Inside bowl cuts

[Fadi Zeidan]

I’m getting frustrated with my inability to get consistent good finishing cuts inside of my bowls. I’ve had few great results, and some with “rings” and inconsistent results. What is your approach to inside bowl finishing cut(s)?

 

[john lucas]

I do a number of things often depending on the quality of wood and how it cuts. My normal cut is a push cut with a Thompson 1/2" V bowl gouge. The flute is somewhere around 45 degrees but I vary it slightly depending on the shape of the bowl, where I'm at, and how the wood is cutting. If my bowl is more open I use a Henry Taylor U shaped gouge with a Stewart Batty 40/40 grind except mine is 45/45 or somewhat less and do the same push cut. If I have trouble getting a clean cut sometimes I will use that 40/40 grind with the flute up and cutting with the left wing. If that doesn't do the trick or I can't use that cut I go to my Hunter Osprey or Hunter Hercules and do a push cut with that. That usually works but if it doesn't I stop the lathe and work on the bad areas with a round cabinet scraper. If all else fails I work on those bad areas with my drill and sanding discs with the lathe off. Once I get the bad areas under control I can just work through the sanding discs.
I did grind a homemade bowl gouge with a U flute and left the wings almost vertical. I do a push cut with that with the flute up. It's a really clean cut but just doesn't work for me on some of my shapes and I made it out of Carbon Steel so it doesn't hold an edge long.

 

[odie]

It's going to be a challenge to explain this in terms that are understood in depth......but, the interior of bowls, and especially bowl interiors that merge into inward slanting, or undercut rims, are, by far, the most difficult things to gain perfection. This is an acquired skill, and the only way to be successful, consistently, is by doing it over and over again.....by repetition. The word "repetition" has a two-fold meaning......in that a bowl turner must do many bowls.....and.....must learn to do light cuts through an arc repeatedly AND consistently.......not just a few times, but dozens of times with repeatable accuracy.

There are probably many gouge styles and scraper shapes that are capable of this......because they all have a cutting edge. If that cutting edge is presented well, it will cut well. If that cutting edge moves through an arc well, and with repeatable accuracy, the resulting surface will be fine tuned to the desired result.

The same rules for the outside of bowls, apply to the inside of bowls......in that the least amount of sanding is the ultimate goal. Learning to use your tool grinds and shapes is good......but, if you don't have a good handle on how to sharpen, and keep an edge sharp......good results might be possible......but, the best possible results won't.

Hind sight is the best way to have a complete understanding of these things.......and, the ONLY way to have hind sight, is to do these things repeatedly to a successful conclusion. Then, and only then, will a complete understanding be realized.

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

Consistency comes with practice. You are gettting good results when you make good cuts..
When you don’t an inconsistency lets your technique fall short of your best.

I do the inside turning much the same way I learned from Liam o’neil and David Ellsworth with one element I got from Jimmy clewes.

Shape is a big help or hindrance. For me a hemispherical bowl is easy to hollow. A bowl deeper than wide is difficult. I almost never do a bowl deeper than wide. Hollowing a green bowl is easier than truing and hollowing a dried bowl.

Preventing bumps involves making clean cuts with no tearout, avoiding bevel drag, letting the bevelmfloat over the surface.

When returning a dry bowl - it is important to take light cuts to turn the inside round. The light cuts reduce tearout.
Tearout makes a bumpy surface. The cut is a curve from rim to bottom center riding the bevel. Grinding the heel off the tool makes it work more smoothly.

Bevel drag causes vibration that can make some bumps. Shorter bevel has less drag(grind off the heel) let the bevel float over the cut surface. I finish the first inch or two below the rim with a 1/4” gouge. Short bevel,cut really cleanly. But 2” below the rim is its limit.

Comming off the bevel deep in the bowl creates a washboard surface of bumps. As you come off the bevel the gouge follows the bevel cutting deeper. The brain correct this and then the gouge cuts deeper. The result is this up and down surface. When the bevel rides continuously you don't Get the bumps.

The advanced flute up shear cut has a very short bevel contact and a light bevel pressure, and a high shear angle-all the ingredients for a smooth surface.

