Paying demonstrators - down the road

[C Edward Moore]

So as to avoid stealing the thread I have started a new one. And, my comments and concluding questions below may shift the direction a little.

I was the Program Director for SMLW for several years. We are 45 minutes or so from most of the members of a second club, the Blue Ridge Woodturners. In fact many of us belong to both clubs. If I invited a member of BRW to demo I paid them $40 or so and fed them a meal at our home on the evening of their demo. If the BRW member was nationally known, then he was paid his fee because he did an all day demo.

I never paid a club member to do an evening demo and feel that this is appropriate. On the other hand, if a club member does an all day demo then they should be compensated because the preparation effort required increases exponentially as the time increases linearly. If we had a member who was a professional demonstrator then it would be fair to expect them to do an evening "freebie" every two years or so. But, they should not be taken advantage of and be expected to serve as the default club demonstrator.

I predict that we are going to see some changes in the woodturning landscape as the number of professionals and professional demonstrators increases. We have long enjoyed an open and shared environment and I feel that this is because the demand has greatly exceeded the supply. Clubs tend to range from 25 to 75 members (my guess) and they can afford one or maybe two pros a year. We are all aware of larger clubs, but they are the exception, I think. The number of clubs is increasing, but not as rapidly as the number of people hoping to do professional demonstrations. So, as the demand decreases and return engagements are limited, I expect the market to change. I wonder if it is going to be like professional golf and some older demonstrators will become passe' and then become part of a senior circuit, getting fewer demonstration opportunities.

I encourage each of you to get out your crystal ball and give us your view of what you see down the road in the wonderful world of woodturning. Will market changes affect the sharing of techniques and ideas? What is the future for the itinerant demonstrators who have helped us grow as turners as they go around sharing their knowledge and the gospel of woodturning?

 

[George Guadiane]

2 Cents

I predict that we are going to see some changes in the woodturning landscape as the number of professionals and professional demonstrators increases. We have long enjoyed an open and shared environment and I feel that this is because the demand has greatly exceeded the supply. Clubs tend to range from 25 to 75 members (my guess) and they can afford one or maybe two pros a year. We are all aware of larger clubs, but they are the exception, I think. The number of clubs is increasing, but not as rapidly as the number of people hoping to do professional demonstrations. So, as the demand decreases and return engagements are limited, I expect the market to change. I wonder if it is going to be like professional golf and some older demonstrators will become passe' and then become part of a senior circuit, getting fewer demonstration opportunities.

I missed the Portland event , but they did a REALLY CLASSY thing in having the old world old style Japanese turners come and give demonstrations and show their work. AAW also provided some turning stock from Japan for some of the "new age" turners to show their "stuff" on.
I said that to say that you can't build a house without a good foundation - Woodturning has unavoidable and inescapable basics that anyone new to the art will need to have, and guys like me will need to refresh all of the time. I don't know if I see "passe" as the consequence of innovation in our field, I think Venerated is more likely. Old school is what we all build on, so I am thinking that it will always be with us... For instance;
In the few demonstrations I have done, I STARTED out by mentioning that I was glad that "I'm not here to teach technique." Which wasn't true at all, and the fact that I said it out loud caused me to think about and use better technique in demos, but more importantly, in my day to day work (made me a better turner AND demonstrator - Thank You Nick Cook).
I think I have a couple of interesting ideas for building different segmented turning blanks, and the designs that I think will bring out the best in the blanks, but I couldn't have had the ideas without having some basic idea of how things work, and what has come before.

I encourage each of you to get out your crystal ball and give us your view of what you see down the road in the wonderful world of woodturning. Will market changes affect the sharing of techniques and ideas? What is the future for the itinerant demonstrators who have helped us grow as turners as they go around sharing their knowledge and the gospel of woodturning?

I have no idea how fast this field is growing, or who the "newbies" will be... I didn't start turning till I was in my 50's, and the bulk of the people I see coming into it seem to be at or near retirement. So there is probably already money available from that crew. I am guessing that most of them will have learned that the basics in life are what makes that to come easier, and will want to learn old school first.
Beyond that, any/every time you put money into the mix, people want it, and want to figure out how to get more of it (no matter how much they have)... SOooooo, demonstrations by "experts" will become more expensive, and out of reach for smaller clubs, the bush league/farm team guys (on the way up and down) will eek out a living and those just starting out will do about anything to get some attention, in hopes of "getting in on the action."

As a side note, I want to mention that I was ASTOUNDED and delighted at the ease with which turners as a whole have imparted their knowledge, wisdom and insight. It has made the art much more fun and very friendly. While I hope to make some money at it, I still intend to be as generous as the people I have met so far, and I hope that those to come keep up the spirit of what I think has really helped to make turning great.

 

[john lucas]

I had some fun thinking about and laughing at some of this. Interesting question. I love the thought of a Senior tour. The problem is the seniors only get better instead of losing ground like in golf. Besides that How can I call John Jordan and Clay foster seniors when I'm the same age. Very funny.
I think as long as we are open to sharing we create new turners who like to share. For one thing it boosts your ego to think you have some knowledge that others desire. I think that's natural. consequently I think we will always have a fairly good seed of new turning instructors.
When it comes to fees I think for local club demonstrators the best bet is to simply ask, would you demonstrate for us and how much would you charge. Most would probably not charge and that gives the professional in your club a chance to either do a freebie demo or charge the going rate. It's been my experience that the local pro will usually do a demo at no charge as long as you don't take advantage of them by asking them all the time or expecting an all day demo. Like I said, be upfront and give them the chance to respond the way they feel the most comfortable.
There's apparently a lot of money out there (I don't have it). Why else would a new turner buy a Oneway 2436 like one of our new club members. Because of this the big name turners can, and probably should, ask for more money. If they get too high their schedule will drop off and they will either have to quit demonstrating or make adjustments to their fee.

 

[Garmar]

The economy and simple supply and demand will answer most of the questions concerning fees. As far as where the "field of woodturning" will be in the future, look to the past. The passion, the art, the medium itself will continually be in flux, AND, the evolution/progression probably hasn't been imagined yet.

 

[Jake Debski]

I predict that we are going to see some changes in the woodturning landscape as the number of professionals and professional demonstrators increases. We have long enjoyed an open and shared environment and I feel that this is because the demand has greatly exceeded the supply. Clubs tend to range from 25 to 75 members (my guess) and they can afford one or maybe two pros a year. We are all aware of larger clubs, but they are the exception, I think. The number of clubs is increasing, but not as rapidly as the number of people hoping to do professional demonstrations. So, as the demand decreases and return engagements are limited, I expect the market to change. I wonder if it is going to be like professional golf and some older demonstrators will become passe' and then become part of a senior circuit, getting fewer demonstration opportunities.

The most pertinent facts have already been voiced on Ed's subject, club size, new directions of the art/craft, costs,etc. In house demonstrator's compensation doesn't have to be always a cash payment. Donated wood, gift certificates, cost reimbursement for printed materials, are some of the ways ways to express appreciation for their efforts.

It would be a mistake (my opinion) for a chapter program director to schedule only the "hot new big name pros" to do the clubs annual or simi-annual pro demo. Most clubs need a mix of solid, basic to intermediate, technique teaching as well as the "push the envelope" art demos. As has been mentioned, a good foundation is necessary. But also all members, newbe to advanced must be considered when booking a pro. So the "new hot shots" and the "old pro" will always have something to offer.