Face Plate vs Chuck - Questions

[John Redding]

Basic question, but as I start working on end grain hollow vessels curious when to use a face plate versus chuck. Since it’s end grain, I’ve always been told it won’t hold screws well, and yet it seems they are used quite often for the larger vessels. I’ve tended to turn side grain, even in vessels, or segmented, and have been comfortable with chucks in those applications with rare exception. Related questions are how to determine the right size face plate and what size screws to use?

While basic questions, I’ve realized they’re important (at least to me) to be as safe as I can.

Thanks,
John

 

[hockenbery]

For side grain HFs I almost always use a faceplate
Endgrain hollowing I usually use a chuck unless it is taller than about 10”

Screws and faceplates for bigger ones

 

[William Rogers]

Just about the same as Hockenbery. Large side grain I always use a faceplate. For end grain I sometimes use a faceplate or I have the Axminster colossus gripper jaws that are about 5” internal gripping and about 1” deep. Those jaws will hold. So it will depend on what size jaws you have. I don’t remember ever having a problem with screws in a faceplate, I use Spax screws.

 

[John Redding]

Thank you both. I do have a large Nova chuck with the 1” deep jaws (I forget what they call them), so appreciate the information. Regardless of end grain or side, I’ve always started between centers so I can modify orientation, but my largest piece to date has been manageable in that regard. As pieces get larger it has been getting harder to deal with between centers. I’ll work on this and really appreciate the input.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I’ve used chucks and faceplates for similar sized hf’s (some up to ~ 15” dia x 15” deep, smaller dia but ~18” deep), and haven’t found an advantage to faceplates. If the form is > ~ 8” I use jaws that take ~1-1/4” long spigot.

I do follow Lyle Jamieson’s advice concerning cutting the piece down in dia in stages. Leave the base large, finish the top, then work down in steps to get to the bottom, re-doing the tenon once or twice to a smaller size as things come down in size. I always want a tenon left after cutting to use for sanding and finishing, which doesn’t require much size.

 

[Scott Hargrove]

Can I add to the question? I've been turning for about a year. I've wondering what your "rule" is for using a "screw chuck", a chuck, or a faceplate. I'm especially interested in your ideas about the use of a screw chuck. It seems to me like it's pretty limited to light weight and short stock.

 

[Timothy White]

This is advice not (rules).
1). Make sure pilot hole for screw is the proper size. All screws are not the same size.
2). Use tailstock until it has to be removed to true up the bottom of the bowl.
3). Form the spigot or recess.
When tail stock is removed, make your cuts towards the headstock (chuck)
Johannes Mikelsen uses a screw to start his full-size hats some of his blanks are 90+lbs. and 16” in diameter.

 

[John K Jordan]

Scott, I rarely use a face plate these days, except for special things Last time was for a special plywood jig to hold and turn a round embroidery frame, the only way we could figure out how to hold and turn it precisely.



I use both the amazing Glaser screw chucks and recesses to hold larger pieces in a scroll chuck. Large pieces can be supported by the tailstock as well until balanced and reduced in size somewhat. These days I start every face turning with a Glaser - hate to be without one.

To give a idea of how stable holding with a screw can be, I used Frank Penta’s technique to hold a large 8/4 sapele blank with a wormwood screw in four places, one in the center and three others off-axis. Zero problems, even with the off-axis turning.



The first time I used a screw chuck was to hold a walnut blank that just fit on the 16” lathe I used at the time, maybe 6”+ thick, reversed and held with a chuck recess to turn the inside. If turning something much larger, especially if the blank is unbalanced, heavy and wet, I’d consider a faceplate. (Lisi Oland used a huge faceplate to turn bowls 3’ in diameter.) To save on wood, could fasten the faceplate to a securely glued waste block. Also consider turning skill and if prone to violent catches.

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

Can I add to the question? I've been turning for about a year. I've wondering what your "rule" is for using a "screw chuck", a chuck, or a faceplate. I'm especially interested in your ideas about the use of a screw chuck. It seems to me like it's pretty limited to light weight and short stock.

My rule is pretty simple I use screw center on thinner things like platters or two piece seed jar HFs.
The screw squares the thin blank to the lathe as well as making it easy to turn a tenon.
Then the pieces are put in a chuck for turning the other side.

Face plates I use on most face grain hollow forms after they have been rough turned between centers with the spurvdrive set in the future opening or above where it will be for a narrow opening.

Most bowls I start between centers with a spur drive set in the center of the bowls future opening.
I use the Ellsworth grind so I can shape the bowl and tenon between centers.
Then the bowl goes in a chuck for hollowing.

