Is this variable speed motor 220 or 110v ?

[odie]

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=186-0105

Just wondering. I wonder if it will just bolt up to my Woodfast?

If anyone knows about this motor and controller, let me know if it's any good, and/or how you like it.

We have several variable speed motors where I work. They interfere with AM radio reception there.....do these motors/controllers do that too?

thanx

....otis of cologne

 

[john lucas]

That motor will work fine on your woodfast. That's what I learned to turn green wood on. You lose power at the slower speeds because it's DC. It won't mess up your radio like the variable frequency drives do. They do have lots of torque at the low speeds however.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Voltage absent on the web site. Hard-copy catalog says 186-0105 is 110v. Ditto 186-1105 (1/2 HP); 186-1120 (1 1/2 HP) is 220v. All DC.

Joe

 

[MichaelMouse]

We have several variable speed motors where I work. They interfere with AM radio reception there.....do these motors/controllers do that too?

If it's got brushes, the motor will, even if the controller is clean. Sparks on the commutator.

Brushless will have a controller similar, IIRC, to a 3-phase variable, the commutation being handled by the controller rather than mechanically. Of course, it will behave as its AC brothers do.

I never varied speed much even when I had the infinitely variable capability, so I have to say it's a lot of money for minimum benefit.

 

[odie]

Voltage absent on the web site. Hard-copy catalog says 186-0105 is 110v. Ditto 186-1105 (1/2 HP); 186-1120 (1 1/2 HP) is 220v. All DC.

Joe

Hey, thanks Joe......

I looked it up on the online catalog just after closing time at CSUSA.....tried to call, but was too late!

I hate to be such a dummy about things sometimes!.......because I have their catalog right here, and never thought to look there to find out if the 1hp motor was 110v, or not.

I'm wondering if 1hp is enough for my needs. My Woodfast lathe is 16" capacity, with a Leeson 110v, 1 1/2 hp, and I've never had any problems with lack of power.....but, I seldom have really large turning blanks. Is large and heavy turning prospects the only real justification for more power? I suppose taking really large bites with gouges might qualify. I've never had a problem with really big bites with a gouge.....will I with only a 1hp????

Then again, I haven't really convinced myself that I NEED a variable speed in the first place. I can do a belt change in less than 30 seconds, and I usually don't change speeds more than a half a dozen times for a bowl......so, I'm not so sure the convenience of turning a dial for speed changes is really worth $600, when you consider it probably won't save me more than 5 minutes per bowl!

CONVINCE ME THAT A VARIABLE SPEED IS WORTH IT. I think if I were buying a new lathe right now, I wouldn't hesitate to get the variable, but I still have my doubts if I'll bite the bullet and upgrade my Woodfast...or not. I've been changing belts on pulleys for 25+yrs now.....and if I'd not been aware of variable speeds, I probably could do it for the rest of my life, and not be unhappy with it!

Thanks for the comments.....and making me chew on the idea!

....odie

 

[odie]

I never varied speed much even when I had the infinitely variable capability, so I have to say it's a lot of money for minimum benefit.

Thanks MichaelMouse.....

I seem to flip-flop on the thought of upgrading my Woodfast to a variable speed. Sometimes I think like you do.....sometimes I think I'd like to try it out.

I am standing by, and hoping to hear from anyone who considers the variable speed a necessary component of a good turning experience.....talk to me about it.

Odie Juan.....

 

[Jake Debski]

.............................................................................I seem to flip-flop on the thought of upgrading my Woodfast to a variable speed. Sometimes I think like you do.....sometimes I think I'd like to try it out.

I am standing by, and hoping to hear from anyone who considers the variable speed a necessary component of a good turning experience.....talk to me about it.

Odie Juan.....

