Equipment Failure and consequences.

[Glenn Phipps]

When grizzly advertises this as a 16' lathe and I i am unable to load a 12" blank that I prepared round and balanced on a band saw. when I am unable to even load that blank on the lathe because of interference from the tailstock, that is false advertising. The blank had to be cut again to 11.5" to begin to turn it on a lathe that is advertised as 16". That doesn't take into account the 4 breaks of cast parts during operation of this lathe.

 

[Doug Freeman]

When grizzly advertises this as a 16' lathe and I i am unable to load a 12" blank that I prepared round and balanced on a band saw. when I am unable to even load that blank on the lathe because of interference from the tailstock, that is false advertising. The blank had to be cut again to 11.5" to begin to turn it on a lathe that is advertised as 16". That doesn't take into account the 4 breaks of cast parts during operation of this lathe.

Please elaborate on what caused the interference with the tailstock - suspect its the way the casting protrudes under the live center with the quill retracted - yes a poor design but can be worked around.

All lathes have the swing reduced by the banjo height. As long as the spindle center is 8” above the bed the swing is 16”. TS design and clearance over the banjo are things for you to look for in your next lathe.

As for the casting breaks, could well be casting defects - large inclusions and/or cold flow are 2 common occurrences, both traceable to poor mfg process control. Without inspection (easy to see) I can’t say. The molds for this lathe are probably pretty old which exacerbates these types of issues. Casting mfg defect (not design) is the approach to use on Grizzly to get warranty coverage.

 

[hockenbery]

suspect its the way the casting protrudes under the live center with the quill retracted - yes a poor design but can be worked around.

. This is a poor design.

I turn on lots of lathes.
The powermatic requires the quill to be out a long way to to use a short tool rest when reverse turning the bottom of a bowl because the banjo hits the tailstock with the quil at normal extension - quirk in this design doesn’t make it a bad lathe. Quills vibrate less with least least extension.

Using this tailstock I would probably use a Morse taper extender. I use them on occasion when I want to use the tail center or spur drive inside a natural or turned hollow. My Morse taper extension would probably introduce less vibration than extending the quill on this machine.

lathes have the swing reduced by the banjo height. As long as the spindle center is 8” above the bed the swing is 16”. TS design and clearance over the banjo are things for you to look for in your next lathe.

. Oddly limiting factor on this lathe is the tool rest post. But the photos show an offset add on to add more distance.
No mention of the tailstock. But all lathes loose a couple inches of swing to clear the banjo.
The spec from grizzly

 

[Mark Jundanian]

@Glenn Phipps , were you able to get a refund or replacement for this lathe?

 

[hockenbery]

I see you are a Grizzly disciple

You could not be more wrong!

I just added specs on swing from the grizzly site.

I did not see anything in the grizzly specs I posted that would support recommending this lathe to anyone.

I have never considered grizzly as making a machine I would want to use

Bad design = bad machine

So very true! But there are work arounds. Just like work arounds for the powermatic.


Lathes I recommend are

Jet 1221 as a midi
jet 1840 on the low end
ONEWAY and Robust on the upper end.

A ONEWAY disciple - guilty

 

[Tom De Winter]

I would remove the quill and reverse it 180° so that it sticks out the other end.

 

[hockenbery]

I would remove the quill and reverse it 180° so that it sticks out the other end.

I had the thought that the TS is backwards too.
Usually the casting hole is smaller diameter on the Handwheel side
Do you know if is it is possible reverse the quill?

When I look ar the Grizzly parts diagram
My guess is the lead screw - 96v2 has a shoulder that holds it in the casting
and the handwheel holds it from the other side when
Set screw 76v2 locks it on

The quill lock 75v2 could be moved by drilling and taping a hole on the opposite side.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Just gotta point out that reversing the TS won't fix the cracked castings.

 

[Tim Tucker]

You could not be more wrong!

I just added specs on swing from the grizzly site.

I did not see anything in the grizzly specs I posted that would support recommending this lathe to anyone.

I have never considered grizzly as making a machine I would want to use



So very true! But there are work arounds. Just like work arounds for the powermatic.


Lathes I recommend are

Jet 1221 as a midi
jet 1840 on the low end
ONEWAY and Robust on the upper end.

A ONEWAY disciple - guilty

I think Glenn intended that response for Doug Freeman.........

 

[Tom De Winter]

No, I don't know if reversing the spindle is easily possible. And maybe it isn't without modifications that are beyond most of our shops.
And as Mark pointed out the TS isn't the only problem.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

@Glenn Phipps , were you able to get a refund or replacement for this lathe?

