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Sealing wood

John Torchick

John Torchick

Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
3,058
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907
Location
Cleveland, Tennessee
I have some logs that were cut about two weeks ago. Right now, they are in an outside storage building. I have about a gallon of Anchor Seal and wonder if there is something else that can be used when the AS is gone. Thanks.
 
I started using 2 coats of latex paint on the ends of logs and I reserve my meager supply of Anchorseal for cut blanks and rough turnings. Still had a bit of checking on the logs but I think the paint helped quite a bit.
 
In this order here's what works. I have played with a lot in the last 10 years or so. When I first get the logs I just put plastic bags over the ends. If the logs are short I stack them so one end is on the ground and cover the other end. That will do nicely to save them from checking for up to a month or more until the bags start to deteriorate from UV exposure. You will get mold on the end but not a big deal. Then when I get time I seal with Anchorseal. I have tried lots of thing, some incredibly messy but cheap, some just don't work very well. Latex paint, 2 or more layers works fairly well. Anchorseal works best. when cut them up into bowl or vessel blanks I often dip then in canning wax. I have an electric skillet that I set at just above the melting point. This works extremely well but tends to start cracking after a year or so. It also sometimes causes mold. Anchorseal outdoes this but is slower to apply and kind of expensive. I have also used clear stretch wrap. It stops the wood from drying out really well but causes a lot of mold. However it's very quick, not messy and works pretty darn well.
 
Has anyone ever tried vacuum packing to prevent drying? I was thinking of trying it . I have 18” wide rolls that Could accommodate about 11 inch logs.
 
With the latex paint, do a couple of coats, then while it is still wet, slap some plastic on it. The paint by itself is a short term fix and adding the plastic makes a good seal. No idea who thought that one up, but read it some time ago and thought it sounded like a good idea. I have also used titebond as a sealer on smaller spindle blanks and it works pretty good. No idea how it compares price wise.

robo hippy
 
Dennis Weiner said:
Has anyone ever tried vacuum packing to prevent drying? I was thinking of trying it . I have 18” wide rolls that Could accommodate about 11 inch logs.
Click to expand...

That won't work ... at least not in the way that you hope it will. Here is what will happen:
  1. First you put the wet wood in a plastic bag, seal it and then use a vacuum pump to remove the air. And, then . . . .
  2. The first thing that you encounter is you can't seem to evacuate the bag. (scratch head and say hmm)
  3. What is going on?
    • First of all, there may be a lot of air in the wood unless it is a green tree that has been cut in the last day or two. The entrapped air takes a long time to be drawn out.
    • Second and more importantly, the wood is full of water and as soon as the pressure begins to drop, the liquid water is no longer in equilibrium with the water vapor pressure inside the sealed bag environment. This will cause liquid water to evaporate out of the wood until the pressure inside the bag is exactly the same as atmospheric pressure outside the bag.
  4. So, being tenacious, we decide to just run the vacuum pump a little longer. But we will realize sooner or later that as long as there is any moisture in the wood, the water will continue to evaporate as long as we run the vacuum pump and we will wind up with the same pressure inside the bag as it is outside the bag ... that is, until the vacuum pump sucks the wood completely dry of any moisture .... but, that sorts of defeats the whole point of keeping the wood from drying out too fast.
  5. The bottom line is it will only serve to suck moisture out of the wood faster than it would otherwise evaporate and, at the very best, won't be any better that putting the log in an ordinary plastic bag.
I prefer Anchorseal and so far, I haven't found anything that beats it for my local climate. There are some places (Hawaii and Gulf Coast, for example) where Anchorseal might slow down the rate of evaporation too much and lead to molding. I have used plastic stretch wrap a few times and if I leave it on for more than a few days the wood turns black with mold. My wife had practically cornered the world wax market judging by all the candles we have, but my experience with paraffin wax has been less than encouraging ... and for me it's a big mess ... some wax on the wood, a lot of wax on my clothing and shoes, and even more wax on the driveway.
 
