I posted this image a while back if it’s of any help.
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Homemade Threading Jig
- Thread starter William Rogers
- Start date
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I've used my threading jigs abd tried climb cuts. I see no difference whatsoever. The reason is the cutters we use not shaped like you show in your photo. They are v shaped.
Yes google can be handy, thanks. Some may not know the difference and the why.
My ebony didn't care when threading, or if it did, it didn't make a fuss. But that's just the way ebony is.
I REALLY love the B&W stuff. No finish needed.
My woodturning prayer: "Grant me the wisdom not to waste my remaining B&W ebony stock. And please send more."
JKJ
The image I posted earlier is only really representative of flat work.
The contact area when cutting a thread on a box is smaller and does not have the same amount of support suggested for climb cutting on flat work.
Unless you feed the box onto the cutter at a high rate of revolutions per minute (neither practical or desirable) I believe the difference between conventional and climb cutting for End Grain boxes is minimal. This must go part way to explain why some of us have seen no difference.
Side Grain Boxes are however another matter.
I think this image displays the difference a bit better.
The contact area when cutting a thread on a box is smaller and does not have the same amount of support suggested for climb cutting on flat work.
Unless you feed the box onto the cutter at a high rate of revolutions per minute (neither practical or desirable) I believe the difference between conventional and climb cutting for End Grain boxes is minimal. This must go part way to explain why some of us have seen no difference.
Side Grain Boxes are however another matter.
I think this image displays the difference a bit better.
Nice diagram. I believe the same.
But, Ha! I might consider someone who fine threads side (face) grain boxes (and expects them to open and close gracefully from now on) an Optimist. Or maybe, a Wizard.
I sometimes use climb cutting on the milling machine for the final pass for a better finish, where that is useful, especially with aluminum and brass. No grain issues!
JKJ
Hmm, I understand climbing cuts on the table saw and with a router, but not on the thread cutters. The teeth come to points, not hooks like a saw blade. I was thinking maybe you meant starting at the top and cutting to the base of the thread, or starting at the bottom and working your way to the top, if that makes sense.
robo hippy
robo hippy
I do the same, sometimes climb milling on my manual mill leaves a better finish, sometimes conventional.
One of my forst* attempts with my homemade jig was a climb cut. I was feeding very slowly, and it was light cut, but I had forgotten to crank up the spindle speed. It was an exciting moment when to tried to pull my turned wood handwheel from my paws. 
A climb cut will make a nice cut, but it has to be controlled. A good example of an uncontrolled climb cut is feeding a board from the wrong side of a table saw.
(* This was a typo, but it works for a first/worst attempt)
A climb cut will make a nice cut, but it has to be controlled. A good example of an uncontrolled climb cut is feeding a board from the wrong side of a table saw.
(* This was a typo, but it works for a first/worst attempt)
Not quit sure I understand your post. When you mention photo do you mean the diagram Bill Alston posted?
The shape of the cutter has nothing to do with whether the cut is climb or not. V tooth or whatever tooth shape has nothing to do with the situation, the direction of feed with respect to direction of cutter rotation is the determining factor.
Are you sure you were climb cutting? That would require starting the thread cut inside the lid and cranking the jig in reverse.
You saw no difference ? There are no guarantees there will be a difference. Do you disagree with the Google responses I posted?
There's another issue wiht using threading jigs. That's whether the cutter is neutral rake or positive. The cutters supplied with the Klein jig were neutral rake, positive would be much better.
In my previous post I talked about neutral and positive rake cutters. Here's a link to a neutral rake cutter from chefware.
chefwarekits.com
The way to tell is imagine a plane from the face of a cutter tooth extending to the cutter center. If the plane passes the through the center it's neutral. If it's positive it'll pass above the center.
Verify what I'm saying by looking at a quality router bit from the cutting end, the plane will not pass through the center. Positive bits are more expensive and make better cuts. Same thing with wood cutting table saw blades (neutral & negative rake are for metals usually).
The issue with threading cutters is none seem to be available in positive rake in the diameter needed except carbide ones that are in hundred$.
EZ Jigs
chefwarekits.com
The way to tell is imagine a plane from the face of a cutter tooth extending to the cutter center. If the plane passes the through the center it's neutral. If it's positive it'll pass above the center.
Verify what I'm saying by looking at a quality router bit from the cutting end, the plane will not pass through the center. Positive bits are more expensive and make better cuts. Same thing with wood cutting table saw blades (neutral & negative rake are for metals usually).
The issue with threading cutters is none seem to be available in positive rake in the diameter needed except carbide ones that are in hundred$.
I don't agree at all. I cut tenons on end grain blanks all the time on the CNC using the tenons for holding in collets. The climb cut tenons are usually much cleaner cuts especially in softer woods.
Those who don't notice much difference may be choosing woods that cut well both ways. Or liberal application of CA glue can make normally poor wood act nice.
Fast forward to 15:30 and In this side grain box video Ronald Kanne says “The cutter and the box are in opposite directions which gives a much better cut”. Timber is London Plane so the finishing cuts are reinforced with cyanoacrylate glue. The cutter used looks like the standard one supplied with the jig which are neutral rake.