I haven't yet ... they have said they were going to void th warranty due to excessive force used by me but Ive appealed to uppe management and they now say they will honor the warranty. They say they want it back to see what might be wrong. I can tell them it's bad casting and bad formula for their cast iron. I hope they will honor their word but I'm not holding my breath.
I just purchased an American Beauty and will have it home tomorrow. Thanks to Tim Tucker I was able to buy it from Robust at SWAT.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

I had the thought that the TS is backwards too.
Usually the casting hole is smaller diameter on the Handwheel side
Do you know if is it is possible reverse the quill?

When I look ar the Grizzly parts diagram
My guess is the lead screw - 96v2 has a shoulder that holds it in the casting
and the handwheel holds it from the other side when
Set screw 76v2 locks it on

The quill lock 75v2 could be moved by drilling and taping a hole on the opposite side.


View attachment 46314

I erroneously commented on your thread meant for Doug. I discussed this fix with Grizzly tech support and they say can't be fixed without redesign which we know would be a simple 180 degree rotation as I believe you suggest but that's all a moot point as I have just purchased an American Beauty, and will deal with Grizzly in the coming days.

 

[hockenbery]

I erroneously commented on your thread meant for Doug. I discussed this fix with Grizzly tech support and they say can't be fixed without redesign which we know would be a simple 180 degree rotation as I believe you suggest but that's all a moot point as I have just purchased an American Beauty, and will deal with Grizzly in the coming days.

You’ll enjoy the AB I’ve turned on several.
Excellent in every way.
I still prefer a ONEWAY with an outboard but could easily live with an AB if I had to.

 

[hockenbery]

one of the biggest benefits of joining a club - experienced members explaining the machine/tool specs and limitations prior to making purchase decisions.

Another great advantage is getting mentorship.
@Glenn Phipps - said in a post that he had some experience turning. He can best evaluate his skill level.

As @Doug Freeman indicated every lathe is what it is.
A cheap lathe has the advantage that it will often stop when mistakes are made.

A severe catch will either stop the lathe or break something- tool, banjo, wood, holding device

When inexperienced turners start with a big well made machine without coaching or classes they are likely to get hurt from big mistakes. While these big machines can be stopped by poor cuts it is more likely that the bad techniques result in breaking breaking the wood or the tool. Flying wood can cause serious injury or death. High end lathes will usually turn off when they sense a catch but this may be after the wood has broken loose.

Newer turners should learn on small pieces. They are not likely to cause death.
A 4x4x6 flying at you can break teeth, cut you, ruin an eye, bruise you, maybe break a bone. Unlikely to be life threatening.
A face shield most likely saves the teeth and eye.

Be safe!

 

[Kevin Jenness]

High end lathes will usually turn off when they sense a catch but this may be after the wood has broken loose.

This is news to me. How does that work?

 

[Doug Freeman]

This is news to me. How does that work?

My Nova Galaxi, and other newer Nova’s with the same drive, have it. Mfr says it uses a vibration sensor. It works, but too well. Used on the least sensitive position it would shut down during cuts that were not dangerous IMO, typically interrupted cuts.

Dont know what is available on other lathes. The vfd’s with feedback know rate of change of rpm and current and could use one or both to cut power

 

[hockenbery]

This is news to me. How does that work?

I don’t know the HOW
Some magic in the electronics than senses resistance.

My mastery of electronics is pretty much limited to The on/off switch.

My ONEWAY has a deceleration switch. The instructions say to switch it to slow deceleration When roughing big uneven blanks to avoid the lathe shutting off.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

I think if you are inexperienced, any piece of equipment, no matter the quality will break. If you overload a machine beyond it's spec's, it probably will break. Knowing the limitations of the machine and staying below the max level of the machine is always a good idea. I'm not saying Glenn did this, but this is my opinion.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Gabriel-
You make a valid point that - in a broad sense - it is possible for anyone to break anything..... But this is a little different because Glenn has posted pictures of his work - that show he is not a complete rookie. As well - the machine in question has a LOT of negative feedback all over the internet. It is a light built machine for the alleged capacity - which BTW....it is not practical for. There is a huge inconsistency in th products from Grizzly. Some of them are good...some are terrible and some are in-between. This is because of their business model and how different pieces are farmed out to different sub-manufacturers. This makes QC extra difficult, and has widely varied success rates with the way it is managed....or not.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I discussed this fix with Grizzly tech support and they say can't be fixed without redesign which we know would be a simple 180 degree rotation as I believe you suggest but that's all a moot point as I have just purchased an American Beauty, and will deal with Grizzly in the coming days.

