measured, ad infinitum. I'm a perfectionist in that.
3. It did cut good but, as I said, I'm a perfectionist in a lot of things. My spindle gouge is centered as perfect as I can get.
4. Does anyone have the website for Woodturners Anonymous? I can quit anytime I want.........but I don't want to quit!

Using the POCKET there is nothing but your touch to keep the tool edge from advancing further toward the wheel.
I think We all may have natural tendency to press harder on one side of the tool,or the other as we roll it.
Sharpening on a PLATFORM keeps the edge in the same place as the tool is rolled unless you angle the tool slightly off perpendicular as you roll it.

Both will give usable results if you get slightly off. Getting way off with either is a method of putting wings on your tool.
Once you get off a ltttle repeated sharpening can make it worse if you don’t correct it.

Basically looking and correcting is what we all do when we sharpen whether we use jigs or some hand supported method.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

1. Using the arm with the V on it.
2. Sweated over centering the wheel with the jig. Drew lots of lines, measured, more lines, measured, ad infinitum. I'm a perfectionist in that.
3. It did cut good but, as I said, I'm a perfectionist in a lot of things. My spindle gouge is centered as perfect as I can get.
4. Does anyone have the website for Woodturners Anonymous? I can quit anytime I want.........but I don't want to quit!

John, the reason I asked that question is that using the V-arm as the tool support rather than a platform is potentially dangerous. A fellow club member of mine seriously hurt his hand doing just that. The problem is that depending on the coefficient of friction between the tool steel and the grinding wheel and the amount of downward pressure applied by the user, there is a critical minimum nose angle between tool and wheel at which the tool will start to self-feed into the wheel. At that point one of several things will happen. The wheel simply stops (perhaps with a dent in the wheel), the V-arm moves out to allow the tool to slam ones hand down against the V-arm, the tang of the tool bends to allow the tool to slam ones hand down against the V-arm, others that I have not thought of.

What is this critical angle? I do not know, but I expect that it varies quite a bit with different grinding wheels. Apparently 45 degrees nose angles is ?safe?, because that is a fairly common nose angle for spindle roughing gouges and I know that many turners continue to use the V-arm method. The problem lies in the other little factors that can go wrong: The V-arm was not fully tightened and slipped out a bit during grinding, the V-arm was set for a different tool and the user forgot to re-set it, a V-arm position was established for the tool and was not updated as the tool wore down, etc.

If you doubt the existence of a self-feeding phenomenon, try it yourself using a piece of small wood dowel (with suitable personal protection of course).

 

[John Torchick]

Dennis, thanks for the concern and the info. I understand what you are saying. I put very little pressure on the tool. I don't want to generate too much heat on the metal. If I change tools, I am careful to check the angle with the grinder off before I turn it on and start to work the tool. The arm is locked in place also before starting the grinder. Lots to consider for safety when working with WWing or turning.

 

[Clifton C]

Dennis is spot on, I know people get away with using the V pocket to sharpen a SRG but I have seen and heard what happens when the tool gets pinched. In one instance, after all fingers where accounted for, we decided that the V arm clamp had loosened, probably due to vibration, the arm backed out and you can guess the results. Another result from using the pocket instead of the platform is that sometimes the SRG is not in line with the handle or the tang might be bent a little, this can cause an asymmetrical grind. Try resting the gouge on the edge of a bench with the handle hanging off the side, roll it side to side and see if the handle end scribes an arch. If it does it might be fixable or it might be just something to be aware of so you can take corrective action while sharpening.

 

[Marshall Sadler]

I used to use the Vee pocket to grind my Traditional bowl gouge until I had an experience like what Dennis describes. I was grinding a very steep bevel angle of 80 degrees at the time. The bowl house started to self feed and eventually caught on the wheel. This catch stopped my little Ryobi grinder, I don't what to imagine what would have happened if I had a bigger grinder at the time.

 

[John Torchick]

Almost makes me want to take up knitting. Thanks for the "warnings" for the V arm.

 

[john lucas]

Yes any tool that has a blunt angle of 75 or 80 degrees is very dangerous to sharpen using the Oneway jig with the V arm. You are getting very close to the danger zone on the grinding wheel where it will be pulled down and damage either the tool or the wheel or both. Much better to sharpen these on the platform. I sharpen my SRG much more acute than most people so for me it would not be a problem however I still sharpen them on the platform free hand.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Does anyone have the website for Woodturners Anonymous?

Since they're anonymous they can't tell you what it is.

Personally, I don't like the idea of sticking the tool handle in the Wolverine V pocket. For angles greater than 45°, it's risky and for angles greater than 60° it's disaster waiting to happen especially if the tool is loose in the handle. I have seen a new bowl gouge that was loose in the handle during a class. The owner of the tool was having trouble at the grinder when he noticed that that the tool was wiggling in the handle. Once self-feeding begins, there's no stopping it.

Knitting can be very dangerous ... just think what might happen if a herd of kittens came charging through the room and pouncing on the rolling balls of yarn.

