• Congratulations to Alex Bradley winner of the December 2024 Turning Challenge (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Gabriel Hoff for "Spalted Beech Round Bottom Box" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 6, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Limiting the symposium attendance

CTutor said:
out the venue precipitated your questions forget it. Simple things like taking rooms out of inventory would have helped at G/H like room 433 that lacked an airconditioner and viewed a wall should never have been offered. But that is the G/H. Nothing you could have done to improve thier management.
Click to expand...
And I thought 433 was my room from the start. That explains why it had the 'slightly used' look when I got it at 11:30pm on Wed.
The air worked ok after a while, the shower worked by Friday, and it was close to the Fire exit.
:cool2:

I was under the impression that the venue had to be booked well in advance of the symposium date. I would think that in most cases ( in an oversimplified world) oversizing the conference room space by some percentage may have an incremental cost that would not break the bank. If you think that attendence will be highter it is probably easier to rent more chairs to fill a larger room than to rebook a larger room at the last minute.
This would factor in for the rotations that will draw a big crowd in addition.

Just having a reasonable number of hotels within a block or two of the host hotel would also be a plus. It was also unfortunate that most of the resturants near the Galt were closed for lunch on Saturday.

Limiting the number of attendees would be counter productive to the mission of the AAW, more is better should be the rally cry .
My wife is attending a craft guild conference later this summer.
Their way of doing this is different than AAW, they have almost twice as many members in a similar chapter/club organization.
Their conference has a base attendance fee with the option to pay for additional classes. You can take a full day class or choose from a number of 2 hour hands on workshops. And you have to choose workshops in advance with 3 choices per rotation. Not everything costs extra, but there are fees.
Its not woodturning, but check out www.asg.org and look at the conference brochure to see what the future might look like as growth continues.

I have really enjoyed the two conferences I have attended and can't wait for Portlan and then Richmond , where my club will probably be called on ( along with others in the state) to help make it happen.

mark.
 
I'll make a couple of comments:

1. Louisville was not a fluke. It is a spike in a steadily increasing attendance for symposiums. If the AAW continues to grow we will have a larger attendance in the future. Factors leading to the large attendance were the 20th anniversary and being a day's drive for 60% of our members.

2. Our recent survey told us that having a symposium within a days drive is the biggest factor for our members. Portland is a day's drive for 13% of our members. Although flying is cheaper than driving right now. But I like to drive and bring home heavy stuff. I expect much smaller attendance in Portland. maybe 1100.

3. Kansas City, 2005, has the second largest attendance and days drive for 42% of the mebers. Richmond in 2008 is a day's drive from 53% of our members and I expect that Richmond attendance will be close to the Louisville attendance.

4. We did not exceed capacity in Louisville. except for th Banquet which we moved to the convention center. We had more rotation seating than registered attendees. This year's popular rotations had standing room only but each of the 11 symposiums I have attended have had standing room in the more popular demonstrations. Efforts were made to put the bigger draws in bigger rooms but there are too many unknowns to predict big draws in a given year.

5. I think Mr. Tutor got it right. We are looking to the smaller convention centers for future symposiums. They offer the flexibility for us to add a rotation room a bit later in the schedule.

6. The consensus seems to be that the 2006 Symposium was a big success.
We all know there were problems and things we can an will do better.

Happy Turning,
Al
 
Last edited:
Al,

I agree that the 2006 Symposium was a huge success, crowds never bothered me, food was OK, coffee was pitful but that happens, demos were great, vendors were wonderful, but the video in many rooms was pitiful. AAW board can do nothing about the coffee or long line at the front desk, but they can and should do something about the video. At least that is my point after chasing this through three different theads that say basically the same thing.

Ray
 
Ray,

We are aware that high quality video is essential. We are also aware that for some presentations the video was very poor this year. Poor video frustrates the audience and ruins the presentation for most of them.

Although each camera operator took a 1 hour class, it wasn't sufficient to mean success. The performance of the camera operators was inconsistant. Many were absoultely outstanding and a few may as well have not been in the room.
These camera operators are AAW member volunteers. They each were to have attended a 1 hour training session. Unfortunately it only takes a few bad ones to taint the the whole sympsium. When the video is superb, few people notice, it is what we expect.

Having done a few demonstrations I know the importance of getting good video on the key elements of a presentation. One of the best video operators I worked with was a 13 year old.

One thing we plan to explore is getting video volunteers from local schools.
The idea is to find people who can benifit from shooting a the sympsium sessions and at the same time provide the AAW a high level of perfromance.

