Second Chuck Suggestions

[Bill Blasic]

The point is not how many chucks and lathes I have (was 5 chucks per lathe) but that all my chucks in my estimation are as good as each other. So the first Vicmarcs were exact copies of the Nova, they opened and closed in the same directions as the Novas. Nova was the first woodturning chuck so all others open and close in the wrong direction Woodturners first mistake with a chuck is to grip wood with the jaws open instead of using the jaws as they are supposed to be used encircling the wood closest to a circle for the best holding power, that is why chuck manufacturers make a large variety of jaws. All my chucks turn smoothly. I'll bet that there are more turners using Novas than any other brand by a long shot and one of the reasons for that is that all the jaws fit all the chucks except for the jaws made for the Titan I and III only should be used on the Titan I and III. We know wood moves so when turning a bowl I always state that before you turn the bowl around to mount in your jaws to make your last cut on the tenon as the wood has moved since you first made that tenon. This gives you the truest running blank to start the second side. I understand that you paid big bucks so you feel it is the best as most woodturners feel that way but just because it costs more does not always make it better.

 

[hockenbery]

My observation is that students in workshops and classes often never learned to make good tenons.
Even when told in the class about the proper tenon they fail to get the fine details or ignore that part because they already know it. On the first project I do a tenon inspection before the piece goes into the chuck. Some student who pass tenon inspection on the first go make bad tenons in pieces the later in the class- old habits coming back - loss of focus.

Poorly made tenons lead to full or partial failure.

Nova jaws, dovetail jaws, ONEWAY profile jaws all work
It is my experience that Nova jaws demand a near perfect tenon.
The ONEWAY jaws and dove tail jaws will both grips some poorly made tenons.

Those insistent on the trial and error method will have more success with ONEWAY jaws or dovetail jaws. Also mistakes you can get away with on a small bowl will fail on a larger work.

 

[William Rogers]

The question here was a second chuck recommendation. Since I have owned Barracuda, Nova, Hurricane brands I based my reply on my experience. I had three SuperNova 2s and One G3. The runout off all them was between 0.002 and 0.003”. Not real bad and used these chucks for about 2 years. Did not like the tightening sequence of the Novas. I never had a piece come out of any of them. I bought two Record chucks that are pretty much a beefed up copy of the Novas, but tighten the way most chucks do. These chucks can also use the Nova jaws. The runout of these chucks was ~0.001”, better than the Novas. Now I have 6 Nova style chucks all with different jaws and the Hurricane HTC 125. The Hurricane runout is less than 0.001 and is a large 5” chuck. I initially ended up buying the Axminister chuck because I had the Axminister eccentric chuck and none of the Nova jaws were the right size for this chuck. I bought the SK100 chuck and runout was less than 0.0005”. This chuck also fit my eccentric chuck perfectly. I liked this chuck and bought the Axminister SK114 that is larger and the O’Donnell jaws. Runout of this chuck was also less than 0.0005”. The Axminister chucks have a stainless steel body and they are direct thread. The Axminster chucks have the widest range of jaws and jaws are mostly interchangeable between the two chucks. You buy extra slides for the jaws. I no longer needed the Novas and Record chucks. Sold all but one Record chuck as there were no takers at what the others were priced, but only came with pin jaws. So based on my experience I recommend the Axminister chucks above the others for a second chuck.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Al with the 2" jaws that come on most of the Nova chucks the dovetail part of the inside jaws is only about an 1/8" and is straight sided under that dovetail. When the dovetail used on these jaws is more than about .150 the bottom of the dovetail hits the straight side long before the actual dovetail contacts the wood. I just make a 1/8" dovetail (no more than about .150) and this is more than enough dovetail to hold the piece securely. Mister Rogers I like Axminster chucks but no way do they have the widest array of jaws unless you count that you have more than one of the same jaws because all their jaws do not fit all of their chucks. I definitely agree that the type C Axminster jaws hold the eccentric chuck the best but only 1 of the 2 C jaws can be used with all 3 chucks. My main point is that there are numerous good chucks available, find one you like and can afford.

 

[William Rogers]

can be used with all 3 chucks

Regarding jaws for the Axminister, I didn’t include their small chuck, just the SK100 and SK114. For those chucks I think they have more jaws available. Plus I like the ease of changing them. I believe Nova now has direct thread 1 1/4” chuck. I feel the inserts add to runout as another piece in the stackup of tolerances. I never put the cut in for what I call the bird’s beak on the 50mm Nova jaws. Nova’s manual (yes I read the manual) said not to as it will reduce holding. I know many who do and have not had a problem, but I didn’t and never had a problem.

 

[hockenbery]

Al with the 2" jaws that come on most of the Nova chucks the dovetail part of the inside jaws is only about an 1/8" and is straight sided under that dovetail. When the dovetail used on these jaws is more than about .150 the bottom of the dovetail hits the straight side long before the actual dovetail contacts the wood. I just make a 1/8" dovetail (no more than about .150) and this is more than enough dovetail to hold the piece securely.