Odie, its like comparing an automatic transmission to stick shift. Both will get you where you are going, but one is just easier. I have the variable and doubt that I'd ever go back to the other. Dialing in the correct speed for out of balance blanks, sanding, a little more speed to try and eliminate tear out when sharpening, etc.aren't working, all much easier with the variable. If you think you may upgrade to a different lathe in the future I'd say save the cash for the upgrade and use what you have till the time is right. If the Woodfast is your last lathe then go for it(1-1/2hp though.) My 2 cents

 

[woodwish]

Odie, I would fully agree with Jake. My first lathe was not VS and I rarely changed the belt to vary the speed on any given project. My new lathe is VS with plenty of power (Jet 1642 w/2 hp VS) for my skills. I can't imagine ever having a non-VS lathe now. The idea of being able to speed up as the blank becomes more balanced, slowing down to sand, etc. just seems automatice to me now. Being able to do that with one hand while the lathe is on is wonderful, and I also love my digital speed readout.

Jake's analogy to car transmissions is pretty good. Jake's suggestion of saving the money for a new lathe is also good, unless this lathe is your last (does anybody ever buy their "last" lathe?) at least for a while. My older non-VS lathe now just holds my Beall 3-wheel buffer even though I intended to continue to use it as a lathe.

 

[waltben]

To variable or not to variable . .

I've both a Stubby (2hp, variable) and a Jet mini (next to no hp and variable). My first late was a Delta 1440 w/mechanical variable. I've demo'd on two fixed. Experiences have been that I'm changing speeds on both my lathes depending on how far out from the center of a piece I am (slower the further away, faster the closer in) since it's the speed of the wood that counts, not rpm (that everyone gets fixated on). I do this for both turning and sanding, sometimes three or even four times as I go from center to rim on 20"+ pieces. The times I've used the other kind have been irritating at best as I have to stop and change the belt or put up with less than optimal speed. I wouldn't buy a lathe without a good variable motor.

 

[Gordon Seto]

Another vote for the EVS. Just the very low min. rpm is worth upgrading. I never pay attention to what speed I am turning. I turn at the highest speed that I am comfortable or whatever the lathe is capable. With an off-balance blank, the ability to start at low speed is a blessing. I slowly crank up the speed till the lathe vibrates, then back off. After the blank gets more balanced with some wood removed, I increase the speed gradually. I don't think you can achieve that safely with step pulley.

We have seasoned turners in our Club who don't chase the latest gadgets, they make their own tools if they can. They changed their old irons to EVS and were very happy. The only regret they had was why not sooner.

The biggest draw back is cost. If upgrading to another lathe is in the near feature, then using it as-is is an option.

Once you try the EVS (I don't mean mechanical VS - Reeves Drive), there is no return.

Gordon

 

[MichaelMouse]

There's your answer, Odie. People want to get out of the studio/shop/turnery as soon as possible, so they want to turn faster. If you're someone who enjoys the time you spend turning, perhaps you might want to put your dollars elsewhere.

I can't personally move the tool so much faster along the cut as to take advantage of the increased speed without sacrificing control. Then there's the fact that bringing the wood past your edge twice as fast gives four times the energy to hurt you or the work in a catch.

I will sometimes change speeds once, though once a piece has been roughed at all, it's all 680 for me. Eighth inch ornament finials to 400mm bowls, it makes no difference.

 

[odie]

Thanks for all the replies.....

I'm still teetering on the edge of getting a VS motor. MichaelMouse, I'm sure, is right that there is very little a step pulley drive system can't do that a VS can.

I do see the advantage in selecting the right speed for an out of balance condition and then gradually increasing speed as allowable.....VS would certainly come in handy there, but it would have to be VERY out of balance to make a real difference to me. My 500lb Woodfast is bolted to the floor, and minimally out of balance pieces don't present much of a problem for me. Possibly a very large and heavy out of balance bowl blank could make a difference here.

For most bowls, the 370, 650, and 1200 rpm settings seem to work very well for everything.

