M42 Continental Gouge?

[Randy Anderson]

I want to add 1 or 2 more 1" continental style gouges to my arsenal. I turn very large hollow forms and currently have a repurposed 1" SRG ground like a continental gouge. It has a flute profile and thickness very similar to a traditional continental gouge. It works great but, holding an edge is a challenge. It's a low $ Hurricane brand I picked up online.

I can easily find Sorby or other better quality 1" continental gouges online but cannot find anyone that makes one out of M42 steel. When shaping the outside of a 32" hollow form there's a lot of terrain to cover so keeping a good edge long enough to keep a consistent curve over a good distance matters. Before I pick up a couple more HSS continental gouges does anyone know of a mfg that makes them from M42?

 

[John Grace]

Suggest you contact Thompson of Thompson tools. You may to pay extra for the specs you're looking for and I know Doug has made me 'one offs' on two separate occasions. good luck...

 

[Randy Anderson]

Thanks John, will do. I have a number of his gouges already and like his quality.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

In the 2 minutes of searching I just did, with the same results, a common theme came up- continental-style gouges are forged, not milled/machined from bar stock. My question- can M42 be forged (heated and deformed into another shape)? If not, this may explain why we don't see them. I'm sure the style could be machined, but there may be some higher production costs. Check with Carter and Son, they only make M42 turning tools.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Steve, good observation. I’ll check. Thx.

 

[robo hippy]

There is a guy on You Tube, Alex Steel or some thing like that, and he did forge some M42. It ain't easy, but it can be done.... An M42 HSS Continental style gouge could be nice to have in the arsenal. Maybe D Way would make one. They would probably mill it rather than forge it.

robo hippy

 

[Dean Center]

There are powdered metal SRGs. Would that steel do what you want?

 

[john lucas]

Particle metal steel that's high quality and has been properly hardened and cryogenically treated like thompson tools will hold an edge as long or longer than other steels. You wound need a blank and the grind it to shape. Forging m42 or othe high speed steels would take a lot if skill and probably specialized furnaces to reharden the steel.

 

[Bill Alston]

I’ve got a Crown Cryogenic Roughing gouge that’s quite nice. Not sure of size but it’s milled from a round bar rather than forged like many SRG’s

 

[Randy Anderson]

Dean, buying a larger powdered/particle metal standard SRG is an option. I could regrind the end to more of a continental shape. That's what I have now, although the steel isn't great or my sharpening skills need work. Likely both. I've never owned a true continental shaped gouge but from all the pics I see the flute profile is different and from what I've read more suited to what I'm doing. My current modified 1" SRG has a flute profile that seemed open enough to work and so far, after many miles of using it. it works well. Just thought if I was in the market for a new tool to try and buy one made for what I do out of good quality steel rather than modify one. At this point I think my best option is to get a Sorby 1" continental to at least not have to sharpen as often.

 

[Bill Blasic]

JoHannes Michelsen sells a BRG (Bowl Roughing Gouge) made of 10V Steel (Thompson Built). He also made the adapters to sharpen it on the Vector Grind Fixture. This tool removes a lot of wood very fast.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Cheap M42 is a waste of money. Even good steel is worthless if it's not tempered correctly and thoroughly (preferably through most of the length of the steel, as in D-Way).

 

[Jamie Straw]

I’ve got a Crown Cryogenic Roughing gouge that’s quite nice. Not sure of size but it’s milled from a round bar rather than forged like many SRG’s

Round stock would seem much safer for this re-purposing project. The small flat tang on most SRGs is what makes them so dangerous to use on bowls.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Jamie, all of my bowl and spindle gouges are DWay or Thompson. Very happy with those but neither of them make a continental gouge and I hate to repurpose a tool again plus, a repurposed 1" SRG still has a deeper flute than a continental. The cheap 1" SRG I have repurposed works great for me in shaping the outside contour of large hollow forms but want to actually try a continental gouge with better steel and so far Sorby seems to be the easiest answer. Even those have the smaller flat tang which is OK since I'll be using it as it's intended.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

Crown makes a 3/4" one in M42, probably one of my favorite gouges (bought a backup even in case they stop making it).

