Ponding, ie. soaking bowl stock

[Jamie Straw]

I believe it is the excess sugars inherent in most maple that cause the quick surface mold/mildew. Probably the same reason spalting is so easy in maple. I too have had this occurrence from time to time. I wipe the anchorsealed surface down with a rag dampened with a mildicide (the kind meant for fogging cellars or basements) and it clears right up. I don't soak it because I dint want to transfer it unto the wood. That kind of mold/mildew is not terribly dangerous unless you have an allergen (opinion, not a doctor scientist or lawyer).
Maple us quite resilient, so sometimes I add heat in my refrigerator bowl kiln for a week then heat and a fan for two weeks. After that no mold/mildew ever shows up. Probably some good science in there somewhere.

Yeah, I wouldn't soak it either. Didn't know there was a fogger that would kill off mildew, hmmmm. It dawned on me the other day, I should set up a small fan when I have these piles of wood chunks in the shop. Just point it at the stack, might help.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I have played with the soap a lot, but haven't noticed that it does anything other than make sanding a lot easier. I do agree with the sugar content in maple making it way more likely to mold. Other than bleach, I don't know what else could be added to the water to keep the wood from molding.

robo hippy

Don't they make a mildew stopper that's a paint additive? Or is that a stray dream? Was thinking it could be added to Anchorseal.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

As for ponding and mold, I have noticed a decrease in the mold resistance of alder after coming out of the water and rough turning, prior to dropping below ~20% MC.

The maple I had was just the opposite (soft maple ornamental of some variety or other.) Green, not ponded soft maple wanted to mold in no time flat, but the stock I ponded didn't mold at all after a year of ponding and then rough turning. I didn't change the ponding water, and there was all sorts of bacterial growth that presumably ate many of the sugars. I'm guessing I had some some sort of natural ferment going on—and my limited research suggests that much of the ponding way back when was also working with slight bacterial decomposition.

I'd say it's worth an experiment. If it works for cabbage and sauerkraut, seems like it might work for maple.

 

[Ted Moore]

mildewcide

The stuff I have used is called microban. http://www.baneclene.com/catalog/microban.html
It works really well as a disinfectant. I first ran across it from my wife's massage therapy business. They use it to clean the table between customers. Apparently kills many living organisms, but not harmful to large mammals. A side use is to fog mildew or mold prone areas. Safer than bleach.
Never thought about adding it to the barrel though.

 

[Jamie Straw]

The stuff I have used is called microban. http://www.baneclene.com/catalog/microban.html
It works really well as a disinfectant. I first ran across it from my wife's massage therapy business. They use it to clean the table between customers. Apparently kills many living organisms, but not harmful to large mammals. A side use is to fog mildew or mold prone areas. Safer than bleach.
Never thought about adding it to the barrel though.

Ted, thanks for that link and information. Living in the Great Northwest, on Puget Sound, mold is a continuous problem. I think I will find this product useful!

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Well, I finished turned the bowl of the ponded alder that sat underwater for a year. I'm really happy with the stability of the wood. This was from the stump of the tree with crazy stresses, and the bowl dried with almost no cracking. It's hard to say if warping was less, since it was such a wild piece. The opposite side of this bowl has a knot running rim to foot, and there was no cracking.. I wanted to see what I could get away with, and surprisingly, I did. Unfortunately I didn't get a very good picture of that side before sending the bowl on its way. You can see the knot running the height over the bowl in the second photo, but the reflection is somewhat obscuring it.



I also ran across some new info on ponding that might suggest leaving a bowl submerged for as little as two weeks. It's from Thomas Tedgold's 1820 book, Elementary Principles of Carpentry:

On account of the time required to season timber the natural way, various methods have been tried to effect the same purpose in a shorter time. One of the best of these is to immerse the timber in water as soon as it is cut down, and after it has remained about a fortnight in water, but not more, to take it out, and dry it in an airy situation.

Evelyn directs, to "lay your boards a fortnight in water (if running the better, as at a mill-pond head) and then setting them upright in the sun and wind, so as it may pass freely through them, turning them daily; and, thus treated, even newly-sawn boards will floor far better than those of a many years dry seasoning, as they call it:" * and he adds, "I the oftener insist on this water seasoning, not only as a remedy against the worm, but for its efficacy against warping and distortions of timber, whether used within or exposed to the air."

Duhamel, who made many experiments on this important subject, states, that timber for the joiner's use is best put in water for some time, and afterwards dried; as it renders the timber less liable to warp and crack in drying; but, he adds, " where strength is required it ought not to be put in water." And he found, from numerous experiments, that timber which had remained some time in fresh water lost more of its weight in drying than that which was dried under cover; and he observed that green timber that had been steeped in water for some time was always covered with a gelatinous substance

Timber that has been cut when the tree was full of sap, and particularly when that sap is of a saccharine nature, must be materially benefited by steeping in water; because it will undoubtedly remove the greater part of the fermentable matter. Duhamel has ascertained that the sap-wood of oak is materially improved by it, being much less subject to be worm-eaten; and also that the tender woods, such as alder and the like, are less subject to the worm when water-seasoned. Beech is said to be much benefited by immersion; and green elm, according to Evelyn, if plunged four or five days in water (especially salt water) obtains an admirable seasoning.​

I won't be roughing green wood for a few months, but I'll give the two week soak a try after rough turning.

​

 

[Bill Boehme]

Here's hoping that your timbers will be much benefitted by steeping them in water for a fortnight. 🙂

Very interesting research.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I found pictures of the knot that goes from foot to rim of the ponded alder bowl. I was sure surprised to finish turn this bowl and find not ever a hint of cracking in that knot. Sorry the pictures aren't better.