Idea for Home Made Hollowing Tool

[jimbob91577]

I'm sure someone has made their own Home Made hollowing tool(s) - but I have an idea and was wondering if anyone had some pro's/con's to the idea.

I was planning on taking a 1/4 or 5/16 allen wrench, grinding a bevel on the short leg of the wrench, drilling out a 1/4 or 5/16 hole into a 5/8"-3/4"dia x 12" piece of hard steel, and use a set screw to hold the long end of the wrench in the shaft. I could then attach the shaft to a home made tool handle if I wanted.

Does this sound like a decent plan or am I totally off base here?

 

[Dario]

If I were you...start with ENCO's 3/4" double boring bar. It comes with holes that will accomodate 1/4" square bits.

While you are there, get the bits too

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=378-4014&PMPXNO=2889271&PARTPG=INLMK32

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

Good luck!!!

 

[Dario]

BTW, they also sell hand tap if you need them. You can get the screws at Lowes or HomeDepot.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

 

[jimbob91577]

Dario
Have you done the same, or attempted to do the same?

 

[Dario]

I know someone who used it and is really pleased with the result.

I did try it (using stock bars) and drilling holes in the bar is a bear...you need really good drill bits.

I slowed down since LOML told me to buy a set instead (I think I have a gloat here somewhere). I didn't bother to argue and obliged but have some components that I will make into tools eventually.

 

[Ron Sardo]

I'm sure someone has made their own Home Made hollowing tool(s) - but I have an idea and was wondering if anyone had some pro's/con's to the idea.

I was planning on taking a 1/4 or 5/16 allen wrench, grinding a bevel on the short leg of the wrench, drilling out a 1/4 or 5/16 hole into a 5/8"-3/4"dia x 12" piece of hard steel, and use a set screw to hold the long end of the wrench in the shaft. I could then attach the shaft to a home made tool handle if I wanted.

Does this sound like a decent plan or am I totally off base here?

I use 1/8" allen wrenches to hollow out Xmas ornaments through a 5/16" hole in the bulb.

I use a 1/2" metal bar with a set screw to keep the wrench in place. I also turned my own handles and use a copper pipe as a ferrel.

I wish I could say this is my invention.

 

[jimbob91577]

Ron,
So I'm not off base here...Have you tried a larger version for things such as hollow vessels?

 

[CA Savoy]

It will work, but the allen wrench will not hold an edge very long.

CA

 

[Richard Baker]

Jimbob,
Your plan is totally feasible, but suggest you buy the tool bits in various sizes, at about 2.95 a copy. I use 1/2" steel pipe for my tool holders, except for "tiny tool", which is 1/4" pipe. Tool bit can extend straight from end of pipe, or drill and file square holes to hold tool bit cross ways or at an angle. All held in place via drilled, taped holes with allen set screws. My favorite tool is 1/2" square bar stock holder with slot ground in the end. Can set the bit at any angle from almost straight to slightly backward. Bar stock is ground slightly rounded at other end to fit into the usual 1/2" steel pipe (two more set screws), which fits into an ash handle (made from part of handle of broken pruners). This tool does about 75 percent of my hollowing, until I get to the finish cuts. Made my first one of these around 1983 and have been using them ever since. I do have a Sorby bowl gouge and some others now, that I use for convex areas and some interior finish cuts.

Go for it.

 

[Ron Sardo]

Ron,
So I'm not off base here...Have you tried a larger version for things such as hollow vessels?

It would work
There would be a problem with torque since the cutting tip is off center. That's why larger commerical tools have a swan neck. The bigger the wrench the bigger the problem.

