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Making Turningtools

Ron Sardo
Those tools look great.The one with the Ellsworth grind, I believe, and the handle look like they came off the shelf of one of the major tool makers. Nice job Ron. The spindle gouge without the flute looks good also. I made one of these but didn't flatten the top back so far the first time I worked on it. I put a side grind on it and it cut great. Next day I ground an Ellsworth grind on it and didn't do as well. Couldn't roll the too completely around when grinding the wings.Ordered a 46 grit Norton white wheel and am going to make another without the flute. Found a supplier that sells the 1/2" wheels to cut the flute. Only the bore diameter is 1 1/4". Will make another with the Ellsworth grind on this gouge. Love that grind. Ron how do you know when Doug has his gouges ready to sell and how do you order one?Think he said they were out for hardening last week I think. Once again Ron your tools look very good and thank you so much for posting the picture of them to this thread. Mitch
 
Thanks Mitchell, but... its different angles of the same tool.

Here is a link to buy Doug's tools, I highly recommend them.
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/pricelist.asp

I had to play around until I got the right angles that I felt comfortable with. I tried dozens of grinds on the 1/4" tool until I got it right. This one that I'm showing (the 3/8" tool) took about 4 or 5 tries and is similar to the smaller tool.

If you noticed on the bottom of the grind is rounded it over, something I picked up from Doug Thompson, and Johannes M. (I can't even try to spell his last name, but he is the Hat man). All the grinds on their gouges are convex instead on the more common concave grind. (I didn't round over the bottom of the grind on the smaller tool)
 
(I figured out how to post images to this forum so I'm reposting this here)

In many ways my tool works very similar to a detail gouge. In other ways it ways, similar to a bowl gouge. Even though this is not really a gouge and more of a scraper, I call it a fluteless gouge because of the way it handles and the way I use it.

One thing I love about this tool is the way I can clean up the bottom of a bowl, both inside and outside. It also works great on cleaning up the outside bottom and lid of a box (which I turn mostly). The finish cut is so smooth that I do not need to sand if I do not wish to. When I do, I can start at 320 or 400. I tried doing this with a detail gouge and it didn't work as well. (Maybe its me?)

I start at the outside edge at around 45 degrees with the tip pointing at around 1:00 o'clock (I never really measured it) and by the time I'm at the center, this tool is almost at 3 o'clock. I never had a problem with the tool skating.

There is no problem with debris removal, but I'm only taking finishing cuts. I don't use it to hog out or into plunge material.

I never tired cutting the inside of a box with this tool, so I'm not sure how that would work.

This is what I use and I like it. I know Cindy Droza and Keith Thompkin use a 1/4" fluteless gouge. In matter of fact, this is where I got the idea from. I decided to try a larger tool and all I can say is it works great.

Now, since I have a bigger tool, I only use the smaller one for finials and ornament icicles. It leaves a nice sharp edge and very little sanding is ever needed.

Enjoy!
 

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That for showing me that Gordon.

My tool does look a little like Skewchigouge, and some ways does work the same. I have used my tool similar to a skew like Scott does (but I do run my lathe at a faster RPM)

My grind is completely different, closer to an "Ellsworth" while the Skewchigouge is more like a conventional grind of yesteryear.
http://www2.woodcraft.com/pdf/77B87.pdf

But the bottom line is they are basically the same idea, except I'm using Thompson Steel :cool2: so mine's gotta be better 😀
 
Ron
Thanks for posting your tool here. Looks like you gring the nose and then turn each side and hold the metal to the grinder then do same thing on the other side. In other words you don't roll the tool as you grind it to an Elsworth grind. Maybe I am seeing it wrong. Thanks for the link to Dougs tools. I rounded the bottom of my gouges a few times but never saw any advantage in doing so. Thanks again. Mitch
 
Mitch, I wasn't going to post a pic of the first gouge I made as I figured you had enough good advice but I had this shot so I figured what the heck. The gouge in question is second from left in both views of the first image below. This is the one I ground the flute on using the tablesaw. I still use it now and then after almost 20 years. There was no reason to grind the flute so long, I could've just did the tip as Doug mentioned. But you know what they say about hindsight. 😉

The first tool is my parting tool, from a HSS portable planer blade. Many of these blades have only a thin bonded layer of HSS, with usually a telltale layer of thin copper between that and the base steel. This was an exception, solid HSS. The blade on this, instead of the usual diamond profile, is flat on one side and curved on the other. I think it gives the maximum amount of clearance when making a cone-shaped cut, such as when parting off the base of a goblet for example. It also seems to have less resistance in the cut, especially since the blade is polished for about 3 inches from the tip.

After my gouge is a small detail gouge I recently made from a cheapo carbon steel spearpoint chisel. Last is my chatter tool design, seen at http://www.crwoodturner.com/chatterwork/index.html

One thing I did want to mention is the type of grinding wheel I use for shaping steel. I use a 4" angle grinder with a Norzon reinforced wheel, which cuts steel like butter. I exaggerate a bit, but it is the fastest cutting wheel I've ever used. Made by Norton--pic attached below. Usual disclaimer: just a satisfied customer, nothing more!
 