Crown Hand Tools M42 Razor Edge Cryo - 3/4" Forged Spindle Gouge | Woodcraft

Buy the M42 Razor Edge Cryo - 3/4" Forged Spindle Gouge for sale online from Woodcraft. Visit us to order online or find your local Woodcraft store today!

www.woodcraft.com

It seems like all of their M42 offerings drop off after 3/4" though.

You have to go pretty far afield to find it, but you can get a Crown 1 1/4" in M2 Cyro:

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

www.dictum.com

 

[robo hippy]

I really don't know if there are any continental style SRGs out there made from M42 or V10. I do have one, about 2 inches wide, made by Henry Taylor tools. I do have more experience with the standard SRG than with the continental styles. I probably use the skew more than I use my SRGs.

robo hippy

 

[John Whitley]

@Randy Anderson let me know if you find end up looking into a custom order

You have to go pretty far afield to find it, but you can get a Crown 1 1/4" in M2 Cyro:

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

www.dictum.com

I note that Dictum page lists a range of available sizes for that gouge, including 24mm at €139.00 each

 

[Randy Anderson]

I've looked at those, and others, they're standard spindle gouge shapes and flutes. What I'm looking for is something like in the pics. This was a 1" SRG that I reground and is fairly close to what I understand as a continental flute profile. A bit deeper and I have the wings further back but close. The B&W image is what I'm looking for. Now, all that said, I've never even held much less used a continental gouge but my understand that for what I'm doing, working very long curve profiles over large pieces and needing to remove a good bit of material when needed, they're ideal. I do know that the modified tool I have does work well and I can still work fine cuts with it. I may be over analyzing the issue but thought if I'm going to spend $150 on a tool, try to get the right one for the job.

Thanks for all the search and idea help. I figure if it's out there one of you would have found it.

 

[hughie]

In the 2 minutes of searching I just did, with the same results, a common theme came up- continental-style gouges are forged, not milled/machined from bar stock. My question- can M42 be forged (heated and deformed into another shape)? If not, this may explain why we don't see them. I'm sure the style could be machined, but there may be some higher production costs. Check with Carter and Son, they only make M42 turning tools.

M42 will take a good edge and hold it longer than most other steels, from my perspective a M42 gouge tip much like the Woodcut Tip Gouge would provide one of the best cutting edges. If on top of that you ran it through the Thompson cryogenic system it would have very few equals.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Here is a side by side comparison of a Thompson SRG and the original BRG. The SRG is 1 1/4" steel and the BRG is 1" steel (and I have the vector grind on it). This peels wood off bowls like nobody's business. 10V steel that stays sharp for a long time.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Thanks for the input, pictures and search assistance. Decided yesterday to pull the trigger on a Sorby 1" continental gouge. Since I want to compare it to my current repurposed gouge to see if the difference is noticeable and if so, an improvement, I'll know then where to go next. Might be a couple of these ready to go or I switch to an M42 or 10V SRG that I reshape like my current one.

 

[Dean Center]

Randy, the Crown tool that Chris referenced with the Woodcraft link appears to be a continental style gouge. It's described as 'forged', which seems to confirm. Maybe look again as it's pretty much what you asked for.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Dean, I did look at that one and almost picked it up since, as you noticed, it does look like a continental shape and has the tang in the handle which supports it being forged - I think. I might still give it a try. The description didn't give any hints that it was a different flute or shape than a traditional spindle gouge and I've noticed in other sites that sometimes the stock picture might be a bit off. It's still on my list as the next purchase, should I buy another. Thanks!

 

[Randy Anderson]

Crown makes a 3/4" one in M42, probably one of my favorite gouges (bought a backup even in case they stop making it).