 

[Ken Grunke]

I was planning on taking a 1/4 or 5/16 allen wrench, grinding a bevel on the short leg of the wrench, drilling out a 1/4 or 5/16 hole into a 5/8"-3/4"dia x 12" piece of hard steel, and use a set screw to hold the long end of the wrench in the shaft.

jimbob, you have two good ideas here, a lot of turners use allen wrenches for hollowing small projects. And setscrew handles are a great idea also, for holding various kinds of toolbits, shanks, and what-have-you. Mild steel shaft from the hardware store will do fine, it doesn't have to be hardened. I have several of different sizes and lengths, one is 3/4" by 30" long with a 5/16" HSS machinist's tool bit ground to a hook tool--my favorite end-grain hollowing tool. I found some handlebar foam grips at a liquidation store that fit a 3/4" shaft to keep the cold metal from my hands and give a nice grip.

So go ahead and make a setscrew handle, you can use it for different shapes of HSS bits, an Oland tool being a great example. Then try the allen wrench, keep in mind that it's carbon steel not HSS and will lose it's edge if overheated on the grinding wheel.

the double-ended boring bar from Enco is a fabulous idea, also, can't go wrong with the price. I have a 1/2" bar and a setscrew handle to hold it, it takes 3/16" bits. The handle I mentioned above is drilled on the end, with a setscrew on the side.

Good luck, be safe and have fun.

 

[dkulze]

Jimbob, you're doing what most of us do at some point. The commercial hollowing tools out there work fine but are usually relatively easilly duplicated at home with a little effort.

Two suggestions:
The thicker the base stock, the less vibration you'll get. This becomes hugely important once you're about 6" off the tool rest. Also, if you can get solid stock and drill it, you'll be able to flatten one side to help with the torque from the cutting bit

Second, you can get single flute milling bits from pretty much any machine shop supplies outlet. These are usually intended for soft metal milling so they hold edges well on wood. Also, if you grind down old drill bits rather than using the allen key, you'll find they hold an edge much longer. Just dull the cutting edges of the drill on the grinder so it won't tear up your set screw, and make the shank end your cutting end. This is what I use in my Sorby Hollowmaster.

Have fun,
dietrich

 

[jimbob91577]

Detrich,
The beauty of using the allen wrench was that I inheriently had an angled cutting tool. If I used the drill bit, should I modify my design by drilling out a 45 degree hole through the end of the shaft to accomodate the drill bit?

Perhaps I need to rethink my design a little bit - are there advantages/disadvantages to having the cutter at an angle? (like the Ellsworth tools and/or Sorby tools)

Also - where would someone go for some light reading on the creation and use of hook tools? I know that people use them (kengrunke), but unless you know someone with one of these who can show you how it works, you're somewhat in the dark.

Thanks for the help guys...

 

[webturner]

Hook Tools

Make a hook tool:
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/hooktool.shtml
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/hooktool.htm
http://www.alanlacer.com/articles/basic_hook_tool.html
http://www.angelfire.com/va3/tommiesplace.com/index4.html
http://www.mnwoodturners.com/newsletters/September2001.pdf

How to use a hook tool
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/hookuse.shtml

 

[john lucas]

I'll try to send some photos of the ones I make tonight when I get home. I use 3/16" HSS cutters that I buy from enco for 75Cents each. They are too long so I score one corner with a file and then break them at this point. They fit very snugly in a 1/4" hole. You can simply CA glue them in place or you can drill and tap like you suggest.
The downside of drilling an tap is finding a setscrew short enough. Screw that stick up hit things like the tool rest or the hole in the vessel that you are hollowing through. With the CA glue you can heat the bit a little and pull it right out.
A tip from Clay Foster. make your handle so you can remove the bar. That makes it much easier for sharpening. I cut 6 notches in the end of the wood with a bandsaw and used a hose clamp to secure the steel.
Allen wrenches aren't bad if heat treated but then don't hold an edge nearly as long as the HSS cutters.

 

[jimbob91577]

From what it looks like, Hook Tools are only meant to be used in turning end grain blocks/blanks.

What are the effects of trying to turn cross grain using a hook tool?