-Al
 
Al, I attended 11 sessions, worked the video in 5. Four of them had no complaints and several comliments, one had complaints due to a bad camera. Sat through the other 6 in various locations around the room. Four of them were pretty good and were all that could be expected for non-pro volunteers, but the other two (both with Mike Mahoney) were terrible due to bad cameras. I think the equipment issue is the biggest problem, the real problem I saw anybody have from behind the camera is a lack of a monitor. That has been discussed already and I hope in the future when they set up the rooms they put the single screen on the right instead of behind the operator. Two-screen rooms weren't that big of a problem although a seperate small monitor would help drastically.

I teach a very successful video production program that I am very proud of, have great kids that work their butts of. We get hit up to volunteer for everything from football games to weddings. Anytime someone comes in and starts with "We have a great oportunity for your students" we all just cringe. We do what volunteer work we can but only if the kids can get something in return. Sometimes we will get a "donation" to the program which I put toward the cost of the annual trip to NYC I take my kids on, other times they will pay the kids cash, and sometimes they give them in-kind donations like food or something. I doubt if many would show up for a free t-shirt.

I consider myself a professional videographer, and I will volunteer to work all 11 sessions if I can afford to get to Portland next year. I bet there are several others that would do the same if you let us pick our first, second, or third choices. Put your most experienced operators in the most popular sessions instead of people that jumped the quickest when offered the "best seat in the house".

Looking back on it I would rather see AAW get some decent cameras throughout instead of paying camera oeprators. Most of the operator problems I saw were equipment issues stacked on top of volunteers that were unfamilliar with the equipment, but doing the best they could.

Still a great symposium, but always room for improvement! :cool2:
 
Last edited:
Perhaps a surprise?

You might be surprised, Jeff. There are about 1,500 members of AAW on the West Coast (CA, OR, WA, & BC.) I'd bet the PTLD Symposium will draw a bunch of Canadian turners from AB & SK as well. Then there are the adjacent States... I won't be surprised if the attendance is greater than 1,800.
 
Hi Bud,

Your numbers for the west match those in my earlier post.
I hope you are right about a 1900 turnout. but our past experience doesn't suggest that.

Using a 700 mile radius to define a day's drive
Portland is a day's drive for 13% of our members. ( this is right at 1500-1600)

Kansas City, 2005, a days drive for 42% of the members
Louisville was a day's drive for 60% of our members.
if all the folks within 700 miles of louiville showed up that would be over 7,000.

If half the California members showed up at Pasadena or half the FLorida members showed up at Orlando, those symposiums would have been much larger than attendance of 823, 895 respectively.

I will be surprised if Portland draws 1100.

Hope your guess is better than mine.
Al
 
Thank you, Al

Hi Al,

As another transplanted Maryland woodturner I would like to let you know that I appreciate the hard work of you and Sherry, and the other teams on the Board. As you rightly predicted, I did not make it to every planned demo because of the trade show and Instant Gallery. I found it strange that the Instant Gallery was not accessible at times that made sense to me to have it open. Why should one have to choose between the IG and a demo and why not let folks take pictures when it is not jammed packed?

I suspect that many assume that as attendance increases linearly, so do the problems. As you may now suspect, the problems increase as the square of the numbers or worse yet, exponentially. I think you have correctly identified the best indicator with which to predict attendance, the number of members within a day's drive or 700 miles. Using that as a predictor, what would attendance at Richmond have been if the Symposia had been held there instead? I have no idea how many Symposia I will attend in the future, but I will do everything within my power to NOT register in the Symposia hotel at the same time registration opens for attendance ever again. I don't think the Galt House has figured out yet what hit them.

Hopefully at future banquets and auctions the podium will be on the long side of the room in the middle instead of at the distant end, the sound will be adequate, those who announce the auction items will remove the mashed potatoes from their mouths before speaking, and the donor of an auction item has their name visible while the item is being auctioned. I'll bet we would have raised another five or six thousand if bidders had been better informed about who had made the items. Possibly the clarity of a female voice would have helped. These are all fixable problems and I know that there is a will to fix them.

Thanks again,
 
Last edited:
Keep it up

Jeff,
It's all your fault! This web site has improved dramatically in the last couple of years and I think that is a big contributor. The internet keeps us all engaged in the organization. You want to meet the people you get to know here. Part of my reason for attending was meeting you and others from this community. Keep it up man!
 
Thanks Jim. Hey - we could cut attendance down by removing a bunch of webpages and posting information real late. Or I could replace this forum software with real slowwwwww software. That would do it!

