Keyless drill chuck for removable handle?

[Ted Judd]

I have been woodturing with home made carbide cutters (even have youtube videos on their making) and decided I would like to get some 'traditional' woodturing tools. With that in mind I bought my first bowl gouge, a handless Lyle Jamison made by Thompson tools. I would like to mount in a removable wood handle.

I don't want to have to deal with hex key screws that I will likely loose. I know Robust sells a collet set which would do the job, however they are way higher than my budget. In looking at them I started thinking (yup, you probably can smell the neurons burning). Why wouldn't a keyless drill chuck work?

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Al Chavez]

I am having the same thoughts.
I just watched this video and bought a cheap keyless drill chuck (probably too cheap) from Amazon. I want to make some lathe tools from old screwdrivers.

The timing is strange on your post for me because I just did this five minutes ago.
Update us with your results.
Al

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Check out Jimmy Clewes. He makes a quick release that you can add to your own wooden handle. You can see him using them in his videos. They look like they work very well.

 

[Chris Lawrence]

If your not concerned about extending the shaft into the handle what about something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Yakamoz-Exte...=1/2+inch+collet+chuck&qid=1622412709&sr=8-13

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Two problems I see: first you would be limited in tool diameter, second and more limiting, would be the inability to vary the length of the amount of tool exposed/ vs the amount of tool shank in the handle.

I have the Robust holders, Trent Bosch holders, and others. Yes, the Robust are quick, but the others all use the allen-screws and it's not that cumbersome.

 

[hockenbery]

You might consider a dedicated handle
i have 2 of the Jamieson gouges pus a 1/2 dozen more 1/2” gouges by other manufacturers. each has its own handle.
so convenient to pick up a tool and use it.

to reuse a handle I just knock it off the used up tool then seat the new tool.

i usually don’t glue the handles on unless a tool gets loose then a few drops of thick CA
two Jamieson gouges wth sapele handles. Sapele is free cut offs one of our club members brings to meetings

 

[Ric Williams]

I tried several approaches to removable DIY handles, including that type of collet chuck and found that besides being really heavy, they're designed to be used with a spanner type wrench, so you'd be back to needing a tool. I couldn't get it tight enough by hand. One thing I didn't realize is that the Robust design actually uses the ER collet reversed from how they're used in machining. I assume they did that to take advantage of the gentler taper so that it'd be easier to get them tight enough by hand. They work great if you have normal grip strength, but I've lost enough grip strength from age and arthritis to make it a problem to get them tight enough to prevent loosening and/or rotation of the tool. But that's because I'm defective, not the handle.

The setup that works the best for me (so far) is using the Hosaluk steel fittings, but I remove the dual set screws and use a single 3 sided knob on a threaded brass stud. I like to use brass tipped fasteners so that the shafts of the tools don't get chewed up. So far I haven't had any problems with rotation or loosening. I'll take some pics and add them to this post later.

 

[JeffSmith]

I use the Hoseluk adapters, too. Find them a good solution and easy to integrate into a handle. Hadn't thought of replacing the grub screws with a knob - sounds like the quick-change knobs D-Way sells - I've been using hose for years...

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have about every iteration of handles available. My main requirement is that the tool comes out of the handle for sharpening. No matter what type (adapters, collets or screws) my favorite are the original Thompson foam covered handle with the round nose with 2 grub screws. A collet handle may take 2 seconds to remove the tool where the 2 grub screws may take 5 or 6 seconds, that's really not enough time for me to worry about.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I don't think that a drill chuck will do a satisfactory job. I am just thinking out loud here. Chucks are designed to grasp and spin a bit, but are not intended for much lateral loading. The cavity for the bit's shank is rather shallow for our needs so it won't hold much of the tool shaft, and as the bit diameter increases the cavity becomes shallower. In fact, to accommodate a 1/2" or 5/8" shaft I think you'd need a really big (and heavy) chuck. (Think full size drill press).

The D-Way knob or Ric's homemade solution might be effective at a good price.

Among the collet solutions I wanted to point out that Hannes Tools sells a wrench tightened collet along with a bench mounted wrench that's always at hand. No idea if this may be cheaper than other collet systems. Maybe an advantage for someone with upper extremity weakness?