 

[john lucas]

Jimbob
Here are some tools I've made. The first group are similar to John Jordan tools. Some have set screws and some are glued in. The bottom one was a HSS planer blade that I drilled. That's hard to do and requires a special drill bit. These are 1/2 inch cold roll steel with 3/4 inch adaptors fitted on the end so I can use them in my boring bar handle.
The next shot is how I attach some tools to the handles. This allows me to remove the long handle from the tool to sharpen it.
The next set are my Lyle Jamieson style tools. I find these useful for pieces with large openings. They are a real pain to use in small holes. it can be done but it's tricky inserting and removing the tools. These are 3/4 inch shank and let me reach further into the vessel. I find the half inch tools are good up to about 8" deep. More if you take really light cuts. The 3/4" bars will reach in about 12"

 

[dkulze]

Hook tools work best on end grain but work just fine on side grain too. Figure that they are basically a gouge-on-a-stick and think about cutting uphill on grain and you'll get the picture. Won't give as nice a finish and is more catchy but works fine.

Then there's the concept of curving the hook tool (semi-reversed to normal curve with an end loop) so that you can cut downhill on the grain from the outside inward. It gets wierd but interesting from there.

For short set screws, go to Home Despot and check in their fastener's aisle. There should be a drawer full of them in the drawers and wierd stuff section.

Good luck,
Dietrich

 

[Hugh]

Jimbob,
Listen to John Lucas. The tool bit (either 1/8" sq. for small tools or 3/16" sq. for larger tools) CA glued into a drilled hole. I use drill rod of various diameters and round over the corners of the tool bit to fit into the round hole that I have drilled. When the tool bit wears down - heat it with a torch just a little and the CA glue burns out and you can glue in another tool bit.

I got this idea from David Ellsworth many years ago. Now I make any size tool I want and even some special shaped ones to cut a particular spot.
But the drill rod and the tool bits from Enco (they seem to be the cheapest). Drill rod runs about $1 for 1/4" x 3', $6-7 for 1/2". Tool bits run about $1 for 3/16" when you buy 10 at a time. The tool bits last a long time but it is good to have some extras around.

John - In your pictures you have the rotating tool bit holder on the end of a couple of your tools. Where did you get them? How much? I am looking for a cheap source (I only want about 6).

I think there was a thread about 3 months ago about this sort of thing.
Hugh

 

[john lucas]

Hugh I made my round pieces that hold the tool bits. It was difficult because I only had a small metal lathe without a milling attachment. It was challenging figuring out how to make them. I now have a Smithy lathe/mill/drill so it might be easier to make them. They are copies of the lyle Jamieson bar. I have trouble keeping the bit aligned when I tighten the nut. It want's to rotate. If I make them again I may try to cut some grooves in the bottom so they won't rotate. Of course that means buying an expensive gadget for the lathe, darn, another excues to buy an new tool.

 

[Steve Worcester]

John - In your pictures you have the rotating tool bit holder on the end of a couple of your tools. Where did you get them? How much? I am looking for a cheap source (I only want about 6).
Hugh

You will be better off taking the rotating thing from the middle bar (bottom pic) and putting it on the flat surface of the lower bar. In my "extensive research" I have found the protruding (3/8") bar of the swivel holder as a source of a lot of vibration. Especially way off the tool rest. Think of how a chatter tool works.

The problem is that it only works with larger openings because you have to drop the bar down to keep the cutting edge at center.

 

[CMAturner]

John,
On the top picture you posted of your tools, you said it is 1/2" cold rolled steel. What size are the cutting bits in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tools down from the top?
I am in the planning stages to make a set if mini hollowing tools similar to the Sorby Mini Hollowing set. See here I want to sue them for making hollowed globes out of Christmas tree chunks for ornements. They are 3/16" in diameter, so I wonder if 1/8" bits rounded down a litle for fit would work with 3/16" Oil Hardened Drill rod bent into a swan neck? Would it be stable enough? If it wouldn't be stable enough, I could just use the drill rod and grind the end. But after a while the neck would get shorter than optimum.

Your thoughts?

