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Finial or knob?

Betty Scarpino

Betty Scarpino

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Jul 15, 2008
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I have an author who is working on an article on finials, and we are acquiring a few images for a gallery to accompany the article. I've been on the lookout for images, especially from turners whose work may not have been shown in the journal. I noticed a few very nice lidded vessels with: "short finials?" or "knobs?"

For purposes of woodturning, how would you define a finial? How about a knob? Is a knob just a short a finial?

Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
 
Betty,
Finials and icicles as used by woodturners is classier sounding than knobs and it makes a clear distinction as to woodturning being a step above. :D
Bill
 
I would think a finial is for looking at and a knob is for grabbing hold of. I guess if it is for both it should be called a "finial knob", like a "decoration handle". And a nonfunctional knob, that is only supposed to look like it is for grabbing hold of, would be a "false knob".

Makes sense to me so it probably isn't correct ;)
 
Rather than invent something, "classy" though it may sound, why not go with the conventional, definition understandable to the hoi polloi as well as turning insiders? I like Webster's "a crowning ornament or detail (as a decorative knob). "

In Gothic architecture we find something more - " a usually foliated ornament forming an upper extremity..."

The top of the top doesn't have that air of class.
 
Betty Scarpino said:
For purposes of woodturning, how would you define a finial? How about a knob? Is a knob just a short a finial?

Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
Click to expand...

I would use something like-

Knob: functional element of boxes and drawers grasped to open them. Most often wider than tall.
Finial: a decorative element attached to boxes, ornaments, furniture, architectural elements. Has no functional purpose.

Al
 
MichaelMouse said:
Rather than invent something, "classy" though it may sound, why not go with the conventional, definition understandable to the hoi polloi as well as turning insiders? ...
Click to expand...

I favor MM's perspective that the question has already been answered without our need to invent something different.

hockenbery said:
I would use something like-

Knob: functional element of boxes and drawers grasped to open them. Most often wider than tall.
Finial: a decorative element attached to boxes, ornaments, furniture, architectural elements. Has no functional purpose.

Al
Click to expand...

While I think that we generally agree that what Al says is how we perceive the distinction between knobs and finials, I think that we can paint ourselves into a corner by making overly complicated definitions. Finials and knobs do not necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. Likewise, a knob doesn't have to be functional nor is a finial required to be non-functional. There can be ornate knobs as well as plain finials. I made a small finial box in a class that I took from Cindy Drozda. The way that I open it is to grab the "finial" and lift the lid. I suppose that I could call it a knob to get around the problem of finials being non-functional design elements. Even on the typical finial Christmas tree ornament, the finial has a purpose in that it is a major component of the overall design. If you don't think so, then leave it off and see what you are left with.
 
My first attempts at finials were rather crude, and people still used them to pull off box lids. I learned from that to make sure the lids came off easily. I do think of finials as being pointy. Knobs are 'pulls' to me.

robo hippy
 
A finial by all definitions I could find is an "ornamental element" at a "terminus".
A lamp finial is at the top of a lamp but is functional, holding the shade on.
Fan pulls are finials at the end of the chain.

So finials can be functional.
 
i've seen some pretty awful finials as well as some rather gawdy knobs -- some of those were created by me. I've decided, for better or worse, to go with whatever the maker says that it is or was meant to be.
 
Very briefly and not always accurate, Knobs are short and fat, finials are long and skinny. Describes a lot of people I know as well. :)
 
john lucas said:
Very briefly and not always accurate, Knobs are short and fat, finials are long and skinny. Describes a lot of people I know as well. :)
Click to expand...

John, that was my first thought and it describes most of woodturning finials. As you said " not always accurate" especially for architectural finials which may be short and fat.
Balls on flagpoles and newel posts are finials.
A ball is long and fat.... :-)
 
What is the difference between a hat and a cap? a jacket and a coat? :eek:

I think they can both function as the same thing. We all have seen finials that are used to lift a top off of a turning. Who's to say when a knob becomes "fancy" enough to be a finial....?