I feel the inside with my hand for bumps. If there is one I want to cut the bump not cut over the area following the bump. I get the bevel on the wood not cutting and move up to the bump and cut lightly through the bump.

This is how I do it. Fast forward to 17:30 for the hollowing

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZWsHB4vlM

 

[Richard Coers]

If I start getting finishing cut problems, I remind myself of two things; relax my grip and take lighter cuts. Works every time. Nearly all woodturners grip the tools to hard and it makes tool control much more difficult! You can induce many problems with too hard of grip, including washboard cuts.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, a play date would be the easiest way to help solve the problem. The inside is a lot more difficult to turn smoothly than the outside is. I figure the main reason for this is you can't see the profile taking shape the way you can on the outside of the bowl, so you have to compensate in several ways. Getting that smooth even cut is not easy. I think this is the main reason I would suggest to beginners, well, any one who is having problems on the inside, to practice when turning out the inside by starting in the center and making the cuts in the general shape of what you want the inside of your bowl to look like. Each stock removal cut makes that inside form a bit bigger. I do like the one hand push cut for the insides of the bowl as well. The idea here is that your handle hand does all the work, and your other hand just rests on the tool shaft, not on the tool rest. You do need the second hand to make the entry cut on the rim... This makes you rely on the bevel rub to make the cut and not using both hands to push the cut through. Going down the wall is fairly simple, Going through the transition and across the bottom is more difficult. You change your body movement. Going down the wall is more of a push and body moves from back to front. Going through the transition is a pivot/rotation of your body to match the curve. Going across the bottom is a push, with no pivot... If I don't turn for a week or so, I get really rusty. So, to clean things up, I cheat.... Most of the time I can get the results I want by using a ) nose shear scraper with handle held low so I can't get on the high side and get a big catch, just like using the skew... I am starting to rely on NRSs more. I do find them more useful for across the bottom, and in the transition, and the shear scrape is more difficult on the bottom. 10,000 more times!!!

Hmm, maybe I need to do a video on this part. I do cover 'getting the ripples out' of the bottom of the bowl...

robo hippy

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Consistency comes with practice. You are gettting good results when you make good cuts..
When you don’t an inconsistency lets your technique fall short of your best.

I do the inside turning much the same way I learned from Liam o’neil and David Ellsworth with one element I got from Jimmy clewes.

Shape is a big help or hindrance. For me a hemispherical bowl is easy to hollow. A bowl deeper than wide is difficult. I almost never do a bowl deeper than wide. Hollowing a green bowl is easier than truing and hollowing a dried bowl.

Preventing bumps involves making clean cuts with no tearout, avoiding bevel drag, letting the bevelmfloat over the surface.

When returning a dry bowl - it is important to take light cuts to turn the inside round. The light cuts reduce tearout.
Tearout makes a bumpy surface. The cut is a curve from rim to bottom center riding the bevel. Grinding the heel off the tool makes it work more smoothly.

Bevel drag causes vibration that can make some bumps. Shorter bevel has less drag(grind off the heel) let the bevel float over the cut surface. I finish the first inch or two below the rim with a 1/4” gouge. Short bevel,cut really cleanly. But 2” below the rim is its limit.

Comming off the bevel deep in the bowl creates a washboard surface of bumps. As you come off the bevel the gouge follows the bevel cutting deeper. The brain correct this and then the gouge cuts deeper. The result is this up and down surface. When the bevel rides continuously you don't Get the bumps.

The advanced flute up shear cut has a very short bevel contact and a light bevel pressure, and a high shear angle-all the ingredients for a smooth surface.

I feel the inside with my hand for bumps. If there is one I want to cut the bump not cut over the area following the bump. I get the bevel on the wood not cutting and move up to the bump and cut lightly through the bump.