You will be very happy with your AB. I have enjoyed mine for eleven years so far and am still just as happy as the day that I got it. Dealing with Brent has always been a pleasure.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Gabriel-
You make a valid point that - in a broad sense - it is possible for anyone to break anything..... But this is a little different because Glenn has posted pictures of his work - that show he is not a complete rookie. As well - the machine in question has a LOT of negative feedback all over the internet. It is a light built machine for the alleged capacity - which BTW....it is not practical for. There is a huge inconsistency in th products from Grizzly. Some of them are good...some are terrible and some are in-between. This is because of their business model and how different pieces are farmed out to different sub-manufacturers. This makes QC extra difficult, and has widely varied success rates with the way it is managed....or not.

I have seen Glenn's work. It definitely is really good. And I agree with what you said about Grizzly. I have owned three Grizzly tools, some have been great, others really poor. In the future, buying from a brand with such swings in QC might have to be considered. BTW I turn on a Robust and absolutely love it. I hope you'll enjoy your AB Glenn.

 

[Tom Lucas]

This lathe does not perform to match the specs they put out for it and does not even meet specs. The older machines perform much better than any of their newly made. That's reports from users. There are a lot of complaints on newer Grizzly products.

You really should have known better. Not going to get a full-size lathe with full-size performance in a $1000 lathe. It just isn't realistic. I don't think you'll find many G0766, G0800, or even G0733 users who are dissatisfied with their lathes. I don't expect my $3000 lathe to be the same as a $6000 Powermatic, or a $9000 Robust. However, it is plenty good enough. As with many things, there is a premium, good enough, and borderline junk. Sorry to say, that lathe is a well-known piece of junk. I know you are frustrated and disappointed. You do get what you pay for.

 

[robo hippy]

For lathe choice, if you can afford them, you need to figure out if you want a fixed headstock or a sliding and/or pivoting headstock. For fixed headstocks, I would go with Oneway or Vicmark, and I would give the Vicmark the lead for those. You can turn on the outboard end if you don't like leaning over the bed, but not possible on the Vic. For sliding headstock lathes, my first choice is the AB, which I have. The PM is also excellent. For pivoting headstock, the Vic 240, hands down. Not sure about the Record lathe or the new Harvey lathes.

robo hippy

 

[Glenn Phipps]

You really should have known better. Not going to get a full size lathe with full size performance in a $1000 lathe. It just isn't realistic. I don't think you'll find many G0766, G0800, or even G0733 users who are dissatisfied with their lathes. I don't expect my $3000 lathe to be the same as a $6000 Powermatic, or a $9000 Robust. However, it is plenty good-enough. As with many things there is premium, good-enough, and borderline junk. Sorry to say, that lathe is a well-known piece of junk. I know you are frustrated and disappointed. You do get what you pay for.

Not to worry I just bought an AB.

 

[Tom Lucas]

Not to worry I just bought an AB.

I saw that. Quite a leap from the 462. Congrats. I'm sure you'll be happy with that one. Safe turning.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

I saw that. Quite a leap from the 462. Congrats. I'm sure you'll be happy with that one. Safe turning.

The difference between vinegar and honey. The AB is more like the lathe I started on years ago, probably a step up.

 

[Glenn Phipps]

For lathe choice, if you can afford them, you need to figure out if you want a fixed headstock or a sliding and/or pivoting headstock. For fixed headstocks, I would go with Oneway or Vicmark, and I would give the Vicmark the lead for those. You can turn on the outboard end if you don't like leaning over the bed, but not possible on the Vic. For sliding headstock lathes, my first choice is the AB, which I have. The PM is also excellent. For pivoting headstock, the Vic 240, hands down. Not sure about the Record lathe or the new Harvey lathes.

robo hippy

I bought the Robust display AB at SWAT last weekend and it turns as I remember from years ago.

 

[Steven Eber]

I remember the early Grizzly days, and that is why I don't have any of their tools in my shop. Still don't trust their quality, or lack of quality. Their commercial machines seemed to be much better, but hobby level, not so good. Yes, manufacturing is seldom 100% perfect, but they seem to have a higher % of low quality items.

robo hippy

Harbor Freight, Grizzly and Jet all sell the same lathes. They are all made exactly alike with just different paint and label.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Harbor Freight, Grizzly and Jet all sell the same lathes. They are all made exactly alike with just different paint and label.

Actually, Jet is the "poor cousin" to Powermatic - made by the same company, just Powermatic seems to have more of the Bells and Whistles, and perhaps more robust, more complete. (I'd almost bet you could get a Jet and fit up Powermatic stuff to it..)
Grizzly's "Entry Level" lathe (G06-something I believe) is recognizable to me as the Harbor Freight 12 x 36, however... But their larger machines are far and away much better than their "cheap cousin".

