Serious lathe accidents and injurys.......a preventive idea

[robo hippy]

Odie,

I actually have a web site under construction. The only gallery shots I ever did are on my bowl coring DVD. I will let you know when it is up. I almost never critique. It is just an opinion.

For me, when turning the outside of a bowl, I have the sliding headstock for that. Slide all the way down to the end and stand there so you don't have to lean over, or extend your arms like Stuart Batty does. You can also do a pull cut where you stand on the headstock side, extend minimally, still standing out of the line of fire. having the headstock on the end also works for turning out the inside. You just stand straight up, in front, and turn. It drives me crazy to see people with a sliding headstock turning bowls from the side.

I do wear a face shield when turning spindles, which isn't often. You do have to stand pretty much in the line of fire, and there seems to be no way to get the chips out of your face, other than by using the face shield.

robo hippy

 

[Malcolm Zander]

Face shields and helmets

On the day that Lynn Yamaguchi had her accident I was giving a rotation at the New Zealand symposium. The first thing I spoke about was safety equipment and in particular the setup I use. I also showed a slide of a piece of wood I was roughing out recently and found a large piece of barbed wire embedded in it, and asked the attendees how they would like to have this end up in their face.

The setup I use is shown in the April 2010 (vol 25) issue of the American Woodturner, page 25, and I believe that a helmet arrangement like this answers many of the questions raised earlier as to good protection. I know that it looks weird and over the top, but it truly is comfortable, quiet, the air is at room temperature, and I can (and do) wear it all day without discomfort.

Do take a look, folks, and give it some thought. The cost of the Triton plus the separate blower is substantial, but I view it as as essential as a good chuck or gouge and as an integral part of all my equipment. If you can afford a lathe you can afford good head protection. I have only one face and pair of eyes and they are not easy to replace.

MZ

 

[Bill Boehme]

Translation, don't take your daughter with you when you pick out your frames. You're allowed to choose your own fashion. Wives may cluck, but don't mock.

I get my instructions before leaving the house on what I need to get. Somewhere between then and when I pick out a frame instructions might get confused a bit.

.... Can you still get case-hardened glass lenses?

Polycarbonate is much more impact resistant than any kind of optical glass used in glasses AFAIK. When you get glasses you need to tell them that you want safety glasses. The difference is that the lenses are much thicker and the frames besides not being exactly fashionable have to meet some safety requirements for ruggedness and also not allow the lens to pop out from the rear if impacted. I know that when I was working, I couldn't go into a hard hat area with regular glasses or ones with glass lenses unless also wearing goggles.

... My problem when it comes to trifocals is that I'm still working as an IT manager. with a row of three 19" monitors on my desk. I need a lens area that allows me to focus on my monitors (at 22" from my eyes) without have to constantly adjust my head position.

My wife regularly complains about my extremely large frames ("It's not the 70's anymore!"). I nod and say "Yes, dear" and will choose what I want when the time comes.

Sorry to hear that you are still working.

You can tell your optometrist or ophthalmologist what distance you would like for the mid range. If you don't say then they will assume about three feet. I told my ophthalmologist that I wanted mine to focus at about 22" since that is what I prefer for my large screen photo editing monitor and it works perfectly for me.

Once you get adjusted to them, you never notice the transition, but at first I spent all of my time looking at the transitions in the glasses rather than what I was supposed to be looking at. Once I figured out what I was doing was not the same thing as what I should be doing, everything was fine.

The one thing that does bug me about wearing glasses is lateral chromatic aberration which is a problem when trying to fix chromatic aberration in the periphery of images. Just in the nick of time, Adobe came up with a color fringe detecting algorithm for their raw converter software that works pretty well.

 

[Jim Livingston]

Jim,

Thanks for the detail info. I will have it in hand when I go to the optician. Can you still get case-hardened glass lenses?

John:

Case hardened and "chem hardened" glass lenses are available, but they have no place in your wood shop and particularly at the lathe!!!

The very best material we currently have on the market is "Trivex" also marketed by Hoya as "Phoenix" a close 2nd is "Polycarbonate". Both materials have excellent impact resistance, far greater than other ophthalmic materials, Trivex is much more "scratch resistant" and is greatly more chemical resistant than Poly.

Another option for those that prefer progressive (no line) multifocals there are a group of lenses "office lenses" or "room distance" lenses that optimize intermediate and near ranges. These lenses are available in Trivex and Poly and can be ground to industrial safety standards. Again there are a multitude of options available and a good dispensing Optician can help you sort it out!