This is how I do it. Fast forward to 17:30 for the hollowing

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCZWsHB4vlM

That is most likely what is happening with me. I had a gouge with the heel ground off but I changed the grind on it a while back. I’ve been trying Ellsworth inside bowl finishing cut with flute facing up and cutting with left side of the gouge I’m not getting consistent results with it depending on the shape of the bowl.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

It's going to be a challenge to explain this in terms that are understood in depth......but, the interior of bowls, and especially bowl interiors that merge into inward slanting, or undercut rims, are, by far, the most difficult things to gain perfection. This is an acquired skill, and the only way to be successful, consistently, is by doing it over and over again.....by repetition. The word "repetition" has a two-fold meaning......in that a bowl turner must do many bowls.....and.....must learn to do light cuts through an arc repeatedly AND consistently.......not just a few times, but dozens of times with repeatable accuracy.

There are probably many gouge styles and scraper shapes that are capable of this......because they all have a cutting edge. If that cutting edge is presented well, it will cut well. If that cutting edge moves through an arc well, and with repeatable accuracy, the resulting surface will be fine tuned to the desired result.

The same rules for the outside of bowls, apply to the inside of bowls......in that the least amount of sanding is the ultimate goal. Learning to use your tool grinds and shapes is good......but, if you don't have a good handle on how to sharpen, and keep an edge sharp......good results might be possible......but, the best possible results won't.

Hind sight is the best way to have a complete understanding of these things.......and, the ONLY way to have hind sight, is to do these things repeatedly to a successful conclusion. Then, and only then, will a complete understanding be realized.

-----odie-----

I don’t turn as often as I like, and that is a problem. I haven’t turned in 3 weeks due to weather and other factors for example, and I feel that I am forgetting a step or two every time I go back.

I’m very happy with my outside technique, design is separate topic but technique wise, I’m feeling much more in control and time to get the inside technique nailed down.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I do a number of things often depending on the quality of wood and how it cuts. My normal cut is a push cut with a Thompson 1/2" V bowl gouge. The flute is somewhere around 45 degrees but I vary it slightly depending on the shape of the bowl, where I'm at, and how the wood is cutting. If my bowl is more open I use a Henry Taylor U shaped gouge with a Stewart Batty 40/40 grind except mine is 45/45 or somewhat less and do the same push cut. If I have trouble getting a clean cut sometimes I will use that 40/40 grind with the flute up and cutting with the left wing. If that doesn't do the trick or I can't use that cut I go to my Hunter Osprey or Hunter Hercules and do a push cut with that. That usually works but if it doesn't I stop the lathe and work on the bad areas with a round cabinet scraper. If all else fails I work on those bad areas with my drill and sanding discs with the lathe off. Once I get the bad areas under control I can just work through the sanding discs.
I did grind a homemade bowl gouge with a U flute and left the wings almost vertical. I do a push cut with that with the flute up. It's a really clean cut but just doesn't work for me on some of my shapes and I made it out of Carbon Steel so it doesn't hold an edge long.

I’ve been thinking of trying the 40/40 grind. I’m also going to get a 1/2” U bottom feeder gouge. I’m going to try and grind the heel first and see if that is the issue.

I did have a problem transitioning from the sides to the bottom, and almost blew the bowl up. The ripples were at the bottom of this bowl

 

[john lucas]

I forgot the most important things. sharpen, sharpen, sharpen, and don't force the cut, let the tool do the work. If you aren't getting curls it's not sharp enough.
also watch how the wood crosses the cutting edge. If it's crossing it perpendicular to the edge you are getting the worst cut you can. Ideally the fibers should be sliced so the wood should be crossing the edge at a shear angle. The steeper the better. Imagine a large flat spindle gouge with the flute at 3 oclock and your on the inside of a bowl. the wood crosses the edge at a very acute angle. That is somewhat what is happening when you have a 40/40 gouge in a push cut with the flute at 3 oclock. Well actually 2:55. At 3 oclock it probably won't cut.

 

[hockenbery]

ripples were at the bottom of this bowl

Ripples on the bottom are usually from not riding the bevel and cutting with the nose.
If it is a open bowl grinding the heel off can help. It shortens the bevel making it easier to ride the bevel.
Using the flute up shear will usually work too.
Slow down the cut, light cuts , light grip on the tool.

The bowl in the picture looks nice! The curved wall and nearly flat bottom both present challenges.