This is just what I do. A lot of other turner do the same or similar.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Scroll chucks are a great invention but I am most comfortable with faceplates for really large or unbalanced loads unless the wood is so weak that it won't hold screws, in which case a glue block plus faceplate may be needed. End grain isn't ideal for screw-holding but longer screws in properly sized pilot holes make up the difference. Using the tailstock or a steady rest can help keep the work in place as well.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Most of what attachment method to use is a lot of personal preference based on personal experience and/or learnings. The are usually several ways to do a given thing. Sometimes the project dictates fewer options. Another aspect is volume - if many items need made a particular method makes more sense. The total process, start to finish, that a person does can dictate attachment methods, such as sand and finish on or off the lathe.

Screw chucks - typically for small items that will have a hole, like a bottle stopper etc.

All of my larger turnings are chainsawed blanks (dont have a large bandsaw), so the blanks need to go between centers for initial shaping ( which also allows for tweaking the blank alignment). Once between centers, I’d just rather form a chuck tenon, or an area for a glue block if blank is thin or too punky for a good hold.

Bowls/hf’s - most of the OD gets shaped between centers, then put in a chuck. The OD then gets fully shaped, using an Ellsworth/Michelson grind with a slicing cut and shear scrape. Work doesn’t always spin without wobble when put in the chuck, that’s why the OD is finished after chuck attachment. Rarely use a recess - I may rechuck a piece several times, or need to round a dry 2 turn, and a tenon is much easier to deal with either case. A recess requires “enough” material to not crack or break the work, whatever the definition of “enough” is.

Face plate - have them, very rarely use them. Rather use long spigot chucks vs screws for long work, or use large jaws for large OD work. Generally will do a glue block held in a chuck vs a faceplate.

 

[Scott Hargrove]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I rarely use the screw chuck. I use a faceplate or a 4 jaw chuck on bowls and vases as soon as I can get a basic round and a perpendicular face. I just feel like they're a sturdier hold. I appreciate all the guidance from experienced turners.

 

[Scott Hargrove]

Scott, I rarely use a face plate these days, except for special things Last time was for a special plywood jig to hold and turn a round embroidery frame, the only way we could figure out how to hold and turn it precisely.

View attachment 74334

I use both the amazing Glaser screw chucks and recesses to hold larger pieces in a scroll chuck. Large pieces can be supported by the tailstock as well until balanced and reduced in size somewhat. These days I start every face turning with a Glaser - hate to be without one.

To give a idea of how stable holding with a screw can be, I used Frank Penta’s technique to hold a large 8/4 sapele blank with a wormwood screw in four places, one in the center and three others off-axis. Zero problems, even with the off-axis turning.

View attachment 74333

The first time I used a screw chuck was to hold a walnut blank that just fit on the 16” lathe I used at the time, maybe 6”+ thick, reversed and held with a chuck recess to turn the inside. If turning something much larger, especially if the blank is unbalanced, heavy and wet, I’d consider a faceplate. (Lisi Oland used a huge faceplate to turn bowls 3’ in diameter.) To save on wood, could fasten the faceplate to a securely glued waste block. Also consider turning skill and if prone to violent catches.

JKJ

I had to look up the Glaser Screw Chuck. I hadn't seen one of those, and I like the screw on attachment to the headstock a LOT more than the one that came with my chuck.
The off center design dish is beautiful. I never would have guessed it was possible with a screw chuck.

 

[John Redding]

Agreed - really appreciate all the input (now that I’m back and caught up). Interestingly, I made a screw chuck based on the Doc Green website when I saw that, but haven’t used it a lot. The Glaser certainly gets a lot of praise, so may have to look at digging into the wallet at some point if I start using the homemade one and it’s not doing the job.

 

[John K Jordan]

Agreed - really appreciate all the input (now that I’m back and caught up). Interestingly, I made a screw chuck based on the Doc Green website when I saw that, but haven’t used it a lot. The Glaser certainly gets a lot of praise, so may have to look at digging into the wallet at some point if I start using the homemade one and it’s not doing the job.

Isn’t Doc Green great! Besides the many articles on his web site, I think his book is worth having on the shelf. (hard to put sticky notes and write in the margins of a web article. )

I’ve tried various methods and they all work but I have to say if someone stole my Glaser screw chucks and I couldn’t get another I’d be tempted to give up turning and take up basket weaving! After I f use one first used one years ago I couldn’t go back.

I have one of the originals that Jerry Glaser made and even found one of his prototypes, used that awhile then sold it. I recently got one for a turner friend (a former student), currently have a partially finished piece in one demonstrating to a new turner, and keep a couple of spares on the shelf just in case. (I may have a problem which needs professional help!)

Things I like about the Glaser:

• the precision-machined and hardened and tempered screw with very sharp threads - no comparison to all the wormwood screws I have and have used.
• the screw size, needing only a 1/4” dia hole, easy to remember!
• the versatile three-way design to for different sizes of work

I think I mentioned this earlier in another thread, but for some years the Glaser was not available since the company that acquired the rights was slow in producing them. I kept my one original locked up in a safe guarded by pair of rabid dobermans. When they finally became available again I immediately got another then for good luck, a spare another. (sometimes loan one out.)