Someone else mentioned it and they are correct "get safety glasses"! Consider them to be an essential tool required for turning!

 

[john lucas]

If you buy transition lenses make sure you can take them back if they don't work. I bought some. I simply could not get used to them. It looked like I had a 2" circle in focus and had to move my head constantly to have the are in focus that I needed. I gave it 2 weeks and finally took them back. My boss and my secretary loved theirs. It just didn't work for me at all.

 

[Gretch Flo]

glasses

My optometrist changed my focal length a few years ago to "avoid" computer stain. As my eyes changed, my arms weren't long enuf to comfortably read with these glasses , so I had her change the focal length and stronger magnification. So my old glasses are good, but not strong enuf for seeing the sanding scratches. So for years I have used bifocal safely glasses and just flip them on my head, and off and they cover my glasses. However thru the years they are pretty scratched and I need new ones. I have several other pairs of "nicer" looking ones, but don't fit my eyes/over glasses well with the bifocal part. I do not remember where I got the ones I like. Does anyone have some suggestions?? I have looked at all the catelogs I have and they don't have the over the glasses kind and more side protection. (BTW dust can get thru them when wearing this set up).

 

[John Lawson]

If you have a grand to drop, there are always adjustable focus glasses ( http://www.superfocus.com/ ). While a nifty idea, they ugly enough to detract even from my looks.

 

[Bill Boehme]

They are almost geeky enough for me to want them. They still need a band-aid on the nose bridge.

Several yeas ago Canon had some cameras that used eye detection autofocus. It sensed eye motion to determine what you were looking at and then focused on that. It was a great idea, but not for that application unless you understood what the camera was trying to do and actually looked at what you wanted to be in the sharpest focus. In actuality, most users kept scanning around the scene, forcing the AF to try to follow the eye movements. In the end, the users were often unhappy that the camera couldn't figure out what the user intended to be in focus while their eyes wandered all over the place. Maybe it wasn't so great an idea for a camera, but it might be great for spectacles. It would at least get rid of the silly geeky slider over the nose bridge and replace it with something even geekier -- high tech, but still geeky. I will wait until you get your variable focus glasses, John, and if folks don't poke too much fun at you maybe I'll think about it.

 

[Robert Manning]

I asked my eye doctor about the reading glasses at the dollar store. She told me she has patients who wear those and they're not a problem. There is a guy in her office who sells $300 reading glasses and those are fine too.

Then I told her I needed to see things up close and she simply told me to use glasses with a higher number.

I bought a few pairs of different focal length and use them where appropriate.

If each eye is different, then obviously custom glasses are required.

FOR SAFETY, when diameter and speed increase, I wear a pair of ski type safety goggles and a respirator under a full face shield. I wear glasses under the goggles if needed. On the larger pieces especially, I stay out of the line of fire and fear the turning object. Fear is good.

 

[Jake_Debski]

In addition

Steve Antonucci over on W.C. has put it best in my view.

http://www.woodcentral.com/woodwork...md/read/id/460074/sbj/categories-of-injuries/

Jake

 

[Jim Livingston]

If you buy transition lenses make sure you can take them back if they don't work. I bought some. I simply could not get used to them. It looked like I had a 2" circle in focus and had to move my head constantly to have the are in focus that I needed. I gave it 2 weeks and finally took them back. My boss and my secretary loved theirs. It just didn't work for me at all.

John:

Just for the record - "Transition" is a term used to describe photochromic lenses that turn dark or change color when exposed to bright light, specifically UV from the sun (it is a registered brand name of Transitions Optical Company Inc). The lenses that you refer to are "Progressive" lenses that have a graduated reading add. And yes many people do not acclimate to them, especially if you have become accustomed to wearing conventional bifocals! It is equally true that many people do not tolerate the line in conventional bifocals and trifocals and prefer progressives, the moral is "all things are not for all people!" It is therefor advisable to seek out a knowledgeable professional that can sort through the options and is willing to back up their work!

It is also true that a product that is safe for one activity may not be safe for others, which was my point to Odie about the hockey helmet. Most of these items are deemed safe "WHEN USED AS DIRECTED" when we attempt to re-purpose them we may unwittingly put ourselves at risk. [end of sermon]

 

[john lucas]

You are correct. Sorry about that. I did try Progressives also. They were always dark when I wanted the lighter and vice/Versa. If the change was faster they would be great.