Depending on how the bottom curves away you may not be able to ride the bevel with the Ellsworth. The bottom feeder may do the trick letting you ride the bevel. I can’t tell for sure from the photo but I think the Ellsworth with the heel ground off can make the turn to the bottom with the bevel riding. It will be close to the limit for the Ellsworth.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

When a reporter asked Bill Jones how did he get so good at the lathe he said: "why? you just stand in front of it!" You have gotten some really good advice here. Keep practicing and it will come... Aloha

 

[hockenbery]

Which gouge will work on a particular inside shape ?
Joe Lareses article does a good job explaining this
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodturner.org/resource/resmgr/fundamentals/guidetogouges.pdf

Below are two illustrations from the article. The nose angle shown for the Glaser gouge at about 45 degrees make it the least able to hollow deeply. With a shallow angle it would be the best tool for undercutting a rim.
An 80 degree bevel tool can work a deeper bowl and tighter curve than any of those shown.



Below shows the tool angles and clearance from the rim for bevel riding push cuts

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Thanks Al, that is the wrong link to the article btw.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks Al, that is the wrong link to the article btw.

https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodturner.org/resource/resmgr/fundamentals/guidetogouges.pdf

This should work better.. I fixed it above

 

[john lucas]

Great article. To bad it doesn't include the Hunter tools as a comparison also. I guess I'll have to write one up showing how I use the #4 or #5 as bottom feeders to get through those difficult areas on steep bowls.

 

[Dean Center]

That is most likely what is happening with me. I had a gouge with the heel ground off but I changed the grind on it a while back. I’ve been trying Ellsworth inside bowl finishing cut with flute facing up and cutting with left side of the gouge I’m not getting consistent results with it depending on the shape of the bowl.

Fadi,
I started trying the Ellsworth inside finishing cut you describe about 5 years ago and have had exactly the same experience. Over the last 6 months, I've finally been getting pretty good results. Partly, I think it's due to taking thinner cuts with a lighter touch, and partly I'm afraid it's just cumulative experience. In your case, you're turning only on the week-ends, and I suspect your muscles are losing a little of what you learned due to inaction during the week. So it goes.

All the problems you've expressed in forum posts are precisely what all of us have encountered. You're doing a great job of paying attention and analyzing why things may be happening, so as has been said, for you it's only a matter of time and repetition. You're doing great. Just do more of it.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

It's going to be a challenge to explain this in terms that are understood in depth......but, the interior of bowls, and especially bowl interiors that merge into inward slanting, or undercut rims, are, by far, the most difficult things to gain perfection. This is an acquired skill, and the only way to be successful, consistently, is by doing it over and over again.....by repetition. The word "repetition" has a two-fold meaning......in that a bowl turner must do many bowls.....and.....must learn to do light cuts through an arc repeatedly AND consistently.......not just a few times, but dozens of times with repeatable accuracy.

There are probably many gouge styles and scraper shapes that are capable of this......because they all have a cutting edge. If that cutting edge is presented well, it will cut well. If that cutting edge moves through an arc well, and with repeatable accuracy, the resulting surface will be fine tuned to the desired result.

The same rules for the outside of bowls, apply to the inside of bowls......in that the least amount of sanding is the ultimate goal. Learning to use your tool grinds and shapes is good......but, if you don't have a good handle on how to sharpen, and keep an edge sharp......good results might be possible......but, the best possible results won't.

Hind sight is the best way to have a complete understanding of these things.......and, the ONLY way to have hind sight, is to do these things repeatedly to a successful conclusion. Then, and only then, will a complete understanding be realized.

-----odie-----

Almost sounds like the second coming! Haha.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Fadi,
I started trying the Ellsworth inside finishing cut you describe about 5 years ago and have had exactly the same experience. Over the last 6 months, I've finally been getting pretty good results. Partly, I think it's due to taking thinner cuts with a lighter touch, and partly I'm afraid it's just cumulative experience. In your case, you're turning only on the week-ends, and I suspect your muscles are losing a little of what you learned due to inaction during the week. So it goes.