I still own a nova with those jaws. If it has a tenon made to fit like you or I would make it those jaws hold extremely well. Did club bowl workshop a couple of months ago with mostly nova jaws(I call them bird beak jaws) Stressed making straight tenons with a small cut out in the corner for the birds beak. They all had success.

I was just pointing out that nova jaws are more demanding on having a tenon to fit the jaws in profile and diameter.

At Arowmont, I saw one student turn a bowl using a vicmarc with a slightly conical tenon - inverses dovetail of maybe 7 degrees. I could not believe he could hollow it without pulling it out - at least he paid attention to the bevel. It was green soft maple so maybe the Vicmarc just bit it and held.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I still own a nova with those jaws. If it has a tenon made to fit like you or I would make it those jaws hold extremely well. Did club bowl workshop a couple of months ago with mostly nova jaws(I call them bird beak jaws) Stressed making straight tenons with a small cut out in the corner for the birds beak. They all had success.

Recently Nova sent a email with video on the tenon and they do not call it a dovetail. But that may have been the presenters words and I cannot find the video.

 

[William Rogers]

The50mmstandard jaw has a thin lip or shoulder at the front face. This is designed to bite into the timber as the jaws are tightened. DO NOT CUT A RECESS FOR THE LIP TO FIT INTO, AS THIS WILL REDUCE GRIPPING POWER
No doubt that putting in the small cut has a significant. I just went and checked to be sure my memory was not failing. Here is what Nova has in the manual.

"The50mmstandard jaw has a thin lip or shoulder at the front face. This is designed to bite into the timber as the jaws are tightened. DO NOT CUT A RECESS FOR THE LIP TO FIT INTO, AS THIS WILL REDUCE GRIPPING POWER.”

Many cut that little lip and not had problems, however what Nova has stated makes sense to me the gripping will be stronger.

 

[hockenbery]

Many cut that little lip and not had problems, however what Nova has stated makes sense to me the gripping will be stronger

A square corner is what Nova recommends. However all of the top turners I have discussed this with cut the bird beak. If square corner works for you stick with it.

I think not cutting the little recess for the lip or bird beak is what causes so many problems. If there is any roundness in the corner or the wood is really hard, the tenon is going to walk out.


When I was doing a workshop for my club I mentioned what nova said as well as what I recommended which was cutting the little space for the bird beak.
I since it was a club workshop my assistant was an internationally known turner. Just for fun I asked him about the bird beak. Almost at the same time a national know turner dropped in to say hi so we asked him.
All three of us cut the space for the bird beak.
So the bird beak works for us.

Also see @Bill Blasic above.

 

[William Rogers]

I think not cutting the little recess for the lip or bird beak is what causes so many problems. If there is any roundness in the corner of the wood is really hard, the tenon is going to walk out.

Al, I have never heard of a problem in not cutting the recess or cutting the recess for the birds beak. I have never had a problem not cutting the recess. My take on not cutting the recess is the lip bites into the wood hard or soft pushing the jaw upwards and creating a firmer hold. I don’t cut the recess because I feel it is better and follows Novas recommendation. Many think you need to cut the recess, but it is not required and I wouldn’t.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

How’s the quality of the easy chuck? I like how easy it is to change the jaws, but debating if I should go for vicmarc 120 for quality reasons.

 

[GRJensen]

I have 5 chucks ... all Nova. 2 of them are G3's (they are 1" x 8tpi direct threads, so I use them with a 1-1/4" x 8tpi adapter). One of the G3's has pen-drilling jaws, the other 50mm jaws. I have 2 Infinity chucks with 8 sets of quick change jaws plus a set of Cole jaws set up with quick change adapters. The fifth chuck is a Titan II with deep bowl jaws. I have been happy with the Nova chucks. As pointed out above, they do what they are intended to do so long as you use them properly.

 

[Bill Boehme]

How’s the quality of the easy chuck? I like how easy it is to change the jaws, but debating if I should go for vicmarc 120 for quality reasons.

Well, you won't be disappointed with the Vicmarc chuck. My experience is mainly limited to Oneway and Vicmarc chucks and I like both. I like the versatility of the Oneway profiled jaws and I like the holding and remounting accuracy of the Vicmarc provided that the tenon is sized to match the prefect circle diameter of the jaws. If you decide to get the VM120 I recommend getting the direct drive mainly for the convenience of removing the chuck from the lathe without looking for the little tommy bar needed for the chuck that has a spindle adapter.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Well, you won't be disappointed with the Vicmarc chuck. My experience is mainly limited to Oneway and Vicmarc chucks and I like both. I like the versatility of the Oneway profiled jaws and I like the holding and remounting accuracy of the Vicmarc provided that the tenon is sized to match the prefect circle diameter of the jaws. If you decide to get the VM120 I recommend getting the direct drive mainly for the convenience of removing the chuck from the lathe without looking for the little tommy bar needed for the chuck that has a spindle adapter.

Thanks bill,

I have the VM100, I like vicmarc chucks and I was thinking of getting the VM120 but I always wondered about the quick change jaw chucks. Thanks for the tip on the direct thread ones, found it at woodworkers emporiums.