 

[john lucas]

Steve I made the round pieces using a cheap metal lathe and a jury rigged set up to make it work like a mill. It was a hassle. I know have a mill/drill so it should be a lot easier to make one.
You are 100 percent correct in that the tool with the extended are and cutter is grabby. It was the first one I made and I didn't really understand the problems associated with hanging a cutter way out off the center line of the tool. I still use it occasionally to reach places i can get to with other tools but it's seldom used.

 

[john lucas]

Bob The cutters in the picture are all 3/16 HSS metal cutting bits that I've cut in half. They come about 3" long.
For hollowing ornaments I make my tools out of 1/4" and 5/16" drill rod. I just cut the rod about 6" long. Heat and bend the end if needed. Then I harden and temper the tip and grind it to shape. I have them in 1/4" 5/16" and 3/8". The 5/16" get the most use. The 1/4" starts to vibrate on ornaments that are 1 1/2" deep. The 3/8" is just a little too big. You have to be cautious about inserting it through the 1/2" hole that I hollow thorugh. It's the Goldilocks syndrome, one is too hot, and one is too cold but the 5/16" is just right.
I was going to post a photo of my latest ornament tools but I don't have it on this computer.

 

[john lucas]

Steve at one time I think Lyle Jamieson was selling the tool parts so you might be able to contact him and see if he still is. After playing with these I prefer the fixed cutter and curver tool bars of John Jordan's but that simply works better for the work I do.
If you were hollowing through the Leg or Neck like Lyle does I would probably prefer his because you could change the angle of the cutter as needed.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Steve at one time I think Lyle Jamieson was selling the tool parts so you might be able to contact him and see if he still is. After playing with these I prefer the fixed cutter and curver tool bars of John Jordan's but that simply works better for the work I do.
If you were hollowing through the Leg or Neck like Lyle does I would probably prefer his because you could change the angle of the cutter as needed.

Yep. I was actually making them to resell for a while until I used it enough to determine I didn't like the way it works anyway. I do have some exotic swan necks for captive hollowing to get into recesses that are way out there. I would never use those in a hand held tools though.

 

[Steve Worcester]

...They are 3/16" in diameter, so I wonder if 1/8" bits rounded down a little for fit would work with 3/16" Oil Hardened Drill rod bent into a swan neck? Would it be stable enough?

Since these are hand held tools, if you get too exotic with the bends and too far off the tool rest or tip too far off center, you get catches that twist the tool in your hands. With a 3/16" rod, then inserting a an 1/8" tip, doesn't give you much in the way of shoulder around the bit. Grinding it down does somwwhat solve that problem, but you can't have much exposed toolbit or it is too thin to support the downward force and snaps the bit.

I could just use the drill rod and grind the end. But after a while the neck would get shorter than optimum.

The probelm with just using drill rod is that unless you want to bend and then heat treat, it doesn't hold an edge real well.

Call me and I can help you make them though. I do have a mill and metal lathe, ya know. (And I really like Opus X cigars and dark stout beers)

 

[john lucas]

What I like about drill rod is when the tip gets too short you just heat it up red hot, re-bend the tip the way you want, and then re-heat treat it. It takes me all of 5 minutes if I take my time to do this. If you sharpen carefully it lasts a long time. I still have my first set of homemade hollowing tools.
I start hollowing Christmas ornaments with a bent tool. Once I've gotten the area aroung the hole and the bottom of the ornament hollowed I switch to a straight tool. This way I don't have to shapren the bent one very often so it lasts a long time.
I've made afew tools by silver soldering the HSS tips to the Drill rod but since I'm not turning hundreds of ornaments it doesn't really offer me any real advantages.

 

[dkulze]

Quick help for the torque problem. Use square stock as your base shaft. Drill and round the tip so that you don't scratch up if it touches. Use set screws rather than glueing.

This lets you set an angle for the working tip and have a flat surface to brace against the tool rest to help stop twisting.

There's also using an outrigger.

dietrich

 

[jbburgoon]

What a cool name!

Just reading to learn! Good luck.