I did see a John Jordan (?) video once, where he explained how the VS eliminated tool chatter with a small adjustment in speed. If I knew that was something I could depend on, I'd be pulling out my wallet and getting the VS pronto! Nobody else has confirmed this, so I'm not so sure Jordan is evaluating his conclusion correctly.....maybe, or maybe not.

At this point, the Woodfast does everything else very well for me. Sometimes I wish I could do bowls larger than 16" diameter, but bowl blanks that big seem to be rare as hen's teeth....so to upgrade to a larger capacity lathe for that reason alone seems like wasted money. (If I ever did go for a larger capacity lathe, I sure do like the new Vicmarc 24" lathes.)

This whole thing seems to boil down to the stick shift vs automatic concept. One is more convenient.....while the other will get you there just as well.

Since I'm happy with my Woodfast lathe, and don't really see a new lathe in my future....if I end up with a VS, it will most likely be added on to the Woodfast.

This whole discussion, as I see it in my mind, is primarily theoretical, with input from those with hands-on experience. There is only one way to see if I'll like a VS........get one, or forever be satisfied with the step pulleys.

Sooner or later, I'll probably just get the VS. It will either work better, or not.....but having VS won't be any less useful than the step pulleys.

Again, thanks for all the replies, gentlemen.

otis of cologne

 

[Jake Debski]

There's your answer, Odie. People want to get out of the studio/shop/turnery as soon as possible, so they want to turn faster. If you're someone who enjoys the time you spend turning, perhaps you might want to put your dollars elsewhere.

Sorry MM, its not wanting to get out of the shop in a hurry as much as it is wanting to get as much out of the shop in the time at hand.

 

[Paul Engle]

If your Lesson is dc , you can get a controller for it for 200$. i have a 3/4 hp dc/ with controller ( 146$ for the controller ) and as soon as you slow it down the torque goes away. 1 1/2 hp would be the min for larger stuff ( over 12 in dia) but there are severial companies that make controllers for dc mtrs. Texas controllers makes em custom fit for your motor. Try these guys : I have no financial intrest in them or their products.

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/DC+Drives/?ppc=google

 

[odie]

If your Lesson is dc , you can get a controller for it for 200$. i have a 3/4 hp dc/ with controller ( 146$ for the controller ) and as soon as you slow it down the torque goes away. 1 1/2 hp would be the min for larger stuff ( over 12 in dia) but there are severial companies that make controllers for dc mtrs. Texas controllers makes em custom fit for your motor. Try these guys : I have no financial intrest in them or their products.

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/DC+Drives/?ppc=google

chips29....

Well now, if that were the case, It would certainly be convienient for me. I went out to the shop and inspected the plate on the motor. I found nothing I could identify it as being DC.

How can I tell?

....odie

 

[Bill Boehme]

...... I'm wondering if 1hp is enough for my needs. My Woodfast lathe is 16" capacity, with a Leeson 110v, 1 1/2 hp, and I've never had any problems with lack of power.....but, I seldom have really large turning blanks. Is large and heavy turning prospects the only real justification for more power? I suppose taking really large bites with gouges might qualify. I've never had a problem with really big bites with a gouge.....will I with only a 1hp????

I'm not trying to discourage you, but the design task of converting your lathe over to a variable speed drive is not trivial. Many woodturners manage to do it without doing any analysis, but probably at the cost of sub-optimal performance that they never knew that they settled for.

I presume that your Woodfast lathe has a step-cone pulley arrangement with at least four speeds. Your current pulley drive arrangement has a very strong advantage over all of the electronic variable speed drive mechanizations and it is the reason that almost all of the commercially available lathes with variable speed still must resort to two or more pulley drive ratios to maintain adequate drive power over the full speed range.

On your current set-up, the available power at the spindle is always 1.5 HP (minus some loss in the drive train). Even better is the fact that available spindle torque is equal to motor torque times spindle pulley diameter divided by motor qulley diameter. The result is that at the slowest spindle speed, available torque at the spindle will be very high.