Bill I have really good success using canning wax in my Electric skillet. Seldom produces any mess unless I drop a blank in it which did happen one day. I saw it splashing toward my face and thought oh no this is going to hurt. It didn't of course because the was melts at a low temperature. However it was hell cleaning it out of my mustache and I never got it out of my shirt. Other than that it's fantastic for saving smaller blanks. When my logs start to crack, which they will eventually no matter what you do, I cut them in half at the crack and then cut them up into turning squares. 6x6, 4x4, 3x3, etc down to 1x1 as long as the log blank. Then I seal the ends by dipping them in the wax. This works so well I now have to give wood away because I simply have too many blanks. For bowl blanks up to 12"x 5" I roll them in the wax to seal the edges and then dip the ends. These last a very long time before cracking (I'm talking years). It's much faster and not as messy as anchorseal.
 
I was in a pawn shop a few years ago that had odds and ends of paint, from quarts to five gallon buckets. Just wondering about latex paint. I like the idea of putting the plastic wrap over the wet paint. Will give it a try.
 
Many of the big box stores have a discount paint shelf that have cans of returned paint that was the wrong color. You can purchase (1) gallon and (5) gallon cans of latex paint at a good discount. I have used different colors to readily identify different species of wood when sealing the end grain on wood blanks. It can be a challenge remembering the different batches of wood that you collect and process over the years. Once the wood has been air dried and cut to the final size I usually seal the end grain with wax. Canning wax, Candle wax, Paraffin wax, any type of wax that turns to liquid when heated will work fine for sealing wood blanks.
 
Yes white and yellow glue works as a sealer. I thought it was a little expensive when I looked so I didn't pursue it very far. I don't typically have that much glue laying around. I tried roofing tar simply because i had it. It works but of course it's phenomenally messy. I also tried calking of various types. Again just because I had it but would not recommend it. It worked but takes more than 24 hours to dry if you put on a thick coat and at about $5 a tube isn't all the cheap either.
 
Years ago I frequented a walnut sawmill. One of their products was walnut gun stocks. They had a couple of 55 gallon drums about a quarter filled with paraffin. To melt the paraffin they kept a small fire going under the barrel. Dipped both ends of the green gun stocks to seal.

I have a roaster oven in the shop filled with paraffin that I use to dip the end of small turning pieces.DSCF9131.JPG

The problem with paraffin dips is the wood is cold while the wax is hot. Sometimes the paraffin pre-maturely cracks. Usually not a problem but Anchor Seal is better.

I have a sawmill and use Anchor Seal sometimes on high dollar logs. To be effective A S should be applied on the log within a few hours of it being bucked before any cracks start. A second coat should be applied a few days later. I don't see the commercial mills around me using it for three reasons. Its expensive, its expensive to apply properly, and end checks in lumber stop at the first sticker.

John, since your logs were cut a couple of weeks ago you have two choices. The checks have already started and will only get worse. Saw off 6” on each end and apply Anchor Seal. Second choice is get the logs sawed and put the lumber on sticks. That's the choice I would make.
 
The "Fry Daddy" oil cookers also have the adjustable thermostats that work good for melting and applying wax to wood blanks. You can use a cheap chip brush to apply the hot wax and leave it in the cooker and put the lid on when you are done sealing end grain on the wood. That is the reason I usually use latex paint or anchor seal on the initial logs or half logs. With the freshly cut green wood you have a high content of moisture in the wood and the hot wax heats and expands the water in the end grain, several coats of hot wax are usually required to overcome that issue. A cold applied compound works better on the freshly cut green wood that has a lot of water exiting the end grain the first couple of days. If I am running short on time I will at least cut the logs in half and then coat the end grain to prevent checking and cracking on fresh cut logs. You can always process these half logs into smaller blanks or trim them into a bowl blanks when time is available.
 
Larry, will check the logs again but, as of today, there were no cracks visible. Thanks for the tip.
 