 

[Chris Lawrence]

I have about every iteration of handles available. My main requirement is that the tool comes out of the handle for sharpening. No matter what type (adapters, collets or screws) my favorite are the original Thompson foam covered handle with the round nose with 2 grub screws. A collet handle may take 2 seconds to remove the tool where the 2 grub screws may take 5 or 6 seconds, that's really not enough time for me to worry about.

I am the same way. I make my adapters out of 1 inch aluminum rod on my wood lathe. The op was concerned about loosing wrenches or keys i find a small rare earth magnet stuck to my headstock does a great job holing allen keys in place.

 

[robo hippy]

I have a couple of the D Way handles with the twist knob. It does come loose with heavy use, and I have learned to keep a hand on it. It has never fallen out, but I can feel it rattle. Never liked having to hunt for the allen wrench, even if I have a million of them from each new tool I buy...

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

You might consider a dedicated handle

so convenient to pick up a tool and use it.

I feel the same as Al on this one.

Convenience is the name of the game in woodturning, and tools with multiple applications seem like a good idea on the surface.......until actual application. Then, they become an inconvenience. I am a firm believer in having every lathe tool with it's own dedicated handle......for that very reason.

Note: I have a keyless chuck mounted on a short handle, used for depth hole on bowl interiors. It's quite heavy, and seems like that could be a disadvantage, when negotiating super-fine cuts. I've never used one for holding a gouge, though......so, I'm speculating here. It also seems like a keyless chuck has a singular application when holding only gouges with round shanks. For anything else, it wouldn't work......

-----odie-----

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Ironically, I have been preparing for a club demo on the ultimate woodturning handle that can accommodate most woodturning tools. I have not completed all my notes, photos, and videos yet, but here are my thoughts, which have already may have been mentioned in the posts above.

My handle criteria:
1. Turning tool and handle must be able to separate for sharpening and storage.
2. One handle should accommodate as many tools as possible regardless of the shape of the tool(round, square, or tanged)
3. To attach and detach the tool from the handle, no other tool should be required for this operation.
4. The handle material choice should be left up to the woodturner.
5. The handle system must be economically acceptable to make/obtain.

I concluded on a cam lock mechanism that accepted 3/4" round adaptor sleeves to fulfill all of the above characteristics. This requires an adapter sleeve for all of my tools and allowed the handle to be used with many of my 3/4" boring bar-like tools. (Dennis Stuart and Andre Martel hook). 3/4 is a very common size.

Jimmy Clewes cam lock mechanism is available up to 5/8. This may be a good place to start. I already own a 5/8 cam handle from my Exocet system. I'm not certain how well a tang like-tool like my NR scrapers would fit in a 5/8" sleeve drilled to 1/2". I do have a legacy Serious tool 3/4" cam handle that accommodates all my scrapers and roughing gouges. Both of these handles have extensions so they can be used as 16 inch or 32 inch handles.
I have previously posted pictures of these unavailable handles here:
(note post was made, before I decided not to go with ER32)

Quick release adapter

New member. I would like to construct a quick release handle to accommodate a variety of shank sizes. Sizes not shapes. Removing the gouge from the handle seems like a better way to sharpen the tool than with the handle still attached.I was thinking of using an ER32 collet system since they...

www.aawforum.org

Unfortunately, other than the Batty Taper-Lock Handle system, I don't know of any available Cam handles to recommend other than Jimmy's.


Owning these CAM handles gave me the opportunity to study how the mechanism works and how to fabricate them with tools typically found in our woodturning shop.