All the problems you've expressed in forum posts are precisely what all of us have encountered. You're doing a great job of paying attention and analyzing why things may be happening, so as has been said, for you it's only a matter of time and repetition. You're doing great. Just do more of it.

I totally agree and realize that I forgot few details every time I get in the shop. I know I will eventually get pretty good at it, I’m never happy with just OK. It just takes longer time for things to become second nature.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Might be good therapy for every wood turner to spend one day a year in a pottery shop making a bowl out of soft clay.
Letting your fingers glide over that wet clay developing into the shape you guide it towards while wetting it with water.
No wood dust, wood chips, catches, tool sharpening, dust mask, face mask, exhaust fan noise, just wet clay.

 

[RichColvin]

Which gouge will work on a particular inside shape ?
View attachment 25464

Al,

How do you know how far back to grind the different shaped grinds ? Is there a general guidance ?

Kind regards,
Rich

 

[hockenbery]

Al,

How do you know how far back to grind the different shaped grinds ? Is there a general guidance ?

Kind regards,
Rich

Good question. Each grind is defined somewhere. In practice they get modified by the user.

Below is the Ellsworth grind info sheet and a photo of my gouge with the Ellsworth grind.
My wing is an inch long. The Ellsworth wing should be 3/4” long.

What is really important to me is the front edge of the wing. The sweet spot. This is where is do a a lot of cutting.
I want the roundness of the point to define the curve at the front edge of the wing.
I do a lot of pull cuts so the slightly longer wing works a little better for me.

I don’t have specs for other grinds.
Liam O’neil Had a really long wing 1.5”-2”
3/4” wing is a little easier for someone new to the grind to master.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

When Guilio stayed with me a few days, I got a new perspective on angles on tools... I used to be really picky, often re grinding my profiles to perfection, as long as they are close enough, I leave them now. Only the point tool i'm picky about the exact 120 degrees....

 

[hockenbery]

Only the point tool i'm picky about the exact 120 degrees....

To me eyeball works on the point tool.
I consider this tool a negative rake scraper. So I grind the top first then the sides.
This puts a burr on each cutting edge.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

To me eyeball works on the point tool.
I consider this tool a negative rake scraper. So I grind the top first then the sides.
This puts a burr on each cutting edge.

Because is such a short tool, if I'm not careful points gets blunt, not only it looks odd, you have less cutting edge, I use it a lot in box making, and I do little decorations on the bottom of bowls, need to be super sharp for Koa or I get fuzzy edges... Tool looks beautiful at 120, IMHO....

 

[hockenbery]

Because is such a short tool, if I'm not careful points gets blunt, not only it looks odd, you have less cutting edge, I use it a lot in box making, and I do little decorations on the bottom of bowls, need to be super sharp for Koa or I get fuzzy edges... Tool looks beautiful at 120, IMHO....

I agree but mine might be 119 or 122 . I get close.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I agree but mine might be 119 or 122 . I get close.

Well, a few degrees either way, is good enough, LOL

 

[robo hippy]

Okay, what 'point tool' are you talking about? Triangle type tool? Spear point scraper???

robo hippy

 

[odie]

Okay, what 'point tool' are you talking about? Triangle type tool? Spear point scraper???

robo hippy

I'm guessing we're discussing the spear point scraper, Robo.

I'm also guessing that Emiliano is measuring this the long way around the angle, rather than within the interior of the angle. I seldom measure the angles at all anymore.....with the exception of conveying angles to another turner. Like Al, I eyeball all of my angles.....because perfection isn't necessary here.....now, being able to apply the human element to the tool usage......now, THAT is important!

My comment about this, is the angle of the spear point scraper tip will become more acute as the required depth of the cut increases. What determines that, is the amount of run-out around the circumference of the work-piece. If the amount of runout is less than .010", the angle can be more obtuse. As the runout increases, the depth of the cut is necessarily deeper, and the angle of the tip will necessarily decrease. (Visualized from the interior of the angle.)