 

[Terry Martin]

Yep.....truth there, Paul.......

I have had an Airstream helmet for 20 years now. It's probably better than my regular face shield, but would your Airmate, or my Airstream hold up to the kind of blow that broke all the bones on the side of Lynn Yamaguchi's face? They might, but I suspect we are getting into the kind of territory that neither of these air filtration devices were intended to accommodate.........Without looking it up, I believe she said the piece that hit her was a kilo.......2.2 lbs, and at 1200 rpmooc

I also use an Airstream and about 12 years ago I was hit full in the face in similar circumstances with a half a block of burl that weighed around 20 KG. Apart from a stiff neck and a sore butt from landing on the floor, I sustained no injury and the helmet was unmarked. With that single incident it paid for itself a million times over as I am sure it would have killed me. I never turn big pieces without my helmet. It is now going on 25 years old and still going strong.

 

[Dale Jablonski]

Still have to deal with the weight issue. Athletes are in good physical condition and typically do not have the helmets in an active posture for that long. Average hockey shift is 45 seconds and then they are resting except for the goaltender. Football players take theirs off when on sidelines. This is another consideration.

 

[Odie]

My optometrist changed my focal length a few years ago to "avoid" computer stain. As my eyes changed, my arms weren't long enuf to comfortably read with these glasses , so I had her change the focal length and stronger magnification. So my old glasses are good, but not strong enuf for seeing the sanding scratches. So for years I have used bifocal safely glasses and just flip them on my head, and off and they cover my glasses. However thru the years they are pretty scratched and I need new ones. I have several other pairs of "nicer" looking ones, but don't fit my eyes/over glasses well with the bifocal part. I do not remember where I got the ones I like. Does anyone have some suggestions?? I have looked at all the catelogs I have and they don't have the over the glasses kind and more side protection. (BTW dust can get thru them when wearing this set up).

Gretch......I bought a pair of these 3x clip on magnifiers. They are pretty cheap and might work for you. They are similar to those clip on sunglasses you see everywhere....... They still don't filter out all the dust, and if that's your requirement, I don't see a solution, other than to get something that makes a seal.......goggles, maybe......or, something like one of the air filtration helmets.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3x-clip-on-magnifiers-66825.html

ooc

 

[Odie]

Instead of mounting a face shield to the front of the helmet cage, I tried a pair of over-the-glasses safety glasses tonight. This worked decently. The hockey helmet is only going to be used occasionally........for those times where I anticipate, or foresee a reasonable "threat level". There have been times in the past when the "threat level" has been a real concern........now, I feel much safer to know I have this option.......

Most of the time, my face shield is the preferred protection. Sometimes I use the Airstream.

I'm one who thinks some people really go overboard, and has every conceivable problem covered by some restrictive safety device. The consideration is somewhere within what is a reasonable threat level, and what is a remote threat level........We just have to weigh the possibilities against the risks........sometimes the risks are low, and other times the risks are......well, more risky! How each individual will evaluate the circumstances is definitely not the same!

ooc

 

[Gretch Flo]

clip ons

Gretch......I bought a pair of these 3x clip on magnifiers. They are pretty cheap and might work for you. They are similar to those clip on sunglasses you see everywhere....... They still don't filter out all the dust, and if that's your requirement, I don't see a solution, other than to get something that makes a seal.......goggles, maybe......or, something like one of the air filtration helmets.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3x-clip-on-magnifiers-66825.html

ooc

Thanks Odie-good tip. No the dust is not an issue. Will keep in mind when I go to HF the next time, Gretch

 

[Gretch Flo]

reasonable risk protection

Instead of mounting a face shield to the front of the helmet cage, I tried a pair of over-the-glasses safety glasses tonight. This worked decently. The hockey helmet is only going to be used occasionally........for those times where I anticipate, or foresee a reasonable "threat level". There have been times in the past when the "threat level" has been a real concern........now, I feel much safer to know I have this option.......

Most of the time, my face shield is the preferred protection. Sometimes I use the Airstream.

