• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Peter Jacobson for "Red Winged Burl Bowl" being selected as Turning of the Week for April 29, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

health question

Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
5
Likes
0
Last week I had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in my chest and was told to stay at least an arms length away from any heavy duty electric moters.
I have 2 lathes, a JET Mini (which I will modify ) and a DELTA 16-42 which has the motor on the left side of the gear box. Has anyone else had this same problem, if so what changes did you have to make. Doug Nesbitt
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
328
Likes
2
Location
Sierra Foothills
Although not in the medical field, I did spend three decades in emergency services and saw quite a few nice people end up in a morgue for not having taken their physician's medical advice seriously. All I know about cardiac defibrillator patients avoiding electric motors is what I've read:

www.springerlink.com/index/P32306586H5W2222.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/implantable-cardioverter-defibrillator/HB00083

http://www.guidant.com/patient/living/

But I'd sure take it seriously.

I might even look into having a lathe custom made to meet the requirements for clearance between myself and things that could put a permanent end to my wood turning activities.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
882
Likes
2
Location
Wimberley, Texas
Hasn't someone developed a wearable vest that provides additional EMI shielding? Such an obvious idea that surely it has been done, or is not technically feasible.
 
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
118
Likes
10
Since the recommendation is to stay only an arm's length away, I assume that three or four feet should be more than OK.

If that is the case, you might mount the motor a ways away from the lathe with a long belt or a two shorter belts and a jack-shaft. If you want to be extra careful, my electrical engineer friend suggests you can shield the motor with a sheet metal cover. By adding a capacitor between the motor ground and the case, you can absorb much of the EMC noise. Whatever that means! You might consult a real electrical expert on that. If your lathe runs off an inverter that can be a major source of EMC noise also.

It may not be as convenient as all things modern, but it's better than going crazy. Considering that in the old days all manner of shop machines were driven by overhead line shafts (coupled to steam engines, electric motors or hydraulic turbines). There is no mechanical reason why you can’t drive a new lathe with a long belt.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
149
Likes
0
Location
Hanover, MD
Doug,

I had an ICD (Implantable Cardioverter Defibullator) implanted three years ago. Another member of our club has had one for eight years.

When I first had the device implanted, I talked extensively with my cardiologist and electro-physiologist. The bottom line was that it all depends on the electromagnetic field around the motor.

I can tell you that neither my friend and I have made modifications to our lathes or other woodworking tools and have had no problems with our devices. Mine is checked every 90 days (it's all part of the treatment) and there have been no problems from the lathes.

Remember that a few years ago, those with pacemakes had to stay FAR away from microwave ovens.

Talk with your cardiologist, visit the website of you device manufacturer, but DO whatever makes you comfortable at the lathe.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
5
Likes
0
Thank you all for the very good information about my ICD , I will certainly take all the information to heart ( a pun ? ) Doug Nesbitt Brevard NC
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
284
Likes
1
Location
Ballard (Seattle) WA and Volcano, Hawaii....on top
Doug,

Just a thought. The manufacturer should be able to tell you what frequencies you need to be aware of, and what strength signal you need to stay under. A good radio shop should have the equipment to test for that frequency range and check out your lathe to see if there is an issue, perhaps suggest some simple shielding that would protect you without making expensive or complicated modifications to your lathe, and additionaly they should be able to test your remedy to make sure it is doing the job. Might save you some putzing around and give you some additional peace of mind.

Hope the operation went smoothly and you are feeling GREAT!

Dave
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,902
Likes
5,190
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
I would certainly take everything that the doctor says seriously. One of the sources referenced above gives a distance of two feet from things that could generate strong electromagnetic interference (EMI). Your doctor is not an engineer and not in a position to make a technical call. Hardly any motor vendors publish any quantitative data on interference levels to ICD's unless it would be a motor that directly pertains to use in medical equipment. I doubt that any of them would be willing to assume any additional liability by saying that it is OK to use them in close proximity to an ICD.

The question about shielding was brought up by Richard. The only practical method of shielding needs to be done at the source and without having access to lab equipment to measure actual field strengths, a jury rigged hookup is just as likely to increase the level of interference as it is to reduce it.

The "bad boy" motors are ones that produce high transient volage spikes which can produce interference to other electronic equipment such as radios. This would include universal motors (the kind that have brushes and are loud) used in routers, shop vacs, drills, hand sanders, dremel tools, biscuit jointers, and in variable speed mini lathes. Probably the worst-of-the-worst offenders that you are likely to encounter are the variable frequency drives used with three-phase motors -- the type that has become popular in the more expensive lathes. A well designed lathe with a variable frequency drive ought to have both line reactors and load reactors installed to reduce EMI, but I have not seen one yet that does (maybe because it might add $100 to the price tag without any obvious benefit to the average turner).

The Johns Hopkins reference mentioned high power things such as arc welders and large motor-generators. The implication is that the typical fractional horsepower induction motor is not the real problem, but that is just an off-the-wall guess and not a guarantee.

My dad had a combination pacemaker/ICD installed about one year ago, so I am sensitive to this issue. During that time he has determined what things he is able to do and so far has not found any problem with motors, cell phones, microwave ovens, and other potential household EMI radiators. My discussion with his cardiologist indicates that modern pacemakers are exceptionally well tolerant of considerably higher levels of EMI than these devices were several years ago.

If I remember things correctly, there will be a period of greatly reduced activity anyway until things are healed and they are certain that the wires are firmly implanted in the heart muscle. My dad cetainly does feel a lot better now that he has the pacemaker installed and I am sure that you will also. Remember and obey the following two rules:


  1. do what the doc says!
  2. when you are not sure what to do, refer to rule 1.
Bill
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
Nobody mentioning the magnetic field. Remember the magnet used to check the asynchronous operation of the pacemaker? Field windings on big motors, even the speaker magnets used to attach your chuck wrench to the lathe can do the same. Long enough might make a difference. I think RFI, with an emphasis on the word Interference may not be exactly where the danger lies. The magnet can switch on or off, not just interfere.

I guess I'd think about motor position and such as being out of the way of the casual lean, and RFI cage the VFD, if equipped, as insurance. Though I had to take the class, I have to admit the first pacemaker I saw on a strip in the field had me going. Wonderful things, but don't neglect those checks, especially the battery. Big problems can come on fast when that fails.

Do you think it's a conspiracy that they brought out those 2.4 GHz phones to replace the 900 MHz, knowing that the magnetrons in microwave ovens work at ~2.4? Bet they've sold a lot of replacements.
 

gdc

Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
6
Likes
0
Location
Valdese, NC
Just thought that I would let you know of something else that most people don't think about. My father in law recently went to a function where they gave him a 2 piece nameplate to wear that was held together with magnets. After about 5 min. he started hearing a beeping noise and couldn't figure out where it was coming from. His wife noticed that it was coming from his chest. He removed the nameplate and all was fine. Could have been a bad situation.

Greg
 
Back
Top