I believe that the traditional grind does everything you want it to do.
We are in profound disagreement that it can do everything the Ellsworth grind can do.
Compared to the Ellsworth grind I find the standard grind :
does not do the flute up shear cut on the Inside of a bowl ( it can on the outside)
does not do a pull cut well if at all
does not do the shear scrape
does not do the scraping
does not do the back cut
does not do the roughing cut well
I find standard grinds to be much more limited in the amount of material they can remove.
a 5/8" bar with an Ellsworth grind can take a 3/4" shaving that is it remove 3/4" of wood from the surface inside or out in a single pass.
Even beginning students can take 1/2" shavings with no effort on the part of the turner.
With a traditional grind on a 5/8 bar most folks are going to get a 1/4" or less of wood removal.
Al
I hear ya, Al.......You are welcome to disagree with my findings. As I've always said in our disagreements.....results are the only thing that count. My results are always available for anyone to see, while you've always declined to do the same.
What I do may be better suited to the standard grind, simply because I am one who depends on less sanding. Less sanding is what allows details to be more aesthetic to the eye.....crisp sharp corners left by better mating surfaces, and less variance in detail grooves throughout the circumference. Sanding, by it's very nature, is what eliminates geometric perfection in bowl turning. There is no way to get around sanding alternately end grain to long grain in bowl turning, and sanding always removes more material on the long grain. Your style is better suited to more sanding.....simple sloping curves with few direction changes, and little, to no details as a direct result of tool handling. In your case, the quality of the surface left directly by the tool, is less important, than it is for my kind of turning.
One of the things I'm finding a great advantage in the standard grind, is the angle of the edge of the cutting surface to the axis line of the tool shaft is more obtuse than with a longer grind made available with the vari-grind jig. This means the cutting edge itself can be placed closer, in relation to the tool rest for many cuts......and are more controllable. The pressure against the tool from the resistance of the cut is more in line with the tool shaft, making the fineness of the cut more accessible under some conditions. It is that fine tuned controlability that results in a finished tool surface that requires less overall sanding.
It's unlikely I'll convince anyone, or even have an audience at all, when I say there are advantages to the simple standard grind......because all those very popular Ellsworth style of grinds are so ingrained into the culture of wood turning these days. You and maybe a few others might remember the list of all the various styles of grinds that was linked to on this forum a few years back......the standard grind didn't even make the list! I was shocked to see that, while it did bring into focus how completely overtaken the culture of woodturning has become with the invent of newer styles of grinds.
I guess I can be thankful that when I first started turning, all the various newer styles of grinds were not in existence at the time. I spend a lot of time in my early education learning what I can do with the original standard grind......and, I do see that as an advantage. Like many others, I fell away from the standard grind in favor of the new grinds. When Ellsworth made his appearance, he took the turning world by storm, and most everyone abandoned their roots in favor of the new. I think you are correct in assuming some turners may prefer these newer style of grinds, as you do, and that's ok by me.....but to completely ignore any advantages the old standard grind had, is ignorant of the kinds of results that are possible in the hands of the old masters.
ko