I'm one who thinks some people really go overboard, and has every conceivable problem covered by some restrictive safety device. The consideration is somewhere within what is a reasonable threat level, and what is a remote threat level........We just have to weigh the possibilities against the risks........sometimes the risks are low, and other times the risks are......well, more risky! How each individual will evaluate the circumstances is definitely not the same!


ooc

I'm with you on this Odie. I sarcastically replied on a thread here a few years ago "Kevlar next" for body protection.
Gretch

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'm with you on this Odie. I sarcastically replied on a thread here a few years ago "Kevlar next" for body protection.
Gretch

http://www.carbideinsert.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/CNC-Lathe.jpg

Of course, you would have an interlock switch to prevent operation with the door open.

 

[Gretch Flo]

http://www.carbideinsert.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/CNC-Lathe.jpg

Of course, you would have an interlock switch to prevent operation with the door open.

Robotically controlled, right??? Gretch

 

[David Dillon]

airmate

I too have used an Airmate for over 15 years. This has a heavy Lexan face plate attached to a hard hat. The curved face plate would tend to deflect any object flying directly at it. I would advise not eating large quantities of baked beans 2 to 3 hours prior to using the airmate because the filtered air intake is on a belt which is worn just above your butt. Do the math it is not pleasant!

 

[herb]

helmets

Hi

Just thinking, sometimes rodeo bull riders wear a helmet. That has got to be pretty heavy duty. Any ol' cowboys out there that could clue is in?

Herb

 

[Andy Chen]

Check out what Lynne Yamaguchi has done since her unfortunate accident, http://www.lynneyamaguchi.com/wordpress/.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Not trying to be a smartass, but turning at a lower RPM increases safety margin in a big way. So many push the higher RPM for speed, better cut, etc, but safety is sacrificed. Too big of a trade off for me.

 

[Odie]

Hi

Just thinking, sometimes rodeo bull riders wear a helmet. That has got to be pretty heavy duty. Any ol' cowboys out there that could clue is in?

Herb

Glad she didn't give up......

A testament to fortitude and inner soul.......:cool2:

ooc

 

[hughie]

I believe it was Will Rogers who said, "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from, well, bad judgement." My first line of defense is standing out of the line of fire. This was burned into my behavior habits on the lathe by turning a lot of sloppy wet wood (any one ever invent wind shield wipers for a face mask or glasses?). The second line of defense is being able to judge just how much risk there is in turning any particular piece of wood, and turning accordingly. This is the experience part, which is some thing that you can give a lot of instruction about, but can't really teach.

Paul, I would be willing to bet that the bark inclusion that 'was not visible from the outside' was really visible, you just did not see it. If you were to go back and really look at the piece, especially when finished, there was most likely a hint of what was there. Kind of like the guy turning that piece of apricot a few months ago, which had a bark inclusion through the entire piece. I could see it before he started turning it, and just as he bent over to see up close what he was doing, it blew up.

I do remember seeing a thread a year or so ago, as the helmet thing keeps coming up, about 'impact ratings' for helmets. Can't remember where though. We need eye protection, head protection, and proper suspension for the helmet. This is where the positive pressure helmets come in as when your face is enclosed and protected, air flow is restricted, and your mask will fog up, especially if you are a heavy breather like I am. Yes, let the hot air comments flow! I still have a CPAP (snoring machine) that I got some years back for this use, but haven't applied yet. Maybe some day, but it is not portable.

robo hippy

An interesting subject Odie and well worth bringing up.

I pretty well go along with robo hippy and I also have the well disciplined habit of standing off to one side as much possible. Not being there when it flies is one of the best forms of protection. Mind you I only do bowls and or hollow vessels and I have dedicated bowl lathes which allow me to be where I prefer.
I turn a fair bit of resinous eucalyptus burl, known for its susceptibility to blow apart. With this I spend time looking it over closely and have been known to fill any and all suspect faults with CA and leave it over night. re-inspect in the morning. The trick is not to be in a hurry to get it on the lathe.

 

[Bill Weaver]

got my bionic face shield in the mail Tuesday and tried it for the first time yesterday. found it to be very comfortable to wear (roomy) and felt comfortable turning with it. I still stand to the side when all possible.
Thanks for this thread Odie I think it woake the most of us up to be safer.

 

[Bart Leetch]

All I know if buying & using a Serious lathe would cause me to have accidents I'd probably stick with a PowerMatic or a Robust or maybe a Vicmark.

Sorry I just couldn't resist.