Jet JWL-1840 is the one I hope to get to replace my HF lathe - someday.. Unless I hit the lottery , in which case, I'll just jump up to a Robust AB .. I think you may be thinking of the white painted "Shop Fox" branded lathes, rather than the Jet. (I've seen some Shop Fox offerings, and to me, looks like a Harbor Freight / Central Machinery, but painted white.)

 

[Steven Eber]

Actually, Jet is the "poor cousin" to Powermatic - made by the same company, just Powermatic seems to have more of the Bells and Whistles, and perhaps more robust, more complete. (I'd almost bet you could get a Jet and fit up Powermatic stuff to it..)
Grizzly's "Entry Level" lathe (G06-something I believe) is recognizable to me as the Harbor Freight 12 x 36, however... But their larger machines are far and away much better than their "cheap cousin".

Jet JWL-1840 is the one I hope to get to replace my HF lathe - someday.. Unless I hit the lottery , in which case, I'll just jump up to a Robust AB .. I think you may be thinking of the white painted "Shop Fox" branded lathes, rather than the Jet. (I've seen some Shop Fox offerings, and to me, looks like a Harbor Freight / Central Machinery, but painted white.)

Check out the Jet 1642evs vs Grizzly GO-632Z. They are the exact same lathe but the Jet costs three times as much. You can find the same thing up and down the line. Harbor Freight just doesn't sell the larger versions.

 

[Tom De Winter]

Check out the Jet 1642evs vs Grizzly GO-632Z. They are the exact same lathe but the Jet costs three times as much.

Respectfully, they are not even close to the same.

16" x 42" Variable-Speed Wood Lathe - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>G0632Z 16" x 42" Variable-Speed Wood Lathe</h1> <h2>If you're looking for a lathe that will handle all of your turning needs, this is the one!</h2> <p>The G0632Z 16" x 42" Wood Lathe uses a variable-frequency inverter to control motor speed. The variable-frequency drive runs the 3-phase...

www.grizzly.com

 

[robo hippy]

A friend got one of the Shopfox lathes, and it was so bad, he sent it back.

robo hippy

 

[Steven Eber]

Respectfully, they are not even close to the same.

16" x 42" Variable-Speed Wood Lathe - Grizzly Industrial

<h1>G0632Z 16" x 42" Variable-Speed Wood Lathe</h1> <h2>If you're looking for a lathe that will handle all of your turning needs, this is the one!</h2> <p>The G0632Z 16" x 42" Wood Lathe uses a variable-frequency inverter to control motor speed. The variable-frequency drive runs the 3-phase...

www.grizzly.com

Tell me what is different other than the tailstock. They even use the same VFD. The bed anchor point has been changed, but the older Grizzly I have has the same bedrail as the current Jet. They both weigh in at the same 394 pounds.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Tell me what is different other than the tailstock. They even use the same VFD. The bed anchor point has been changed, but the older Grizzly I have has the same bedrail as the current Jet. They both weigh in at the same 394 pounds.

Those 2 may be similar but trust me those ain't harbor freight equivalents - I have a HF lathe, and I'd consider either of the two above to be a huge upgrade. The Harbor freight 12 x 36 lathe weighs in at I would guess 150 Lbs, if that.

 

[hughie]

You may find the Grizzly is a generic lathe that many suppliers put their name to. I started out with one very similar, I took a few months to sort out many issues and effect various repairs, finally got rid of it when the economy allowed.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Tell me what is different other than the tailstock. They even use the same VFD. The bed anchor point has been changed, but the older Grizzly I have has the same bedrail as the current Jet. They both weigh in at the same 394 pounds

The Jet 1642 that you have pictured is an older model that was discontinued more than four years ago. The current Jet 1640 bears no resemblance to its predecessor.

 

[hockenbery]

Tell me what is different other than the tailstock. They even use the same VFD. The bed anchor point has been changed, but the older Grizzly I have has the same bedrail as the current Jet. They both weigh in at the same 394 pounds.View attachment 48703View attachment 48704

You are looking at the old jet lathe. This one has been the jet 16” for around 5 years
This is the current model



These are the improvements Jet lists
36 integrated indexing positions
Banjo uses non-marring, positive locking wedge system to securely hold tool post
E-drive Inverter features a built in EMI filter
Extended spindle nose houses dual headstock spindle bearings
Improved tailstock quill locking mechanism incorporates an anti-rotation key
Inverter is enclosed for added protection
Spindle lock latch frees up both hands
Tailstock features Acme threads for smooth and durable movement
Tool post locking mechanism designed for year of consistent strength