I guess if I had to answer, it would be, "It is whatever the owner calls it".:cool2:
 
Any body remember 'Sniglets' from SNL? Geezelfluke: That thing on the end of the key for the gas station restrooms.........

robo hippy
 
Seems like my fellow woodturners think similarly. For the purposes of woodturner-speak:

Our perception of finials: they are long and thin and primarily decorative, although can serve a utilitarian purpose.

Knobs are short(er) and dimensionally larger and their look invites the opening of a lid. They convey usefulness.

Technically, a knob is a subset of a finial. And, a finial is a fancy knob.

For this article, the author is primarily interested in discussing the techniques of turning long, thin, spindles. These spindles are finials. So, we'll go with featuring primarily long, thin(er) spindles atop turned objects. I appreciate everyone's input!

Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
 
A lot of the items I create are hollow forms. I design on the lathe in the sense that if I flatten the curve to the hole, then I am likely going to turn a long, thin finial for it. If for some reason I turn a slight curve leading up to the hole.... no finial. I seem to favor artsy stuff over utilitarian items (as far as what I make) and the pieces don't lend themselves to any real use other than to look at and collect dust! On the few items I make for a true utilitarian application (and they are lidded, of course), they would get a short and stubby knob that would be more condusive to repeated use.
 
It should be apparent to most everyone that there is a grey area which overlaps what a finial is, and what a knob is. If there is to be a differentiation, then generally a finial is something of grace, elegance and beauty.......while a knob is generally a utilitarian object.

I have seen knobs that have elegance and beauty, but grace isn't a knob's usual attributes......sometimes, none of the above will apply! Haven't seen very many finials that could be easily identified as being strictly utilitarian, but it might be one of the attributes that could easily apply.

It would be tough to make hard rules about these definitions.

ooc
 
webster's Dictionary:
Finial: a crowning ornament or detail (as a decorative knob)
Knob: : a round handle on a door, drawer, etc.


so there you have it...
A Finial MUST be on TOP of an object (Crowning)
a knob MUST be round and handle-able....not fragile
 
Betty Scarpino said:
And then a knob can be used to help "put a lid on that debate".....
Click to expand...

Good one, Betty! :)

egsiegel said:
webster's Dictionary:
Finial: a crowning ornament or detail (as a decorative knob)
Knob: : a round handle on a door, drawer, etc.


so there you have it...
A Finial MUST be on TOP of an object (Crowning)
a knob MUST be round and handle-able....not fragile
Click to expand...

So now you have presented us with a conundrum. What are we to call the icicle like things that we put on the BOTTOM of Christmas tree ornaments?

And then, what do we call this thing?

ribp115150-prod.jpg
 
Bill Boehme said:
So now you have presented us with a conundrum. What are we to call the icicle like things that we put on the BOTTOM of Christmas tree ornaments?
Click to expand...

They're actually on the top, the hook's on the bottom.
 
I'm a finial guy, I use this finial to lift the lid off all the time though. And even though I'm a finial guy, I definitely work in a man cave. :D Not to throw a bowl gouge in anyone's spokes. LOL
 

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You and Stewart Mortimer. Everyone else uses a knob. :) I use icing. :)
 

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LMAO, I like icing.:D Those are just down right cool. I can see someone trying to sneak a bite and loosing a tooth.:eek::D
 
Finials

Bill, Down under they call their caves studios so they can charge more for their work, and Odie, you suggest finials are graceful. That means you haven't seen mine!
 
john lucas said:
:) I use icing. :)
Click to expand...


John, that begs the question: What's the difference between frosting and icing? I don't ever recall calling that sweet stuff you spread on cupcakes icing. I call it frosting.

Regional? Or is "icing" a man-cave guy thing?

Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
 
Betty Scarpino said:
John, that begs the question: What's the difference between frosting and icing? I don't ever recall calling that sweet stuff you spread on cupcakes icing. I call it frosting.

Regional? Or is "icing" a man-cave guy thing?

Betty Scarpino, Editor, American Woodturner
Click to expand...

I call it edible. :D

I've heard that people from 'up nawth" call it frosting. We call it "icing" here because it is the closest thing to real ice that we'll ever see.
 
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