Those that feel motivated, read on:
I was missing a shorter CAM handle for spindle turning so I started making small 12" handles prototyping the mechanism. The first one I made out of 1" ID PVC and 1" OD Maple Dowels. You need to drill a 3/4" hole in a 1" dowel slightly offset to the center of the dowel. I don't own a 4 chuck with independent jaws but managed by shimming two adjacent jaws to pull it enough off-center on my Stronghold self-centering chuck. The offset drilled dowel which was about 4" long was crosscut to two pieces of 3" and 1". From a 12" long 1" PVC a 2" piece was cut to house the 1" piece of dowel. The 3" dowel was epoxyed and inserted into the 10" PVC piece with 1" of the dowel protruding. The 2" long PVC is now inserted into the 10 Inch PVC on the 1" dowel protruding. The 2" PVC dowel with the 3/4" hole when rotated on the 10" PVC protruding dowel will align up to its 3/4 hole only a few degrees of a 360-degree rotation. You find the perfect alignment by placing a 3/4 sleeve with a tool in it rotating the 2" PVC until the sleeve falls into the main handle. At which point by turning the handle the tool will be locked into the handle.
After a few months of use, the dowel made of a soft maple didn't hold up well either did the epoxy. So I remade it out of PVC and 1 Inch aluminum dowl securing it with setscrews instead of epoxy. Works great. Ultimately, I then made one replacing the PVC with Aluminum Tube.
This model is even better! The big selling point is the all-aluminum cam handle cost about $15 to make.
For the Club, I am making one out of oak dowel which I will custom turn to the exact inner diameter of the PVC that I am using. I find they vary by a few thousandths. The dowel must be snug but must be capable of rotation.
A little note about sleeves, I am grandfathered into the .75 sleeves. I use soft steel rounds. which are actually .7499 and will fit in a 3/4 drilled hole. It would be easier to start out using all-aluminum sleeves but they run slightly larger than .75. For aluminum sleeves, drill a 49/64 hole instead of 3/4.

Custom built CAM handles on the right hand side of photo.

Photo illustrates the offset drilled dowel. (about 1/32" from center)


The original maple and pvc handle.

 

[Dave Hulett]

I have two of the Clews cam-lock, (one 1/2" and one 5/8") and the robust chuck style. The robust works fine but is very heavy. I am very happy withthe Clews clam-locks.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

The biggest advantage of removable handles for me is the ease of sharpening without the long handle in the way.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Since I'm still have a ways to go on my sharpening skills I stick to sharpening without a handle. It was an added factor for me that I know was impacting my consistency. I've made a few fixed handles, have a couple of metal ones (One Way and DWay) with knobs I made that cover most of my tools but I'm still like many drawn to wooden handles as ideal. Can't explain, just am. I ordered one of Cindy Drozda's 1/2" collars a few days ago just to try it out. Might also try one of the Hosaluk for my 5/8 gouges. Do I need more handles? No. Just an itch to scratch once in a while to make a new handle and see how it feels.

I agree that the keyless chuck idea seems risky. They have very limited grip on the steel beyond the three jaws and are not designed for lateral force. When I'm roughing a big log with my 5/8 gouge it can encounter some serious bangs and hits. Would not trust a keyless chuck with that much abuse side to side. Maybe a small detail tool of some kind perhaps.

Chris - I actually tried one of those from Amazon. There are a few different styles for the piece that screws on. One seemed more finger/hand friendly to tighten. I could not make it work out. The tolerance on the collet hole is very very tight and not all 1/2" gouges have the same shank dia. They vary a bit. I could not get tools into the collet and found that if I could I could not get the screw on part on by hand. I sent it all back. Maybe I didn't have the right setup but per the specs it seemed the same collet that some mfg use. They make them with a hollow shank so you could insert the tool into the handle, if you could make it work.

 

[Chris Lawrence]

A little off topic but here is the last set of inserts i made for new gouges. I make handles for all my tools but like to remove for sharpening. I bought the aluminum rod off ebay for about the cost of one commercial insert and can probably make 10 or so inserts from it. I turned them on my wood lathe with regular high speed steel gouges and scrapers. They take about 1/2 hour to make.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

A little off topic but here is the last set of inserts i made for new gouges. I make handles for all my tools but like to remove for sharpening. I bought the aluminum rod off ebay for about the cost of one commercial insert and can probably make 10 or so inserts from it. I turned them on my wood lathe with regular high speed steel gouges and scrapers. They take about 1/2 hour to make.View attachment 38963

Good idea, what size aluminum stock do you start with?

 

[Doug Freeman]

I use Cindy Drozda’s AL inserts, same as Hosaluk which are steel. The set screws aren’t removed, only loosened, to get the tool out, so you wouldn’t loose them. As for loosing the hex key, mine is stuck to a magnet stuck to the grinder. Haven’t lost it yet after 3 years or so. If I do I’ll tie the next one on with string or chain. I looked at all the other inserts and found them too expensive. I prefer making my own wood handles vs metal tube types. I only use them for bowl gouges, for tool removal for sharpening. The other tools are easy enough to sharpen with the handle attached.