 

[Jason Lee Smith]

Helmets

I Have a Powercap 4 IP lite, its a clear face shield with a metal frame, it has an integrated bump-cap and is certified impact resistant to various European standards. it has two light mobile phone batteries built in to it, powering an air filtration system that blows filtered air down over the face - avoiding misting!
It's a surprisingly light piece of kit - very comfortable!
And has already saved my life - when as an inexperienced (stupid?) turner, I put the speed up on an 18 inch piece of chestnut which then exploded and hit me in what would have been my face - had I not been wearing this!
now I wear it all the time!
worth its' weight in gold!

 

[Odie]

I Have a Powercap 4 IP lite, its a clear face shield with a metal frame, it has an integrated bump-cap and is certified impact resistant to various European standards. it has two light mobile phone batteries built in to it, powering an air filtration system that blows filtered air down over the face - avoiding misting!
It's a surprisingly light piece of kit - very comfortable!
And has already saved my life - when as an inexperienced (stupid?) turner, I put the speed up on an 18 inch piece of chestnut which then exploded and hit me in what would have been my face - had I not been wearing this!
now I wear it all the time!
worth its' weight in gold!

Thanks, Jason......

I hadn't heard of the Powercap lite before, so had to run a search to see what you were talking about.......for convenience to those who are also curious, here's a link to the Powercap:

http://www.mdsassociates.com/catalog/p-102230/75-275cad602-jsp-powercap-lite-powered-respirator



ooc

 

[Jason Lee Smith]

powercap

Hi Odie,
thanks for the link - shame didn't think of that myself
There are loads of different versions of this - I have the impact resistant eight hour battery life version, but below is a link to one of the Impact Rated ones (which has different specs to the one in your link)

www.sitebox.ltd.uk/jsp-powercap-lite-respirator-impact-protection-4-hour-battery-oJSP1P4
regards

 

[mark ravensdale]

Might be a good idea that,
Can you still fit lung protection under it???
I know the woods stil wet but I alway use lung protection, some may not but I do, could you fit a dust mask under it ???
Please don't think I'am making fun, I just wondered,
Also if my memory serves me correctly, I do believe there was a fatal accident in Australia fairly recent

 

[hockenbery]

Might be a good idea that,
Can you still fit lung protection under it???
I know the woods stil wet but I alway use lung protection, some may not but I do, could you fit a dust mask under it ???
Please don't think I'am making fun, I just wondered,
Also if my memory serves me correctly, I do believe there was a fatal accident in Australia fairly recent

Mark,
I have and old airmate that uses the same principle of filtered forced air coming into the headgear. As long as the HEPA filters are installed I'm breathing clean air.
Of course I don't flip up the visor and breath while the air is full,of dust.
I also got a soft headgear I use when carving and sanding off the lathe.

 

[Raul McCai]

thanks for posting

I followed this to the link where Ms Yamaguchi has her recovery blogged
She's still recovering and praying for a medical miracle.
OUCH~!!!

So I ordered a helmet with a face cage

I'd have laughed at the notion of such a measure, right up to the moment where I saw she was still recovering.

My lathe has a cage but I'm less likely to put it on than I am to grab a helmet.

 

[Odie]

I followed this to the link where Ms Yamaguchi has her recovery blogged
She's still recovering and praying for a medical miracle.
OUCH~!!!

So I ordered a helmet with a face cage

I'd have laughed at the notion of such a measure, right up to the moment where I saw she was still recovering.

My lathe has a cage but I'm less likely to put it on than I am to grab a helmet.

Raul.....

I no longer have the hockey helmet, but am using two modified alternatives. A safety shield headband with a police riot shield installed, and a softball fielders mask with extra protection brazed at the center. I don't use either all the time, but both some of the time.....depending on my assessment of the danger. The riot shield is very heavy, but affords great unobstructed full coverage protection. The fielder's mask fits under the regular bionic shield.

Lynn Yamaguchi was my inspiration for having some extra face protection......and, coming up with my own improvised solutions.

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

I followed this to the link where Ms Yamaguchi has her recovery blogged
She's still recovering and praying for a medical miracle.
OUCH~!!!

So I ordered a helmet with a face cage

I'd have laughed at the notion of such a measure, right up to the moment where I saw she was still recovering.

My lathe has a cage but I'm less likely to put it on than I am to grab a helmet.

The most important thing to do is learn to turn safely so that the likelihood of things flying off the lathe is greatly reduced. Figuring out why you are getting catches and then adjusting your technique is a big part of turning more safely.

Something to keep in mind about any kind of face protection: it may go a long way in protecting your eyes, teeth and nose, but because the shield is anchored to your head, that is where the energy will ultimately be dissipated.