If the amount of runout exceeds around .025", I don't bother to cut grooves with the spear point scraper......because it will never look right to the observer. This is one of the main reasons why a minimum of sanding is crucial to the details.* Learn to use the tool you have, rather than fretting over minor details of it's grind. The closer you get to no sanding required at all, the better your details will look to the observer......and, it makes absolutely no difference if that observer knows a darn thing about turning!

* (The more sanding that is required = more runout on the finished surface.)

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

The point tool is a round tool ground with 3 faces that meet at a point. ( triangle point tool)
Spear point is a flat scraper ground to a spear point.
Point tool is useful in making grooves, beads, getting into any tight corner.
I grind the top, right and left faces in that order so that there is a burr on each side of the top face.
Then use it with the top up.
The tool shown was a gift from Jame McClure.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The point tool is a round tool ground with 3 faces that meet at a point. ( triangle point tool)
Spear point is a flat scraper ground to a spear point.
Point tool is useful in making grooves, beads, getting into any tight corner.
I grind the top, right and left faces in that order so that there is a burr on each side of the top face.
Then use it with the top up.
The tool shown was a gift from Jame McClure.
View attachment 25562 View attachment 25563

The one that you have pictured is what I call a pyramid tool. I have a tool that was made by Joe Ruminski pictured below that I call my point tool, but that is just one version. I like Joe's design because it is really sharp and behaves a lot like a cutting tool.

 

[hockenbery]

The one that you have pictured is what I call a pyramid tool. I have a tool that was made by Joe Ruminski pictured below that I call my point tool, but that is just one version. I like Joe's design because it is really sharp and behaves a lot like a cutting tool.

Henry Taylor calls theirs a pyramid point tool and it is a cutting tool too.

The Henry Taylor® M2 HSS Pyramid Point Tool features a three-sided pyramid design that is excellent for turning beads and spheres as well as a variety of different functions. The Pyramid Point Tool is not a scraping tool but is used for shearing or planing surfaces in the same way that a skew isused. However, the Pyramid Point Tool is more forgiving and doesn't produce the catches of a skew

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

@hockenbery is right, I'm talking about one of my favorite tools, the triangle point tool. Bill Jones originally made his out of triangle files. Because he, and I, use them mostly with the arm rest, or really close to the tool rest when making a bead on the bottom of a bowl, there is little danger of snapping one. I never used one file, just adding that for historical reference. Bill was delighted when he found some very inexpensive round steel bars to make some better point tools. I can make the tiniest of beads with it, in box making it has become an essential tool. Not sure I know what it is a Spear Point scraper, I probably have one, LOL, but call it something else. My point tool cuts, you should see the ribbons I can get out of hardwoods like Ebony or Boxwood... When I say 120, I just stick the whole little thing inside the protector, the General brand, available all over stores like Lowe's... @robo hippy You must have one Point tool in your arsenal, right? Aloha

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The point tool is a round tool ground with 3 faces that meet at a point. ( triangle point tool)
Spear point is a flat scraper ground to a spear point.
Point tool is useful in making grooves, beads, getting into any tight corner.
I grind the top, right and left faces in that order so that there is a burr on each side of the top face.
Then use it with the top up.
The tool shown was a gift from Jame McClure.
View attachment 25562 View attachment 25563

Looks a little blunt, for my taste... I will take a picture of mine tomorrow.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I'm guessing we're discussing the spear point scraper, Robo.

I'm also guessing that Emiliano is measuring this the long way around the angle, rather than within the interior of the angle. I seldom measure the angles at all anymore.....with the exception of conveying angles to another turner. Like Al, I eyeball all of my angles.....because perfection isn't necessary here.....now, being able to apply the human element to the tool usage......now, THAT is important!

My comment about this, is the angle of the spear point scraper tip will become more acute as the required depth of the cut increases. What determines that, is the amount of run-out around the circumference of the work-piece. If the amount of runout is less than .010", the angle can be more obtuse. As the runout increases, the depth of the cut is necessarily deeper, and the angle of the tip will necessarily decrease. (Visualized from the interior of the angle.)

