"Legacy tools" ??

[Odie]

Kelly,
Woodturning vocabulary is not well defined. However most turners describe and name gouge profiles by their shape not the process of how they were ground.

If some one grinds your grind with a woulverine would you call that a side grind?

When turners read " traditional grind" most will picture a straight across grind like the one shown in the American woodturner, October 2011 article on gouges byJoe Larese which is widely circulated and shows the straight across grind as traditional. Leo called his grind a "modified" traditional which is common terminology for a short wing and a tool that is not ground straight across Or close to straight across.

OK, I get what you're saying, Al........Just be sure to keep in mind that not everyone holds the same definitions as you do.

ko

 

[hockenbery]

OK, I get what you're saying, Al........Just be sure to keep in mind that not everyone holds the same definitions as you do.

ko

Kelly,
We need to use a common language to communicate effectively.

My woodturning vocabulary comes from the hundreds of turners I come in contact with every year and reading the AAW publications. It continues to evolve as I learn the common usage by other turners.

Hopefully @Bill Boehme will write the Woodturner's dictionary.

 

[Odie]

That would be nice, Al.......but, having all turners conform to what you consider to be the proper definition.....is like herding cats!😀

Just keep in mind that when I mention "traditional" grind, I'm speaking of a gouge rotating on it's longitudinal axis while it's being ground, and that a number of possible grinds could be the result. This is exactly as the term "side ground" gouge applies, as a number of possible grinds could be the result of that generalized descriptive term, as well....!

.....one of the cats! 🙂

 

[Mike Johnson]

Kelly,
We need to use a common language to communicate effectively.

My woodturning vocabulary comes from the hundreds of turners I come in contact with every year and reading the AAW publications. It continues to evolve as I learn the common usage by other turners.

Hopefully @Bill Boehme will write the Woodturner's dictionary.

Woodturning vocabulary can have variations from state to state, region to region, and country to country.
Many tradesman/craftsman were taught by others in their area of the country they grew up in.
Over the years I have traveled the country to commission equipment and talking with the different trades
in the construction industry you will find they use different terms (slang) for materials, tools and methods.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hiya Leo........I think you and I may have discovered the versatility of the exact same type of traditional grind shape.....! 😀 The only difference I can see is yours has a little more rounded nose, while mine has a little more pointy nose shape. It would be easy to grind either of our shapes by spending more, or less time on the nose area while grinding.
This is my version of the same basic grind:
View attachment 21417
It looks like both yours and mine have somewhat of swept back wings that are about 2/3 the length of many of the more common side-ground gouges. Personally, I think it's easier to manipulate under a wide variety of circumstances than the latter, but I guess that can boil down to a matter of opinion. The traditional grind gouge, IMHO, certainly is a simpler configuration to re-grind, and get back to your work quicker........😵
ko

OD your grind does look similar, mine is a bit more rounded, I like it that way, so that I can continue cutting going from the bowls side to the bottom by using that rounded side area, it is certainly a bit tricky to do, but like everything practice makes perfect or such something 😵

OD the traditional grind as was originally on the bowl gouge from the maker had a good chance of the corners to grab or catch, to remove that chance I ground that corner away, modifying it as I got along, though in my eyes it is still the traditional grind as it is ground similar to the SRG, just swinging it over some to remove that top corner, but just on the flat toolrest of my grinder.

The Irish grind is ground different as was indicated in the first write-up, and from that initial grind it is now used in a much longer ground bevel that is hard to do by hand, and so for that the wolverine jig is the common called way of doing that grind, not the way I grind my gouge.

The real difference is in the nose of the traditional grind verses the Irish grind, as sown here with another one of my gouges and an Irish grind with a long wing.


Anyway I’m from the school that says if it works, it is good, now if we could only to get governments to leave things...............

 

[hockenbery]

Woodturning vocabulary can have variations from state to state, region to region, and country to country.
Many tradesman/craftsman were taught by others in their area of the country they grew up in.
Over the years I have traveled the country to commission equipment and talking with the different trades
in the construction industry you will find they use different terms (slang) for materials, tools and methods.

Woodturning as a hobby and art form is not that old. The AAW symposium, regional symposiums, and the American Woodturner tend to provide the interaction to develop a common vocabulary.

I see the different local names a lot more for wood than I do for tools. I also see techniques and style adopted locally From the influence of a specific turner.

Most of our tools have an English heritage and follow names used by English manufacturers. The names used by craft Supplies and Packard are the same ones used by just about everyone in the US and Canada.
Skew, parting tool, Bowl gouge, spindle gouge, detail gouge all follow the English pretty much. Spindle roughing Gouge(SRG) has become almost standard through work by Angelo Iafrate.

Gouge Sizing strays from the English standard fairly often. the English size a gouge 1/8" less than the Bar diameter and some manufacturers size them at the bar diameter.

The side ground gouge has many names and many variations such as: O'Neil grind, Irish grind, side grind, winged, finger nail, Ellsworth grind, glazer grind, Jordan grind, Stirt grind, 40/40, etc.... some generic some specific.
Traditional grind is often called the English grind.
We still could use a written reference....

 

[Bill Boehme]

....is like herding cats!😀

Hey, I resemble that. 😀 You cats of different stripes may compel me to write my unabridged compendium of woodturning parlance ... one of these years.🙄

In the meanwhile, what are we really discussing anyway ... words or substance? The "how" a gouge is ground sounds to me like the path taken to achieve a final result. And, I believe that the "shape" would be the final result. Someone once once said that results are what matters. If I'm eating my beans out of a wooden bowl, my main interest is how the beans taste. While I might like the bowl, as a beans-served-in-wooden-bowl connoisseur, the tools the maker used don't even show up on my radar. There's more than one way to skin a ..... uh .... never mind. 😱

 

[Tom Gall]

Hiya Leo........I think you and I may have discovered the versatility of the exact same type of traditional grind shape.....! 😀 The only difference I can see is yours has a little more rounded nose, while mine has a little more pointy nose shape. It would be easy to grind either of our shapes by spending more, or less time on the nose area while grinding.

A little hard to tell from the pictures, but Leo's gouge looks to have a more "U" shaped flute, whereas, your's looks to be more parabolic or maybe a "V" shaped flute. This would result in a more pointy nose shape.