The new online software is progressing. We'll announce the real changes within the next month. I'm helping prep the stuff that goes in the Fall Journal that is part of the rollout.
 
Yes, set a limit

I firmly believe a limit should be set at all symposiums ensuring that those who do go have a reasonable chance of getting a seat and seeing the demonstrations. I have only been to one symposium (FLA) because of two reasons, 1) I have heard repeatedly that the AAW symposiums are too big and the rooms get too crowded. 2) travel and room expenses.

I lucked out in going to Florida as I believe it was one of the smaller ones - probably because few people want to be in Florida in summer, myself included, but my cousin was dying and I wanted to see her. I thought the symposium worked out quite well, whatever the number was. I had a seat in every demo I wanted to see and I was impressed at the banquet how flawlessly everyone was served in a timely manner. If I am going to fork out a lot of cash to go to an event, especially traveling across country, I want to be able to sit down and enjoy it. I think everyone who attends deserves the same, even if it means some people will not be able to go that year.

If the events get too big, I think it would be good to have 2 events a year in different parts of the country - yes a lot of headache for those who plan it, but with the organization growing every day, I think it will have to come to that so more people have an opportunity to come to an AAW symposium.
 
How about better dates?

I've never been to an AAW symposium and probably never will go - even though next year's is close by in Richmond. I've repeatedly complained about the date selection, but no one really listens. Late spring, summer and early fall are our selling season and my wife and I vend at about twenty art, craft, music and wine festivals during that time. Many state symposiums are in late fall or winter, but AAW insists on scheduling right in the middle of when we sell, so being crowded doesn't matter to me.
 
Caroline,

The Portland facility is larger than Louisville and we'll have more demonstrations in bigger rooms. I hope you will be able to attend.

At present there is no plan to limit the attendance of the AAW annual symposium. It is my hope that we would never have to turn away an AAW member, however this is an issue we may have to re visit down the road.

There are dozens of regional and mini symposiums around the country.
Many of these limit registration due to facility sizes.
They offer a small scale version of the AAW. Most have 4-6 featured turners and another 4-6 local turners. They have trade shows with from 1 to a dozen vendors. I really enjoy these smaller symposiums.

But it is hard to beat the BIG SHOW! This year there will be 50 (9 featured) demonstrators, 40 vendors, 14 simultaneous demonstrations, 4 turning exhibitions, youth training, the worlds largest exhibition of wood turning, and much much more. Many find the instant gallery worth the price of admission.

If you want smaller and more intimate the Provo, SWAT, and the Arizona Desert Roundup. are three regional/mini symposiums that come to mind in the Southwest.

Happy Turning,
Al
 
waltben said:
I've never been to an AAW symposium and probably never will go - even though next year's is close by in Richmond. I've repeatedly complained about the date selection, but no one really listens. Late spring, summer and early fall are our selling season and my wife and I vend at about twenty art, craft, music and wine festivals during that time. Many state symposiums are in late fall or winter, but AAW insists on scheduling right in the middle of when we sell, so being crowded doesn't matter to me.
Click to expand...

Walt
I can understand your point and I suspect you know why the AAW symposium is when it is. The same reason all your shows are during the same season. It's when the most people are available to go out and do things.
If the AAW was a professional turning group, the convention would be back in the off season. Of course, if it were, the membership would be much smaller, since most of us (including me) would not qualify.

I may not know much about turning, or turning conventions/symposiums, but I do know a few things about conventions/meetings/shows/etc. I am the merchant coordinator for a thing here this summer. I have 45 merchants right now. We expect 1500 people staying on site and 10,000 (if the weather is OK) people to pass through. We did a thing last January, and had 700 people and 5 merchants. Season does matter.

TTFN
Ralph
 
n7bsn said:
Walt
I can understand your point and I suspect you know why the AAW symposium is when it is. The same reason all your shows are during the same season. It's when the most people are available to go out and do things.
If the AAW was a professional turning group, the convention would be back in the off season. Of course, if it were, the membership would be much smaller, since most of us (including me) would not qualify.

I may not know much about turning, or turning conventions/symposiums, but I do know a few things about conventions/meetings/shows/etc. I am the merchant coordinator for a thing here this summer. I have 45 merchants right now. We expect 1500 people staying on site and 10,000 (if the weather is OK) people to pass through. We did a thing last January, and had 700 people and 5 merchants. Season does matter.
Click to expand...
I don't think you quite understand. A good example is Totally Turning in Albany, NY, each October. They use only part of the huge Empire State Plaza Convention Center that could hold something like AAW's show and have had record turnouts for many consecutive years.