Crown Hand Tools M42 Razor Edge Cryo - 3/4" Forged Spindle Gouge | Woodcraft

Buy the M42 Razor Edge Cryo - 3/4" Forged Spindle Gouge for sale online from Woodcraft. Visit us to order online or find your local Woodcraft store today!

www.woodcraft.com

It seems like all of their M42 offerings drop off after 3/4" though.

You have to go pretty far afield to find it, but you can get a Crown 1 1/4" in M2 Cyro:

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

Crown »European-style« Spindle Gouge, M2-HSS Cryogenic, Blade Width 32 mm | Standard woodturning tools | Dictum

www.dictum.com

Chris, forgot to thank you for finding this one. I almost bought it and had not found it yet on my own...might still get it. The 3/4" one looks, from the picture anyway, like what I'm looking for. I think I'll reach out to them and see if can get more info on the actual shape since it just says spindle gouge in the description.

randy

 

[Chris Hoehle]

I tried to tell you I have two and they are indeed continental gouges! 😂

I've got the Crown 1" and 1 1/4" as well, just in regular M2 because those were purchased before I did enough digging to find out you can get them in M2 Cryogenic. In the Crown line anyway, there's quite a difference between the 1" and the 1 1/4" (what they will call 24 mm and 32mm). The 24mm still has the shorter Crown spindle tool handle and the 1 1/4" is a much longer handle, quite a bit more tool for just being a 1/4" bigger.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

Chris, forgot to thank you for finding this one. I almost bought it and had not found it yet on my own...might still get it. The 3/4" one looks, from the picture anyway, like what I'm looking for. I think I'll reach out to them and see if can get more info on the actual shape since it just says spindle gouge in the description.

No problem! I can take some pics if you want, but yes, it is 100% a tang in handle continental gouge, not round bar stock.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Chris, my bad for not paying close attention. Well, based on that I'm gonna go ahead and pick up the 3/4" as well... can't have too many gouges is the motto right. Don't tell my wife.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

No problem, I totally get what you're saying about they don't always put up a good photo. It should be required / standard for gouges in general to have one photo dead on view of the end so we can see what kind of flutes we're getting. I went ahead and took some pics of the 3/4" M42 gouge (this is the one I linked earlier on Woodcraft) and I can go out to the shop a bit later and get a size comparison of the three I have if you want.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Thanks Chris, those help. The description says a 5" flute but that looks longer.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

From the top of the ferrule to the tip of the gouge, mine is 6 7/16" (& this is my unused so far backup one). So maybe their 5" is taking some off to reflect the fact that you'll get to a point that it will be unusable before it's technically totally used up? Maybe an "under-promise, over-deliver" kinda deal?

 

[Michael Brown]

It was mentioned earlier, but I would reiterate that the hannes brg is almost exactly what you are describing. V10 and already profiled like a Continental spindle gouge. I absolutely love hogging material without tearing.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

I think Chris Hoehle has identified what you are looking for, but, maybe it is worth saying that TO ME, a Continental type gouge is a shape..... though they are most commonly forged (historically), I don't see any reason at all why they couldn't be ground out of bar stock. I don't see that tang/no tang makes any difference at the business end. I only have one, a Taylor HS 54 or HS 41 (can't remember the size offhand), in M2. I don't like it much, and don't use it often, now (it was one of the first tools I bought so I USED to use it a lot because I didn't have any choice). I'm not turning bowls though, so horses for courses. Ittoally agree every tool sold should have a head-on picture of what the flute actually looks like. Drives me nuts.

 

[Gregory Hickman]

Ittoally agree every tool sold should have a head-on picture of what the flute actually looks like. Drives me nuts.

I'll agree this is a useful view.

Gregory

 

[Randy Anderson]

Adrian, your picture looks a lot like the B&W one I posted earlier and I agree, it's the shape, regardless of tang. I suspect since the style is an old one that there's a practical, use less material, reason behind them being that way and it stuck. Who knows. I know that the semi one I fashioned from my 1" tradition SRG works great for me but I don't use it for anything other than shaping large vase contours. Plenty of modern day gouges at hand for other work. I have two different ones on the way so I should be set. Thanks.