If the amount of runout exceeds around .025", I don't bother to cut grooves with the spear point scraper......because it will never look right to the observer. This is one of the main reasons why a minimum of sanding is crucial to the details.* Learn to use the tool you have, rather than fretting over minor details of it's grind. The closer you get to no sanding required at all, the better your details will look to the observer......and, it makes absolutely no difference if that observer knows a darn thing about turning!

* (The more sanding that is required = more runout on the finished surface.)

-----odie-----

I was just recently interviewed for a magazine. I told them my goal in woodturning is to become so good with my tools that I won't have to sand anymore. I said that so far nobody, as far as I know, in the history of woodturning can yet make that claim. I said that maybe if I come back in my next 3 lives as a turner, I might be able to do just that, but not on this lifetime... On some of my boxes, on the endgrain of woods like Boxwood and African Blackwood, I'm almost there, LOL

 

[robo hippy]

I do have one of the pyramid point tools, but pretty much never use it. I seldom turn beads on anything... If I want a groove, like for burning a line, which I also seldom do, I use the skew chisel.

The spear point scraper is a specialized tool. Richard Raffen has or at least had a signature one, so think a scraper with swept back sides coming to a point at the nose. Wings are great for shear scraping the outsides of a bowl or hollow forms. I have several that I modified by leaving the nose square, which can do a good job of plunge cuts in boxes. One can never have too many tools...

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Looks a little blunt, for my taste... I will take a picture of mine tomorrow.

Be interested in seeing your tool edge

I have 2 a 3/16” and a 3/8”. I keep the larger 1 less pointy.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Be interested in seeing your tool edge

I have 2 a 3/16” and a 3/8”. I keep the larger 1 less pointy.



View attachment 25577

The other picture was deceiving, these look ok, mine looks in between these 2. Off to the shop soon... Aloha

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I do have one of the pyramid point tools, but pretty much never use it. I seldom turn beads on anything... If I want a groove, like for burning a line, which I also seldom do, I use the skew chisel.

The spear point scraper is a specialized tool. Richard Raffen has or at least had a signature one, so think a scraper with swept back sides coming to a point at the nose. Wings are great for shear scraping the outsides of a bowl or hollow forms. I have several that I modified by leaving the nose square, which can do a good job of plunge cuts in boxes. One can never have too many tools...

robo hippy

I have the Raffan sheer scraper tool was a mandatory tool to have decades ago, lol. Would love to see how you modified it... I hardly use mine, maybe with a new grind...

 

[odie]

I was just recently interviewed for a magazine. I told them my goal in woodturning is to become so good with my tools that I won't have to sand anymore. I said that so far nobody, as far as I know, in the history of woodturning can yet make that claim. I said that maybe if I come back in my next 3 lives as a turner, I might be able to do just that, but not on this lifetime... On some of my boxes, on the endgrain of woods like Boxwood and African Blackwood, I'm almost there, LOL

Hey, I hear ya, Emiliano.....

There comes a point where tool expertise has diminishing returns. I don't know if you remember, but there was a single time where I was able to finish a surface with 600 grit directly from the tool. This, IMHO, is taking a good thing too far! There is little loss of geometric integrity when you get to start at this high a grit.....that's the good news. The bad news is, although the possibility of taking tool work to this extreme does exist, the practicality of such a feat is less than desirable. In other words, you just have to work too hard, and too long at eliminating sanding, when you set your goals too high. Starting at anything finer than 320 grit turns out to be a losing proposition in the overall scheme of things......or, this is the way it seems to me. I actually seldom have a sand-able surface, able to begin at 320 grit. When I do, that's great, but realistically speaking, I can begin to sand quite often at 240 grit. Even at that, there are ways to increase the efficiency of beginning sanding at 240 grit. You just learn to "see" and respond to the visual input.......after about a thousand times of contemplating the clues you have available to you! (Hind sight again, here! )

My personal rules about sanding aren't generic, either.......specifically because some species of wood are more difficult than others, as well as some grain patterning are more difficult to get a clean cut, or sand, than others........but, I know you already knew that. I'm just putting into words some of the thoughts I've had that are pictures in my mind, and this forum gives me the opportunity to do that. It allows me to focus my thoughts a little more clearly for my own purposes.....that's all.....

-----odie-----