Whatever you did last January wasn't typical for events we've seen - the yearly American Craft Council's show each February in Baltimore wouldn't happen if that were the case. Weather (as in snow or severe rain) is the only thing we've seen keep people away - UNLESS you're doing something like trying to sell beach umbrellas in the Puget Sound area.
 
All I have to add is that, where attendance to anything I wish to attend is strictly limited, my chances of attending are slim to none. My life is somewhat chaotic and I'm lucky to be able to make any reservation further than ten days out. It's OK with me if you want to limit attendance for these symposiums. I just wouldn't be able to enjoy them if reservations were filled within ten days of the event by those who made reservations in advance of that time.
With respect to limited attendance for demonstrations, today's technical equipment (streaming video, etc.) should enable any modern organization to host large numbers of guests for demonstrations. In case you haven't seen it, Microsoft and other groups fill auditoriums with many hundreds of people and they all see the AV program offering demonstrations of technical processes.
 
Last edited:
limit

if the symposium was limited, it would have to be at certain level of persons that the facility can not handle, the 1st what ever # to register would be in

the vendor area would be open all

just my 2 cents 😀
 
The geographical change of the Symposium location is in itself a limiting factor. Not all members have the time or resources to travel coast to coast, which is the justification and the purpose of moving the location in the first place. To be fair, if you join an organization and your dues are partially used to support a symposium, how could you tell a fellow member he cannot attend. Might just as well make membership by invitation only. All that aside, the "Big Show" is as much a family style reunion of friends as well as an informational exchange. I have only attended two national symposiums and enjoyed them both, crowds and all.
 
Limiting Symposium Attendance

After all the complaints about the Louisville Galt goofs, some of which were very legitimate, many sounded like noobies on their first trip out of town, and a lot were caused by the hotel staff. And still people are expecting to be treated like royalty in an entirely different situation. I think people need to realize that each Symposium is a learning experience for the members who are doing the planning. Perhaps there should be an increase in attendance fees to cover the cost of engaging a professional planning group to make sure nothing ever goes wrong! 😛
As a fully engaged member of the retired group living on a meager fixed income, I will probably never get to attend a national meet but I wish the best to all attendees and I hope noone ever gets turned away. That's the spirit of all the woodturners I have met!
 
Hey everyone!

I would hate to see attendance to this limited, both for selfish reasons and for the benefit of all our members. (With my work schedule I either have to plan wayyyyyyyyyy in advance, or at the last minute) The attendance from last year was not a "big" gathering of people by any means when it comes to conventions and should be well within the realm of both doable and enjoyable....hopefully for both us attendees and the folks working hard putting this together.

If we all focus on meeting old and new friends, learn everything we can out of the sessions, and joyfully impoverish ourselves at the vendor booths (and volunteer for the symposium if possible) we should all have a pretty good experience by the time it is over. And then we can let AAW know what seemed to work and what didn't and offer suggestions. By next years symposium they should be able to make it just a little better for everyone who wants to attend.

I am often accused of being a bit of a Winnie The Pooh by the way. But when you think of it, a demo has to be pretty badly handled for us to walk away with nothing gained from it. A lecture has to be pretty badly presented for us not to learn something. As our local club has grown, it can be difficult to see demonstrations being done at a meeting, But the verbal part of the demo tells alot, and there is always time for questions and quick follow ups after a demo so I can get the essentials by the time I go home. By the time our 3 days is over we will all probably have gotten alot out of it, problems not withstanding. And if we meet new friends and catch up with old ones along the way it is bound to make for a pretty decent weekend.

I will be coming out from Hawaii and appreciate that this is open to all. And I am really looking forward to meeting all the folks I have been "foruming" with for the last year, and a bunch of new folks as well! See you there! Aloha!

Dave
 
I've been a member of AAW relatively few years, but I still think the reason L'ville had such a record attendance was due to location. L'ville is a days drive to a huge portion of America's population. The problems AAW had (and having too many people is a problem most groups would love to have) were due to so many people seeing it was only a few hours drive, the weather's good, so why not? If the attendance in Portland is as good then I think AAW really needs to look at symposium attendance policies. My prediction is that attendance will be down, not due to lack of desire or lack of offerings by AAW but just by location.

Personally I won't be there because I am paying for a wedding in September and can't afford it, but I will be in Richmond. If it was in L'ville again I would probably be there again. I think attendance in Richmond will rival L'vile just due to location. See ya in 2008!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top