Bill Boehme said:
That won't work ... at least not in the way that you hope it will. Here is what will happen:
  1. First you put the wet wood in a plastic bag, seal it and then use a vacuum pump to remove the air. And, then . . . .
  2. The first thing that you encounter is you can't seem to evacuate the bag. (scratch head and say hmm)
  3. What is going on?
    • First of all, there may be a lot of air in the wood unless it is a green tree that has been cut in the last day or two. The entrapped air takes a long time to be drawn out.
    • Second and more importantly, the wood is full of water and as soon as the pressure begins to drop, the liquid water is no longer in equilibrium with the water vapor pressure inside the sealed bag environment. This will cause liquid water to evaporate out of the wood until the pressure inside the bag is exactly the same as atmospheric pressure outside the bag.
  4. So, being tenacious, we decide to just run the vacuum pump a little longer. But we will realize sooner or later that as long as there is any moisture in the wood, the water will continue to evaporate as long as we run the vacuum pump and we will wind up with the same pressure inside the bag as it is outside the bag ... that is, until the vacuum pump sucks the wood completely dry of any moisture .... but, that sorts of defeats the whole point of keeping the wood from drying out too fast.
  5. The bottom line is it will only serve to suck moisture out of the wood faster than it would otherwise evaporate and, at the very best, won't any better that putting the log in an ordinary plastic bag.
I prefer Anchorseal and so far, I haven't found anything that beats it for my local climate. There are some places (Hawaii and Gulf Coast, for example) where Anchorseal might slow down the rate of evaporation too much and lead to molding. I have used plastic stretch wrap a few times and if I leave it on for more than a few days the wood turns black with mold. My wife had practically cornered the world wax market judging by all the candles we have, but my experience with paraffin wax has been less than encouraging ... and for me it's a big mess ... some wax on the wood, a lot of wax on my clothing and shoes, and even more wax on the driveway.
Click to expand...
I always enjoy reading the threads about what to do with cut logs. Seems to be a never ending story. Problem is that the advice from someone in Phoenix won't work for someone in Portland. I have so much wood that I can't afford to use anchor seal, nor to spend hours painting the ends, but, I'm lucky, I don't have to. I can see the rain the forest from my house... I just cut the logs a little wider, I hardly loose any of the common woods that I use. Some, no matter what you do they Crack beyond recognition, like Macadamia Nut... I can see been an important issue when you only have little wood... Anchor seal because of the shipping is very expensive here, I reserve it's use for some rough turned blanks, and seldom I paint a curly Koa log that's worth $120 a board foot with latex paint, seems to works just as good as AS.
 
Lamar Wright said:
John Is canning wax same as Paraffin wax?
Click to expand...

Canning wax is one type of paraffin wax and what we are most likely to encounter. Generally, the only difference between that and candle wax is the colors and perfumes and glitter added to candle wax. Early candles were made with animal fats.
 
There is a turner in Argentina that boils down animal fat for endless hours, ends up with a wax like substance. Now that Bill told us early candles were made with animal fat, his madness sort of makes sense. He has a YouTube video, he even included the trip to the butcher, lol.
 
Well for me I use what there is to hand. I picked up a gallon of Titebond well under half price mixed 50/50 with water that lasted a while Ceiling paint works ok, PVA for paper thinned out 60/40, 40 being water, leftover varnish spray packs and even mineral turpentine and styrofoam.
Come summer I need to seal green wood very quickly as the temps will 40'C [ 104F] at any time through the summer. In the shop last summer it hit 47'C [ 116+F ] on the worst day and humidity can be very low at times.
 
If you do use parrafin wax I would not get it anywhere near a flame. It's flashpoint is 480 degrees F. That's why I use the electric frying pan or something like the Frydaddy. You can melt it at about 160 degrees or so and keep it well below the flashpoint, and you never get near a flame.
 
I have never used anything but latex primer to seal blanks. Anchorseal is not available here in Yukon Territory and to have it shipped here doubles the cost. Aside from what we use to seal our blanks, would you say there is any benefit or negative aspects of sealing the entire blank?
 