As a point of interest, 60° positive rake cutters like this one are commonly available from China. You obviously need a suitable arbor to go with it.
As a point of interest, 60° positive rake cutters like this one are commonly available from China. You obviously need a suitable arbor to go with it.
From what I’ve seen, it’s not uncommon for the male thread to be cut in the opposite direction to the female thread. You don’t have to do it this way but I feel it’s a little easier. This is another example.
I don’t know the source of the statements above, but regarding climb cutting, this part isn’t correct:
Tim
Tim
On the other end of the threading spectrum, here’s a view of my set-up cutting a 2tpi thread. Bois D’Arc wasn’t a good choice since it’s so brittle. I could have flipped the die grinder around to climb, which would have helped prevent some of the chipping.
View: https://youtu.be/ab173hf02DY
Tim
Tim
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I've done some 0.7mm pitch threads in Bradford Pear that looked quite nice (climb), but wouldn't really be useful for anything.
Internal 1.8mm threads (conventional) in apple were never as nice. CA certainly helped.
Internal 1.8mm threads (conventional) in apple were never as nice. CA certainly helped.
Yeah, I have to agree with you on that part of the Google response. But, anyway the consensus opinion seems to be climb cutting is better.
Do you climb cut on your ellipse machine?
While we're talking about cutting clean threads... I once used a 90 degree cutter instead of 60 degree. It give a stronger thread form with less tendency to chip the crests off. No law says turners you have to use 60 degree.
I primarily climb-cut on my ellipse machine. Occasionally I’ll cut conventionally on light finishing passes.
The cutter being used in the threading video is a 90 degree profile with a radiused root.
Tim
The cutter being used in the threading video is a 90 degree profile with a radiused root.
Tim
This is a 2.5"-2 thread standard 60 degree in hard maple done in 1989 on a 12" Delta lathe. The lead screw at 4 TPI Acme thread was mounted in 2" height blocks and linked to the head stock spindle via chain and sprockets with a 2 to 1 ratio. The router drove a 60 Degree cutter ithe the tip blunted to produce about a 1/16" flat to cut the male thread. The female thread was cut on the axis of the bed with a side cut as is done with all of the current jigs. The reason I set up to cut the thread was a request to make a bench screw, but the customer decided to use a steel screw instead, so I made this lamp.
This is my current setup using a metal lathe with a wide range of pitches down to 4TPI. This is a climb cut on a finial lid similar to the lid on the urn in my avatar. The climb cut as I am using it is completely controlled at a steady rate of feed and with the chasing dial the feed can be disengaged and re engaged as often as needed to finesse the fit. The only thing done different than cutting threads in metal is the router mounted to the top slide. I have an adapter to mount the woodturning chuck on the metal lathe since the normal wood turning is done better on the wood lathe.
Nice thread. Damn seasonal movement.
Tim
Tim
Where did you find the adapter? (did you make it?)
Several times I’ve wished I had one.
JKJ
I made my adapter (and speed reducer)…a fairly easy thing to do.
Tim
Tim
My 1950's vintage LaBlond lathe came with a set of 4C collets, the set included 2 dead centers and since the only use for them is if needed for driving a piece of stock with a lathe dog. I sacrificed one of them to make my adapter to do that I cut the point off press fit a piece of steel on there and proceeded to machine the 1.25 - 8 male thread.
The photos illustrate how I accomplished it but it is obvious that you could not do it the same way. The most practical method for you is probably to make an adapter similar to the ones available to convert the 1.25" - 8 to 1" - 8, but that all depends on how your accessories like chucks or faceplates attach to your metal lathe.
Thanks for the ideas. I've only removed the 3-jaw chuck once in the last half-dozen years so I'll examine the options. Having that capability would have made it unnecessary turn down some steel chuck jaws on the wood lathe with hand tools - it worked fine but was not the most favorite thing I've ever done!
JKJ
The seasonal movement is why the coarse pitches, generally no finer than 10TPI, should be used along with greater tolerance so that the thread will not bind due to radial expansion during the summer heat and humidity.
The adapter does work great for that some of the jobs that I used it for was to remove the bird beak on the outside of the profile jaws on my OneWay chuck jaws. Note when doing that I installed the wood worm screw, which turned out to be the proper spacing for machining the perfect circle.
I built this item to quickly align a Hope threading jig. There is a flat plate on the Hope jig that the wood aligner butts up to. 2 screws in bottom board help make a good fit in lathe ways. Simply loosen the jig on the post and slide the wood aligner up to back, align and tighten the post lock. Ignore the level and wood dowel - used early on to make sure the face of the wood aligner was correctly perpendicular to bed ways.
Wishing you good luck on building your own jig. You certainly are getting lots of good help here.
Wishing you good luck on building your own jig. You certainly are getting lots of good help here.
OK I should have known better even back then to not make the base and the shelf the way that I did. The maple used was purchased from a hardwood dealer in Minneapolis and was likely kiln dried so if you ask a kiln operator what the wood was dried to they will tell only what it was on leaving the kiln.
The shrinkage rates for sugar maple is 9.9% tangential and 4.8% radial, that is from green to oven dry. The wood will always try to reach equilibrium with it's environment and that is what you get when you don't allow for that seasonal change.