Optimally, when you convert your lathe over to electronic variable speed drive, it requires that you calculate new pulley requirements based on factors such as drive train and load moment of inertia (for speed stability under load), motor operating speed range (for maximum efficiency), speed range of the lathe spindle (approximately 200 RPM to 2500 RPM), spindle power, and spindle torque.

In addition to using two or three pulley speed ranges, electronic speed drive systems generally must resort to increased motor size in order to provide the same drive performance as the fixed-speed motor and pulley drive system. In other words, getting a 1 HP motor for your lathe will put you at a big performance disadvantage from the get-go. Even a 1.5 HP motor will mean that some parts of the overall performance envelope will not quite be up to what you currently have.

If I were you, I would very strongly consider 2 HP as the minimum upgrade. That should enable you to maintain the same performance envelope and also give you the capability of much lower speed than what you currently have (to me, that is the main advantage) along with the capability of a higher top end speed (of debatable value).

Then again, I haven't really convinced myself that I NEED a variable speed in the first place. I can do a belt change in less than 30 seconds, and I usually don't change speeds more than a half a dozen times for a bowl......so, I'm not so sure the convenience of turning a dial for speed changes is really worth $600, when you consider it probably won't save me more than 5 minutes per bowl!

OK, you'll have to convince yourself, but I can't say that anyone actually NEEDS variable speed (most of us want it). WHAT?? Six hundred dollars! Boy, are they proud of it or what? I have been getting used Baldor industrial three-phase inverter drive motors and controllers from the industrial area of ebay for a fraction of that and these are motors and controllers that sold for around $2K apiece when new. I would say that you could find a better deal than the $600 one mentioned, especially considering that DC controllers are cheap and DC motors aren't all that expensive either.

CONVINCE ME THAT A VARIABLE SPEED IS WORTH IT.

Sorry, but that is your decision.

[transfer] Monkey is on your back [/transfer]

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

I did see a John Jordan (?) video once, where he explained how the VS eliminated tool chatter with a small adjustment in speed. If I knew that was something I could depend on, I'd be pulling out my wallet and getting the VS pronto! Nobody else has confirmed this, so I'm not so sure Jordan is evaluating his conclusion correctly.....maybe, or maybe not.

In my experience that philosophy just produces a different chatter pattern. My solution is twofold. I have a steady the kids bought me, and I use it pretty much any time I'm working 1/4" and below. It dampens harmonics resulting from duller tools or presentations which cause the wood to recoil as the difference in density across the annual rings finds its rhythm. I remind myself to guide and cut, not ride the bevel over the latewood and into the early. I sometimes go back almost to a roughing mode, swinging a well anchored tool through the rough sections rather than trying to push the tool along the rest. Chatter seems to happen more often with smaller radius gouges, so just changing to a broader one will skim and trim for most applications.

Brinksmanship in roughing, where you advance to vibration then back off is why, I think, a lot of people complain about dismounts of various types. Exponential increase in energy, as I mentioned. Half goes to the piece, half to your arm!

 

[rbabbittjr]

My 20" Woodfast was purchased with a 1 1/2hp DC motor. I can hog heavy cuts, use my bowlsaver and is nearly impossible to bog down. Bottom line is it works for me.

 

[odie]

My 20" Woodfast was purchased with a 1 1/2hp DC motor. I can hog heavy cuts, use my bowlsaver and is nearly impossible to bog down. Bottom line is it works for me.

Questions 4 u rbabbittjr.......

Is your 20" Woodfast a variable speed?

220v or 110v?

On the motor plate, does it specifically say DC on it somewhere?

I agree that the 1 1/2 hp motor I have has plenty of power to do it all......but it's not a VS, is 110v, and is pulley drive.

....odie

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie,

If you are interested in additional information of variable speed drives, here are links to some previous posts of mine on the subject.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3