I seal the entire blank and put it up on a shelf. In my area anything less and either the bugs get it or it cracks. I do have pretty good success with sealing just the end grain areas but on many bowl blanks there are so many end grain areas that it's easier to just go ahead and seal it all. On hollow vessels that have straight grain I rarely seal anything but the ends.
 
Sealing the entire wood blank will slow down the drying process of a green wood blank. Sealing the end grain only allows the wood blank to slowly dry from the expose sides of the blanks that usually have spaces between the rows and stacks of green wood blanks. There are a number of wood suppliers that coat the entire wood blank in wax after the wood has been dried and processed into sized billets and ready for resale. I can only assume they dip the entire wood blank in a container of hot wax to speed up the application process.
 
I picked up some wood at the GA symposium last year and they were completely coated in wax.
 
If you use paraffin be sure the wood is warm when you apply it. I used it outside one cold winter day. It did not penetrate at all and simply flaked off leaving me with badly checked Walnut.

Terence
 
John,
1 gallon of Anchorseal can last a surprisingly long time. We get more green wood than I can turn (40 or more rough bowl blanks a year and a similar volume of spindle blanks) and a gallon lasts me several years.
 
Phone? What phone?
OK, got the yard work caught up. Got the AS, old ice cream pail and two cheap brushes to do the job. The wife even pitched in and helped. Who says we don't spend quality time together? Some of the older logs are showing cracks but when it cools down a bit, I'll get the chainsaw out and get the Mrs. to help. Cut off a few inches and seal with AS. Need to check that pawn shop and see if they are still in business and have the odds and ends of paint. The wife mentioned that Lowe's had some paint on sale- returned for whatever reason. Never understood that policy.
 
Most big box stores have paint that is returned because the color mixed was wrong. Good bargain if you don't need a specific color for the job.
 
Okay, I spent the day with a bunch of Sycamore and Cottonwood. As soon as the temps cool some, I need to go out there and do some sealing.

3.jpg 2.jpg 1.jpg
 
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I too use Anchor Seal and I also use paraffin wax. The Anchor seal, I use on fresh cut log ends and sometimes on band sawed blanks. I like to dip the ends of green wood spindle blanks and also roll the sides of my bowl blanks in paraffin melted in a large electric roaster. But may I suggest those of you that are in active AAW Chapters should do like we do in Palmetto Woodturners ( Columbia SC) Buy a 55 gallon drum and fill gallon jugs which we sell to members for $12. We have our members resign for the number of gallons they commit to buy before ordering the drum of Anchor Seal and we want order the drum until we have 45 gallons committed for. Great deal and benefit for our members. I buy my paraffin wax in the food canning section of Walmart and often find sales on it. PS: I don't completely emerge my wood into the paraffin wax as it seals in the moisture as well and I have had to scrape off areas of blanks I purchased tp allow it to dry.
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I always enjoy reading the threads about what to do with cut logs. Seems to be a never ending story. Problem is that the advice from someone in Phoenix won't work for someone in Portland. I have so much wood that I can't afford to use anchor seal, nor to spend hours painting the ends, but, I'm lucky, I don't have to. I can see the rain the forest from my house... I just cut the logs a little wider, I hardly loose any of the common woods that I use. Some, no matter what you do they Crack beyond recognition, like Macadamia Nut... I can see been an important issue when you only have little wood... Anchor seal because of the shipping is very expensive here, I reserve it's use for some rough turned blanks, and seldom I paint a curly Koa log that's worth $120 a board foot with latex paint, seems to works just as good as AS.
Click to expand...
Have you tried keeping kiave (aka camelthorn), imported by the early missionaries to keep the natives from jumping in the bushes on impulse and going "ka launa puana" or "paani-paani", ....from splitting and cracking?

I have several hundred board ft of koa that I bought from Campell-Burns (a loging company in Hilo in the 70's. It was "run-of the mill" so there is-was some curly, but has been picked out. I wonder what it is worth now? all 8/4.
 
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