 

[John Torchick]

I like cats..........they taste like chicken. My two Chihuahuas wouldn't tolerate any feline presence in their territory.
OK, to carry it further.........then why do we have the V arm? Seems like it was a waste of $$$ to buy the sharpening jig.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

I like cats..........they taste like chicken. My two Chihuahuas wouldn't tolerate any feline presence in their territory.
OK, to carry it further.........then why do we have the V arm? Seems like it was a waste of $$$ to buy the sharpening jig.

The most common use for it is to support the Vari-Grind jig or its equivalents.

 

[john lucas]

The V arm works well for Skews, parting tools and other tools with a fairly acute bevel. It's the really blunt bevels like some SRG's and scrapers where it fails. I cut my V arm down to about a foot because I never use it with tool handles in the V arm. It's always used with the Wolverine jig.

 

[John Torchick]

Dennis, that reminds me that I need to get the Vari-Grind jig. John, thanks two bunches. I have the platform that I can put on the grinder for the gouges. Will give it a try.
If someone asks how I grind my turning tools, I'll reply, "Verrrry carefully."

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Dennis, that reminds me that I need to get the Vari-Grind jig. John, thanks two bunches. I have the platform that I can put on the grinder for the gouges. Will give it a try.
If someone asks how I grind my turning tools, I'll reply, "Verrrry carefully."

John, when you get that Vari-Grind jig, post here and ask how to use it. That should start a new thread that will last until Spring.

 

[John Torchick]

John, when you get that Vari-Grind jig, post here and ask how to use it. That should start a new thread that will last until Spring.

Good idea. This will keep us busy for a while. May take us into turning Christmas tree ornaments?

 

[Ron Solfest]

I also cut v-arm down to about a foot and only use with varigrind. I use platform for scrapers and freehand for SRG. I’ve been playing with freehand on skews but take it to tormek if I want a really good edge.

 

[Clifton C]

Speaking of the vari-grind... You have a few options, one is, should you go for the vari-grind 2 or not. I know it is supposed to be "safer" but there seems to be a lot of trade offs for the "safer" features. If you have the option of try before you buy I certainly would. My thoughts are, with care and forethought, the original vari-grind is safe, easier to set and more versatile then the 2 . I'm not saying the 2 is not a usable jig, just that it is limiting.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Speaking of the vari-grind... You have a few options, one is, should you go for the vari-grind 2 or not. I know it is supposed to be "safer" but there seems to be a lot of trade offs for the "safer" features. If you have the option of try before you buy I certainly would. My thoughts are, with care and forethought, the original vari-grind is safe, easier to set and more versatile then the 2 . I'm not saying the 2 is not a usable jig, just that it is limiting.

Looks like we starting the Vari-Grind thread sooner than I expected! I have only tried the Vari-Grind 2 once, but I found it very limiting. I would not consider replacing my regular version.

 

[odie]

The Wolverine V-arm is also used for the traditional grind, where a gouge turns on it's longitudinal axis while being ground. This grind isn't used much anymore, but it's part of my "roots", and I use it almost exclusively.

-----odie-----

 

[john lucas]

I also don't like the Varigrind 2. I sharpen my gouges the normal way with the varigrind and then move the jig forward in the V arm and create a secondary bevel. Can't do that with the Varigrind 2.

 

[John Torchick]

I decided to review a sharpening video that I Bookmarked a couple of years ago. Cindy Drozda uses the platform to sharpen different gouges. Enjoy.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_KDSIDAtGc

 

[robo hippy]

What's a gouge jig???? Well, platform sharpening for years, and don't know how to use jigs... I just looked at the V arm years ago and said 'Never more', or actually a more colorful version of it....

On a side note, who is the wise guy???? John Torchick "likes getting catches"? Me, "barely scraping by"? John Lucas "AAW Forum expert"??? Odie "Master Bowl Maker"??? Some one has a sense of humor....

robo hippy

 

[Martin Groneng]

Everybody knows what a "gouge jig"is! That's the dance one does when a piece flys off the lathe when your gouge grabs and the piece hits you on the face mask or "jig faster" when it hits you between the eyes and the tune is "S%W*?^@" very loud!!

 

[John Torchick]

I'll use the V arm for some tools and learn to use the platform for other tools. Thanks to all for your input.

 

[john lucas]

I'm not the forum expert. Then again I might be. I heard the definition of an expert is anyone on the internet. Or anyone more than 10 miles from home. If you break it down, Ex is unknown, Spert is a drip under pressure so an Expert is an unknown drip under pressure.

 

[John Torchick]

Ex= has-been; Spurt= comes and goes. Ergo, an expert is a has-been who comes and goes.
FWIW, I just finished Lyle Jamieson's Bowl Basics. He used the Woodcut Tru Grind. Looked good until I saw the $75 tab. Any contributions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Clifton C]

I have no experience with the Tru-Grind, but Packard, http://www.packardwoodworks.com has the Vari-grind for 50 bucks plus whatever else finds its way into your cart...They look similar, I'm sure they both work well.

 

[John Torchick]

Clifton, thanks for the link. Will compare the two but the $50 looks good to me. Now to sneak it in without SWMBO finding out.

 

[Bill Boehme]

What's a gouge jig???? Well, platform sharpening for years, and don't know how to use jigs... I just looked at the V arm years ago and said 'Never more', or actually a more colorful version of it....

A platform is a jig and so is the basic Wolverine. They are just not quite as fancy as some other jigs.