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Ken Grunke
Thanks for posting the pictures of your self made tools. I am glad you did, gives me some moral support. I been reading so many things about how to do this from so many great guys I get mixed up a bit. Your tools look great and the one with the flute looks much better than I expected. Couple questions though to make sure Ken. You used that 4" wheel on your tablesaw? What is the thickness of the wheel and is the hole diameter 5/8" ? If I remember right you said you made a shallow cut then cranked the elevation up about 1/16" and cut again? Did you make any kind of jig to keep the bar from turning or anything to hold the metal down or kicking back? Did you just guess on the depth of the flute. I think they say for a bowl gouge cut just over half way deep and for a spindle gouge cut less than half the thickness of the rod. Well whatver works for me I will find out soon. I ordered a new Norton 46 grit wheel and it should be here on friday. Still not sure about the cutter to cut the flute though.How wide is that Norzon wheel again? Thanks Ken and I will be posting how I made out . Mitch
 
Mitch, I didn't use the angle grinder for that gouge, wish I did as that would have been easier and safer than the tablesaw with an 8" cutoff wheel. Let's forget the tablesaw method, unless you want to risk burning your shop down.

If I were to make another fluted gouge, I'd clamp the tool blank in a vise with the business end pointing away from me. Hold the angle grinder with the wheel facing to the right so the sparks fly away from you. Brace the arm holding the grinder against something solid so you have good control and grind a short flute on the end of the tool blank, no need to be longer than an inch or so.

As far as depth of flute, and it's shape (profile), I'll refer you to a discussion in another thread started by Gordon Seto earlier this year, with a good amount of valuable discussion on this subject:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=4934

The flute in my gouge is too deep for most uses, with a thin cutting edge. It was a learning experience which served me well in the beginning.
 
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All turners interested in this thread, Question?
I was looking at some Grizzly tools today and came across a mini milling machine for $600.Was thinking this couldn't be much of a machine at that price. Anyone on this thread ever work on a milling machine? I never worked on one myself but a company I managed had one and I used to watch them work once in a while.Could one of these spindle or bowl gouges be made on this milling machine? Would appreciate some input on this so I can get it out of my head. Thanks. Mitch
 
The $600 for the machine is only a start. Mills (cutters) and other tooling will be necessary. You can buy a lot of gouges for what that machine shop would cost you.

Hope this is negative enough to get the idea out of your head. 😀

Charlie M
 
I am in the process of making myself another little termite hollowing tool. Waiting for the steel from Enco to arrive to do this job. In the meantime I got interested in guys that turn captured rings and the tools that they make from allen wrenches to turn the rings. Anyone on this thread have any suggestions as to how these tools are made? I never turned a captured ring before but turned a bunch of goblets. Would like to make the tool first and then turn the rings. First question is, what size allen wrench would be ideal for the tool. I am guessing but I would say 1/4" would be ok and I have a 3' piece of 1/4" HSS rod that I could use. Any help would be appreciated. Mitch
 
Making Gouges - Oops!

Charlie M said:
The $600 for the machine is only a start. Mills (cutters) and other tooling will be necessary. You can buy a lot of gouges for what that machine shop would cost you.

Hope this is negative enough to get the idea out of your head. 😀

Charlie M
Click to expand...

My turning club mentor is a long time machinist by day and wood turner by night. His shop is full of metal working machines. He makes lots of tools and runs club demos on making tools. He does not make his gouges.

John🙂
 
Mitchell Cholewinski said:
All turners interested in this thread, Question?
I was looking at some Grizzly tools today and came across a mini milling machine for $600.Was thinking this couldn't be much of a machine at that price. Anyone on this thread ever work on a milling machine? I never worked on one myself but a company I managed had one and I used to watch them work once in a while.Could one of these spindle or bowl gouges be made on this milling machine? Would appreciate some input on this so I can get it out of my head. Thanks. Mitch
Click to expand...

Starting with the machine, and by the way, don't go with a mill/drill, then the cutters, sure, but them the learning curve and after you are done there, then learn heat treating. For that, you will need a kiln....

I know there are plenty of people who make thier own tools and then do thier own heat treating, but personally, even though I have all of those tools, I would rather buy the gouges. Even a high end Thompson gouge at about $75 is still cheaper than I can make it, and the quality is far better.
 
Mitch I'll second the idea of the additional expense after you buy the lathe. I didn't buy the Smithy until I knew I had enough money to spend an equal amount on tooling. I still need lots more tooling but I'm getting there. It looks to me like you could easily spend 3 times the price of the equipement to get set up to really use it. Of course I'm looking at making gears and all sorts of things. If all you needed to do is mill the flutes on gouges you obviously don't need that much. I bought a mill/drill for $400 and used it a fair amount before getting the smithy. It was not a precision piece of equipment but I was able to get around many of it's poor qualities.
 
Gouges

I've made some gouges using my grinder. I took an old wheel and profiled it to the preferred shape of the flute using a carborumdum stone. Then I ground the flute in only the first inch or two. When I grind that away, I can repeat the process.

The stone shops I know use the same process for making a special molding for a short run of marble. It's a process that came over with the old school Italians

Angelo
 
The problem with making your own tools, as I see it isn't grinding out the metal so much as heat treating, since it is tough to grind heat treated steel to make a gouge and still have it retain much of it's heat treating.
I have a kiln that I use for glass that I had them zoop up to go to 2300f so that I could heat treat also. I did a few batches of O2 steel and it worked ok, but them i wanted to work with more exotic stuff. To do powder metals the process gets real tight. So I talked with some heat treaters (and this was a few years ago), it was about $100 to start the kiln, so much per pound and then an energy charge of so much per pound. It was cheaper to buy them and even if it was some tool I couldn't find, still cheaper to contract it out.

I have a Mill (mill/drill) and a metal lathe and tooling. But for gouges, you would probably want custom ground mill bits, which adds to it as well.
 
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