Alan Lacer sells them and usually has them in stock:

Glaser Screw Chuck

No other screw chuck on the market allows such versatility as this chuck. The three different configurations allow for these different base diameters: 1 1/2", 2 1/2" and 31/2". The bases are made with a narrow

stores.alanswoodturningstore.com

(Alan is a great and creative guy - call him for a chat sometime! Contact: alan@alanlacer.com or call 651 307 9059)
His diamond sliipstone is the best I’ve had. Like his videos too.

Disclaimer: I get no kickbacks for recommending Alan’s stuff! (I only recommend things I use and like)

Smoothing the back of a piece mounted a Glaser screw chuck, held in a Best Wood Tools carving/finishing stand. I do almost all of my smoothing and sanding by hand, off the lathe. When this side is smooth, hand sanded to 600 and finish applied, I’ll remove it from the screw chuck and hold by the recess with a scroll chuck to turn the upper side.


The carving/finishing stand is another tool I’d hate to be without. This one is threaded 1.25x8.
It comes with a bench mount I fasted to a block of wood and sometimes use in the bench vise.

https://bestwoodtools.store.turbify.net/arcaandfipow.html

JKJ

 

[Doug Freeman]

@John K Jordan I recently acquired a carving stand just like yours. One of the main reasons for getting it was to bench mount it kinda low so I could do some of the scraping seated. I've been using using it with the middle pivot joint @~90°. I find the joint does not hold very well, requiring a lot of tightening force and it sometimes still slips. What is your experience? Have you modified the stand in any way?

Just now, while typing this, it occurred to me that I need to rotate things 180°, such that downward force will cause the handle screw to tighten vs loosen. Sometimes it takes a while for the switch to "click".

 

[John K Jordan]

What is your experience? Have you modified the stand in any way?

Just now, while typing this, it occurred to me that I need to rotate things 180°, such that downward force will cause the handle screw to tighten vs loosen. Sometimes it takes a while for the switch to "click".

I had the same problem until I figured out what you did. I think that’s in the instructions and I missed it. No problems now.

BTW, I like this one far better than the well known one with a single handle that locks both the rotation and the angle. The second rotation handle makes a lot of things easier! The other design almost needs three hands. Just my opinion…

JKJ

 

[Doug Freeman]

I had the same problem until I figured out what you did. I think that’s in the instructions and I missed it. No problems now.

BTW, I like this one far better than the well known one with a single handle that locks both the rotation and the angle. The second rotation handle makes a lot of things easier! The other design almost needs three hands. Just my opinion…

JKJ

I compared 3 I found. The one with the the single handle fell out immediately due to the issues you describe. I definitely like being able to rotate the chuck separately from moving it positionally.

 

[robo hippy]

I would swear it was from a Richard Raffen video many years ago where I saw him drill a recess in the top of the bowl blank. I have been using that ever since. For my bigger Vicmark chuck, a 2 5/8 diameter forstner bit works perfect, and no the sides do not have to be tapered to match the dove tail. Just one less production step. No screws, no face plate, no leveling the surface, just drill and go. Never had one fly off either. I do drill down a bit deeper than the depth of the jaws, which allows the surface of the bowl to fit flush on the outside part of the chuck jaws. If you have to remount your blank for what ever reason, then it never seems to remount perfectly. I do once turn my bowls, and core anything of any size. The core I remove, and I take the biggest one first, remounts easily.

robo hippy

 

[John Redding]

@John K Jordan Agree with you completely on Doc Green and not sure why I’ve never bought his book (until today - just ordered it). Guess I’ll have to think harder about shaking the cobwebs from the wallet for the Glaser screw chuck.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I use a spur drive on 95% of what I do. I've never used a screw chuck, and faceplate only rarely.

 

[John K Jordan]

@John K Jordan Agree with you completely on Doc Green and not sure why I’ve never bought his book (until today - just ordered it). Guess I’ll have to think harder about shaking the cobwebs from the wallet for the Glaser screw chuck.

Doc is great - he’s helped me several times! He even autographed my copies of his book. (I like to get several copies of my favorite books so I can lend them on a whim.)

As for the Glaser chuck, I’ll make you a deal - if you get one, try it, then decide you don’t like it, I’ll buy it from you and keep it to lend out!

For bowl and similar blanks, I flatten the top, pick the center, then use the drill press to drill a 1/4” hole a tiny bit deeper than the screw extension and tighten it into the wood before I mount to the lathe. It comes with a couple of tommy bars that fit the cone-shaped support ring, and to get the chuck off the lathe spindle!

I may be a little odd - I only turn dry wood for bowls and platters and for more fun, run the blanks through my drum sander to flatten at least the top before mounting. When prepping blanks to donate to our wood auctions, I flatten both the top and bottom so the blanks look good - sell better that way!

JKJ

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I use a screw chuck a lot. I use it to hold a bowl blank. However I almost never use it without the tailstock. Faceplate only for custom jigs, vaccuum chuck, or unusual projects like John mentioned.