 

[Chris Lawrence]

Good idea, what size aluminum stock do you start with?

I used 3/4 inch for them the bowl gouge was a 1/2 inch Thompson. I would have been better off with 1 inch for that one. You want to make sure you get an alloy that says it's machinable I can't remember what number alloy I bought last. Aluminum also works great for making mandrels if your going to reuse often.

 

[John Torchick]

Ken, you know that 14" of log will ultimately produce an 11-12" finished bowl, right?

I have a couple of the D Way handles with the twist knob. It does come loose with heavy use, and I have learned to keep a hand on it. It has never fallen out, but I can feel it rattle. Never liked having to hunt for the allen wrench, even if I have a million of them from each new tool I buy...

robo hippy

robo, wrap a rare earth magnet with masking tape on the wrench. I have several pencils on machines around the shop.

 

[Robert Grinstead]

I saw one made by Gerald Jensen a member of worldwidewoodturners.org (free org)
Posted on their webpage are instructions on how to make them..
"You can use ordinary brass plumbing fittings to make your own collets for tool handles. The advantage of using this type of collet is that there are no set screws to damage the shanks on your tool shafts. I use these with Thompson Lathe Tools … unhandled tools from other toolmakers should work. I found the parts needed in the plumbing department at Fleet Farm. Menards has similar fittings, but theirs are 'lead free' and have a different sleeve ... I couldn't make them work. (For 5/8" tool shaft) 5/8" Compression x 1/2" FIP adapter Pipe nipple: 1/2" x 1-1/2".

 

[GRJensen]

I saw one made by Gerald Jensen a member of worldwidewoodturners.org (free org)
Posted on their webpage are instructions on how to make them..
"You can use ordinary brass plumbing fittings to make your own collets for tool handles. The advantage of using this type of collet is that there are no set screws to damage the shanks on your tool shafts. I use these with Thompson Lathe Tools … unhandled tools from other toolmakers should work. I found the parts needed in the plumbing department at Fleet Farm. Menards has similar fittings, but theirs are 'lead free' and have a different sleeve ... I couldn't make them work. (For 5/8" tool shaft) 5/8" Compression x 1/2" FIP adapter Pipe nipple: 1/2" x 1-1/2".

They do require use of a wrench ... the instructions referenced cover collets for 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8" tools.

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, while doing some good creative procrastination yesterday, I thought, how about those quick change collet/chucks that are on the newer screw guns???? You know, the screw bits have a half round groove in the end of them, you push it into the chuck to seat it, and to remove it, you pull the collar down and the bit pulls out..... The gouge makers would have to tool in a groove on all their round shaft tools....

robo hippy

 

[Brian Gustin]

Yeah those quick connect chucks are pretty much the same as Air Tool fitting chucks - quick disconnects using small ball bearings I wonder if one could not just adapt an air tool fitting to a handle.. ? Perhaps get one of those larger (1/2 inch or 3/4 inch) ones? Or, hydraulic hose quick disconnects.. Now that you mention it, I think I may just try and experiment a little myself with some (I have tons of old air hose fittings in the shop laying around that were replaced due to leakage)

 

[Tom Gall]

Hmm, while doing some good creative procrastination yesterday, I thought, how about those quick change collet/chucks that are on the newer screw guns???? You know, the screw bits have a half round groove in the end of them, you push it into the chuck to seat it, and to remove it, you pull the collar down and the bit pulls out..... The gouge makers would have to tool in a groove on all their round shaft tools....

robo hippy

Those usually have hex shanks (at least all that I have). Round shank tools can twist while cutting possibly causing a major catch - same with all pneumatic fittings. Probably too much play as well...and you can't adjust the amount of tool protrusion from the handle. Just my 2¢.

 

[robo hippy]

Didn't think of that Tom. Of course the coupler on the inside would have to have a hex receiver in it so the bit doesn't twist. Maybe some one can figure out a way around it. Shouldn't be too difficult... Now, I am wondering of gouge blanks start out as round bar stock... Probably rather than milling square stock.... Hmmm........

robo hippy